Good morning. Good evening. Well, this is the last week of practice period, and this is the last class. We saved the best for last. I'm going to talk about a female ancestor tonight, or actually several of them.

[01:00]

I originally thought or planned to talk about Moshan or Matsuzan, Ryōnen. But in unraveling her story, all the threads, well, all the roads led to Rome. And it kept leading back to this one story in particular. which most, I would say a fair amount of koans or Chan stories about women's Zen masters and disciples refer to this story. So if you don't know the story, you kind of don't have the key to unlock the gate of this particular aspect of our practice, or women in Buddhism, their practice, and our women ancestors.

[02:13]

The other thing I wanted to say something about was something that I think is on a number of people's minds, which is Actually, Lori touched on it a little bit in her Saturday talk, which is how women in Buddhism have been viewed over the ages. And like Lori, I'm really happy to have this practice, and I don't think about it too much, but it does come up from time to time. Not so much these days, but when I first came here, we were still chanting the names of the patriarchs. And I don't really remember what I thought of that at the time, what that meant to me. I think I was more worried about memorizing them and being able to chant them by heart.

[03:21]

But when I took lay ordination and got my kechimiyaku, which is the lineage paper, the bloodline. I unfolded it and I was the only woman on it. And it struck me at the time that I didn't like that very much. So I wrestled with that a little bit, and I finally thought, well, that's one way of looking at it. And that's kind of my attitude these days when I see lineage charts without women's names on it. So I wanted to bring that up, but it's not

[04:29]

the thrust of my talk tonight. It might become that. As I read along here, that might become that. So first I'm going to read, and I made copies for everyone, and let's say you could I think there's enough. An excerpt from the Raihai Tokuzui, which is by Dogen Zenji. And it's also called, or in English, it's Bowing to Attainment of the Marrow. Anyway, this is just a little handout that I'm not reading from tonight, but you might want to look into it, into the rest of it.

[05:40]

While we're doing this, I'm not sure if other people get confused about the different schools of Zen and the ancestors and where they are in history and such. So I also made copies of this lineage chart that I think Gene Selfkirk and Ross Blum put together quite a number of years ago now. It doesn't go right up to 2004. Someday. Anyway, so those are just for you to take home and enjoy if you would like. So Dogen says, most difficult for the person engaged in training for supreme perfect enlightenment is to find a guide.

[06:51]

It is irrelevant whether a guide has male or female characteristics and the like. What counts is that the guide be a being of virtue, of vestness. One need not be of the past or of the present. Even the spirit of a wild fox may be a qualified mentor. Such is the way of the attainment of the marrow. A mentor guides and assists without obscuring cause and effect. and may well be you, me, or another. Shakyamuni Buddha said, when you meet a mentor who expounds supreme enlightenment, you should notice neither its lineage nor its appearance, or concern yourself with its conduct. Because you treasure wisdom alone, you should feed it daily hundreds of thousands of tales in gold. Pay homage to it by offering heavenly meals and sprinkling celestial flowers.

[07:54]

Ever since I first aroused my mind, I have applied myself to training in this manner and have now attained supreme perfect enlightenment. So in this fascicle, Dogen is basically saying that all beings have the Buddha nature. And I think throughout these classes and this theme that we've had during this practice period, we've also been talking about something underlying all that, which is transmission of the Dharma. I can't see you. My little head peeking out of there. And this mind-to-mind transmission, which Well, what is that mind-to-mind transmission?

[09:00]

And what is this thread that runs through all the ancestors, all the way through our teacher here, Sojourn Roshi? And what kind of dharma was that that he got from Suzuki Roshi? I think there is mind-to-mind transmission from teacher to student, from student to teacher, but it's... The teacher is just the finger pointing to the moon, and the mind that's transmitted is the Buddha mind. It's not like Sojin Roshi's mind, it's Buddha mind that's transmitted, we all have, we may not just be aware of it right now. And this includes women.

[10:01]

Bodhidharma said, not dependent on words and speech, transmission from mind to mind. Zen master Sung San said, to open your mouth is already a mistake. And Unmon said, every day is a good day. So, you know, Shakyamuni Buddha was sitting and saw the morning star and that was his transmission. And then he held up a flower to the assembly and only Maha Kshapa smiled and understood. And then from there, that was the beginning of our tradition. So this tradition was passed to China through Bodhidharma, and then from Bodhidharma to the second patriarch until the sixth patriarch, and then the sixth patriarch's lineage developed into the five schools of Zen.

