Good morning. So today I'm going to do a talk I'm calling Sashin, Provider of Many and Varied Opportunities to Experience and Penetrate the Arising and Sensation of Suffering. Now I have to say that I did give a talk on suffering about six months ago after our spring practice period, and I had a bone to pick at that time. So my talk was mainly about using mindfulness to cultivate well-being and joy in practice. But it's the fifth day of Sashin, and there is a certain well-being and joy that we all feel being together that arises naturally in Sashin. But today I'm going to talk more about suffering and the granularity of suffering, ways to work with suffering, and particularly things that come up during Sashin.

[01:07]

But first, I have to tell you about, you know, there's always on the way here or, well, on the way here, I was feeling, coming into Sashane, a little bit insecure because I've had this back thing and I had cortisone injections and I wasn't sure I would stand up to it. I would be strong enough or my practice would be strong enough to get me through or I would fail and it would be terrible. I had that, the demon of the Mara of, you know, you're a failure, you're not good enough came along. So I kind of came in with that. And then a day or so into Sashin, Hozan came up to me and he said, oh, by the way, he had a schedule. By the way, you're doing practice discussion on Wednesday and you're giving the talk on Thursday. He said, I think you're giving the talk on Thursday. I'll get back to you on that. So in the meantime, I said, well, it probably is a maybe. I'll count on maybe and I'll, you know, get through the cooking and all the other things and see how I do sitting and whatever.

[02:15]

And I'm really not going to worry about it. And I did a bad thing. The bad thing was I checked my email. I have to confess. I think it was Tuesday, maybe, when I was cooking or something and I went out, you know, and I was resting a little bit. I said, just click, just look to see if there's anything really important. And there was the email, you're giving the talk on Thursday. So I thought, so all of, uh, all of the, uh, all of the Maras arose. Um, they all came. How great. Ooh, you're going to have to give a talk. What? You're giving a talk? You can never be prepared. Uh, you have to give a talk and so did Allen giving talks. Yeah. You know, and, and anyway, all of that stuff arose and, um, and I, um,

[03:16]

I just had to say, well, you know, after a while I discussed it with them and asked them to please take a different seat. And they, they kind of receded and I thought, well, I will just proceed with my talk preparation and, and think about it, think through it. What is it that's I'm worried about? And, and. and kind of give myself a pep talk about, you know, this stuff or whatever. And so that's, and so I kind of told, told Peter that I would have to have some special time because I just wasn't going to get up here on Thursday and give a talk on whatever. I could probably, I mean, maybe, but So I found a means of working with it. I basically said, I just have to negotiate time and

[04:19]

and be able to have that time. And then I can, you know, then it's okay. And if it's not okay, that's okay too, because that's just how it is. Some talks are great. Some talks are okay. Some talks aren't so good. Some talks are boring. So that's just how it is. And this one will be what it is. So I'm saying this to let you know that when I'm talking about suffering during Sashin, I like you. I'm not talking about your suffering. I'm talking about each one of us suffering in our own ways. And then of course, as I walked in here, Alan had told me I should start using a teaching stick, which I haven't done. So I got some quick lessons from Raoul and Peter in the courtyard. So that's part of our practice also is kind of saying yes. Certainly it's a practice I made a vow to take on when I was a priest to say yes.

[05:21]

And then to deal with whatever. It is, and to make mistakes and to fall down and, you know. I noticed I didn't, you know, I didn't, it was hard for me to open my zagu with the thing in my hand and I'll have to practice that or something. But anyway, so that's also part of seishin, right? We're put in positions, we don't know what we're going to do. We have no idea. Somebody hands us a piece of paper. We have no idea what it says on it. What? Jikido? Anyway, so what I'm going to do is, the other thing that's a background, I better do the background in a hurry or I won't have time to talk. I just got back from Bhutan and the other thing that led me to talk about suffering was not about suffering, but about Buddhism being so really incredibly different. Tibetan Buddhism and Bhutanese Buddhism is so different.

