and unsurpassing and perfect dharma is rarely met with even in a hundred thousand million koppas having it to see and listen to to remember I vow to taste the truth of the Deuteronomy. Good morning. Welcome, everyone. My name's Linda. Is there anyone here? Oh, lots of people. Wonderful. Welcome. Thank you so much for coming. Hope you find what you're looking for here. So I want to say, first of all, Mushim was supposed to give the talk today, and I just, some of you, to let you know, Mushim is fine.

[01:09]

She's not, things arose in her life, and she was not able to come at the last minute. She will be speaking in late June, so we'll let you know then. So, yesterday morning, there was a fire in Tassajara, And the zendo burned down completely. So for those of you who are new, Tassajara is the San Francisco Zen Center Monastery in the mountains, just inland of Bidya. And it's been a practice place for many, many people here and elsewhere around the world. And it's a very deeply treasured place. So as I... speak of it you might consider it as any place that you have loved and profoundly not only as a place but as a place of being with other people who are deeply meaningful to you and with whom you share a life and vows and all of you together are both your best and your worst selves and you can get through the times because of

[02:28]

our vows together. The rest of Tassajara is completely fine. And I also wanted to say the announcement that I sent out from Mako on the listserv mentioned that the cause was man-made, which just basically means it wasn't caused by lightning or other natural, well, it was, we think. Several of us believe that there was a semi-natural cause. The fire started in the attic and there's a lot of wood rats that live up there. The electrical was just a Romex cable which they can chew through rather easily. So somehow there was a spark and it started and spread. And I guess it was Myoju who first noticed it around midnight and went and roused everyone, and David Zimmerman is leading the practice period down there now.

[03:34]

And by the way, this was day seven of their sushine, day seven of an eight-day sushine. So he's in this very tender, open space and suddenly coming together. And David was a fire monk many years ago. What was that, the Basin Complex fire? So he was leading the practice period, which, you know, in his cabin is right next to the zendo. So I guess Mako said he was going in and out of the zendo, carrying things before it got too bad. And my own sense is, you know, and they'd put a metal roof on the zendo some years ago as fire protection. But in this case, it didn't allow the heat to escape. So it burned. incredibly hot and that there's there's nothing there's nothing except those little concrete blocks that you put foundations in there's neat little rows of those and the face of the Buddha is in the middle of ash and rubble but the rest of the Buddha did not make it it was just

[04:57]

Too hot, too dispersed. And I went to the Shusosa yesterday at City Center. So I got to see like so many people from San Francisco Zen Center and Mako, Fire Monk. Mako and David are both now Abbots. Mako was there because David's down there, she's up here. And already people were talking about, you know, it's like so much grief, loss, depends on kind of how long you've been around, because many people remember this Zendo, which was the new temporary Zendo that was built in 1978 after the original Zendo burned down. So... And in Japan, I mean, for hundreds of, you know, until recently, everything was built out of wood and paper.

[06:01]

So fires were frequent and rebuilt. But we're going to rebuild it. So people who are more senior were already talking about, like, rebuilding and fundraising, what we're going to do, and just very practical things. I guess a lot of people, I guess everybody lost their oriyoki bowls because it was during sashimi in there. Although they won't need them for the summer. And some people had their rakasus, a few okasis, but mostly rakasus on the back of the Angawa stored there. So I was thinking about how can we sew people new robes. And along with that, I'd been texting yesterday with a friend who is currently in Japan.

[07:05]

And she wrote to me yesterday after hearing about this, I used to be obsessed with an Annie DeFranco song that started, I am out here studying stones, trying to learn to be less alive. This song popped into my head suddenly this morning, but I looked up and realized that the trees reminded me so much of that old tree behind the zendo in front of the library that I fear is lost today. I remember in the winter of 2017 studying with such complete wonder how these ancient gnarled branches could produce and then flowers. From where... in that seemingly dead branch does this life spring. It's always together. It's always together. I think all faces of the Buddha have this very gentle smile like this.

