I'm going to continue with Dogen's Zazengi. Can you turn it up a little bit, please? Sure. How's that? So we got through the first paragraph, and the second sentence, and the third sentence. The editor divided this into sections, so I'll just start with the second section, even though it's a little bit repetitive.

[01:11]

So, when you sit in Zazen, he's talking about, set aside all involvements and let the myriad things rest. I think we got to set aside all involvements, that you should make sure that all of the events in your life, all of the things that you are doing in your ordinary activity are in order so that you can actually practice, do zazen, so that you don't have nagging things at your back that are distracting. As, of course, daily zazen, you know, not so important, but, and sashimi, or if you were to go to the monastery, you make sure that everything, all your chores are in order. And let all the stuff rest, just let go of everything.

[02:17]

So, any zazen is not thinking good and not thinking bad, not visualization. Zazen is not Koan study. Our practice is Koan study, but not in the usual sense. And I'll explain that as we go along. Definitely Koan study do not desire to become a Buddha. That's kind of where we left off. So, you know, in America, we don't think so much about becoming a Buddha.

[03:22]

In the East, that was very, you know... In the West, you think about God. In the East, you think about Buddha, right? So Buddha's not such a... You know, we do this kind of meditation practice, but we don't necessarily think about Buddha. We do, but... I don't think it has the same impact for us. But in the East, or in Buddhism, let's say, becoming a Buddha was a big question for everybody, especially for monks. To practice, to become a Buddha means I actually had practiced to be enlightened, but our practice begins from enlightenment. That's why it's, you know, the emphasis is not the same.

[04:26]

That's why Dogi is always insisting, don't practice to become Buddha, because you missed the mark. So Buddha is synonymous Because enlightenment is what brings you to practice, and your practice begins from enlightenment. But then you say, well, I never experienced enlightenment. I haven't practiced it in a long time. So what's hard is to recognize what enlightenment is. Which doesn't mean that you can go around proclaiming you're enlightened. Seek it. Just practice.

[05:44]

Practice brings forth enlightenment. And enlightenment is our continuous practice. So you don't have to worry about it, or think about it. All you have to worry about is practice. And this is the hard part. The easiest part is to think about it like that. The hard part, oh yeah, practice, that's the whole thing. So it's like, I like to describe it as working in the engine room. I used to read these books about adventures on tramp steamers where they used to shovel coal, and they had coal-driven ships.

[06:45]

These guys, the black gang, was in the hole shoveling coal into these big ships. And it was really difficult. The temperature was really hot. But anyway, that's our practice. Practice is like the black gang down in the hole. Unglorious practice. Unromantic, unglorious practice. Just doing the work. And then there's a saying by Yakusan, which we all know. Enlightenment is like walking in a fog and at some point you reach down and your clothes are wet, but you didn't know you were getting wet. So you don't worry about trying to get enlightenment because you can't avoid it.

[07:54]

Except, as I said yesterday, So, realization means that, oh yeah, I get it. So, don't desire to become a Buddha. Let sitting or lying down drop away. When he says sitting or lying down, there are the four postures of a person. Standing, sitting, lying down, and walking. of the stereotype for postures of a person. This is not what we mean by zazen. When we say sit, it's not the same as just sitting down. So, be moderate in eating and drinking, and be mindful of the passing of time, and engage yourself in zazen as though saving your head from fire.

[09:06]

a fire sermon, which was very well known. Buddhists reported to us that our heads are on fire with desire. And so, you know, we should put the fire out or control the fire. I don't think we need to put the fire out. We should control the fire so that it doesn't burn us up. control or balance, I think, is so much better. How to balance the forces of our life so that they don't destroy us. That's our task in life. So you can see the world is out of control because people are not balancing the forces of their life. And there's so many different forces that we have to contend with.

[10:11]

And then when something becomes overwhelming, we say, well, get rid of it. But we can't get rid of anything. How do you control all these forces is finesse. That's the practice. How do you control all the forces that are present in our life and not cut anything off? So the Suzuki University used to liken it to controlling your kerosene lamp. We used to have these kerosene lamps at Tassajara because we didn't have any electricity. So we were always concerned all the time with our kerosene lamps. Especially when you turn it up too much, the glass gets black. And so you're always trimming the wick so that it burns very nicely in a little arc and produces the most light.