[06:24]

It has a lot of bells and whistles. It has a lot of miracles and people turning into tigers and flying and some guy, well, I won't even talk about that. Raul will get me if I say something about that. They have demons. Garudas and all kinds of stuff. And everywhere you go, it's distraction and large, colorful paintings and a lot of color and a lot of ceremony and a lot of stories. So I have resolved after I got back from Bhutan to go back to the basic Buddha's teaching. And say, because all religions, all religions really are made up things. There's a spiritual teacher and then all these other people come along and then create this whole mishigas around it. And forms and ceremonies and mythology that is really gets you far away from the heart of it. And so I've been,

[07:28]

I've been working on that, on going back. So in talking about suffering today, I went back to the early polycanon talking about suffering and how to deal with suffering. And I'll talk a little bit about some other people. And so I went back to the Rahulas, what the Buddha taught, and some of the basic stuff. Anyway, so the original word for suffering, as we know, is dukkha, which doesn't really mean suffering. In its traditional sense, it meant the usual everyday suffering, usual pain, sorrow, misery, impermanence, emptiness, insubstantiality, just the way, the troubles of life, right? The troubles of being, the events of life. And a lot, but a lot of people since then

[08:36]

quote the Buddha as saying that the first noble truth is suffering and pain. But further on in the same sutras and the discourses about suffering, Buddha says that he wants us to recognize pain, suffering, that the point is to recognize suffering when it's present and to recognize happiness when it's present. So suffering there is not some permanent condition, like non-self or impermanence is always there. Suffering arises and ceases. It's a phenomenon that arises and ceases. And it's one that we experience and it's one that we can work with. We can't work so well. with impermanence except to understand that we can't make impermanence go away. We can't have, oh my God, I finally made it, impermanence. I've reached Nirvana, now there's no impermanence.

[09:40]

But suffering, we can say, I've really been able to work with suffering. I really can do something with suffering. It's something I can practice with. It's something that's that helps practice and realization. So the Buddha talked about three kinds of suffering, three kinds of dukkha. And this first part I did talk about in my last talk, but you probably have forgotten it. Sojin always says nobody remembers anything. So the first suffering is called Dukkha Dukkha, and this is what we mean by just life. Birth, death, old age, sickness, death, association with unpleasant persons and conditions, separation from people we love or experience we like, and not getting what we want, and having mental and physical pain. So that's kind of, that first kind of Dukkha is basically life.

[10:45]

It's just life. It's not something special. It's not something we can really avoid. It's something we just have every day in one way or another, or we encounter. And there's really no way to get rid of it. You can't get rid of birth or death, or you could, I guess, get rid of birth. But all these things are just part of the picture, part of the package we come in with. The second type of suffering is called Viparanama Dukkha. It's also that it is really the way that we experience impermanence of happy feelings and conditions in life that are pleasurable to us. So it's the suffering from getting, it's suffering that comes from being attached to not suffering. If you're attached to non-suffering or you're attached to blissfulness or pleasantness or love and joy, we laugh sometimes about positive people are always happy.

[11:59]

Oh, we're happy. Oh, everything's great. But that is not, that's not life. That's not life. I mean, I don't know, maybe there are people who are drinking happy juice and it is life, but it isn't life as we know it. So the third form of dukkha is called samkhara dukkha, which is the dukkha, which is my favorite one actually, is the dukkha of conditioned states. I think it's the most important because it's, it's, it's, It also, Buddha was a great psychologist in my experience, right? Yes. He was a great psychologist. I have to have both validation from the mental health consultant. So this is really understanding or living the reality of dependent co-arising. It's really, it's really the reality that we're not separate beings.

[12:59]

that we're arising and ceasing in different forms every moment, that every situation arises because of that particular momentary situation. And since we can't control all of the input that we get from our senses or all the input that we get into our mind, we have no control over the fact that these causes and conditions are surrounding us all the time. So sometimes those causes and conditions are great because we have a happy or blissful experience and other times, many times. We arise differently and as we all know, it comes and goes every period in Zazen when we're doing Sashin. We arise and cease as a comfortable person. We were really happy we came. And then the next period, everything hurts and you can't think you can stand it another minute. And then you think, I'm not going to be able to do this.

