Paramita of Concentration

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Okay, and the most interesting thing is that I've known Ellen since we were 16 and 15. We were in a concert band together at Berkeley High, and she played the timpani drums, and I played the snare drums. And we grew up, we were teenagers about six blocks apart up at the Berkeley Hills. She's an old-timer in that particular way, too. So as most of you know, we're in the second week of Aspects of Practice. Senior group collaborates to put this on for a month. And the theme this year, 2019, are the Paramitas. Paramita, as you know, we usually call the perfections, but if you look at the origin of the word, it's not really like the word perfection in English, because it suggests something like crossing over and moving from one thing to the next or to the other.

[01:16]

you know, some kind of process, I would call it, Tibetans call it transcendent process. So I like the word transcendent in terms of the paramejas. Transcendent from maybe ignorance to wisdom. And if I had, you know, I always try to come up with my own words for things that are common words just so I know how I would express it, but I don't expect anybody else to. So what I would call the parmitas are transcendent focuses. What we focus on, they're transcendent, not this kind of transcendent, like going up to heaven or something, but actually grounding and sanity, that kind of transcendence from our kind of usual civilized craziness. And just to recap, the paramitas are giving or generosity, morality, patience, energy or vigor, concentration slash meditation, and wisdom or prajna.

[02:36]

And so the paramita I'm going to talk about this morning is the fifth, which is strictly speaking concentration. But over the years of meditation development in humanity, It used to be just called, it was just concentration, but as time went on, they added meditation into it. They didn't want to separate it so much. So depending on the group you're practicing with, it could be more emphasis on meditation or concentration. The two go together, obviously, but they're just different aspects. So I just say concentration slash meditation. And one way you could look at these paramitas is as a grouping of the first four being skillful means and the last two being wisdom. So putting wisdom together with skillful means, you can actualize that intelligence and that insight.

[03:44]

then you have to ask, skillful means becomes a kind of cliche. Oh yeah, I know what skillful means means. But I would say, skillful means, harmonizing means to what? Means to what? So I would say that harmonizing with reality actually, that it's a means to harmonize with what's sane and what's real, what's true. The Sanskrit word for concentration meditation is dhyana. And dhyana is our name. Zen comes from the word dhyana. So we're the Berkeley Dhyana Center, actually. Sanskrit evolved in Chinese into, starting out in India, evolved in Chinese into Chana, which became Chan, and Chan, when Chan moves into Japan, it becomes Zen.

[05:00]

And then Zen comes to America and we keep it Zen because it's such a cool word. We don't want to lose that word. So maybe someday. I can't imagine changing it from Zen. It's just a really nice word. So I wanted to kind of give a very rough, sketchy, developmental background of meditation and concentration. in humanity, and then specializing, narrowing it down to Soto Zen. My reason for doing it is because I think it's important to know where we come from, you know, that we're not just plopped here at BGC and Berkeley, and without some sense of really what we're doing, How did this come to be that we're doing this? It's a very simple practice that we do, so you think, well, what's the big deal? But actually, it's not so simple. To actually do what we do took a lot of people a lot of years to kind of

[06:05]

Try this and try that and move towards this and move towards that to get to where we are today. It's just like knowing your own family background. You know, your grandparents, your great-grandparents, maybe somebody in your family background was the original immigrant over to America. Just knowing how that all worked is important for knowing where we are. and what our context is. So the problem with that is it can get very lengthy. You can spend months on it, and it's interesting. So I'll keep it sketchy and I'll try not to drag it out, make it boring or too detailed. I've just picked several instances that I think were important landmarks in the development of meditation and concentration. ending with where we are. So pictorial descriptions of people meditating go back between four and five thousand years.

[07:10]

Cave paintings in India, they just say wall paintings, so I assume those are in caves, four to five thousand years ago. And the first time that meditation shows up in the written record is in the Vedas in Hinduism, maybe 1500 BC. So already a thousand years before Buddha, people are doing meditation in Hinduism. And I'm just confining this to Asia. I'm going to leave the Western world out of it. Then, you know, 500 BC, Buddha comes along. He... I won't go into that. Mostly you know his story, so I won't reiterate that story. But Buddha preaches for, I think, something like 40 to 50 years.