[11:21]

And the air and the kerosene and the lamp and the wick are all balanced. And when you adjust the little knob, it puts out a good amount of light. But when one or two of these factors get out of balance, So that's how we have to deal with our life. We're always adjusting and always balancing. And in zazen, that's what you're doing all the time. There is nothing else to do in zazen except balance all the factors that are getting better, I don't want to say controlling, that are imminent in our life. So you're always controlling, you're always balancing posture with ease and balancing thinking mind, emotional mind, desire mind, so that

[12:31]

you can have a well-balanced experience. So, be mindful of the passing of time. He's talking about transiency, and Dogen always talks about, in order to really understand our life, we need to realize that time is passing. This is also the fire sermon. Don't waste your time because life is short and we should get it together. So, and then he talked about on Mount Huamei, this is an example, the fifth ancestor practiced zazen at the exclusion of all other activities.

[13:51]

Daimon Kounian was the fifth ancestor, and it was said that he never slept, or, I mean, he never lied down to sleep. He always slept. This is not an exaggeration, but I think it's an exaggeration of practice. I think we should lay down and go to sleep, and wake up and start all over again. But you know, Master Hua, from the city of 10,000 Buddhas, the Chinese master, some of you may have known him, I knew him. I practiced a little bit with him. Some of his students would build these boxes, they looked kind of like a sweat box, and they would sit and have seed in the box and a chin rest.

[14:56]

I have a chin rest. It's not a common in Chinese Buddhism. And the chin rest, you kind of hold it in your hand. You doze a little bit and then wake up. So you just don't lie down to sleep. So you're always, apparently you're always practicing. So, but they were in sitting position?

[16:02]

Well, there were just some of the monks who did that. Yes, some of them. It was pretty common. Pretty common. Actually, I have one in my hut, but you always come in and face me, and you don't turn around and face the wall next to it so much. You may have seen it. It's a kind of little board that I was given. Not because I was always falling asleep. So, don't desire to become a Buddha. Let sitting or lying drop away, the four postures. Be moderate in eating and drinking. Be mindful of the passing of time and engage yourself in zazen as though saving your head from fire. On about 1 May, the fifth ancestor practiced Zazen to the exclusion of all other activities.

[17:08]

So, when sitting Zazen, wear your robe. If you're a priest, you wear a priest robe. If you have a raksu, you wear a raksu. When I was practicing with Suzuki Roshi, I never did have lay ordination, I only had priest ordination. But before that, whenever I'd go to Zazen, which was about every day, I wore a sweater, and I wore the same sweater every day. I've always done that, I've always worn the same clothes all the time. So I wore this sweater every day, and then one day he took hold of the sweater and said, That was sweet. So if you don't have a robe, you weren't, what Gino used to say, you weren't, everyone wears the invisible robe. So the cushion should not be placed all the way under your legs.

[18:17]

In other words, when you sit on the cushion, you shouldn't sit all the way back on the cushion, you sit kind of halfway, because Otherwise, it's hard to keep your back straight. The reason for the cushion, basically, is to help you keep your back straight. One of the things that's nice and more comfortable than other seating arrangements. But the main reason why we have this round cushion is so you can keep your back straight. So you should make use of it. should not be placed all the way into the legs, but only into the behind. In this way, the crossed legs rest on the mat, and the backbone is supported with a round cushion. This is the method used by all the Buddha ancestors for zazen. Well, that's a good statement. That may be true. I don't know. I think that not everybody uses a cushion like that, especially in India.

[19:20]

sit either in the half lotus position or in the full lotus position, in my comment, or any other position. When I give zazen instruction, I always tell people to sit in the easiest position. I show them all the positions, full lotus, half lotus, quarter lotus, Burmese, and I see, and cowboy, campfire, which is just, you know, how you sit when you're around a campfire, crossing your ankles. So, and I always say, although these are, you may want to sit in one of these other positions, take the one that is easiest for you, because we sit for 40 minutes. Take the position, even though you may be able to sit in the full lotus for 10 minutes, Don't take that position. Take the position that you can sit in for 40 minutes.

