Teachers, Disciples

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Serial: 
BZ-02818
Notes: 

#duplicate of 02819

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thank you good morning and i hear you all saying good morning back to me
hey mom really happy to be here and i'm thank you run for that introduction
i'm i'll amend a few things as i go
i'm
i'd like to start by doing something i don't usually do but i think it's a good practice especially here in montana that is to pay homage to the indigenous
i'm tribes and whose land i sit the blackfeet the chippewa cree
the sailors kootenay the crow the many tribes of the su dakota
we have many many tribes here
and
i'm just so happy to be a part of this i have enjoyed the silver lining of this pandemic getting to be with you all this past year and getting to see sojourns face full screen you know with his lovely beard and everything
all year that was a real gift for me
and i'm in a couple weeks i am part of the team that will talk about remembrances of surgeon
so i'm not going to speak so much about him and me today i'll leave that for them for then but i do want to talk about the wonderful on
the wonderful possibility of working with a teacher and the teacher student relationship and i want to use it rather broadly not just me and my teacher or you and your teacher or now we have and i'd like to extend our it's not up to me to welcome him by to
oh on say hello to hassan our new abbott and
name that and welcome him to the seat
i'm
and i was thinking of surgeon roshi and how his teacher passed pretty soon after he worked with him i think they were together only about seven years and for the next forty or so years he drew on suzuki roshi strength and wisdom
i'm never flagging in
i'm referring to his teaching and using his wisdom to inform his own practice
i have a theme for this talk it's partially the theme and they forgot where i got it but anyway it is in the master's disciple relationship the student is to trust in persevere in the teachers path
so in the master disciple relationship student is to trust and persevere in the teachers path
going forward i'll use teacher rather than master
a fraught term but we do master things
so to have a relationship with someone anyone that is in a teaching role for us is a really special gift it's quite a treasure
to find and sometimes it's are very direct and explicit search and sometimes it's accidental
it's easy to get enamored of people with a great deal of charisma and intelligence and passion
or sometimes if they're really aloof and makes you wanna kind of want something from them
i feel like in zen as we've faced that teachers are human
they don't always make us feel good
that this path is a path of reckoning in the way we really do have to face ourselves it's also a path of every dana's so in a way it's easy for them to me as a great paradox and i'm as i age and keep practicing and a little more
comfortable with that paradox as someone recently reminded me we don't always understand the world but we can love it
so
i'm going to skip that part i was thinking of how i came to be with sojourn and i'm like i said i'll talk more about this later but the image came to me of an arranged marriage sort of like you didn't really pay
the person they were sort of like circumstances brought them to you but after twenty five years do you love me it's i guess i love you
i have a great deal of love and respect for smell and i was thinking of fiddler on the roof and enjoying the fact that i didn't exactly
pick him
it may be he picked me i don't know but the connection is unmistakable and for those of us with a teacher it's unmistakable some of you on some of you may not have a teacher right now i know there's many new people that have been coming here or people who do
don't really even know sojourn
and that's okay his teaching can still live and there's all manner of possibility to work with someone
so
with sojourn gone where each going to find our way those of us who worked with him and those of us who are just hearing about him how we will go forward in our relationship with him and i think his model of how he kept suzuki roshi so closed is a good a good way to one
imagine our relationship going forward