[14:03]

I'm just going to have to go rest or whatever. I just can't sit a moment longer. Maybe, maybe I, can I get up? What are people going to think? You know, they'll think I'm not a good Zen student. So just says, be still. He talked about full lotus, I can't do that. All of these things. So we create ourselves basically a whole big messy story that can actually follow us through a whole day or two days. And almost always we do that. But if we look at that dukkha, We realize that there's this suffering happening because of all these conditions, but there really isn't, but it's always changing. So there's really nobody suffering, but there is suffering and maybe, and maybe, maybe. that might be something that we can actually deal with if we know that it's so impermanent or we remind ourselves that it's so impermanent because we know it, right?

[15:10]

We've all read it. We all know it. So it gives us the idea of understanding dukkha in these different ways. And getting down to the granularity and the particularity helps with actually addressing it. I mean, it's different. It's a very different experience to deal with sickness, old age, and death. The conditions are not... There are conditions, I mean, there's flexibility in knowing how to do that, but there's, you know, there's a different way we deal with being sad when somebody leaves us. That's a different condition. It requires a different thought process. It requires different, you know, analysis for ourselves, different concentration and mindfulness. How are we going to deal with that? So all of, by thinking about it, by actually discerning what's going on with us, it actually helps.

[16:17]

First of all, it takes our minds off. When we become more mindful of exactly what is it that's unsatisfactory right now. and we really focus on it, we have something, we have something, we feel, we have some agency. We feel like we have some flex, we can have some flexibility or agency. We're not stuck. We're not stuck. Um, so there's another, um, so, so it takes, um, you know, it, it takes, um, some effort and, um, I wanted to read something, another level of working with suffering from Thich Nhat Hanh's Touching Our Suffering, which I'm not going to be able to read with or without my glasses, hopefully. Thich Nhat Hanh talks about Buddha's discourse on turning the wheel of the Dharma and how we use three turnings at each level of noble truth.

[17:33]

How we practice with three turnings to deal with our suffering. So the first turning is called a recognition. We sense that something's wrong, but we're not able to say exactly what it is. We make some effort to escape, but we cannot, we know that. We try to deny our suffering, but it persists. The Buddha said that to suffer and not know that we're suffering is more painful is more painful than the burden endured by the mule carrying an unimaginable heavy load, we must first all recognize that we are suffering and then determine whether its basis is physical, psychological, or physiological. Our suffering needs to be identified. And what that gets us to, again, is that kind of granularity I was talking about. I'm not, I'm afraid.

[18:37]

I'm worried. I'm uneasy. I'm experiencing anger. So it's urging us, first of all, to recognize and name that anger. And then to own that anger, to be, there's that anger. Or there's that pain in my knee. So to actually own that it's there, not try to make it go away. We always say that, but we always try to do it. But to be with it, to breathe with it, to hold it lightly, whatever it is, whether it's a physical pain or a mental pain, to just let it be. not to do anything with it, and if we have, if we can relax and stay in touch with our breath, we can create and keep our ears open and our eyes open to everything, to a wider field, we're able to hold that.

[19:48]

Sojin the other day talked about This is getting ahead of myself a little bit, but Sojin talked about body scan. I have pain. What exactly is going on? Is this pain something to worry about or not? But the first turning is to acknowledge it and to accept it, not to. turn it away, whatever it is, whatever hateful thought. Lots of thoughts come up during Zazen, especially if we haven't done it a lot. Even when we have, subconsciously things come up that we haven't dealt with, that we've been denying, that we've been pushing away, grief that we haven't faced comes up, anger that we haven't faced, worries, whatever fears come up, they rise up. So we name them fear. And just doing that and just making a field for that to be in is actually a first step.

[20:52]

So the second turning of the wheel is called encouragement. After recognizing and identifying our pain, we take time to look deeply into it in order to understand its true nature, which means its causes. He says, after observing your symptoms, the doctor says, I will look deeply into it. This illness can be understood. It may take him a week to conduct tests. I love when he does this. He always has these, tries to make this more accessible by taking a common thing. And inquire what we have been eating and our attitudes, how we can spend our time and so on. Our suffering, depression, illness, and difficult relationship or fear needs to be understood like a doctor. And we are determined to understand.

