I hope that everyone can hear. I'm not sure that you can, but hold up your hand if you can't hear me. Last week, we had a conference, a five-day conference at Green Gulch, which was called something like Development of American way of Vinaya or something, of Vinaya, and many scholars from universities across the country came, and some leaders of communities came, and it was a very nice conference, very lively.

[01:18]

I should explain to you what Vinaya is. Vinaya, strictly speaking, means the rules of conduct in a monastery. And broadly speaking, it means rules of conduct for people who practice Buddhadharma. And there were represented many different schools of Buddhadharma because Unlike 10 or 15 years ago, when scholars were not supposed to believe in what they taught, most of the Buddhist scholars today in universities actually practice Buddhism, some form of Buddhism. And so not only do they study in a scholarly way, but most of them have a practice or have come to

[02:26]

a study through a practice, either Zen practice or Tibetan, a lot of them through Tibetan practices, and some through traditional Theravada practice. Ten years ago, it was people who were scholars of Buddhism didn't admit that they practiced because it was frowned upon by the universities to actually be involved in what you were studying objectively. Maybe that's a good idea, but it lent a different kind of air to the conference because everyone was speaking from some experience rather than just from some knowledge.

[03:28]

And so there was represented everything from very strict monks practice, Burmese monks practice, in which the monks practice 235 precepts, which is their practice, rules of conduct. And on the other side was the Jodo Shinshu, which is a school of Buddhism in Japan, who don't practice precepts at all. And then there were the other schools in between, like the Tibetan and Zen school and so forth. And everyone shared and got along very well with each other. And many good ideas were shared about what is American practice.

[04:39]

What is the place of Vinaya in America? How do American Zen students, or not Zen students, but Buddhist students conduct themselves? As you know, in the history of Buddhism in America, in the last 25 years or so, it looks like American Buddhists haven't been practicing precepts very well. So I want to talk about this a little bit. In Buddha's time, Shakyamuni Buddha's time, There was the teacher who was a very venerated person and he attracted many students to him.

[05:40]

And being so close to the teacher, there wasn't a set of rules of conduct. As a matter of fact, when Buddha met someone who inquired about the Dharma, He said, come and follow. Come follow me. And that was initiation. Very simple. And when something came up, some kind of problem came up in the community, the monks would bring it, or lay people, would bring it to the Buddha. And they would explain what the problem was. And then Buddha would discuss it and say, well, we won't do this. I don't think that the monks should do this kind of thing. And that became a kind of mode of conduct for people to, a standard of conduct for people to follow.

[06:46]

And so by the time Shakyamuni Buddha passed away, there were many, many of these rules of conduct that were prescribed for the community. There were some major rules and some minor rules. It was a celibate community for the monks. So, not having sex was a major rule for the monks. And not lying, and not stealing, and not bragging about your accomplishments. four major rules which would lead to expulsion from the community if they were transgressed. And then there were many minor orders of rules.

[07:50]

And when Buddha was dying, just before he was dying, just before he died, Ananda, his disciple Ananda, was talking to him and he said, what should we do after you pass away? Should we follow all the precepts? And Buddha said, well, maybe so. He said, should we follow the major precepts, the minor precepts, as well as the major precepts? And Buddha said, well, I think you should follow the major precepts, but maybe you don't have to follow the minor precepts. Exactly. You know, you can decide whether or not you should do that. So after Buddha died, they had a conference and all the all the elders and arhats came to it and they discussed what they would do.

[08:57]

What did Buddha say? What was his teaching? And they tried to put it all together so they could have some comprehensive idea to go forth with, something that they could agree on. And when it came to the precepts, Ananda said, well, I asked him about the precepts And he said, we should follow the major precepts, but maybe not all the minor precepts. And they said to him, well, which minor precepts did he say you shouldn't follow? And he said, I forgot to ask him. So the leader of the community, who seems to have been Mahakashapa, said, well, since you didn't find out, and since we don't know, We'll just follow all of them." So that's what happened.

[09:58]

So they ended up with something like 235 or 250, depends on which school you're talking about. There were many schools of Buddhism, even in Buddha's time, just after Buddha's time. There were the so-called 18 schools and maybe more, which had different ways of understanding Buddha's teaching. So the orthodox, so-called orthodox school, of which the Theravada is the last remaining one, has always followed Buddha's 250 or 235 precepts as their way of life. So if you go to any of the Southeast Asian countries, There are the Vinaya schools of Theravada monks which practice those 250 precepts.

[11:03]

That's their life work. But when Buddhism traveled to other countries, to the northern countries, to China, and to Japan, and Tibet, people found it very difficult to practice all those rules because many of them only are applicable to the locale, to India. So a lot of them have to do with how you wear your clothing and what kind of clothing you wear and how you eat. In India, people eat with their fingers. In China, people eat with chopsticks. In America, we eat with knives and forks. So the rules of how to eat with your fingers doesn't make much sense in the United States.