[08:19]

And when I saw that picture, you know, the smile is intact and, you know, damage around the face, but still, still there. Buddha is still there. Buddha has not gone away. You know, here, there, this cup, Buddha. And another friend wrote that a monk visiting Japan, told someone concerned about the first Tassajara fire and losing this endo, just pointed at the altar, Buddha, then pointed at the ashes, Buddha, and pointed at the woman who asked. And we all know this isn't easy. I mean, this is why we practice, so that we can have some space to hold that. And another friend wrote about a talk that Sojin had given many years ago about impermanence in response to some event like this.

[09:41]

And in the Q&A, the student was distressed at the fragility of the circumstances they were in at the time. She said that Sojin said in a very strong voice, it's all right, it has to be all right if all of this place burns down tomorrow. And he saw all the distressed faces in the zendo and he said, that's right, it has to be all right. So everything changes. The practice will continue. Our practice is not dependent on circumstances. But how do we understand Sojin's words, it has to be all right, or it is all right? That's really important.

[10:44]

Because some things we know aren't all right. So how can we hold all right and not all right together? in a whole way, in a wholehearted way, in a whole bodied way. Not having our very tender, painful human feelings just take us over completely or at least if they come and take us over completely, to not give them solidity and try to make them permanent, or to not think they're permanent, or to not act out of some idea of permanence. This is the koan of being a human being, of being alive, is how do we hold this both and,

[11:57]

This, you know, permanence. I wake up as myself every morning and I recognize each of you and, you know, you're reliably there and this place is reliably here. This is part of my permanent world. And yet everything changes, sometimes slowly and sometimes faster than we can take in. At the Chusot ceremony yesterday, the three main themes that kept coming up, because clearly they were things that we had spoken about during the practice period, were fear, vulnerability, and tenderness. I don't know about the theme of the practice period, but what was deeply worked into it was practice in the body, being in the body.

[13:04]

This is the heart of our practice. This is a body practice. How do we live in this precious, tender, fragile, vulnerable human body with all that happens, you know, with all that we experience and stay open and tender in the positive sense, not closing but staying open. So today is the third No Kings Day. Somehow this seemed to me like the perfect transition here. I was just going to talk about things related. And this happened yesterday. So this is our lives, right?

[14:12]

We had some plan, and then something happens, something big or small, or it's not working the way we thought it would as of yesterday. And a couple days ago, I was out on Russell Street, and I heard all this honking. And I was, like, really wondering, what's all the honking going on, like, down by Russell and MLK. And I was going for a walk, so I walked down there, and there's this tiny, joyful little protest. Seven or eight people on each side of the street, many of them older. And one woman had a little amplifier and a guitar, and she was singing folk songs. And people had signs that said something like, honk if you support peaceful protest. Everyone was honking.

[15:16]

And I wanted to honk too, but I couldn't. So when I got close to them, I just yelled, honk, honk. And I felt so uplifted and my heart opened. And as I continued walking down the street, I burst into tears. Just with the openness and the all of it-ness. I did not used to be able to do that. I did not. cry. Now it just happens really easily, but it's just like, it's like thunderstorms rather than an atmospheric river that's parked over you, you know, every once in 10 years or something. And I'm so grateful for this practice that I can allow the passing thunderstorms to come through. And I'm still somewhat embarrassed by them, but not so much anymore. I don't really care. But it was something about, you know, this... It's like just these people coming out.

[16:32]

I guess it was organized through, or they organized through Indivisible. But just these people coming out and just doing something and doing it together and bringing joy and kindness, not an ounce of anger. And because I've been thinking about all of this for some time now, specifically, my own role as abbot, you know, what's my role within the sangha in terms of what's going on in the world? How do I support all of you? What is my role? What is Berkeley Zen Center's role? I've been talking with the Berkley Zen Center board about this as well, you know, like, how does this work, you know?