[21:55]

We practice sitting, walking meditation. We ask for guidance and support from our Dharma friends, from our teacher. And we hope through that encouragement, we actually understand what's behind a little bit behind it. We understand it's arising. For example, we can understand that it's a conditioned response we have to a certain situation. Or, oh, there's my companion, anger. There's my companion, sadness. It's here again. How does it feel? How does it feel in my body? Where is that sadness? Where's that sadness? Is it causing me to have a, tight abdomen? Is it causing me to have a tight chest? Does it make me tense? Can I just, again, with encouragement and consultation, can I just learn how to be with that? Can I just hold that feeling, hold that thing?

[22:58]

So we need encouragement to help us. After we recognize, we need kind of a little self-analysis and encouragement. The third turning of the wheel is called realization. And that can be expressed as, oops, this suffering has been understood. We realize the efforts to begin through the second turning. The doctor tells us the name and all the characteristics of our illness. After studying and reflecting upon and practicing the first noble truth, we realize that we have stopped running away from our pain. We can now call our suffering by its specific name and identify all of its characteristics. This alone brings happiness and joy. So this gives us a kind of a framework also. So it adds to the fact that we now know, we've kind of identified, and it's not so much of an intellectual process, it's more of a, but we have information by using mindfulness, by using mindfulness of suffering.

[24:08]

and using it in a very, very focused and very careful way. We're still, we're not making the suffering go away yet, but it might. Sometimes just shining a light and acknowledging and accepting is all we need to do. Sometimes recognition and realization, sometimes the realization is just the surrendering to whatever the situation is. Like, you know, you just get sore knees. That's what happens during Sashin. So it's no big deal. I have to discern whether I'm really hurting my old cartilage tear or not. Can I, and yeah, I have to discern whether it means that I need to do something. Like, do I really need to get up because it's really an old injury that might be dangerous?

[25:09]

Or can I just breathe and say, pain in my knee, I think I'll do a body scan. You know, I'm going to do, surgeon says, do sazen instruction, or that's kind of a body scan. But you can do a body scan and just focus your attention on each area of your body. what muscles around that pain are tense. Often we have a knee problem, but the knee problem has become now a thigh problem and a hip problem and a back problem because we're so tense. And if we actually focus, we can actually see, oh, so I have to breathe into my back muscle or I have to breathe in somewhere. The knee is a little sore, but now I've created a whole body that feels sore. Now I'm exhausted. And I definitely want to go rest. And I wonder if I can ask the session director if I can have a period to lie in, lie down in the community room. And sometimes we have to do that and that's okay.

[26:10]

But a lot of times, um, I had a talk with somebody yesterday. Um, and the person said, um, I just can't stand this pain anymore and I'm just going to give it up to Buddha. So it's kind of like going into 12-step and saying, I can't deal with my addiction. I have to let it go to a higher power. I have to give myself up, I have to surrender my self holding on to thinking that this being has this pain and it's a big deal and I have to do something and I, me, me, me, I have the power through my efforts and intention to make it go away. And that's delusion.

[27:13]

once we let go of the delusion and realize we're powerless and realize that the suffering is part of the game, then we can, once we have an experience like that, And I think many of you probably have. I mean, you can just think you're not going to be able to do it. You just think you're not going to make it through. And then you just say, Oh, something, there's some letting go that happens. Some like, Oh, I'm done with this or whatever. And then all of a sudden something shifts, something changes. And you just said, and other times, of course, that's not true. So, um, There's another, yet another tool that is talked about and was talked about in Buddhist discourses, and that is, to add to your armamentarium, the recognition of what they call the four nutrients.

[28:28]

The four nutrients are those factors that can either help our suffering, but also can be the source of our suffering. So as we're going through our process of recognition and encouragement, we get a sense of whether or not, and particularly in pattern behavior, that kind of suffering where it conditioned behavior, What are these possible conditions? What is the conditioning in me that makes me tend towards self-doubt or self-criticism or makes me tend towards being irritable and angry about somebody sitting next to me for nothing and all they did was breathe? What is that? Who's that that's angry with that? What is that? So these are the nutrients, the things that in your

[29:34]

in your life you may not recognize. And I have to take these with a grain of salt, I have to tell you. Food, food and drink, and that includes alcohol. So food and drink and how you eat and how you take care of yourself and how you nurture yourself or don't nurture yourself, how greedy you are about food. We see this, you know, you can see all of this when you, and people get a lot of suffering, but you'd see all of this during meals when people are being served. I don't know about you, but I used to have this a lot more now. I'm so spacey after a few days of sessioning that they had to wake me up to serve me. But I used to have opinions about how much was in the scoop, how slowly or quickly they gave it to me. Why does that person put those tiny bits?