[08:14]

He dies in his 80s, I believe. is all this, they remember what he said, and this becomes the sutras that we have to work with. And a really, you know, like a really, what do you call it? The iconic sutra of Buddha's, it comes from the Middle Length Discourses, is the Anapanasati Sutra, with the full awareness of the mindfulness of breathing. And in this sutra, I mean, I'm just saying that there's a number of sutras which, many sutras, which mention meditation. But in this particular sutra, it's pretty easy to relate to because you start out just paying attention to your breath, just like we do. I would say most people here, most likely, pay, use attention and

[09:16]

being our breath, really paying attention and being aware of our breath as our practice. I'm assuming that. I don't think everybody does that, or people can do variations of that, but I think that's a really predominant, fundamental, basic practice. And in the sutra they just describe, the beginning of the sutra describes, you know, you know when it's a long breath, you know when it's a short breath, and you just get absorbed in your breathing. But then it moves on to, and now that you're breathing and you're really, you're in tune with your breath and settled on your breath, now you can begin to contemplate wisdom or the dharmas. In particular, I mean, a good example, like the three marks of existence, suffering, impermanence, and no self. So now, at the same time as you're paying attention to your breathing,

[10:20]

you're also contemplating impermanence, putting them together. So you have the wisdom of understanding change and flux at the same time as being settled in something that's not conceptual. It's actually just simply your bodily functions. It doesn't matter what you're thinking, you're still going to be breathing. So putting those two together makes a complete practice. And this is in basically 500 BC that he came up with that. Then we come into the next step, or not, what I want to point out, the next step I want to point out, exactly, is in the 500s Bodhidharma comes along and brings Buddhism, excuse me, I just, I skipped, I skipped, no, I didn't. So Bodhidharma, 500 years, or 1,000 years actually, after Buddha, comes and brings Buddhism from India to China.

[11:29]

And Bodhidharma, his way of, his teacher was Prajnatara. Prajñātāra is in India and there's a koan in the Book of Serenity about Prajñātāra which describes his way of practicing. This is back in probably in the 400s. So a raja of an East Indian country invited the 27th Buddhist patriarch Prajñātāra to a feast. The raja asked him, why don't you read scriptures? The patriarch said, this poor wayfarer doesn't dwell in the realms of the body or mind when breathing in, doesn't get involved in myriad circumstances when breathing out. I always reiterate such a scripture, hundreds, thousands, millions of scrolls.

[12:32]

So this is Zen practice, basically. You know, it's not actually, it's not, it sounds pretty absolute, pretty black and white, but actually, it doesn't mean that there's no studying, or there's no ceremony, or there's no ritual, just that those are secondary to the actual practice of just sitting. And this was Bodhi, this was Prajnaparamita's way in a time when Buddhism was being very intellectualized. So Bodhidharma takes that, brings it to China, and his way of expressing that is to go sit in a cave for nine years and look at the wall. It's not quite that simple, obviously, he's doing other things, and he's got a little temple there. But that's his practice. And just a little a way of expressing what Bodhidharma said. By the way, these things that people are saying that I'm going to read are

[13:39]

not historically accurate. There are probably things that were concocted later oftentimes, so it doesn't matter really so much to me. It's more a matter of, you know, what are they conveying about practice? What's important for them to try to express and convey, whether it's historically accurate or not? So, Bodhidharma, just a little quote from him is, if you can simply concentrate your mind's inner light and behold its outer illumination, which is prajna, you'll dispel the three poisons which are greed, hate, greed, anger and delusion. and drive away the six thieves, which are our senses, once and for all. And without effort, you will gain possession of an infinite number of virtues, perfections and doors to the truth. Seeing through the mundane and witnessing the sublime is less than an eye-blink away.

[14:45]

Realization is now. Why worry about gray hair? The true door is hidden and can't be revealed. I have only touched upon beholding the mind." So this beholding the mind starts to become a prevalent theme. In other words, rather than see meditation practice as trying to gain a certain state of consciousness that you've heard about or that people say is good or great, rather than trying to attain a certain state of consciousness, it's just looking is not quite... I don't know what else to say. Perceiving how our own mind works, not from an analytical perspective so much, although you can include that, but just actually being aware of how our mind is working. This is a pretty radical approach to meditation and Buddhism.

