This morning, I want to talk about eating bowls again. Dogen says, Dharma is eating. Eating is Dharma and Dharma is food. Food is Dharma and Dharma is food. Food is not just something that we eat to support the body, but food itself is dharma. So we study food as we study dharma, and we eat food as we practice dharma. So, as you know, Before we eat, we say a lot of things, and we sing for our supper.

[01:03]

This food is to practice the way of Buddha, and not just for our own benefit, but for the benefit of all beings, we eat this food. So this is what the meal chant is about. And so we do it in a, eat this food in a selfless way, actually. So eating food is, and the way we practice eating food is as a non-self-centered activity. So paying attention to the food that we eat, and also paying attention to the utensils, paying attention to the bowls, the cloths, is all part of that.

[02:22]

And doing something mindfully is part of that. In Dogen's Dogen has a fascicle devoted to eating with the bowls, and he talks about each aspect of detail, which is a little bit different than the way oriyaki has evolved, but basically it's the same. And some of it is quite humorous. He talks in a way like the way Buddha talks to his monks. In Buddha's time, when you read Buddha's admonitions on either eating or sexual misbehavior or whatever, it's always quite humorous.

[03:25]

He says monks should not have sexual relations with statues or monkeys. or every conceivable way that you can, or with a hole in the fence. And in eating, Duggan says, you shouldn't throw your arms around while doing the meal, lean on your elbow and say, take this scooper out of the hands of the server and look for tidbits. Or sit there like this. I do want to talk a bit about this.

[04:41]

There's some things that I want to revise from yesterday, but first of all, I will read a little from Damien's Pure Standards for the Zen Community on eating habits. And the things that I want to revise is, I said it doesn't matter whether you Take out the spoon and the chopsticks first from the bag, right? But take out the chopsticks first, then take out the spoon. Then when you're done, put the We can't do it the same way that they did in India, because in India everybody eats with their hands.

[06:07]

And so eating with spoons and chopsticks is a Chinese and Japanese innovation. But originally in China, everybody ate with their hands. So the rules for eating in China were for how to roll rice balls with your hands, and how not to, and so forth. eat the way they do in China, but the Rinzai style of eating, not called Oryoki, called Jihatsu, and you have smaller bowls, and you eat with your hands, and wash the bowls with your fingers. That's more like Indian style. So when taking up or putting down bowls, and also when picking up your spoon or chopsticks, don't make any noise.

[07:12]

Don't dig out rice from the middle of the bowl when you eat, or when you eat, to rush or make it appear that you need more. Unless you're sick, do not seek after extra soup or rice for yourself. Do not cover the soup with rice, hoping to get more by making it appear less. Do not look into other monks bowls arousing envy. And just eat with your attention focused on your bowls. Do not try to eat balls or mouthfuls of rice that are too big. Do not throw bowls of rice into your mouth. Do not take food and then leave it uneaten to be thrown away.

[08:17]

Do not make noise when chewing your food. Katya Giriroshi used to always say, you should eat pickle without making any noise. Now when you eat a pickle, there's always some sound. So you should always try to eat a pickle without making any noise. So that's the kind of, you know, way to focus your attention. Do not loudly slurp up your food. Do not lick your food. Buddha said we should not stick out our tongue or lick our lips when we eat. We must study this. Do not wave your hands around when you eat. Do not support your elbows and your knees when you eat. Do not scatter your food or play with it. Buddha said, while eating, do not scatter your bread or rice like a chicken.

[09:24]

Do not Do not fill your bowls to overflowing. Do not mix soup into the rice in your first bowl. Actually, we never put any. We never mix anything in the first bowl, but it's possible to mix the second and third bowl. If you have like fruit and yogurt or nuts or something, you can mix those, but not in the first bowl. Because the first bowl is the main eating bowl, and the other two are like complementary. Basically there's only one eating bowl, but out of compassion, we have those other bowls.