[20:24]

It's the easiest. So start out with the easiest way. And then as you practice over a long period of time, your legs will want to go into a more extreme position. This is my understanding, is that your legs will tell you, I want to go up further. And then, okay, that's when you do that. But you don't force yourself to sit in more extreme positions. So, I always instruct people to take the easiest position that you can maintain for a period of time. So, for the full lotus, put the right foot on the left side and the left foot on the right side. The toes should lie along the thighs, not extending beyond. For the half lotus position, simply put the left foot on the right thigh.

[21:26]

If you sit in a full lotus or the half lotus, often we think that the least extreme version of that is not to hold your legs all the way up, but actually the easiest What's easiest on your body is to pull the legs all the way up, so that they're right up here, rather than down here. You may think that's easier, but it's more tension on your knees. Yes? I've always wondered if it actually matters if your left foot is on your right side or your right foot is on your left side. Keep that in mind. That's it. Go on. It's not whether or not it matters.

[22:32]

It's like, okay, this is the way we do it, so I'll do it that way. Yeah, this is the way we do it, so I'll do it that way. If we had been told the opposite, it's, oh, that's the way we do it, so I'll do it that way. It's not a matter of whether it matters or doesn't matter, but yes, But the right, it's also, the opposite is also okay. There's nothing wrong with doing it the opposite way. That's also okay. Because that's also one of the ways that people have done that. And that's okay.

[23:34]

But if you say, well, either way is okay, In a sense, either way is OK. But we don't do it either way. We only do it this way. Yeah. You look puzzled. Which way is the this way that we do it? In the lotus position, you put your right foot on your left side, your left foot on your right side. And the half load is you put your left foot on your right foot. But you can do it the other way too. The yogis say it's good to spend some time each way so your body stays sort of balanced. That's okay too. But it's not the way we do it. No. But that doesn't mean you can't do it that way. as being able to?

[24:39]

Well, you know, you can do it that way. If you want to do it that way, go ahead. This is the way we're taught how to do it. Right? So, we do it that way. But, our problem is that our self wants to do it our way. Suzuki Roshi never gave an explanation as to why we do anything. He said, this is just the way we do it. I don't know why. He said, why do we do it? I don't know why. It's just the way we do it. He said, well, geez, you know, then you're just, you know, not challenging anything, right? It's not right or wrong. It's hard to get past the idea that it's not right or wrong. If you insist on what's right and what's wrong, then you become a person of right and wrong.

[25:45]

Well, that's okay, isn't it? Well, that's usual. Right and wrong is usual. There's nothing wrong with right and wrong. But in order to get above right and wrong, you have to let go of right and wrong. Which includes right and wrong. Is there any reason to get beyond right and wrong? Yes. Why? That's how we see Zazen. That's the purpose of Zazen, is to get beyond right and wrong. Beyond good and bad. Beyond like and dislike. Otherwise you're always fighting for righteousness. Which is suffering. Yes. So it's less suffering if you get beyond suffering? Less suffering, yes. I see some value in that.

[26:49]

Yeah, good. But, be careful. Yeah, because if I sit to get beyond suffering, I won't. That's right. Okay. So, simply put the left foot on the right thigh. So then he says, loosen your robes and arrange them in an orderly way. I don't know what that means exactly, but wear your robes loosely so they don't restrict you, basically. Would it be appropriate to say maybe take care of your comportment? As far as arranging your robes, it's like, don't just sit down, but actually sit down with some care and attention. I mean, we watch you for years. The thing is, yeah, when you're wearing the robe, you have to do that.