[11:12]

So you may wonder why I'm explaining all this to you, but it has to do with these stories that I'm about to tell you, or begin to tell you. A lot of the reason why we don't hear about women is because there are these popular texts that have been studied for a long time. And unless you're very scholarly or want to create your own wheel, you return to these popular texts and perhaps write your own commentary on these texts. So that's one reason why we hear about the same ones over and over again, although there are some texts, quite a few texts, with women in them that are popular and that we hear about as well. But mostly it's exchanges between teachers and their male students A lot of Zen stories about women are... And I'm talking about not women in Buddhism, but specifically Zen stories have a theme running through them, which is, why don't you change your body?

[12:41]

And the reason for this is, I gather, the male body was considered an image for the perfection of mind. There are these 32 marks of a Buddha, including the male form. And the transformation of gender represented a transition from the imperfection, of human beings or the female body to the mental perfection of Bodhisattvas and Buddhas in the male form or the male body. So there's good reasons why this has kind of come around to this. One of the I guess the thread that I followed that came up the most that I wanted to read about was the story of the Naga princess, because quite a number of these stories refer to this section in the chapter in the Lotus Sutra called Devadatta, which has the story of the Naga princess.

[14:04]

Nagas are serpent-like creatures with human faces and lower extremities that look like snakes. And they dwell in the depths of the rivers and lakes and oceans. In the oceans, they live in water palaces. And they're the guardians of all the treasures of the sea. They're also thought of as the protectors of the source of life and viewed as equally destructive and beneficial and always alluring and kind of mysterious. So this is in chapter 12 or 11 in the Lotus Sutra. It's a little long, but I want to read it more than I want to read anything else.

[15:23]

The circumstances of this is Buddha is talking to the assembly and they are about to depart and he says, but wait, here comes Manjusri. Let's ask him what he thinks. And so Manjusri has been visiting the Srigara Dragon King. And so he springs up from the bottom of the ocean and, here we go, taking up his place in the sky, he advanced to the divine vulture peak, alighted from his lotus flower, went before the Buddha and reverently made obeisance at the feet of the two World Honored Ones. The Bodhisattva asked Manjusri, Virtuous sir, since you went to the Dragon Palace, how many beings have you converted? Manjusri answered, Their numbers are immeasurable.

[16:30]

They cannot be calculated nor expressed in words nor fathomed by the mind. Just wait a moment. One must bring the proof. Before he had finished speaking, numberless bodhisattvas sitting on jeweled lotus flowers sprang up from the sea, advanced to the divine vulture peak, and took up their places in the sky. All these bodhisattvas had been converted and saved by Manjusri. Then said Manjusri to one bodhisattva, such has been the result of my course of instruction in the ocean. Then the Bodhisattva wisdom accumulation extolled him thus in verse. Expounding the principle of reality and revealing the one vehicle law, extensively hast thou led living beings to attain with speed Bodhi? Manjusri replied, that which I in the midst of the ocean always proclaimed was no other than the wonderful law flower sutra. The Bodhisattva asked Manjusri,

[17:36]

This sutra is very profound and subtle, the pearl of all the sutras, a rare thing in the world. Is there any being who diligently and zealously practicing this sutra can attain speedily Buddhahood?" Manjusri replied, There's the daughter of the Dragon King Shigara, just eight years old, wise and of keen faculties, well acquainted with the karma arising from the roots of action of all creatures, who has obtained Dharani, has been able to receive and keep all the most profound and mystic treasuries revealed by Buddhas, and has deeply entered into meditations and penetrated into all laws. In a moment of time, she resolved on Bodhi and attained non-relapse into mortality. She has unembarrassed powers of argument and a compassionate mind for all living as if they were her children. Her merits are complete and the thoughts of her mind and explanations of her mouth are both subtle and great. Kind and compassionate, virtuous and modest, gentle and beautiful in her disposition, she has been able to attain Bodhi.

[18:45]

The Bodhisattva said, I have seen how Shakyamuni Tathagata, during innumerable kalpas, in doing arduous and painful deeds, accumulating merit and heaping up virtue, sought the way of the Bodhi ceaselessly without rest. I have observed that in the three thousand great thousandfold world, there is not even a spot, as small as a mustard seed, where he has not laid down his body and life as a Bodhisattva for the sake of the living. And only after that did he attain Bodhi. It is incredible that this girl, in but a moment, should become perfectly enlightened. Before he had ceased talking, the daughter of the Dragon King suddenly appeared before them. And after making reverent obeisance to the Buddha, withdrew to one side, extolling him in verse. Profound of insight into sin and blessedness, he illuminates the universe. His spiritual body, ethereal and pure, has the 32 perfect signs.