[17:34]

Okay, so I'm Abbott now, so I can sign things for myself. It's going to be, like, signed on behalf of Berkley Zen Center, then we need to check it out. I'm just feeling my way, but I had, you know, I had too many thoughts. Too many ideas. There was too much input. Every day brought additional new input, which was not just like the news, thoughts about how to deal with things, approaches, what you can do, what's useful, what's useless, what's effective, what's not. Everybody has their own ideas. as I just felt my way in my body, into all of that, I realized that I needed to ground in my own clarity, my own understanding, my own view, my own vision.

[18:45]

And I realized that for me, whatever I do needs to be completely grounded in Dharma. And of course, there are many, many ways to do that. But that feels to me, regardless of what anyone's doing individually, to do it with the mind of practice makes a difference. And Dogen said once, I think it was in... about how the head cook practices, the practice of the head cook. And this was put up in the city-centered kitchen for many years. It may still be there. He said, if you don't have a mind of the way, all this hard work is just useless. External circumstances, that's about one's own practice, clearly, because many things can be effective in the world, even though...

[19:56]

you're suffering and the people around you are suffering to make it happen. It just occurred to me, parents probably experience you give all out for your kids, and you may not always have a mind of practice, but you're just working to help your kid grow up, you know, and to be solid as a person as much as they can be. But how do we hold? How do we hold? So mostly what I've been reflecting on is that I only know where I am right now. And then I have conversations with some people about what their own view is or what their world is. So I'm aware that there are many people in the Sangha who are active in working in the world, for democracy, for many, many things.

[21:10]

And I'm aware that some of those people don't particularly want that to be something that's talked about here, from the Dharma seat. Because for them, Berkeley Zen Center is a place of refuge. It's a place to be encouraged and to take a little break from that because their lives are deeply involved in this kind of work. And others want Berkeley, and some people want Berkeley Zen Center to be really directly involved. And some people, this just isn't something they really want to hear about. They have other affinities, and everyone has their own affinities. And I don't know that we can hold them all together at one time. Really exploring how do we hold all of this together? How do we hold together as a sangha?

[22:15]

It's taken me years to hold all the different parts of myself together as a whole, And the forms and the place and the practice go such a long way toward doing that. But I really want to hear more from all of you in a variety of ways. Because I only have this one person's ideas. And I learned so much in dialogue with other people, hearing other people's experience, hearing other people's views and actions and where they've learned from, what makes relationship and sangha so alive.

[23:21]

a lot of the things I had planned to say today at another time, but I'd really like to open it up for Q&A early and hear from you about any part of what I've said today or anything that you just want to bring forward because, again, for me, I think the Q&A is my favorite part for me because, yeah, because it's in dialogue. It's one to one. And we go on from there. So if anyone has any questions. And Shoray is going to bring a mic around, if anyone wants to. Good morning, and thank you. As you were talking at the very end, I started to remember about the monks' walk, the monks who went from Washington kind of culminated in them leading basically a mindfulness meditation on the steps of the National Cathedral, which was just, I was like dumbfounded, you know?

[24:37]

And I wonder, that's what I wish we could do, something, because there was nothing political, you know, there was... It was a statement they were making of some kind, which was beyond words to me. And it wasn't apolitical. It wasn't political. It wasn't apolitical. They didn't have the signs. But I think it was very inspiring for people and moving. And so that's what our practice is for us. For me, my practice is something, and your practice is something to inspire me to keep going. I just wondered, I don't know, I'm not saying we need, we should take a walk or something, but I just wish we could do something together inspiring like that. Yeah. And after this, some of us are going to go take a walk starting at Cal and yeah, that's part of the No Kings.

[25:40]

Thank you. I would love to do something like that. has his hand up online great hi clay and hi everyone online sounds like you can hear me i can great i've been in the room when this discussion has come up a few times and i realized that for me the most important thing for my roshi to do is to reflect the depth and beauty of the practice and to embody the depth and beauty and reflect it back to me and our community. What has that looked like to you when you see the depth and beauty of our practice reflected? Well, it's a feeling and it's about an embodied sensibility.