is the sound okay i don't have
earphones i can use good
so i wanna tell a story of one of our chinese ancestors i don't understand her so well but she's really inspired me
her name is miao dao and she lived in song dynasty she was born in ten ninety and i i've taught on a couple of are you know talked about a couple of on and female ancestors and i have related more to them
i i i worked with petite chara and her drama and her loss and her sort of craziness spock to me and then ling xiao hu was a layman punks daughter who is very spunky and smart and devoted i could relate to miao dao is somewhere
one who has captured my imagination but i don't get her yet but i wanted to talk about her because of her relationship with her teacher
so she was born in central china ten ninety her family
i was very much in favor of education for everyone so the brothers and she
we're educated she had to first learn the ten thousand characters with a written language of chinese and after mastering that she studied confucianism and history poetry the classical literature and then she was also involved in the
homemaking arts took care the household learn music and she knew a lot about healing and healing herbs
and in salad his nails book the sentence she wrote about her was for her own pleasure she sat in meditation every night wrapped in silence
so the silence is very interesting to me her relationship to silence and how she moved through her life
this was at a time when foot binding was coming into fashion thereabouts and her family
decided not to have that happened for her and for a long time i thought foot binding was just you wrap the foot so it sort of doesn't grow it's not that it's pretty violent as many of you know they break a little girls foot and they hold it that way and it's meant to make her more attractive it also keeps her inside
doing the work that's needed whether it's
housekeeping or during out textiles or i'm cooking but they don't go far
am
she wrecked requested at the age of fifteen to ordain and her dad said let me think about it
she was a very quiet girl she wasn't week but she was small and just very contained and trying to get an image of her
because she's in a fairly big household
oh
she goes to the palace to work her aunt worked in the palace they lived near the capital of the song dynasty think it was chi fung
and she worked in the palace and it was a very and it's hard to imagine now because i'm in this house by myself most the time or walking outside and the grocery stores the most bustle i get these days like many of you she was in a palace and was filled with people and officials and court dozens and just a like probably
a city within a city and she was there to light lamps in them in the evening and extinguish them in the morning trim the wigs take care of the oil or whatever however the lamps were then
and she because she was one of the sort of servant type girls she could sort of disappear in the palace and sally says she
lived in an oceanic silence a silence that was not the opposite of speaking a silence in which speaking could not be imagined
so on i think of hers having some depth of experience that maybe isn't described are named in the story about her but i'm very drawn to her this small young men
agitation loving girl
so at age twenty after five years in the palace she asked her father again she said i've done my duty may i please ordain he said yes i don't know who she attained whether why she left but like shakyamuni she hit the road and she traveled in with various teachers and
worked with them on
i'm not sure who she found her what she learned but she ended up in a town that was kind of a gutted town it had been used to manufacture charcoal for a long time and then it was gutted and people were harvesting coal other the hillside it was dirty
she often had sit on her face people looked worn and beaten down
it is not clear to me why she stayed there or what she did there probably wrapped herself in silence every night but for a long time she just started wondering is there even something known as awakening am i just what am i doing
and i wonder what she was doing she was in like this hell realm of a town and maybe something about it
i'm brought forth the suffering that leads some of us to practice some of us come to practice because of suffering some because we have an idea of awakening some because we don't have anything better to do i don't know it's up to us to figure out why we come and if we don't know why we come it's okay just
good that we're here
so she meets up with a master called jingle jingle yao jing liao who was on mount joy from chimney owl was a dharma heir of hunger the school of quiet illumination which is related to our soto way
she joined his monastery where there were hundreds of students
and she joined this practice period which was a very strict at this period she had to make a vow to be there
and you would think the school of quiet illumination would be right up her alley
and one day during the practice period a guest teacher name dark week's song gao dog we'd zongo doubt we
it was kind of a rinzai prodigy he already had the purple robe even though he was only as old as she was at this point in time they're both about forty four years old so this is thirty years of her life has gone by where she wanted to ordain and she traveled for a long time
without a teacher without specific teaching i don't know how long she was in that town
at some point when she was in that town she heard that rebels from the north had taken over kaifeng the capital of the song dynasty then and that was the beginning of some collapse that was happening she never heard about her family again after that
so time to find a new family so dally comes into this practice period into the silent illumination practice period
and he gives a lecture
no doubt we was a student and dharma heir of you on whoo hoo many of us know was the compiler of the blue cliff record so here is the dharma heir of the one who
a rinzai teacher probably pretty i don't know pretty sexy and
miao dao leaves the practice period to go with him
she breaks her vow she leaves the practice period
and she goes off to practice with doubt we so after thirty years of i don't know if it was really searching or just dwelling and quiet she goes with this rinzai master
she requests entry three times from him she makes bows and offers incense finally
he says please sit down
she sits and all of a sudden the words poor out
just read you this paragraph in kind of this is a girl who we feel like for thirty years we haven't even heard her voice and all of a sudden
she says
i am here it seems the only reason to be anywhere to investigate the great matter
it seems to me that we get old and die with such astonishing speed with such pain and birth and death cities appear and disappear just like that families vanish this endless cycle seems urgent me but i i still don't even know my own mind please help me please teach me
me