[27:51]

But yes. I remember Suzuki Roshi saying, there's no... Buddhism will end someday. Buddhism will be all over someday. But that will only happen when Maitreya arrives or something. And then I'll be able to take off these troublesome robes. I don't have to wear them anymore. But yeah, I think, yes, you can embellish it as you like. Steven? Well, it doesn't sound so good, embellishing. It's like, I'm going to sit down now and meditate. you know, be mindful and aware of how you sit down, how you arrange yourself, how you arrange your clothing.

[28:54]

And I remember sometimes people would sit on the tan, we had these zabatons on the tan, and it was a little bit crooked, you know. You would take the zabaton and move the whole thing with the person to straighten it out. And the thing about straightening things out, I think, is paying attention. Like, I always go up to the altar and straighten it out, every single time. And once in a while, everything is in order. And I think, oh my God, there's nothing to straighten out. I'll just go home. The Buddha's off, or the bull is off, or the things are in front of other things. How do you read it? How you arrange the altar is how you arrange your mind. How you take care of your clothes, your deportment, is how you take care of your mind.

[29:58]

So that's all. We may think, well, that's just being fussy. But it's how we don't neglect things and take care of our practice. And it helps to keep our mind straight and clear. So loosen your ropes and arrange them in an orderly way. Place the right hand on the left foot and the left hand on the right hand. So you put your right hand on the left foot. I mean, this is kind of a crude statement. It's more. And then the left hand on the right. So the right hand is holding the left hand. way we do it is holding the left hand.

[31:05]

And then lightly touching the ends of the thumbs together, and with the hands in this position, place them next to the body so that the thumb joins thumb tips. Of course, you know, you really don't put them on a foot. You put them somewhere. You hold it against your finger over here. Some tips. Very tightly. Not like this. Not like this. It's not a perfect circle. It's a circular form. This is also a circle. People sometimes say, well, it's hard to hold my hands up here, because my arms get tired. But if you think of a circle, in a circle, there's no special place that has any more tension than any other place, because the tension is equalized.

[32:13]

So this circle is all equal, more or less. The tension in this circle is equalized. So there's no place where you should have any tension. Matter of fact, there should be no tension at all here. And then there's another circle. So this is kind of a circle within a circle. And some tips are touching, barely. That keeps you awake. start pressing against each other, you know that there's too much tension in your body and it's being echoed through your thumbs. It's being transmitted through your thumbs. Well, where's the tenseness in my body? And then you think about, oh, maybe it's in my arms, or maybe it's in my back, or my neck.

[33:17]

You know, when we have a lot of pain or a lot of discomfort, we need something, we tend to hold on to something. And since there's nothing to hold on to, we hold on to our body. Which doesn't help. So it's extra. It's not necessary to have that tenseness. And so, but we, like we tense up our Maybe put our elbows against our body and start tensing up, or tensing up our back. When I go to adjust posture, sometimes it's like adjusting a statue, a stone statue. I don't know, it's like, you know, That's what causes most of our problems, is our tenseness.

[34:24]

So, when the thumbs are pressing you, where is the tenseness? And then think of the tenseness as draining out of your body. Just feel the tenseness draining out of your shoulders. And then just think of the tenseness draining out of your upper arms. tenseness in your back. Just feel all the tenseness draining out. There's no reason for it to be there at all. The only place that's holding you up is your vertebrae and your lower back and the lift. All the rest can just fly off. There's no reason to have any of that. So you're teaching about letting it go.

[35:31]

We have a kind of hump in our back, upper back sometimes, and our head is leaning forward, and that causes a lot of strain. That's why we sit up straight. Posture is the most important part. Posture is the most important part. And the spine curves. The spine is not like this. You know, actually, when you make one of these, it should be able to stand up by itself. If you put it down at the table, it should be able to stand up like that. So that all of the curvatures and dots, all balanced. And this is how we set up them. It's just all balanced. side to side.

[36:36]

So, this is what we're doing, just balance everything. And this is non-duality. To sit in a non-dual way is to balance all the forces, so there's nothing, I'm pulling any other thing away. It's all one piece. Suzuki Roshi used to say, when he crossed his legs in full lotus, he couldn't tell which was which. And you can't. When you sit in the full lotus, you don't know which is which. It's all one piece. It's all interwoven and balanced. And there's no this and that. So, balance is everything, and there's no need to have tenseness in your body.