[15:47]

because it doesn't involve trying to attain a kind of system that's already been outlined. It's just looking within, which is what Buddha did, actually. Huineng comes along in the 600s and he's the sixth ancestor. And Huineng actually furthers, you know, continues this kind of line of practice. He says, again trying to get away from the conceptual aspect of practice, or overly relying on that, he says, the fact that the basis of mind is without any wrong is the ethics of one's own nature. The fact that the basis of the mind is without disturbance is the meditation of one's own nature.

[16:52]

The fact that the basis of mind is without ignorance is the wisdom of one's own nature. When we understand our own nature, we do not set up ethics, meditation, and wisdom, since our nature is without wrong, disturbance, or ignorance. In every moment of thought, prajna illuminates. Hmm, that's interesting. Always free from the attributes of things, what is there to set up? So again, it's continuing this line of practice, which is looking within and not presuming anything, just looking within and actually having trust or faith in the way we actually are, truly are, rather than trying to be a model of what we could be or think we should be.

[17:55]

Then moving along into the 1100s, this wonderful teacher, Hung Jee, is a poet and, like I say, he's a great teacher. I just have some feel for his practice or his words. Hung Hsieh is in, what's the, Kaodong, I think is how you say it in Chinese, Kaodong. He's in that school, it's a Soto school, and he's following along with the same line of development that we've been talking about. And he creates a poem called The Signpost of Silent Illumination. And it basically is describing what I've already described. There's a kind of refinement to the way that he makes this poem, which I can't get into right now.

[19:03]

But basically the idea is you just sit and you're aware of your body. Silence is your mind is silent. Thoughts can come in. It's not just like, oh no, there can be no thoughts. Thoughts can come in, but fundamentally our minds are quiet at that point if you're practicing silent illumination. At the same time, you're aware of your body, you're aware of the environment. If you hear a siren, you don't need to go chasing the drama of the siren, but you hear, oh, there's a siren. Whereas a strict concentration practice, you can just be totally absorbed in what you're concentrating on. and actually lose contact with your surroundings in samadhi, which is what concentration is actually called. Samadhi, there are samadhi states where you just lose contact with your environment. Quick story of Shu, what's his name?

[20:09]

Floating Cloud, in English, Shu Yun. Anyway, he was basically the last Zen teacher in China before the Communists came in. He was a wonderful teacher, lived to be over 100 years old, and traveled all over China, actually setting up little temples. And the story goes, he was traveling, he sat down at a campfire one night, out in the mountains someplace, middle of nowhere, and cooked a meal, and then started doing meditation. went into samadhi. And then when he next opened his eyes, he looked down at his food and there was mold growing all over his food. So it had been several days since he went into that. So that's the kind of concentration, absolute concentration practice. But silent illumination is not that. Silent illumination is awareness practice with a quiet or calm mind and awareness, but not chasing that awareness anyplace, as I understand it.

[21:23]

And then so he just wrote this poem about this and called it that, A Rinzai teacher, Dao Wiyi, who was a friend of his, who was practicing at the same time and had his own group, very great teacher, actually, basically the first person to actually really have a koan-oriented practice. was critical of Hongji's students because he thought they were just sort of caught up in a kind of a lethargic dead, you know, and just sort of sitting there like this, no vitality like with koans, you know, where you shout and you hit stuff and you, you know, do stuff that's really dynamic. But they really got along, the two teachers got along just fine. And we said, well, I'm critical of your students, but I liked that name that you gave that poem, Silent Illumination. So that stuck. A Rinzai teacher actually named this practice for the Soto group.

[22:27]

Interesting. Hangzhi was the abbot of Tingtong Mountain, and about somewhere within 50 years after he died, Rujing becomes the abbot of the same temple. And of course, Rujing is Dogen's teacher. Wu Jing takes the name Silent Illumination and decides to change it to Just Sitting, although in Chinese, but Just Sitting. And maybe it's a marketing move. Is this going to sell more because people will be more accessible? Just Sitting. So Dogen comes and they have this great relationship as many of you know about. And Dogen's in his early 20s, and Rui Jing's in his 60s.

[23:32]

And Dogen comes back to Japan having gone through an enlightenment experience and really feel like he's ready to be a teacher now. And he takes just sitting, and here's the end of Japanese, which becomes shikantaza. And then, so Dao Dogen wants to convey this practice to everybody. So he takes an existing introduction to meditation, which is from a Chinese source, And I think they're called zazengis. And he calls his fukan zazengi, which is something like the, it sounds very stiff, but universal promotion of the principles of zazen. There's got to be a better way to say that. And he basically keeps a lot of the old format, but he adds on some of his own wording.