so this begins a sort of new era in her life where she's talking and she and dog we are talking all the time she meets with him sometimes they go deep into the night and they're conversing about all manner of things sometimes he sits in lecture
years her sometimes they talk about demons and gods and maybe some of that sort of more cultural aspects of whatever religions are floating around in china at that time they talk about the mind and the labyrinth and meditation
and she enjoys these talks it seems but she it said she still did not know the base of her own mind may love this phrase the what does it mean for us to not know the base of our own mind
when did not harm a he has a book called transformation at the base where he talks about the eight consciousnesses transformation at the base where is our liberation where does it happen in us does it been just in us is it is it is
a singular thing can we do this by ourselves
so she's pleading with him for the key like please help me please give me the key i know you know
he laughed at her and sends her away
and some one time she comes in desperation and doubly says i don't know what to tell you at some point you will you reach a point where you can't use your mind
so he gives her this con moto said it is not mind it is not buddha it is not a thing
how do you understand this
it is not mind it is not buddha it is not a thing how do you understand this
what's so interesting about their relationship is that dog we i believe seems to want to help her so much that he gives her some principles for working with a co on know maybe you guys have heard about this some of your i had not but it's very helpful
and he sorta made it up on the fly it was kind of an experiment he was just sort of like responding to her request so he gives her these things to do
don't assume it's the truth
don't assume it's not important to do anything about it
don't take it as a lightning flash
don't try to figure it out
and don't pay attention to the context just concentrate on the crucial lines
to me this is remarkable because a lot of times in the cohens especially the blue cliff record i'll read them and it'll be like
okay and so then i'll start reading for context this will help me understand it and of course in the blue cliff record in particular just makes it worse for me it's like oh great thanks for the commentary it didn't help at all
so just concentrate on the crucial lines this is he's learning he is learning with her how to work with a co on take a crucial lines sit with it
don't assume it's the truth don't assume it's not important to do something about it
don't take it as a lightning flash and don't try to figure it out
don't pay attention to the context just concentrate on the crucial lines
so again she's working with matsu it is not mind it is not buddha it is not a thing
so i love that he's developing his teaching along with her this is one of the jewels of the teacher student relationship and for those of us function in for those of us who function in a teaching role for me it's very helpful to feel like
i'm going alongside a student as a dermis sister just sort of like oh here try this i don't know try that because that's what i do with myself and that's what surgeon did with me one time i was in dhaka some a with maley
and i was in one of my
a desperate
emotional moments states and we were talking and she just didn't know what to do with me nothing was helping i have a way of being very stubborn in my suffering and am i wasn't going to let her help and i think she knew that so we stood she made me
stand up or in the docusign hut and we just started bowing i don't know how long we bowed we just did full bows until we got too tired
she figured it out with me and it was very helpful
so she goes to doorway three times to solve this cohen or to express her understanding and he's always
you know throwing around or whatever the third time she comes in she really she really
has something
and we don't wanna
read this to
so it was a sultry of august afternoon and their route robes are sticking to their skins and she bounded his seat and she said i found the doorway in probably her first mistake great to walk in as a way
i got it i get it he smiled kindly suddenly like a mother to her and said it is not mind it is not buddha it is not a thing how do you understand this
i only understand this way that extra he broke in you
wanted to say he shouted at her that's extra
and the words cracked open she fell with a crash into a silence so deep it seemed to echo upon itself this was not the silence when no one is talking she realized this wasn't the silence between the words when someone is talking this was the silence inside the words the silence of war
words she was home
so this story of miao dao she goes on she becomes his first transmitted disciple
so she was lucky she had two different teachers who let women in and she became daviess first disciple and she had students and she worked hard with them and she talked a lot she had a lot to say
so that's the story of miao dao there's more to her story but
what i got from it is what sally tisdale said in her book that with doubly miao dao became a student of the way and with me out dow dow we became a teacher of the way

so one thing that miao dao said as a teacher later in working with a student who she was really putting down and giving a hard time when we discuss the meeting between two people we don't need higher and lower ranks forms rise out of conditions so i respond to these conditions
sometimes i blocked the students way and sometimes i'm a gate
and many of us have had both experiences