[30:36]

It takes forever. And it's making me feel like I'm never going to get enough and I feel embarrassed. I can't really wait to get the more food. I can't, you know, and other people who just slop it in and don't give you a chance to say enough. And, you know, and you have these annoyances. But they all have to, they have to do with, you know, some, these basic things we have about food. Food is, you know, food is for survival. So we have this genetic, we were programmed about food. And as careers can nab here. Yeah, Ken, do you remember the mountains and rivers fishing when the person forgot the two lunches? I think Eric, was it Eric forgot the lunches or something? Something happened and we were there at Point Reyes, for God's sakes, you know, how far away is that? People became panicked.

[31:37]

people started hoarding. And at one point, Ken said something like, it feels like we're on the Donner party and we're going to start eating each other. So food can have this provocative effect. And during sashimi, whether you liked it or not, you know, why did they give me that kind? All of these kinds of primal, causes of suffering arise. I mean, the suffering people had over missing lunch. And it wasn't like we were going to miss lunch. We just divided everything up so that there would be less and whatever. But it was very funny. I never got over that. I always tell that story because it was hysterical. It was like watching people go crazy on the Lord of the Flies or something. These were Buddhists. All they were missing was lunch. But you can see people get very angry at servers, and servers, you know, get, like, bad vibes, I'm sure, sometimes, from people.

[32:41]

And then you see the people who go, ugh, you know. And you have ideas. Why is he eating so much? That's greed. That's greed. So then judgment comes up, and then you don't feel good about yourself because you're a person who judges. So, you know, it's a whole story that you have to deal with when you could just quietly sit there, pay attention to your own bowl, you know, and eat. But this is it. So food is actually a nutrient of suffering in its way, in many ways, and obviously craving for alcohol or craving for sweets and things like that cause people a lot of suffering in their lives. So it's okay, suffering. So then the sense impressions. And I thought that actually Thich Nhat Hanh's discussion of the sense impressions was interesting because of how we live now. And he was talking about how so much of our suffering comes in through our senses.

[33:46]

And that a lot of times our free-floating anxiety um, is actually a result of all of this input that we just don't identify. So here's another case where we kind of go into recognizing what is this on, you know, when we're taught, when we're looking at our suffering, um, and being with our suffering, um, recognizing that I can, if that, if I check my email and read the latest headlines before I come into Zazen, I have a much more difficult period than if I don't. And after a couple of days of sashin, when you're no longer having that exposure of noise, of blaring, of craziness coming in from all directions, everything's calmer. I don't have that same feeling. I start feeling warm and cozy.

[34:47]

you know, it feels like comfortable and safe in a container where that stuff is removed. And Thich Nhat Hanh and the Buddha encourages that these things, these sensory inputs are like toxins to our body. And we have to recognize they are toxins to our body. And if we want to be more tranquil, if we want to be more centered and be more grounded, We really have to recognize what are the poisons that are out there, that are surrounding us. And in the same way we go on a diet from food, we go on a diet from some of these other inputs, whatever they are. They're different for everybody. The third one is volition or intention. It's recognized, and this is where talked about as if we, if we are, for example, and a kind of ambitious person with gaining idea, for example, I want to be the best Zen student.

[35:57]

I want to do it so everybody notices. I want to really sit straight. I'm going to sit so straight. I don't care if it kills me. I'm going to do, I'm going to do. But Sojin used to call that macho zen. And that there were people who were really, you know, they were militant in the way they did everything. And they were meticulous about the form and they were attached to their image. this self-image of the best-sent student or the one that did the bows best or the one that did the chanting best or whatever. But this is also people who have – and that kind of thing can come up in Sashin. I mean outside of Sashin, it could be people are really – their life makes it – their life and their decisions about their life and how they do their life creates suffering. then comes up in Zazen. And that's why I think very ambitious people who are looking for fame and gain and material wealth and so forth are really most often not so happy and have a lot of suffering.