[37:44]

Why am I tense? Because I'm holding on to something. What am I holding on to? I can't tell you. Loosen your ropes and raise them in an orderly way. Place the right hand, left foot, and so forth. Straighten the body and sit erect. That's posture. Don't lean to the left or the right. Don't bend forward or backward. Your ears should be in line with your shoulders and your nose in line with your navel. So the hardest part, it's easy to align our nose with our navel. That's easy. But to align our ears with our shoulders is not easy. We think we're sitting up straight, but we're not. So when you sit, you should really pay attention to keeping your ears in line with your shoulders and lifting up your sternum.

[39:06]

If you don't lift up your sternum, your body collapses. And then you just start to implode instead of explode. And you should really feel like you're exploding. When you're sitting, exploding, totally opening up. So that's what that is, it's opening up, it's not shutting down. So that's why posture is so important. And lifting up the sternum really opens us up. It opens up your whole upper body. It lifts your upper body. And that's how you can put your ears, mind, and your shoulders. And I just have to keep reiterating this over and over. So, rest your tongue against the roof of your mouth and breathe through your nose.

[40:23]

Lips and teeth should be closed, eyes open, neither too wide nor too narrow. So, it's hard to keep our eyes open during Zazen. We can't help closing our eyes, but then we should make an effort to keep them open so that we don't get lost in our imagination. So having adjusted body and mind in this manner, take a breath and exhale fully. He said take a breath and exhale fully, whatever that means. And I talked about this yesterday, I think, to prime your breathing, which should be deep down here. And take a breath and expand your lower abdomen. And then exhale.

[41:26]

And feel your lower abdomen moving in. Inhale. Exhale. Inhale. Not up here. Here. And the C or T. kind of like key of safe. You see, the key is sometimes called the bread basket or the rice paddies. This is a place where you feel good. When you breathe correctly, you feel good. And this is what you should always come back to and never leave, is your awareness of breathing down here. It purifies your blood and oxygenates your body. So, to take that breath, the exhale means breathe out all the bad air.

[42:29]

your breathing becomes rough or you find yourself breathing up here. You can always find your breath by taking a big breath down here. So then he says, sit solidly in samadhi and think not thinking. So think not thinking is a big subject In several fascicles, especially when Zazen Shin, Dogen talks about think not thinking. We've all heard about think not thinking and what that means. But Dogen goes into it very carefully, and it's a big subject. but nevertheless sits solidly in samadhi.

[43:43]

Samadhi means concentration, literally, but it means basically not being moved. It's the unwavering position, unwavering state, where no matter what is happening, you can't be moved. And not being moved doesn't mean that you don't move. And Dogen uses that along with Sink Not Sinking. Samadhi is like the unified mind, or one-pointedness.

[44:54]

One-pointedness is one way to think about samadhi, but actually as concentration. There are two kinds of concentration. One is one-pointed concentration, It's like laser type of concentration. And then there's wide concentration. So laser kind of concentration is to pick a point and just focus on that point. Wide concentration is no special point. It's just simply opening your eyes. If concentration is in the eyes, simply opening the eyes and letting the eyes take in the panorama of its vision. So, concentration in zazen has both.

[45:55]

So, single concentration is, or inclusive concentration is to, when you go over the points of your posture, you're concentrating on one point at a time. You're concentrating on posture, concentrating on the position of your tongue or your teeth, concentrating on any point exclusively. And when you're concentrating on that one point, all the rest is in the background. Wide concentration is no special point, but wherever the eyes are, are open to, it takes in the panorama, without focusing, picking out any one particular point. So this is concentration of equality. And this is what we do in zazen.

[46:59]

When you're looking at the wall, we do pick out little places, you know, like little bugs You sat there for a period of zazen with your eyes on the wall, but you didn't really see anything in particular. But this wide concentration is very important, because usually when we think of concentration, we think of one-pointedness. But wide concentration is the concentration that has no particular point of view, and it's open and ready for anything. It's the concentration of the frog. Just openness, just vast openness, and not discursive, or not picking at something.