[10:41]

There's a sutra that talks about mixing food and the greed type, the hate type, and the delusion type. One of the marks of the delusion type is that they just mix all their food together and eat it indiscriminately, whereas the greed type places this over there and this over here and eats each one separately and flawfully, whereas the delusion type just mixes, puts everything in, mixes it all together and eats it. So maybe the later Buddhists are more green types and the early Buddhists are more On the other hand, the Tarabans have a much bigger bowl.

[12:02]

The Koreans have a huge bowl. It's true. Anyway, baking bowls also can be bigger than Oryoki bowls. Do not eat great mouthfuls, like a monkey storing up food in its cheeks and gnawing on it. Generally, whether you are on the left or right side of the wall, do not eat your food too hurriedly or too leisurely. Definitely, you must never rush your eating and then fold your arms and look around the assembly. When seconds have not yet been announced, do not wipe your bowls clean and salivate, thinking you're eating more.

[13:10]

Do not crudely leave over some food, waiting for more rice or soup to eat it with. Do not scratch your head and let dandruff fall into your bowls. You should keep your hands clean. Do not shake your body, hold your knees, sit crouched over, yawn or sniffle loudly. If you have to sneeze, cover your nose. If you have to remove something from between your teeth, you should cover your mouth. Place inedible scraps or fruit pits out of sight behind your bowls where they cannot provoke your neighbor's distaste. If there is leftover food or fruit in your neighbor's bowl, do not accept it, even if it is offered to you. When it is hot in the hall, do not ask the serving monks to fan you. If your neighbor is someone who avoids breezes, do not use a fan yourself.

[14:17]

If you yourself fear drafts, tell the Ino and eat your meal in the outer hall. If there's something you need, point it out rather than calling out in a loud voice. and so forth. Do not open your mouth wide and try to eat huge spoonfuls so that the extra food falls down into your bowls and leaves a mess on your spoon. Buddha said, while waiting to eat, do not open up your mouth. Also, do not speak while food is in your mouth. Buddha said, do not cover your rice with soup, vegetables, or other side dishes. This should be studied. Buddha said, when eating, do not cork your tongue or audibly clear your throat. Do not puff on your food to warm it or blow on your food to cool it off. So these are all interesting things not to do.

[15:23]

So Buddha didn't just sit down and start talking about rules. Someone always came and asked him something. And then he said, well, we shouldn't do these things. But one at a time, things occur. But Dogen is also referring to other texts which have already been established. He's not just making up rules. He's just using other texts and creating it. This is extra for most of you.

[17:36]

Now, Yesterday I said to put the Setsu down first, but actually you don't. You get the chopsticks and the spoon out first. Some people have trouble with this part. You just simply go like that. It's not like that. You don't put the end in your fingers. You don't put the end. You just make an S. Then You can take the chopsticks, I said to take the chopsticks out like this and put them down. You can also do it like this, which is actually easier. Well, you want to put the chopsticks going to the right. And then lift the spoon out, and the spoon going to the right. Then, the setsu. This arrow points to the left.

[19:18]

Underneath. It might be good. So, when we eat with the oreoki, the three bowls are kind of designed so that the first bowl is the main dish. That's the grain. So the style of eating with rice is that you eat rice, and then you eat a little bit of something else, and then you go back to the rice, and then you go to the next dish, and then you go back to the rice. So the rice is the main dish, and then you have these smaller accompanying dishes that you eat. But you always keep coming back to the rice. So instead of eating all the rice and then eating all of the soup and then eating all of the, it's rice and then something else and then rice and then something else.

[20:24]

And every time you eat a little bit of something else, you keep coming back to the rice. That's the style and that's the way that the food is designed to eat. I remember going into a, Chinese buffet restaurant. And they have all these wonderful things, and they have a lot of rice. And so I was taking some of the rice, but I was also taking a lot of the other things. And this woman said, no, no. That's very greedy, you know. You don't take a lot of the other things. You take a lot And if you eat this way, then the timing of the meal comes out for everybody. Everybody kind of has the same timing in eating.