[37:15]

But they may take a relaxation weekend. feel good weekend or something to feel happy and relaxed but that really isn't going to do it because if you're a stockbroker and you're at the thing making money all day or whatever, that's what's doing it. So it's only by recognizing that the life choices and the intentions you make and then you can turn that. All of these things you can turn. so that they can make a difference, right? You can change your intention. Your intention, your vow can be to be present. Your vow can be to give away. Your vow can be to be generous. So the intentions that can cause you to suffer can also be turned to be intentions that can cause you to live a wholesome life or to feel a more tranquil experience. And the last one is consciousness. Uh, which is, um, uh, which is really, uh, conditioned consciousness, uh, alaya consciousness.

[38:25]

The fact that, um, that you have to look at, and we, I talked about that before that, that when we, when these feelings come up, when these situations come up, why is, why is this dysfunctional response? Why is this upsetting response happening? Like, why would I be concerned about what somebody next to me is doing? You know, they're really not bothering me. I mean, they're not doing anything to me. Why would I be concerned about anybody else's behavior being right or wrong that I'm looking at? Why would I let that get to me if somebody has a certain behavior that's uncomfortable? Why did I feel that rush of anger when someone gave me a correction? Who is that feeling upset about the correction? Why did somebody saying no, you need to wait outside until the bell, why would that be something that could make somebody unhappy? Why is it making me unhappy?

[39:28]

Was really that person being helpful to me? Or was that person being mean to me? Discerning from your own conditioning, why these responses happen. So being curious. So when you have a response to someone else in Sishin, for example, we always say, because we're vulnerable here and we're all open, don't deal directly with them, you know, talk to the Sishin director. Part of that is just, is order and kindness in general. But part of that is also, you know, you're, you're, you're sensitive during Sishin. So all your little things come out and your little irritations and your little tendencies kind of come to the surface. So it's better to, uh, take a breath. And then if you talk to the session director, even doing that diffuses it or thinking that you're going to talk to the session director. Um, so those are the, all the tools. So there's lots of tools. Um, and we have lots of opportunities to use them.

[40:31]

The only thing I wanted to say before a few questions else is the other aspect of all of this, I think, is this aspect of the way that we, in order to really deal skillfully and work skillfully with our suffering, obviously requires patience. Generosity, equanimity, compassion for ourselves. It's, it's this focus is turning the focus rather than on complaining and criticism to compassion. What, what, you know, Suzuki Roshi always talks about. Yes, we want to identify the causes of our suffering, but being okay in accepting the problems is really what's important.

[41:35]

That in order for us to be able to work with it, we don't work with it getting beaten. over, you know, for not being skillful. We work with it by accepting that this is just how it is right now and completely accepting it, completely accepting the pain, completely accepting our pattern, completely accepting it first. It's okay. I understand it. This is the pattern. People have patterns when they have these experiences in life. This is my anger. I have that. And then kind of surrendering completely to it. So we have all this information and you understand it, but still it requires that extra level of acceptance and surrender to allow the feelings and the realization to permeate your mind and your body. And then something that might have felt like suffering feels like something that's a phenomenon that's transient that you understand a little better.

[42:44]

If nothing else, you understand it a little better and you have a little more compassion for it. And as you work with it and you understand it, then being open and accepting then you can find the skillful means with which to deal with that situation. And those skillful means can be anything from, you know, dogesan or psychotherapy or going on a diet or whatever they are. Those skillful means can appear if you have a big wide field for your suffering and can hold all of the potential. So, you're going to be fine. Yes, Judy. So I'm noticing on this day of Susheen that language can be tricky, so I have to be very mindful to touch into and embody a period of these words.

[43:53]

And so when I hear understanding, some of what James was speaking to comes up. It's not figuring it out, and it's not necessarily knowing that there's any kind of solidity to this is the cause, and this is the, you know, it's not a linear, right, it's infinite, but the sense you know, very viscerally and sometimes you just feel searingly painful intimacy, uh, you know, and acknowledging this is, this is. Yeah. I mean, that's the total acceptance, the total acceptance. Yeah. say recently in a workshop on death and dying that used to think the word was acceptance, like the raw state of being.