[12:05]

And it didn't make that much sense in China either, although some Japanese Rinzai school in Japan eats with their fingers. So the vinea became kind of transformed as it went through various countries. And in Japan, the vinea ended up, the Japanese never really accepted the vinea school called the ritsu in Japan. There is still a ritsu school in Japan, but very tiny. And the Japanese developed their own kind of vinea, which is what we call precepts.

[13:09]

Condensing, you know, all those minor rules into something manageable, like 16 precepts. Some people feel that the Japanese don't care about precepts, that it's not part of Japanese thinking to think about precepts one by one, which has some truth in it, but doesn't mean that Japanese people are not concerned with conduct, because if you think about it, Japanese people are very concerned about conduct, maybe more than anyone else. So there's always been a kind of controversy, you know, about if you're Buddhist and Buddha said you should practice 250 precepts, that's Buddha's words and we shouldn't go against that.

[14:20]

This is what the representative of the Theravada school said. These are Buddha's words. This is what Buddha asked us to do. So how can we change them? So whether they're applicable or not applicable, good or bad, they just practice them. And there's some value, some merit in that. As a matter of fact, it's very Zen-like. It doesn't matter whether the rule is good or bad. Just do it. It's very Zen-like. And even though Zen is way on the other side, There's something about it that's very much the same in spirit. Just watch the windows. It doesn't matter whether they're dirty or not. We wash the windows in order to wash our mind. And you can practice a precept that seems useless just in order to

[15:22]

Polish your mind. Polish your behavior. Let go of judgment into right and wrong and what's utility. We're so utilitarian that if something doesn't have some utilitarian reason, we think it's useless. So, Zen precepts... In Japan, Saicho, from the Tendai school, was instrumental in bringing about the 16 precepts which most... which the Zen school and some other schools in Japan follow as precepts. When we were starting Zen Center,

[16:27]

in the beginning and back in the early 60s. I remember very well Suzuki Roshi didn't talk much about precepts. It was just like in Buddha's time, when there was a teacher in a small community and you didn't need a lot of rules. You know, when the teacher is gone, then you start thinking about how how to make the community work, and so you start imposing a lot of rules, because rules kind of take the place of the original inspiration, which is one way of perpetuating the community. So when Suzuki Roshi was alive in the 60s and 70s, he didn't say much about rules, and he didn't impose rules very much on us. And he was always saying, we shouldn't get rule-bound.

[17:33]

We shouldn't conduct our life just by rules. We should think about what we're doing. The rules or conduct should come out of our life of zazen and should be integrated with our whole life. I think this is more a Japanese way, actually, rather than imposing lots of rules to make, to bring forth our inner request for integrity through our practice of zazen and our conduct in our daily life. so that zazen and our daily life all go together. So, Suzuki Roshi was, maybe had more integrity than anybody that we'd ever seen.

[18:47]

But he never talked about rules. He was just an example of how to have integrity in your life. So, integrity means integration. It means all of one piece. So, rather than imposing something on your life that what he called our inner request, inmost request, was our request for reality, to live our life in reality. And right conduct follows. If you live your life in the midst of reality, right conduct follows. So it wasn't that he was against precepts, but

[19:55]

precepts were in the background of our life rather than a set of rules to always think about. You know, about the time of Dogen Zenji, in the 13th century, In Japan, this was a time of religious reform. And Shinran was one of the reformers, along with Dogen. And Shinran felt that he was a priest who studied very hard when he was young. And he came to the conclusion that it was not possible to find salvation in the old way, in the old Buddhist way of working, practicing, in order to find spiritual salvation.

[21:10]

You know, it was the time in the early 13th century, the time of Mappo. Mappo was the time of the degenerate dharma, when people felt that It was a kind of prediction, and a prediction that at that time nobody would be able to really find salvation through practice. So he developed his practice on chanting the name of Buddha, Amida Buddha, in order to be born in the Pure Land. and that there was no particular merit to trying to do right conduct. That's not quite right. But no particular merit in practicing to have salvation.

[22:15]

And that Amida Buddha would take care of you after death. So it became a kind of salvation by faith. And so this is one extreme kind of practice of Buddhism without precepts. But actually those people who practice Jodo Shinshu are very have lots of integrity, natural integrity. For one thing, they avoid the pitfall of arrogance. When you feel that you can do something on your own, then it's very easy to fall into arrogance. I'm doing this. I'm my own savior.