[24:39]

But when he ... so there's a part where, you know, after you've kind of made an introduction, excuse me, where after you've made an introduction to meditation or zazen, and after you've settled your body and you know how to cross your legs and how to sit straight and so forth, then what do you do? What do you do next? What's your method? And so the formats that Dogen inherited says, if you sit for a long period forgetful of objects, your mind will naturally become unified. Sounds pretty good." So, Dogen keeps that. He said, that's okay, that's pretty good. And then, I don't know, maybe within the next ten years, he revises the fukanzas, after having practiced and taught and had more experience, and says, no, that's not good enough.

[25:53]

I want to change that wording. So instead of saying that, he says, now that you've settled your posture, Think not thinking. How do you think not thinking? Non-thinking. This is the essential art of zazen. And zazen is not the practice of dhyana. That's really radical. Zazen is not the practice of dhyana. And, think not thinking, this pivotal instruction for introduction to zazen, this pivotal instruction actually is a koan that comes from a Rinzai background, I think from the Yaoshan, I think probably in the 700s. So Dogen, who's the quintessential Soto teacher, takes a Rinzai koan as the key instruction for how to practice zazen.

[26:59]

And think-not-thinking is interesting. This is just personal. My feeling about think-not-thinking is don't worry about it. Just do it. You don't need to analyze it. That's not logical. How can you think not thinking? That doesn't make any sense. Don't worry about it. Just do it. And then whatever happens, that's fine. Just go there and find out. So that's the way I think about it, actually. I'm not advocating that. I'm just saying that's how I see it. Then we come into, of course, Suzuki Roshi and Sojin. Suzuki Roshi... I'm going to keep it short because I want to talk about some other things.

[28:06]

This is from Not Always So in his chapter on true concentration. To appreciate things and people, our mind needs to be calm and clear. So we practice zazen or just sitting without any gaining idea. At this time, you are you yourself. You settle yourself on yourself. And I think that's basically, it's not so different and probably the same as just looking into one's own mind that Bodhidharma was talking about and Huineng was talking about. Just settling yourself on yourself. With this practice we have freedom. But it may not be the freedom you mean and the freedom Zen Buddhists mean are not the same. To attain freedom, we cross our legs, keep our posture upright, and let our eyes and ears be open to everything. This readiness or openness, and readiness or openness are really key, is important because we are liable to go to extremes and stick to something.

[29:12]

In this way, we may lose our calmness or mirror-like mind. And Suzuki Roshi was all about no gaining mind, no gaining idea. And then we have Sojin. And my experience with Sojin is, what's his message? Other than his personality, which as far as I'm concerned is his main message. I can say this because he's not here. But Sojin, verbally, is constantly coming back to duality and non-duality. and how the two intersect, and particularly stressing non-duality. When I asked him a question in Shosan, what does ordinary mind, he said, holy. In other words, he was saying the opposite of ordinary, which is holy. In other words, get rid of your dualistic idea about what ordinary is, is what he was really getting at.

[30:16]

I find it kind of irritating, actually, but that's his way. So dualism and non-dualism is his message. And also, non-dualism is his message, but the interaction of dualism and non-dualism is what he's talking about. And also, not clinging to self, not being self-centered. Those are his main points that he comes back to over and over again. And I don't know, probably 50 times I've heard him use the analogy of the waves in the ocean. I mean, probably everybody else has noticed that too, if you've been around for a long time. And the waves are the essence and, excuse me, the ocean is the essence and the waves are the function. And he comes back to that analogy over and over and over again.

[31:22]

So, that's where we are today in Ron's chronology. There's an aspect of the Paramitas, practicing the Paramitas, which is, you could call character building. Character building could be problematic if it's egocentric. So how do you build character without being egocentrically attached to it? You know, so-and-so was really irritating the other day, but I was very patient with him.

[32:27]

I really was patient with him. And, you know, this person did this terrible thing. It was so stupid. But I was compassionate about how I dealt with that person. So you have to be careful about that. And this is where prajna comes in. Prajna offers parental guidance to all of the paramitas. As long as you have prajna, as long as you include wisdom in your character development, then you won't get, hopefully you'll hold us back from falling into being self-centered or all the other kind of attachments that we have.