[45:04]

But now he says acceptance is really just in the beginning. It's really surrender. To surrender you can't plan. It's a miracle that reveals itself. So I wonder, how do you How do you practice with this interplay of really returning to this is, which I certainly experience as either that acknowledgement or acceptance, and something that we have no control over. Um, for me personally, um, I have to really very, very consciously, uh, use my breath and, um, and ground myself, um, um, and make sure that I'm totally present in my body and grounded.

[46:18]

Um, and then I need to jump off the hundred foot pole. There's a, there's a, there's something that happens that's an opening if you leave enough of a space for an opening. If the dialogue is calmed, if the monkey mind is calm, then just stay completely and be as open and aware, and then the miracle can happen. Yeah, John. Thank you for a wonderful talk. You really laid out the power of identifying and naming what's going on and trying to get at what's going on as a state. And I wonder, because it's useful to me and I think it's useful to everyone, but I heard this phrase just yesterday.

[47:24]

to a passing thing would be delusional, but a name is nonetheless useful. That's a dance. I think that's a dance. That's a dance. The other thing is, of course, don't believe what you think. And there was something in one of these things I read about an older person who said, I've spent my life worrying about problems that I never had. And that's that, you know, is this, and you have to just, you're in the moment, you have an observation and sometimes that observation feels like, ah, there's a, ah, there's a, ah, in your body. Ah. Get it now? Then you have to write it down. At one point, at somewhere in this thing, Thich Nhat Hanh does what, suggested what Hoseon used to do, which was, he probably still does, has a little pad by his cushion.

[48:38]

So when those ahs come, because they disappear so quickly, that you write down your ah in a hurry. That's not why I do it. I write it down not to remember. I write it down so I can let it go. Ah. I write it down because if I could, Oh, great. That's a great thing. There's a good tip. Another tip. I think we're going to write, we're going to put that in here. We'll give out, from now on, we'll give out little pieces of paper and pencils. Yeah. Write it down, then you can burn it. Yeah, that's great. You can eat it for nourishment. Does anybody, anything else? Sojin didn't say something. Yes. Not don't believe anything you think. That was a misspoken. Thank you for that. That was misspoken.

[49:41]

That's all you have to say. Eric, just Eric had one more question. Yeah. Um, so you were the Tenzo a couple of days ago and I wonder, can you share a little, what's the difference between sort of attending to suffering in the kitchen, for instance, and then on the cushion, what's, what's happening that's different? Nothing. So same thing. At one step at a time, one step at a time, what has to happen in this moment? The minute you get ahead of yourself, the minute you get self-conscious, the minute you worry about if it's gonna be good or not, you're dead. You just have to just, okay, I did the preparation, I write it down, got the help I need, Boil, take it off the heat, drain, put in bowl. That's it. And absolutely stay grounded.

[50:54]

Absolutely go back to your grounding while you're doing it. The minute you feel, you know, the minute you get attached to something, you know, like I was attached to, I was really going to get the brownies done. really early this time and I was so sure I was so I was Alex with me we were we had such fun doing the brownies and together we did it so quickly and they were in the oven and whatever and then all of a sudden they weren't quite done when they were supposed to be so then there was just a few moments of suffering not much because there was only a few minutes the suffering increases according to the minutes yes Well, yeah, maybe, but I had my moment of like, oh my God, they're not gonna be done anyway. So that's just the same as Zazen. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's obviously sitting, there's nowhere to go, right?

[51:54]

Yeah. A kitchen, there's like, chop the onions and don't worry about the soup for a second, right? So it's, I think there, you know, it'd be interesting to sort of like really apply, like why is it, it seems to me, in walking life, that's easy to attend to walking light, the sufferings that come up, and there's many. Then sitting. Well, sitting is kind of designed for us to have to feel it and not bypass it. So we provide a container for us to really practice hard practice of being with the suffering in a focused way so that we can work with it a little bit. We can really get to know it. when we're busy, but in the kitchen, it's really, you just, you really have to, it's one, and many of the jobs, whatever they are, it's just this, if you keep in your breath and you keep doing the motions, the physical motions that you're supposed to be doing, it's, you can stay as focused.

[52:58]

And you have to deal with all the feelings that come up, but you have to still breathe and you have to still cut the carrots.

[53:05]

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