[23:18]

I have great ability. This is a kind of religious arrogance. So they completely did away with that. So it doesn't even rise up, which I think is very important. So each school of Buddhism has a different way, a little different way of approaching conduct. And each way is very good. People argue about which is right and which is wrong, but actually each one is right. if done wholeheartedly, sincerely. Some people need lots of rules in order to keep them in line, kind of like jail. And other people only need some guidelines. Some people are very creative, and other people just need to be told what to do.

[24:23]

I think in America, Suzuki Roshi, I think his idea was very good. His way was very good for a saint. But I think in America it's obvious that we need to study Vinaya and we need to take our precepts seriously. You know, it's not that we don't already have precepts. I think as Americans we have very strict precepts, not that we pay attention to them always, but I think we have a sense of, innate sense of right and wrong, and how to conduct ourselves. But greed takes us over, and anger takes us over, And delusion takes us over.

[25:31]

And we become rather helpless. We just get swept away. One of the... I think in America, we really get swept away with greed. That's obvious. But even though we know better, we tell ourselves that it's okay. I noticed that before the Second World War, greed was not something that people condoned, even though I did not say that there weren't greed people, but it was not condoned. And then after the Second World War, little by little, people started condoning greed and actually making it kind of righteous activity. And if you weren't alive at that time, you haven't experienced the transition.

[26:39]

But that period from 1945 to now was just this expanding condoning of that greed is okay. And it's just been in that last period of time that that's happened. And so it's hard for us to see ourselves because we're so into it. What we do today, we wouldn't have thought, people wouldn't have thought of doing 30 years ago. So we kind of let ourselves do this thing and without checking it, we just kind of let it happen in the name of progress.

[27:54]

So in our Zen practice, precepts, there are 16 precepts. The first three are to follow Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. Buddha includes everything. and dharma is buddha's teaching or the truth or the law or the way things actually are and sangha are the people who practice buddha's way in a narrow sense but sangha is everyone in a big sense so The main precept is really one precept.

[29:13]

And that one precept includes all precepts. And that one precept is to bring forth Buddha mind, or be Buddha. Bring forth this Buddha mind which exists in every one of us, as every one of us. This is the main precept. And Dharma is included in that precept. of the law and the people. And then there are three pure precepts which are very general. Don't do it as harmful, do it as not harmful, and help everyone.

[30:19]

Turn your life over to the common good. And then there are 10 specific precepts. Not to kill, not to steal, not to misuse sexuality, not to lie, not to intoxicate yourself or others, and not to slander others or talk about other people, and not to exalt yourself and put others down, and not to withhold, not to keep the goodies for yourself, not to be stingy, and not to indulge in anger, and not to speak ill of the three treasures, which is Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha.

[31:23]

So those are the precepts that are our guidelines. So the first precept is just be Buddha. How do you do that? Precepts help you to do that. Precepts sound negative, like don't kill, don't steal, but each precept also has a positive side. Don't kill means nurture life. Actually, if we don't, instead of thinking about the precepts in a negative way, it's very good to think about them in a positive way, and to take care of life. Instead of, you see, don't take what is not given. But we should realize that nothing belongs to us anyway.

[32:31]

Nothing really belongs to me. Whatever I have is just something that belongs to everyone and I happen to be wearing it or using it in some way. We're the caretakers of things in this life, although we really think that we own something, and we act as if we do. But nothing belongs to us, and everything belongs to us. So how we share the goods is very important. We can say, don't steal, but we can also say, share the goodies, share the goods, share what we have. And when it comes to sexuality, this is a big problem.

[33:33]

For monks, it's one thing, and for lay people, it's another. If you're not celibate, it means to be faithful in relationships. This is where most people get into trouble. And then, and so on and so forth, I don't want to go through all the precepts, But this is an ongoing study for Zen students, to find out the real meaning of precepts. And not just as some kind of restriction on our life. Actually, precepts are there to free our life.

[34:40]

Free our life doesn't mean we can just do whatever we want, but within a given situation, it means we know how to do the correct thing. When you know how to do the correct thing, it means you're touching reality. And when you're touching reality, that's the only kind of freedom there is. So does anybody have a question? What did the conference conclude? What did it conclude? It concluded that we were all good friends. And that we would continue our

[35:46]

I was studying. Yeah, meet again some other time. There was no conclusion to this conference, huh? If that's what you mean. Is there any discussion of sanctions? What do you mean by sanctions? I don't understand. Sanctions? What do you mean? If you have precepts in the community and if they're seen as rules and people don't follow them, how is that dealt with? There was a little talk about that. Let me think if I can... That wasn't talked about so much, actually. I think everybody handles that differently.

[36:51]

You know, in precepts, there's two ways to look at how you transgress a precept. One is that you break the precept. And the other is that it's called like staining the precept. Which means that you do something which is not right. But it doesn't put you outside of the situation. It doesn't set you outside. It's like something wrong, right? But if you break the precepts, maybe like breaking a bone or something, you have to mend it. So, this is like twisting, you know, and then you nurture yourself back.