suzuki roshi am
spoke about what transmission is and i want to use the term of transmission not like me with this brown robe although it includes that in this brown robe includes something between me and sajjan
and i'll talk about that more when we when i remember sojourn in a few weeks
but distance was never an issue for him with me he helped me so much i think
he wanted me to have faith in myself so he offered me lay entrustment soon after i got to bozeman and i think it's not that he didn't have faith in me but he wanted to keep me close especially cause i was living on her and ashram with a guru and he wanted to make sure
i stayed tethered to him and i'm forever grateful to him for that you know sometimes the teacher opens the gate for you
suzuki roshi said that transmission is a cover and so when i speak about transmission it's not just this brown robots when we meet it's when two people meet and and transmission happens but what is transmitted
but when something is transmitted it's like a cover it protects it's like a cover for food he says you cover the food so it doesn't get stale and dusty conceal it
and the dharma is not just written scripture it's warm hand to warm hand in this transmission is not just a symbol
but the meeting of two hearts and minds so i want to just underscore the value of conversation and the silence between
two practitioners
oh suzuki roshi talked or yeah suzuki we're going to start getting confused now when we say suzuki roshi are so generous you are not going to know who we're talking about
but you know now we get to say so general she used to say just like we heard for years and years that suzuki roshi she used to say
it's a beautiful and
suzuki roshi talks about offering incense to the teachers
and how in japan they did this formal thing where they would offer it
to the country offer incense to the country of for instance to the buddha and offer incense to the teacher
and when they offered incense to the buddha they did not cry and when they offered incense to the country they never cried but when they offered incense to their teacher they cried
very tender
susan giro she also said that we were to master teachers way completely and then be free of it
it's hard practice it's not about having knowledge or special powers
when tell one more story before i give us time to talk together
you know that phrase that so low she would say i don't know who said it probably suzuki roshi when you are you then as then i used to drive me crazy i had no idea what that meant now i have an idea of what it meant but that's what it is an idea but when i am me and i stop trying to be sojourn or someone else that i am
meyer when i am me then has fulfilled itself in that moment and i'm when a disciple really becomes a disciple and i want to talk about this word disciple you know it comes from the latin disarray to follow or to learn so discipline and decide
people have the same route
oh to become a disciple to really follow something but not like you've given up your own authority or leadership we all i mean sajjan followed something suzuki roshi followed something
you know i said in one of our groups of that we've had since smell past that i was surprised to hear other people's stories of mel because i thought i was the i thought i was the only one who had a relationship with him because that's how we made me feel when i was with him i was the only purse
listen oh he was completely in relationship to me so when i hear you guys tell your stories i'm like wow you guys were really close or oh you had a really hard time or like that but what i found about discipline
is that there's three kinds and this is not as anything thing but i think it should be is preventive discipline their supported discipline and there's corrective discipline
so we follow we sit and follow the dharma has prevented discipline to get us on the right path to keep us upright we get supported discipline when we work with our teacher and our sanga mates and we get corrective discipline when we hit the bell wrong and so general she flips around and looks
at us like who taught you how to ring the bells
and other things like that
so i'm going to bring a familiar story to us very quickly not because i'm going to on
talk about the co on itself but i wanna talk about the relationship of the student and teacher and the reason i bring this colonna is because it was given to me three times in my life and no other khan was given to me really so it sort of like i had a sign on my back
you know this girl needs cohen nineteen of the moment kahn which i found out was one of surgeons favorites nonchalance ordinary mind is the way another translation is
everyday life is the way
so keeping ordinary mind in everyday life together
jojo as non one what is the way non said ordinary mind is the way
georgia was should i try to direct myself toward it
nonchalance said if you try to direct yourself toward it you betrayed your own practice
giorgio asked how can i know the way if i don't direct myself
nonchalance one said the way is not subject to knowing or not knowing knowing his delusion not knowing his blankness if you truly reached the genuine way you will find it as vast and boundless as outer space how can this be discussed at the level of
affirmation and negation
with these words of course georgia was enlightened