[48:01]

So, the siren It goes by, and the mind is like a mirror. It just reflects whatever goes by. So it's really mirror concentration. Whatever happens, whatever goes by, is just seen, but not elaborated. So it's pure concentration without any interference. So it says, sit solemnly in samadhi and think not thinking. So this goes back to the story of Yaksan, Yueshan, and Baso, I think it was, Matsu, who was seeing him sitting in zazen, his teacher said, oh no, I'm sorry,

[49:17]

That's a later elaboration. Yaksen was sitting in Zazen and a monk came up and he said, what do you think about when you're sitting in Zazen? And Yaksen said, I think Non-thinking has various ways to understand it. So this is the koan, non-thinking. I think non-thinking. So there's thinking, and there's not thinking, and there's non-thinking. So what are you thinking about? So in Zazen, what do we think about?

[50:21]

What do you think about? I think non-thinking. So there's thinking, not thinking, and non-thinking. So thinking is one side. Not thinking is another side. So this is a duality. Thinking and not thinking. This and that. Yes and no. Is it right not to think? Usually, mistakenly, people think that in Zazen there shouldn't be any thinking. The mind should be blank. But that's not Zazen. That's not Dogon. Because that's just a black mind.

[51:29]

So we don't sit with a black mind, or try to make the mind black, or eliminate all thinking. That's unnatural. There's no point in it. So thinking... But what do you think about? If it's okay to think, what do you think about? not thinking, or non-thinking. Dogen says non-thinking is the non's thinking, or not thinking is the not's thinking. This is Dogen using, getting beyond using language to get beyond language.

[52:34]

You can say he could have construed the meaning to be beyond thinking and non-thinking. That's actually the meaning. Non-thinking, the meaning is beyond thinking and not thinking. So that thinking. When you say the not thinking, that's the possessive form of not. That's right. It's the possessive form of not. So the not becomes the subject. The thinking that belongs then to the not. Yes. Could you say that non-thinking Awareness is important.

[53:43]

When thinking, be aware of thinking. When not thinking, be aware of not thinking. But there's always thinking. It's Zazen. It's the thinking of Zazen. It's Zazen thinking. It's the Zazen's thinking. Does it ever come up that you have a student or somebody talking to you, asking for advice about Zazen, who tells you that they are able to stop thinking? Oh, yeah. Oh, it does? Okay, that does happen. So it's worth saying that you're not getting there if you don't think. Some people can actually do that. I haven't been able to do that myself. Yes, but there's no need to do that. Yes, thank you, but I think it was unnecessary to say to people, don't do not thinking. But maybe it is, because some people can actually succeed at that.

[54:45]

Yes, that's right. Some people can succeed at that. There's a guy, when they have hot dog competitions, does he ever eat the most hot dogs? There's a guy that can eat like 500, no that's too many, 50 hot dogs within 15 minutes. That's a great accomplishment, but who cares, right? You can stop the thinking, but who cares? What about it? But you can do it for a little bit. You can't do it for very long, because the mind, thinking mind, wants to think. It doesn't stop. Even in sleep it doesn't stop. It does for some people sometimes. Yeah. When they try. There are anomalies. There's always anomalies. There's always, you know... But... We don't eliminate thinking.

[55:49]

But... So thinking is a part... Thinking is an act of non-thinking, and non-thinking is an act of thinking. They're both thinking. You may say, I'm going to catch the moment, I'm not going to think, but I'm going to catch the moment my mind starts to think a thought. I'm waiting, and while you're waiting, something for a few minutes and not realizing it. Right? Yes. Yeah. So the language of it reminds me of the original faith, doing not doing. When I'm acting I'm always heart beating and I think people who believe in stopping their mind are kidding themselves and so when we're thinking our

[56:59]

We can be, wow, that's something. And then we can kind of recognize it in my experience that I'm just thinking about stuff that I can let go quickly and let original thinking or something come back, if that makes sense. We come back to our original mind. Yes, which includes thinking. That's the whole point, is that, well, There's discursive thinking and non-discursive thinking. So what I mean by discursive thinking is purposely thinking about something. And non-discursive means not purposely thinking about something, because the mind is always just making it. It needs something to think about. And so it'll make up anything. It does it in dreams. It needs something to think about. Because it needs something to work on all the time.