[21:26]

You know what I mean? We all end pretty much closer to the same time if we eat that way. And I would suggest, if you don't, that you try it. It makes sense in this kind of Also, when we put our spoon in the Buddha bowl, and then we put our chopsticks, and then we chant, and then we pick up the Buddha bowl, right? And when we pick up the bowl, your fingers are on the side like this and the thumbs are back and the fingers on the the two fingers on the bottom are like this. This is called a lotus mudra actually.

[22:29]

So I hold this edge even with this edge even with my eye. So I try to align this edge with that edge. And that's straight. It comes out straight. And it also comes out attentive. And then you can eat. And when you eat, it's not like this, but you hold the bowl up and you eat like this. And we find ourselves But if you eat like this, it's more attentive. Also, you tend not to drop things. And it's more dignified. Yes? Could you demonstrate the little bow that you do? Oh, not much. Just your head, not the bowl. Not the bowl. Just tilt your head.

[23:30]

Or actually, tilt your waist. It doesn't have to be much. It's just like... Also, when you You don't want to leave it hanging out like that.

[24:58]

But the tip can be just a little above so that you can access it. And you wash the chopsticks. I used to leave my setsu in the bowl in the water. But one time in Tassajara, I saw it rise up and slip over. So now I put it across like that, so that that doesn't happen. Dry off the chopsticks. And you use your left finger and thumb as the fulcrum, and you turn it around. and then backwards. You put it in the bag, which is folded, and then you wash the spoon and do the same thing.

[26:14]

Actually, I did this backwards. The spoon should go first. Then you pick it up, I'll fold it up. Then you let this down. And then it's going this way. The arrow's going to the left. And that was different than what we said. I'll explain why that was a problem. Then we wash out that ball. Yes. And pour the water. Pour the water towards you, not off to the side. Put both thumbs on. Is that true? And pour the water. Half of the water, or some of, most of the water.

[27:17]

Then you drink. Pour the water first, then drink. I notice people drink and then pour the water. Then the third bowl. Can you do that? Then you wipe the setsu. Now, then the setsu is done in your left hand instead of your right hand. That was the problem yesterday. Pull it through, and then it goes right in. Voila. Well, wait a minute. How do you put the collected water?

[28:20]

That's after, well, the server comes. I'm sorry. You didn't do that. I didn't, no, you're right. Show us where you expect to find the collecting bowl. Okay, good idea. The servers do it differently. I don't like the way they do it at Zinssiner. If you put the bowl between two people, the bucket, leaning the bucket against the ton, but not way down there, so you have to, you know, get way up, but more with the bottom part of the bucket up against the ton, and accommodating, you know, and then so that The reason it's tipped is so that when you pour the water, it falls on the side of the bucket, not splashing into the bottom. And then, if you can lean over, you do it this way. If you can't, you do it with one hand.

[29:21]

Some people do it like this. I don't care whether it's like this or like this. I tend to do it like this. Somehow like this seems this and just let the water fall into the side of the bucket so you become very accommodating when you're serving and you pour off most of the water and then you drink the rest a little bit because you also are a hungry ghost and then you'll in your hand. And then if you have one of these, wipe it off.

[30:24]

And the left hand on top, fingers and thumb. And with your finger, you just turn it. Turn it on your finger. Then, you're like a magician. This is so simple. You just have a mirror. It's just between, you're just doing this, right? Right. It's like when you fold a towel.

[31:50]

Don't you do that when you fold a towel? No. Only when you do an R.A.P. Sorry. Then you just slide the other ones down. Then you do it again. Then you go halfway and pick up this. People do it like this, which is fine. I have variants. Sometimes I do it one way, sometimes I do it another. But it's all consistent. Sometimes I just pick this up first and then do that. But I don't want to lean over. And two fingers down. Some people put three fingers. I think it's easier with two. Lay it across those two fingers. And then lay this one across. And then this is tying your shoes.