[33:31]

So it's a kind of a a guide for how to practice. And actually the question that came up to me in my mind was, okay, well it's easy to practice meditation, practice razazan, but how do you practice prajna? And all, you know, if you look at throughout, in the instances I was reading about, I was reading teacher after teacher recognizes the fact, this is in Theravadan Buddhism as well as Zen, that you need these two sides. You need what's called shamatha, which is calm abiding, this zazen with a calm mind, shamatha, and also prajna, which is a wisdom practice of no-self, impermanence, suffering, and so forth, and how that all works, and seeing that not just conceptually, And those two going together make a complete practice. If you only have one, wisdom practice can become very conceptual.

[34:34]

And yeah, you know it backwards and forwards, but it's all still up here. Or if you just only practice shamatha, yes, you're very settled and calm, but you haven't really gotten to the heart of where is this self-centeredness coming from, really. So how do you put these two together to support each other? Here's something that Suzuki Roshi says about self-improvement. Your culture is based on ideas of self-improvement. The idea of improvement is rather scientific. In the scientific sense, improvement means that instead of going to Japan by ship, now you can go by jumbo jet, and soon to the moon even. So improvement is based on comparative value, which is also the basis of our society and our economy. Now he's saying this in the 60s.

[35:35]

He says, I understand that you are rejecting the idea of civilization, but you are not rejecting the idea of improvement. You still try to improve something. Perhaps most of you sit to improve your zazen, but Buddhists do not hold so strongly to the idea of improvement. So how can we practice the paramitas without this sort of egocentric idea of improving. As I say that, I think there is a way of wanting to improve. but it's a gentle improvement. It's not a grandiose kind of improvement. Wanting to improve, I think, if it's sincere, is fine. I think Suzuki Roshi was talking about when people are just going too far in that direction, too much so, and that Basically, they're not accepting who they actually are and trying to be something else as part of the problem.

[36:43]

So how do you be who you actually are and at the same time would like to improve? That's a good question. And then finally, how does the Paramitas link up with the Bodhisattva path? And it is a bodhisattva path. One of the books that we picked as a reference for this practice period is Pema Chodron's commentary on Shantideva's The Way of the Bodhisattva, which includes a whole section on the Paramitas. Shantideva was, I think it's in the 700s, 700s, Indian monk, wonderful, Jesus-like personality, who had just traveled, a mendicant monk who just traveled around and preached, and very sincere and very earnest, wanted to help people.

[37:54]

And Pema Chodron comments that, and I don't know where she gets this, I don't think it was from Shanti Davis, but in her commentary, and by the way, she's an original disciple of Chögyam Trungpa, who I had experience with in the early 70s, and as far as I'm concerned, a wonderful, brilliant teacher. controversial, but I always found him to be totally trustworthy. She's a student of Trungpa's, and she says there's three modalities for bodhisattva practice that you can, if you're thinking about how paramitas link with a bodhisattva practice, Or if a bodhisattva practice seems like it sounds very ideal and kind of almost mythical, you know, how do you bring bodhisattva practice down to, down may not be the right word, but just how do you bring bodhisattva practice to the ground so that it's not something that's

[39:08]

too idealistic, but actually something that is everyday affair. So she says there's three modalities. One is the king or queen modality, which is somebody like Trungpa, actually, who grew up as a kind of a... He's a designated tolku in the Tibetan lineage, and so he had the best teachers in the world at the time. He was like three years old. And then when he became a teacher, he created the Shambhala, ideal, which is based on a kind of court, kind of monarchy or court system, which worked when he was alive. As soon as he died, though, it fell apart because people's egos got in the way, and you can imagine what happened. It became an ego trip for the group, and they've had a lot of problems, actually, since then. But so the king or queen practice, where you want to work on yourself first, and then when you feel you've come to that point where you're able to be of benefit, then you begin to help people.

[40:23]

So that's one way. And for one kind of personality type. Second modality would be the ferryman, the person who manages the ferry. And you just help people, you assist people. All you want to do is be of assistance to help people on their path. You don't have the answers or know exactly what they should do or not do. You just want to help them get to where they are interested in or what they're trying to do. Help them to do that. Herman Hesse's book Siddhartha uses that model actually for Siddhartha. I won't go into that, but when I was in high school Hesse was kind of saved my life as something that really felt relevant to me versus high school. And I read that. And so Siddhartha, I don't want to go into the whole story, but anyway, he becomes, after going through a life of kind of turmoil and big conflict, he eventually settles on just running the ferry for people.