one part of what ron left out in my travels is when i left berkeley before i went to montana i went to allay i was newly married or few years married and we went to l a so my then husband could become a rock star and i was teaching a ucla
and i studied a little bit with a goku wendy a cow she also gave me this come on and i had a great wins i experience with her i would have to go in and recite the whole thing
and then she would say how do you understand it and of course they never pass the go on but i had this one great experience where i went in and it was very like had to run to docusign he had to like elbow other people out of the way you would do your bows sit down say the on and this one time just like me out our
something to say and i will say the haku on she asked how do you understand it
and i took a breath and she rang me out she rang me out as i took my inhale to express my great knowledge
sajjan gave me the same on around the same time through email so we studied this home together through email and i studied it and studied it and i wrote about it and a lot came to me in the writing i don't say i passed it i just say i enjoyed it and am
later maybe about four five years ago when i was visiting for a sixteen or something he gave it to me again and i just thought god i am never gonna get this but it's clear
it's clear from me that to remember everyday lives as the way and so what i love about this cohen is this relationship between nonsense and nonchalant and jojo how kind non on is to give him so much language and images you know one it says outer space it's fast
and boundless as outer space some translations say sky and that the character for sky is what what the translation of should not top is from the sanskrit emptiness boundlessness connectedness possibility when you have an oath
one sky anything can come through anything can leave
it's our playground this vast emptiness and nonchalant is just you know gauchos only about twenty years old here eighteen or twenty and he goes on to become a great master lives another more than hundred years oh someone's calling me sorry about that
i'm at least the dog is embarking but unlocking on wood
how kind am
nonchalant is being how generous and what is it that gl joe gets after the paragraph of nonce one
is that the words themselves is that the silence of the words is it their meeting is it just being together
i'm very interested in that you know
both akin roshi and st zaki who commented on this
make it seem so simple and in some ways it is so simple
for me nonchalant didn't explain anything but just kept meeting jojo where his difficulty was
just meeting ourselves where our difficulty is just bringing forth the duality of life into this boundlessness from which it really comes from which it really is
oh
none one seems to appreciate gl joes distress and how to direct his effort
and in this conversation i think it points to that silence that miao dao knew something about so that she could use language and not lose her relationship to the silence so we trust in persevere in our teachers way when we're ready we have a
teacher
when we don't have a teacher we use each moment as the teacher and we bow every day and we love them
i think that said may think i've left some time yes
no someone's shaking their head met you don't agree
we have i'm just so moves i'm i'm just like shaking my head and gratitude oak a big jog your picky you ah girl gray tile prefer on that more than half
please raise your hand and we will call on you i will call on you
i'll be direct please with your questions

once again if you are laura snarky please i admit yourself and ask a question hello my dear thank you so much
am i guess what i'm left with is just wondering so if someone doesn't know what to do about this
do you have anything specific to say like do you need a teacher like you know you if you don't have a teacher you use every moment as your teacher use every person is your teacher and there's a lot of breath there's a lot of options and there's there's not a
it's not a hard and fast rule but yet
you know how do you how hard should you try how do you know do you is it only one or can you have a series i mean you know
just a little bit more about the specifics hum if you if you have any thoughts about that well i'm i thank you do
i'm thinking your question reminds me of jojo's question might please tell me and i think that on
i think you have to first examine your own heart if you're willing to have a teacher to put someone in that role for you some people are not are some people think they are but then they end up fighting the whole time but i think as then students should have a teacher and i remember one
friend of mine or acquaintance of mine when she got transmission she felt like she no longer needed a teacher and i question the i think we always need a reference point and sometimes it's teacher to teacher like from miao dao as she was traveling for fifteen twenty five years
i can do twenty five years
but i think it's important to get some council on it one by one like i don't have a blanket thing for everyone but i think if you want this path which is a path of reckoning is really difficult and disease full once you settle it's good to have that person in your
life i don't know if that helps yeah now that's good i agree
i agree
thanks lori
thank you
susan moon sir ma'am please ask of question
i can use you thank you for that wonderful talk thank you for me ah tao
i'm
i went asking about the common practice you did and the and working with the same cohen over the years and feeling like you never really got it
and yet and helped you a lot so i guess it's i don't know quite how to put the question but i guess in men's eyes then which i don't really know because i've never practiced dip there's a different a do you get it or you don't get it but in our practice
there isn't that line drawn and so is there a way that you i mean do you have to say to yourself well i never really got it but it helped me a lot could you instead frame it differently maybe you didn't really get it in your own way or i mean what difference does it make whether you re
lee get it or not or
i don't know if that the kinds of insights that you've got with with that on and the way it has helped you do feel as though if he weren't really carter even now if you worked a little bit harder you might get more out of it or something about that and three
find the question in that i appreciate the question when i first heard about zen when i was a when i was practicing the pessina and my friend was telling me about rinzai zen and he sat with sasaki roshi i thought that you know you had this moment where you got it and there was minding my trash
mission and that was it that it was a one time event and over the years of course i learned the long road of practice i still don't i still feel a kind of arm nervousness about the idea of passing cohen's i don't know what that means i know what it means to meet the teacher i feel like i
done that with so jin and other teachers you know had that exchange where your of one mind you it's there's nothing transmitted it's you're having the same moment but i know people who have passed all the coins and i don't know what that means but for me i enjoy them now i guess saying i didn't get it
is is speaking rinzai language and in my language i would say i enjoy these and they helped me and i read the commentaries and i talk with people about them and for that they are great food for my practice
yeah i think so
hassan
please
i'll your son again i am i have a question with two sides basically one question it is
what should what is reasonable for a student to expect from a teacher what does it still need to expect from a teacher and of course the other side is what the teacher ah what reasonable for tissue to expect
from student