[37:56]

So, I think there are very few precepts that our community would use to kick you out of the community, unless you did something really awful, you know. Mostly, you know, I think breaking the precept means like you're completely outside. It means you no longer are adhering to that precept. But most people, even though we break a precept, it doesn't mean that we're outside. We're still in it. And so it helps us to see what we've done. That's a big benefit of precepts is that when you transgress the precept or stain it, so to speak, it shows you what you've done.

[39:01]

To say you've broken the precept means you're outside, and you no longer relate to it. So, I think that's an important distinction. All of us are always breaking precepts. Every day we all break precepts. But if we know what the precepts are, we know we did that, then that's mindfulness and it helps us. So precept is a kind of help because it shows us where we're getting off and what we're doing. That makes us aware. That's the biggest help. You know, You can have the idea of a pure community and a community of pure beings. This is what the Vinaya is kind of set up in order to have a community of pure beings who avoid all these wrong things and do all the right things.

[40:09]

And they're in this little enclosure. But as Buddhism developed, it became clear that was not the only way that people lived. in practice. So practice became broader and more broader and the Mahayana created a practice within the world, not just in a monastery. So that means there has to be a different approach to precepts, to conduct. How do you exist in the world and still maintain conduct, right conduct. Very different aspect. So you can practice one way in a monastery, but when you go into the world, how are you going to do that? So you can't practice the Vinaya in the world. You have to know how to give and take and move.

[41:14]

And the precept has to be worked out on each moment. This is more like integrity. If you have this kind of integrity, then you understand how to act on each situation, given that you understand precepts. But you can't do it on every situation. You can't follow a rule on every situation, because it just doesn't work. Rules don't cover every situation, even if you have 500. See, this situation is number 462, you know. You look it up in your book, how you handle some situation. You can't do that. You have to respond right now. So this is real precepts.

[42:18]

Real precepts, as Suzuki Roshi used to say, are beyond words. Do you think teachers should be treated differently when it comes to precepts? Now that's a good question. Because some people think so. But you're asking me the question, right? I don't think so. So, if they break a precept in the community, it's going to be noticed more. That's right. It's noticed more if they're caught. But they should say so. So anyway, your teachers are breaking precepts every day. And you should know that. This one is breaking precepts every day. Sometimes I do the right thing and sometimes I do the wrong thing.

[43:24]

And that's our life. If you think that there's someone who always does the right thing, that's wrong and that's right. But within the right thing, there are wrong things and right things. And if you understand that this is the wrong thing I'm doing, this is the right thing I'm doing, then it's all right behavior. Because you acknowledge whatever it is that you're doing. And you can even be punished for it. But the right behavior is not in whether you did something right or wrong, but in the way you understand it. In your acknowledging of, this wasn't right behavior. But when you try to say, well, anything I do is right, that's automatically wrong behavior. Because we're always doing good and bad things. If you think that we're not always doing good and bad things, or that there's somebody in this world that's not doing good and bad things, this is not a human being.

[44:34]

Anybody that tries to pass themselves off as always doing the right thing is deluded. That person may be doing the right thing if they acknowledge that they're doing the wrong thing. Then it's the right thing. then they're always correct. Their position is always correct. So the main thing is that you always have the correct position. Yes, I did this right and I did that wrong. This is called integrity. If you have integrity, then you do wrong things and you do right things, and you acknowledge them both, because that's our life. But if you just want to be good, and you don't want to be bad, then you should get on the bottom and start over again. And most of the problems that we get into are not wanting to acknowledge because someone will punish us one way or another.

[45:50]

It's not good to let people know that I'm bad. because I'll get punished one way or another. If they don't punish me, I'll punish myself. And we do that all the time. We're our biggest punishers, as a matter of fact. So then we start taking it out on others. So it's better to acknowledge. When we meet an honest person, we love that person. So we want somebody that we can trust. If you want somebody that you can trust, it means that That person has to be... Are you talking about the 250, or are you talking about... 16.

[47:12]

I don't think about it. You don't think about it. Well, when you had your Ju-Kai, your layered mission, you took the 16 presets, right? You knew what you were doing, right? No one told you to do it, right? They're there. They're there for us, as guidelines. But we shouldn't be rule-bound, you know? It's good to be honest, but sometimes you have to be dishonest in order to be honest. Every rule has its exceptions. And if you get rule-bound, then it's as bad as not knowing the rules.

[48:15]

So, rules have to be honored and used with discretion. But they should help us to find our own way, not to just... not something to bind us. So it's getting a little late. Thank you very much.

[48:51]

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