[41:34]

And he's totally happy doing that. That's what he wants to do. And it's the right place for him to be. And then the third modality is shepherd. And shepherd just looks after their flock. And Sojin is a shepherd. For 50 plus years, he's been doing this. And... My experience of him has always been that he may be cranky or being this mood or that mood, but he's always accessible and always willing to help in some way if he can. And looking after things, constantly looking after things with insight. when my wife and I were in Spain coming down out of a park, a big kind of a natural park in the countryside, we came upon a shepherd coming up the hill with, I think, goats.

[42:48]

And the lead was a, what do you call the dogs that shepherd? What is it? No, but there's a generic. Sheepdog, a sheepdog. A sheepdog was in the front. And the sheepdog, we were going down the hill, the sheepdog saw us and stopped and looked at us really hard. And I remember the look in that dog's eyes, and it was so intelligent and unemotional actually, just like, are you a danger to us or not? And as soon as he or she could see that we weren't a danger, then she just totally forgot about us, let us go, no problem. But that instant of checking us out, she was a shepherd. She was making sure that her responsibility was being taken care of. And when she knew it was, then she didn't have to worry about it anymore.

[43:51]

So, that really stuck with me. I still remember the look in the dog's eyes. So, I'm sorry I didn't leave enough time. I have about five minutes for comments and questions, so please do. Peter? I think in a cosmic sense you could say that. But yeah, I think you're right. It just depends the degree you want to look at it from. Yeah.

[45:13]

Yes, but the other... it's acting in accord with what is real. That's important. The other part of me does not necessarily... you could have an inflated idea about what generosity is. You know, it could be an unreal kind of personal aggrandizement about it. So I think meditation and wisdom are in touch with what's real, and the other part of me just hopefully are, but not as close to that. This is just off the cuff. No, I'm not.

[46:17]

Oh, yeah, I know. No, everybody knows about that book very much so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[47:19]

Yeah. Although, I'm always a contrarian, so... So, as soon as I hear... I get what he's saying, and I agree with that. But then the problem with the word understanding is that most people are going to hear it as conceptual, or could easily interpret it as, well, I understand what that means. Everything is in permanency. Everything is changing. I understand that. No problem. But you don't really understand it. It's got something more than mentally understanding it. You have to actually embody that and I don't know what words you can use for that. Also, imagination is a big part of his book. And Jerry mentioned that in her talk last week. Everybody knows that Norman was one of the original members of the BCC back in the 70s. his loss, and it was a Saturday talk, somebody asked him, he said, he very quickly responded, somebody said, what is Prajna?

[48:39]

And he said, intimacy. But that works as long as you have this other idea first, and then you move over to intimacy. But if you just start with the word intimacy, people are going to go, what? What's that mean? Right, right. Well, it was in the context of... Yeah, I understand. It was in the context of the Paramitas. We were talking about all the Paramitas as Prajnaparamitas, and Prajnaparamitas this activating factor, and the factor that's activating, think of all the other five, what he was saying was intimacy. It goes back to what Su was saying about the relationality, relation to oneself and relation to all other beings and things.

[49:44]

Yeah. I would say, I like the word intimacy a lot, but I also would say awareness. If I came up with my word, it would be, when you move through your day, when you, if I'm worried about, concerned about my self-image, I'm aware that this is attachment to self. A little tiny bell goes off. Okay, doesn't mean I can stop doing it, but I'm aware that that's happening. And there's an intimacy with that, which is you're intimate with actually how your mind is working. And you're in tune with that. I just, can I say one more thing? Okay, that's okay. Sojin has often preferred the factors of enlightenment, he keeps the factors of enlightenment to teaching the paramitas. And in the factors of enlightenment, there's a lot of redundancy. And in the factors of enlightenment, one of the factors of enlightenment is mindfulness.

[50:48]

So that speaks to what you were saying, Yeah. The words are tricky. I think we have to stop, and we really do. I'll be outside if you want to talk more. All right. Thank you.

[51:11]

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