[58:06]

You were talking earlier about that we already have enlightenment. We already have enlightenment. Enlightenment is our nature. I was saying sometimes I have the impression, like looking at other people, that just for a moment somebody looks like they are just where it's at, right there, but it's just a second, and then they may be in the middle of a temper tantrum or any number of other things, but somehow I have the impression that for a moment that person was really where it was at, and the question is, so it's like you say, it's not to seek it exactly, but to somehow And it's not just a potential, that they were actually, you know, as far as you could go. But the thing is, it's just going on all the time, so it kind of gets lost in there. for a moment they were really balanced, for a moment they were like this, but you almost don't notice it for all the other stuff that's going on.

[59:18]

And maybe it's kind of like that with the thinking, too, that it's not so much a question of not having thoughts or having thoughts as somehow juggling, like, you know, living with that different stuff that's going on. to something that I would call the common denominator, which is the basis of enlightenment. The common denominator. And what I wrote is to stay within the common denominator, which is it, in the midst of diversity. So what happens is we're all, the common denominator is where everybody's at. Everybody's it. and the diversity, and we call it light, for lack of a better term.

[60:24]

Everyone has their own light, but it's obscured by ignorance. But nevertheless, ignorance is it also. And when you have some clarity, like a window opens for you and then you see the nature of that person for a moment. That's seeing as it is. That's how you see everyone's Buddha nature, even though they're terrible, so to speak. The nature is there because it's just there. Otherwise, we have to make up something, like create something called enlightenment, But it's just light. Enlightenment means letting light out, releasing light. So everyone, that's why we say, it's not that everyone is enlightened exactly, but the light is already there.

[61:28]

And so that's what brings you to practice. You wouldn't come to practice because the light is seeking the light, like water seeks water. Light seeks light. But as obscure it is, because we have so much covering, it's hard to see. We get caught by the covering. But the covering is also it. Except that. So when we see Zazen, we get down to the common denominator. That's why we said Zazen didn't get down to zero. Common denominator is zero. And then 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. That's why when Dogen went to China, he got off the boat and they met the Tenzo, who said, you don't understand characters.

[62:29]

And Zazen said, what are characters? And the diversity is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. So when we're always at zero, then we're in the fundamental position. And then our enlightenment, our light, so to speak, transferred through our actions, through our activity. So, I mean this is a kind of model. Getting back to thinking, in the Eightfold Path there's a fold called Right Thought.

[63:39]

Yes. about how that evolved to non-thinking. Yeah. Non-dual thoughts. Think non-dual thought. Think non-dual thinking. There's good thoughts and there are bad thoughts, and there are right thoughts and there are wrong thoughts, right? And there's precepts and all this, which is good or bad. But this is neither good nor bad thoughts. Think not thinking is neither good nor bad, nor right nor wrong. way you just see something as it really is. So it's not really you thinking, it's the who thinking or the hows thinking.

[64:41]

In other words, it's the nature thinking. It's Is it shedding more light on this original teaching of wholesome thoughts? Because when we talk about wholesome thoughts, it has this feeling of dualistic thinking, wholesome and unwholesome, in the Mahayana. Okay, so there's wholesome and unwholesome, right? Which is a duality. Then there's a wholesome which is beyond wholesome and unwholesome. So there's thinking which is beyond thinking and not thinking. Thinking and not thinking is a duality. Non-thinking is a wholesome thought, which is beyond thinking and not thinking. It's considered a wholesome thought? Well, I consider it a wholesome thought. I don't know, it is considered.