[26:45]

So I think... what you were saying about embodying the practice in everything that you do, I believe it also has something to do with an inner calm and trust in our way. I was thinking about it, really. I think that's why people come to Berkusen, is for that. It's for the practice and there's something mysterious and deep about it. And that's what I've always loved about practice. And I've been a little bit, I thought because it's quite intangible, but here I am. Thank you. Thank you. You know, there's a lot of me that feels very settled and calm

[27:46]

But I also feel a little unsettled. There's just been a lot in the last days. And I think that's part of what practice really has to offer is that this body awareness that in a sense we can be doing two things at one time. You know, can hold ceremony and the The forms, you know, and you may have many forms in your life. Some people do Tai Chi or yoga. And just starting into that practice can evoke a whole calmer way of being just in the body. The body is getting messages that things are okay. Even though other parts of the body and maybe the mind are going... And these can coexist. I don't mean comfortably, exactly.

[28:53]

But we can create space for a lot more than we think we can or have. And a lot of that is just by us. I remember realizing that... Lying on my back with my knees up like on a chair or on the couch, something about that, like visually looking straight up and just feeling the support on my back rather than under my feet, just something started letting go. So that became a touchstone. Everyone has their own. Yours might be visual, they might be auditory. Someone recently was talking about the importance of birds, like listening to birds was kind of like, okay. Listen. Thank you, Clay, for bringing that up.

[30:03]

Anyone else? Linda Roshi, thank you very much for your talk today and for giving it today on a Saturday and today at this particular confluence of events. I really appreciate it. I didn't raise my hand up on Lori's comment, but I want to start by just saying for those of you who might be looking for someplace to go this afternoon. There are a group of Buddhists who are going to walk peacefully together as Buddhists and chant together and stand together. If that's something that's meaningful to you, you could speak to me or Laura about where that's happening. So what I wanted to say in response to your question, which I really appreciate, is I started as a Vipassana practitioner a long time ago. And there was something missing in that beautiful practice for me. It was so valuable, but it was missing a vow for me.

[31:09]

It was missing a call to respond directly to the suffering of the world right now, no matter how imperfect I was. And that really touched my heart deeply. What has made it possible for me slowly and in a more and more open way, to be able to do that effectively is the ground of the teachings that talk about impermanence, that talk about, that root my life in something that's much bigger, much more universal than the particularities that we work in at any particular time, whether it's my personal suffering or a catastrophe like losing... a home or a Zendo. One of our revered late teachers here, when asked about this, how do I do this, she said, May Lee Scott said, don't ever think anything is out of place.

[32:17]

It took me years to understand what that really meant in a deep way, but it allows me to see that no matter what It's okay on one level, as Linda was beginning to talk about. It's okay because things just are what they are. What's important is the next thing, which is, what do I do? And that's, I can think of something and respond because of this practice. And it would be heart-wrenching to me. if we did not speak about this practice as a way of opening to the suffering of the world, the first noble truth. Thank you. Yeah, the okay or the all right or not out of place. You know, if we're hearing that from

[33:24]

a more dualistic point of view, then it also implies the judgment that it's okay, that it's all right, that it's happening, which is very separate from this is. It's all right. It's all right. I've come to think of it as what's all right is I'm fundamentally because I can be with this thing that is incredibly painful. hurtful, harmful, whatever it is, I can find the space within myself to let it in and let all the feelings in and let all the thoughts in and find myself not being in denial that it's happening, not trying to make it something that it's not. And... in the absolute, in non-duality.

[34:28]

It also includes duality. I mean, if non-duality didn't include duality, it would be dualistic. But we don't live in the absolute. I mean, we do. That's not where we live our lives. So in the place where we live our life, we're holding the view of the absolute and those moments when we touch into that in a very deep way. But to take our bodhisattva vows, we cannot put down the discerning mind. The exact thing that we're trying to put down when we sit, we have to take up when we get off this very safe contained place of being on the cushion. So being able to Put it down and put it is quite a skill because when we're sitting and it's very spacious and it's very open, it's like, I want to stay here forever.