i guess the young
yeah what is reasonable and what is useful on what is our path with that why have a teacher
i think that the student
i think first the teacher might expect from the student to ah
apply effort even though
phone says it's not about that but still we do it we make effort we show up we practice and we asked questions
i think i would expect from a teacher honesty and compassion
so both being a barrier and being a gate the barrier helps me find my small minded view of myself
and the gate helps miss exist in the boundlessness of my true self
i think we can expect from our teachers
preventative preventive supportive and corrective teaching
and from the student we can expect to may be grow in our ability to make use of preventive discipline you know to do the practice that some of our difficulties will resolve themselves so jin often left me to work it out for myself

dishonesty cut both ways
yes once i told sojourn you know when you pay attention to other other students especially other female students do you know some of our your other female students get jealous and he was surprised and i realized i had said something he hadn't thought of
and it was one of the boldest things i ever said to him but i'm i'm glad i did
thank you for saying that

ron nestor
i care home
ah
ordinary mind is the ways of my favorite corn and of question i've wanted to ask many people who presented
i'm has like you that to read relate diverse verse
oh wait a minute
i'll like you to rip to relate the verse the goes with the case the groom on wrote because i feel like people never mentioned that verse or really related to the heart of that case and i'll read the verse so people know what i'm talking about two cases
cohen on your models or yamada cons a translation
okay then or for those who don't know
yamada put i mean room on put a verse with every case in the spring flowers the moon and autumn the cool breezes of summer the winter snow is idle concerns to not cloud the mind this is our best season
please make the connection with that in the case
well i
well right now it's snowing in montana and apparently i'm having my best season so each season has it's own quality each moment has its own reality
when idle concerns don't hang in the mind meaning when we don't bring the past forward to this moment but we're in the boundlessness of the moment
that's our best season that's our best that springing then for that is what we are and sometimes the moment is so but now we think will this can't be it but when you really take a breath
and just be with exactly what is
i'm in my dining room that needs the vacuum
and take a breath it's just perfect
when i bring forth the notion i should vacuum this i need to put fresh flowers and when when all of this hang in my mind
and don't pass through like clouds and sky i just cause so much suffering from myself my my tape just keeps running and i keep bringing forth the same person i'm attached to the same person
even myself clinging is a kind of idol concern because i think i'm so important
it's not gonna not important
it's just that this moment is what's real not so much my idea of myself
i love that verse wrong and i wasn't you know i would i ran out of time a little bit diverse is really to me the heart of it
and i love this idea of not bringing forth the past are projecting into the future really useful east for mind i think that this cohen is about that so jin helped me relax in my life just relax
which was a good teaching for me
okay thank you

for a last question i invite dean
hi karen ideen me get there sir
thank you so much for this talk
i really like to hear you talk about soldier because well i think about him i get happy and i feel like when i listen to you
it and you talk about and that makes me happy so thank you so much for them just making this happy and give me a lot of smiles this morning
you said something in the beginning
i'm a little bit of trouble reading my notes that
you were talking about i can't remember you talking about but anyway you said some that she was in the hell realm of a town and then i started went off on that and you said something about whether that was a place where she suffered or or something in it made me realize that
that
will get more bit of a hell round the last couple of three weeks and it's been full of suffering and confusion and and the whole time though i knew this is this is where i need to be and the same gonna kill me
i will complain about it maybe but i'm just need to keep doing it so as i it's i had been in his car that's been in a roll over for your couple of weeks and there would be spots when i would see the flowers were i would see the sun and then i would hear the crunching of the car
our and in that sort of what it was like and when you said that this hell realm of a town it was come like oh yeah that's where we go and that's where we walk out of that's where we go and that's where we walk out and the suffering and whatever else is there is what
lets us walk out so i just really liked hearing you say that and dumb
i appreciated it it was so simple it was so now and i'm just some thank you so much they have so very much thank you dean i'll just make a brief comment on that soon after i came to bozeman i was like what am i doing here what am i doing with
this crazy guru what am i doing all this stuff and in a lot of ways my fight against being here has been a kind of hell realm and the way i have walked out of it was not by leaving but it was by being there
i mean she literally finally left that town but something the transformation might have been being in the town and believing was the fruit of that and that's how i feel here i don't know how long i'll stay i feel very committed to the sanga here and i feel committed to all of you
you know so i get your i gotcha and i'm sorry it's been so wobbly for you and may you have a lot more ease
mm thank you to everyone i appreciate your good