[65:42]

But beyond thinking and not... Yeah, I mean, yes, wholesome thought, beyond wholesome and unwholesome, beyond thinking and not thinking. the thought which is beyond thinking and not thinking, which simply means to just see everything as it is. So wholesome rather than being good or bad, wholesome This is the problem I have with Bodhidharma. No holiness, right? Well, holiness simply means complete. Whole. It comes from the word whole. So it means entire. So I'm not sure that's a good translation.

[66:46]

No holiness. I have trouble with that. Holy means whole, means non-dual, I think. But, you know, we don't necessarily, religious practice, we don't necessarily think about it that way, but I don't know. I don't know everything. Alan? At the same time, there's no place that is sacred as soon as you establish something as sacred, you succumb to all errors. There's no special place.

[67:48]

That's the meaning I've always given to that, but it's still something. So how do you think not thinking? Non-thinking. So this is the art of zazen. So, Zalstan is not learning to do concentration, or step by step, but concentration, learning to do concentration, it is just simply the dharmakiri of great ease and joy. So, learning to do something, you know, We talk about training, but I'm uncomfortable with the word training.

[69:19]

Like we talk about priest training, you know. What is priest training? Well, priest training is no particular training. But because we think we should have some training, we do something called training. It's not about training. It's simply about practicing 24 hours a day with sincerity. That's priest training. That's layperson's training. It's everybody's training. There's no special training. There really is no special training. And so people say, well, what do your priests do? How do you train your priests? The word that's coming up for me is expression.

[70:24]

And somehow expression has a quality of wholeness to it in terms of this thinking, non-thinking. Because my experience is that when I say something and it just comes, I could say that it was a thought, you know, later I could say it was a thought that arose and formed into But the experience of it is that it's just the true expression of the moment coming forth. And sometimes that's in words, and sometimes that's in gesture, and so on. And also, we have all these sense gates in the Heart Sutra, and this sort of a thing. And I keep thinking of the Buddhist basic teaching of feelings as feelings, body as body, mind as mind. fits into this conversation. Well, that. You mentioned about six or seven things. How did that... Well, it seems like thinking is connected to consciousness as we have, you know, the sense gates and consciousness, and thinking is the expression of, if you will, consciousness.

[71:37]

But it could just as easily have been words on Feeling, non-feeling, not feeling, which for me tends to be much more of an edge than thinking. It's like, what do I do when I have a really strong feeling? I'm not going to exactly go to non-feeling. That's numbness, let's say. Or not feeling. So what is non-feeling? Non-feeling in the realm of feelings. Yeah. It means not being turned around by any special feeling. Not getting caught by any special feeling. Not being captivated by any special... That's basic Buddhism. Not being captivated by any special feeling. To let feelings arise. And this feeling has now... This is a stereotype. This feeling has now arisen in me. That's all. It's not like, oh, now I'm going to do something about it.

[72:42]

No. This feeling has now arisen in me. So this is investigating or dealing with the feeling in the feelings. You always let the feeling come up. You always let the thought come up. So it's the same with the feelings, the thoughts, or whatever that comes up. You just notice this comes up. And then you act according to not being attached. You can. Sometimes you have to be a test. Yes. Well, we also talk about penetrating. I never use that word anymore. Okay. No, when you're sad, be completely sad.

[73:42]

When you're cold, be completely cold. That kind of thing. That's what I mean by that word that I choose. You know, so that's a little bit different. I mean, it's a little bit different because when you're sad, you know, it's not saying, oh, I'm going to let it necessarily, you know, there's there's kind of bypassing it where there's really feeling it without making up a story. Yes. So that, you know, When sad, just be totally sad. When happy, just be totally happy. Don't be, but then let it go. It's the letting go that's important. Whatever comes up, totally be that. That's the same as realizing the feelings within the feelings.

[74:46]

It's within the feeling that's important. It's not like, oh, I just see that this is my sadness. No. Within the feeling means, I am sad. I am so sad that I am sadder than sad is sad. And that's a commentary in one of the koans. I am so sad that I am sadder than any sad thing. And then, OK. Now let that go and let's start again. Not to be dragged around by your feelings, but at the same time to totally acknowledge and be your feelings. We get caught by being caught by our feelings. Don't get caught by feelings or

[75:40]

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