[35:38]

This is really good. It's changing. No, it's not. It's not. I can get it back. I was sitting just like this before. So many versions of this, but that's a prescription for suffering. Our own and people around us, you know. but we also need discernment because we can't treat different things in different ways. So, I mean, this is an ongoing koan for me, not to feel it, but to know how to talk about it more skillfully. You know, so I, you know, I get why all the koans are just like, you know, blows and shouts and, you know, putting a shoe on your head and walking out the door. Because it's hard to... It's hard to... R.H. Blythe once said, it's not hard to talk about Zen. It's not hard to write about Zen.

[36:41]

What's hard is to write by Zen. To express from the inside. Although I think poetry and... You know, I mean, there's ways of pointing, but it's always, we're expressing to others. So it's always a dance. It's always an interaction. Even if you're writing and it goes, you're still somehow imagining who might be reading. And it's always so rewarding when people write back and they say, that really touched me. It's like, oh, we connected. Because that's so much of what we want to do in this life, is to really connect. Okay. Linda, Shoray, Jeff, and Michael, and what's your name? Barack. Hi.

[37:42]

Hi, good morning. Well, you're not going to be able to satisfy everybody. So some people want to bring their engagement with the world into this space, and some people, as you said, want to call this space a refuge from all that, even outside. Some people think that to imagine that refuge means shutting out the vast violence and suffering that for example, we are paying for, is what kind of refuge. Some people think that the word political is almost identical with sin. Keep it out of here. So, since you can't satisfy everybody, I hope you, I know you will be aware of the danger of seeking

[38:51]

not to offend anybody, ever. I've tried so hard to do that in my life, and it really hasn't worked. I mean, it's worked better for other people than it has for me, for sure. I'm really trying to be done with that. When I know where I stand, the discernment is much easier because it's not clouded by not wanting to offend, disappoint, hurt, have you go away. This is just my expression, and I own it. But I'm also so aware that my expression, my world, myself, is completely interdependent with you and all of you. And that enriches me deeply. And it's so hard, whoa, to comprehend all that. Still to find a way to act and speak. So I trust you pretty much.

[39:55]

Thanks. I hope I'm worthy of it, at least some of the time. Thank you for your talk, Linda Roshi. A phrase I've heard you say before is have your feelings or they will have you. What is that? What is... What is to have one's feelings, and what is when one's feelings have us? I could give you one. I learned how to have my feelings. Something very, very difficult had happened to me, and I was staying with a friend for several days. And after a few days, this person said, we need to talk about these things that you're doing, which I was... idea what I was doing at all. I had no idea what they were talking about. And my friend said, you know, now I'm getting even more upset that you have no idea what's happening because you're like not in touch.

[41:03]

So that's an example. Later, I could have my feelings, which meant they came and went and they were manifesting in my body and mind and thoughts. And And I was getting familiar with them. But if we're not willing to have them, then they kind of have us. And we have no idea how. And I will say that's one end of the spectrum. The other end of the spectrum is people who have a lot of feelings and act them out and just keep going with them. So neither end is really great. They just have different variations and probably better if you're in one and want to be more calm or more open to go to the other. But yeah, it means that you're not in relationship with them. I think having your feelings doesn't mean that you own them. It means that you're in some kind of living with the flux of our body, mind, feelings, emotions, as opposed to

[42:14]

having them take us over or trying to make them go away. I think it was Jeff, Michael, and Barack. I wanted to play a little bit off of sort of what Clay said, because what was coming up for me while you were talking was And how do I view your role here? Is that when I come to practice, I create a container around myself inside of which I practice. And I do all of the things that practice does. I breathe. And I see. And all of the other manifestations of that practice. We create a container together. And that is the Sangha. And then we move. Sometimes... a thousand hands each with an eye, knowing instinctively what to do.