[32:52]

And then you just make a half a bow. I remember I used to explain how to tie that knot over and over again. I will never do it again. You can figure it out. I have to say it's just like tying your shoes with a half a bow. I would take it to Japan, but I heard that the last time that they did this, that Kōitsu got everybody a set of the same bowls, so that all their bowls would be the same. This is very Japanese. So all the bowls would be the same. It was for ease of packing.

[33:59]

People didn't need to bring bowls. Yeah, exactly. You don't need to bring bowls. And he got special oreo bowls because Americans eat more, so they're bigger. Yeah, that's true. So you'll eat a lot of pickles in Japan? Yeah. Well, I hope so. The thing is, I was wondering what your feelings of position would be about a person who ate with reasonable That sounds like everybody.

[35:13]

In order to straighten out a snake, you put him into a bamboo tube. We're all little snakes. So actually, this practice is defense at UN. That's what this is about. It's like taking this wiggly, eccentric, egotistical, arbitrary, ornery, unpredictable, creature and putting it into one position, where it can't do what it wants, in that sense.

[36:24]

Yes. It is an expression of egotism. Who is it that doesn't want to learn the forms? Who is it that's not willing to give up something? Their own way. Their own style. But there's both in each one. Both sides are there in each one of us.

[37:45]

Well, I have two technical questions for you. I'll start by saying that orioke still gives me some anxiety, though much less than it used to. So my question has, one, about licking the, one is that you didn't mention that, licking the, you know, the spoon and the chopsticks. Well, in the sense of, I think that what Doug was saying is that although we do clean the chopsticks this way, it's like you don't take your But you didn't do it, so... Like Mr. Bean, you know. That's only when necessary, right? I mean, apparently, if your utensils are clean enough, you don't... Yeah, if they're clean enough... I've been, like, making myself do it. Don't do make work.

[38:59]

Extra step, extra step. And the second is, I've never, luckily, never dropped food. There is someone who comes... I've been told there's someone who comes around. I'm usually so busy trying to do things right that I haven't even seen the person. There is someone coming around, right? How does that work? Well, they come around with a little bag. A little bag? You see somebody come around with a little white bag? Yeah. Yeah, that's the one. That's the guy. And you go show to... And then he holds open the bag and whatever you want to put in there, you put in it. Also, you know, Dogen says when you drop little things, you should clean them up and wait for that person to come around. But I always just pick them up and eat them. I'm kind of ornery myself. As a Montessori preschool teacher, I was very familiar with a lot of what was spoken

[40:05]

And I wondered how old the monks were. Well, they vary in age. Oh, but they were not preschoolers. Although sometimes they could be very young, actually. I think in a lot of the monasteries they would take in orphans and They started practicing when they were 12 and 13, for one reason or another. I also wanted to add an appreciation for your presentation, which must be very difficult for someone trying to listen to this on the tape. But it's one of the things that Maria Montessori said, when you present a work, is you do it silently. And it focuses the attention. And I noticed that mine was very focused.

[41:14]

I know this is the second run through and it's really kind of repetition as well. We'll see what happens. Yeah, well, today I didn't really want to explain as much as just to do it. I think in this practice, observing is important. Observing how someone does something. It's like, They don't teach you very much. When you become a priest or a monk, they don't teach you very much. And you're supposed to observe to see how things are done. And then if they're not done right, you get scolded. That's the style. So that makes you be attentive. No one taught me how to do the service or how to do very much of anything, but I just had to learn through observing my teachers.

[42:15]

So, that's a big part of how we get it, how we teach and how we get it. I'm very glad you mentioned Mr. Bean because, you know, he's just at the other end of the continuum and, you know, maybe we're somehow what makes his own rules. It would be interesting to have a Mr. Bean orioke instruction. Right, Sojin and Mr. Bean study orioke.

[43:27]

Is this our last Sashin with you before you go to Japan? Yes. We won't see you again, Sashin, until June? Yes. Bon voyage. Yeah, the 15th. I think you'll be back in May. Of May. No, the 15th we leave, of April. Yeah. Do you read the place in charge of...

[44:09]

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