[43:16]

Sometimes not, just seeking refuge from the uncomfortable or the trials of the world. One of the things I look to you for is to anchor together. Because in that quiet space, when we're practicing together, and we don't say, do this, do that, don't do this, don't do that, We find that place inside and we touch that practice place inside that holds the absolute and the phenomenal from which behavior arises. I can come in and be thoroughly confused about who I am, what I want, and what I'm going to do. And just by settling and being together, something else happens. When I first came in, I wanted to live in the absolute. I never wanted to come back to the phenomenal. And it was a painful lesson to figure out you can't do that. But in the absolute, there is some guidance. And somewhere in that mystery is how we hold that it's all right and that it's not all right in the same hand.

[44:19]

I thank you for what you do because I find those things in you and I'm grateful. I want to say that I also feel so held by the whole sangha. I mean, all of you make me and allow me to do what I do. It's, yeah. There's two more people. There's three more people. What? Is it a question? Okay, then there are several people ahead of you, but I'll take you next. Okay, if we get that far. Michael. Thank you, Roshi. I think with everything that's come up, whether it's the fire and the zendo, the tragedy that we're all facing and having to know kings for, it really seems to beg us to pay attention to the immediacy of practice.

[45:26]

It's kind of taken its arm and swept everything off the table. It's like, here, this is happening. There's no time for frivolousness. I've also been thinking lately, too, that things like philosophy or even theology are just, they're a privilege of people who have time or who have full stomachs. What I keep coming back to, and I do have a point, I promise, what I keep coming back to is I hear refuge from a lot of the comments and questions in your talk. I really like Dr. Alexander Berzin in the Tibetan tradition translates refuge as safe direction. And for me, safe direction is vow. It's the bodhisattva vow. It's the vow to live for the benefit of all beings.

[46:30]

And that to me seems like if we can hold vow during the... times and places when we do have that privilege we can think of frivolous things we can care about what's on tv or how our hair looks then we have the muscle memory during the tough places so i just wanted to share that thank you uh thank you for your talk linda roshi I'm on a new I've been coming for a few weeks and I just wanted to express my gratitude for the teachers here and to name that for me personally coming here as a place of refuge. It's been really impactful to hear the link made to what's happening in the world and what's happening in the sendo.

[47:34]

Yeah, one of the ways I consider practice is as an act of witnessing, collective witness, collective being. And I think to meet everything that's going on in the world through and with a community of people who are engaged has just been really meaningful. So I want to say thank you to the collective container of the sangha. We have a question online. Karen, hello. Hi, Linda and everybody. Nice to see you. I can't even remember what I was going to ask because I've been so engrossed in what I'm hearing. It's been really a lively conversation in a really positive way. What was coming up for me when you were talking earlier about just that there being a lot and not being able to kind of have it all in the same place at the same time, it made me think of the, I think it's the mirror samadhi, like a massive fire.

[48:46]

Don't turn away. Turning and touching are both wrong because it is like a massive fire. Yeah. Yeah. And that was something I heard when I first came into my practice 15 years ago when I was dealing with some suffering. like we all deal with stuff. But that just, it keeps coming back to me for the past 15 years and most prominently right now. So thank you. Thank you for your leadership. Thank you. What came up for me as you were bringing that up was how do we sit in the middle of the... Not to touch it, not to turn away, but to sit in the middle of it and... both let it burn us up completely and also remain untouched in the deeper sense, not to try to be untouched, but to burn and be incombustible at the same time.

[49:50]

There are many, many metaphors for finding our way through this, you know, at first very narrow space, that then widens out through being able to touch more regularly and more deeply through a whole wide range of experiences. Let's see, Jeremiah. Oh, no, we still have a little bit of time. Great. Thank you for your talk. I wanted to say that, you know, I have found myself in different places relative to this conversation. You know, like, what was I seeking when I came? And in the beginning, it was definitely about refuge, although I used the word oasis in the beginning.

[50:58]

And it was a way for me to get away from everything that was super uncomfortable and causing me to cry in unpredictable situations and ways. And yeah, this place was absolutely a way to get away from all of that. And I would like sit and just like cry a little bit in here you know and I remember maybe a couple weeks ago I heard someone else's tears and I thought are those my am I crying and I was like no it's not me that's somebody else so and now you know it became like a way it was a way for me to get away from everything

[52:00]

and i just valued coming in the gate and like bowing to someone and having that like anything to communicate that was felt great to me um and then um it becoming more of like a place for me to try and figure out how to sit zazen when i'm not here without even crossing my legs when i'm at work like how can I bring my mind to where my body is no matter what I'm doing all day long you know so it became more like a way to think about that so I've moved you know and I think like it's impossible to escape politics like this clock you know the porridge we had this morning is political like we can't really escape politics but I know what people are talking about you know, they don't want to be hit over the head with someone else's politics.

[53:01]

But I think that, like, have different affinity groups and find things they all agree on, like love and compassion. I think, you know, no matter what affinity group you belong to, love and compassion is probably a core idea for you. And the last thing I'll say is that I love Kept off balance. So coming here has exposed me to teachers. And I've spent a long time, you know, a few decades, like people coming to me and asking me questions. And I really love the ability to talk to someone and have them keep me off balance. Like not tell me, what they think I want to hear, but telling me how to loosen my grip on something when I'm tightening it.

[54:08]

Thank you. One thing I just want to mention from the body point of view and body practice, Master Sheng Yen, Chinese Chan teacher someone asked him I think what is like lay practice or what is practice for a lay person and he said regulate your life and I've been thinking about that a lot and how with so much more going like regulating my life and priorities has become really key but also regulating our bodies and that's really that's That kind of information is really out there in the world right now. If you haven't encountered, you know, what's available about the vagus nerve and how to calm your nervous system, you know, just type in regulate my nervous system and you'll get very helpful things.

[55:13]

One of the most simple helpful things is what's called the window of tolerance, which looks like, you know, one of those bell curves. And in the middle is where practice is actually possible. This is why I'm saying this. is where practice is actually possible. When we're in overwhelm or freak out, we're just, basically our practice is trying to get back to a place where we can engage in practice more deeply. We're just trying to hold on. We're trying to not make it worse. That's a big deal. When we're feeling in those, to not make it worse. That's enough for the moment. Don't feed it. Don't go find your best friend who's going to tell you everything that you want to hear in this moment. Go find that other friend who might throw you a little off balance or support you in different ways. Whatever it is, you're trying to get back from overwhelm and from shutdown and depression and that overwhelming fatigue. Neither one of those are so conducive to practice.

[56:14]

So your practice is just to try to come back in the middle and The body and the nervous system is such a big part of that. Your thoughts can help you, but your thoughts are often running amok when you're in a vault. So the more you can just take care of the body, the more it can help your mind as well. Marie. I read something recently. that I found very helpful and that I felt in a way kind of synthesized or summarized practice for me in those difficult moments. And it talked about the difference between experiencing versus experiencing it as a challenge and to really understand what is challenging me right now and

[57:17]

That shifted a lot for me, that when I can take something that feels, when I realize I'm feeling threatened and why, and then transform it into how can I see this as a challenge and understanding what is my personal challenge in this. And it's been really useful. And I think that is also what practice does, at least for me. Thank you. And we're at time. Thank you so much for being here and for listening and for your questions and your comments. I always learn so much in so many ways. Thank you. Things are numberless I vow to awaken with them solutions are impossible

[58:19]

Thank you. I don't know about the best game to get me to start up in a platform place. I don't know if I had enough of that, but I didn't want to be so bad. I don't know if I was just going to get me to stop the street past the world. I don't know if I had enough of it was just a big part of it. It didn't get me to stop the family, I don't remember the place. I didn't try that, but it was too great and worth it. Just to get me to show that I never get me to stop the street. Thank you.

[59:46]

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