[19:51]

With the 80 kinds of excellence is his spiritual body adorned. He to whom gods and men look up, dragons and spirits pay reverence, and all species of living beings do worship and honor. That having heard the truth, I attain Bodhi. Only the Buddha may bear witness. I will reveal the teaching of the great vehicle which delivers creatures from suffering. Thereupon, Shariputra said to the girl of the dragon, You state that in no length of time you attain the supreme way. This thing is hard to believe. Wherefore? Because the body of a woman is impure and not a vessel of the law. How can she attain Supreme Bodhi? The Buddha way is so vast that only after passing through innumerable kalpas, enduring hardship, accumulating good works, and perfectly practicing the perfections can it be accomplished. Moreover, a woman by her body still has five hindrances. She cannot become first, king of the Brahma heaven, second, chakra, third, Amara king, fourth, a holy wheel rolling king,

[21:00]

and fifth, a Buddha. How then could a woman's body so speedily become a Buddha? Now the dragon's daughter possessed a precious pearl worth a 3,000 great thousand-fold world, which he held up and presented to the Buddha, and which the Buddha immediately accepted. The dragon's daughter then said to the Bodhisattva and the honored Shariputra, I have offered my pearl and the world honored one has accepted it. Was this action speedy?" They answered, most speedy. The daughter said, by your supernatural powers behold me become a Buddha even more rapidly than that. At that moment, the entire congregation saw the dragon's daughter suddenly transformed into a male, perfect in Bodhisattva deeds, who instantly went to the world spotless in the southern quarter where she sat on a precious lotus flower attaining perfect enlightenment with the 32 signs and the 80 kinds of excellence and universally proclaiming the wonderful law to all living creatures in the universe.

[22:09]

Then the Saha world of Bodhisattvas, Sravakas, the eight groups of gods and dragons and human and non-human beings, all from afar beholding the dragon's daughter, become a Buddha and universally preach the law to gods, men, and others. Amongst that congregation, all rejoiced greatly and made reverent salutation from afar. The countless multitude, oops, The countless multitude on hearing her preach, the Law, were aroused to apprehension and attained never sliding back into mortality. The countless multitude also received their prediction of the perfect way. The world spotless made the six-fold movement. So Hollywood. 3,000 living beings in the Saha world took up their abode in the stage of never returning to mortality, while 3,000 living beings set their minds on Bodhi and obtained their prediction of attaining it. The Bodhisattva wisdom accumulation and Shariputra and all the congregation silently believed.

[23:17]

This story, as well as this story of changing the body into a male form, as well as in Chinese folklore there's a female fox spirits change their bodies into female human form in order to allure men into relationships. when they're met with a challenging or superior power, they turn back into a fox, which is a different kind of fox spirit that Dogen is talking about in Raihai Tokuzui, which is more referring to a wild fox spirit is like somebody who's kind of overly mystical or not practical.

[24:32]

It's in the footnotes of that piece that I gave you. So here's a short story which includes this reference to the Naga girl. There was a nun who was studying with Lin Chi. She wanted to become an abbess of her own convent as a Chan teacher. Tan Gun looked her over and said, you have the five hindrances. You are not allowed to become an abbess and teacher. The nun said, The Naga girl became a Buddha. How many hindrances did she have? Tan Gung said, the Naga girl manifested 18 transformations. You try and see whether you can do one transformation. The nun said, I am not a wild fox spirit. What should I change into? So this is really similar to Moshan's story, which I'll get to later, Matsuzan's story.

[25:41]

This next story is a story about how a woman used her female form to teach. This is about Wuchu. and it's called Wuchu, Lodging in the Abbot's Quarters. This is rated PG. This story occurs in a collection of verses about famous Chan masters. Wan An relied on Dawei and served as his senior monk, the head monk of the Sangha Hall in which the monks in Chan training lived and studied. at Dawei's monastery on Jingshan. Before Wuchu had become a nun, she used to visit Dawei at Jingshan, and Dawei lodged her in the abbot's quarters. The head monk, Wan'an, always made disapproving noises.

[26:49]

Dawei said to him, Even though she is a woman, she has strengths. Wanan still did not approve. Dawei then insisted that he should interview her. Wanan reluctantly sent a message that he would go. When Wanan came, Wuchu said, will you make it a Dharma interview or a worldly interview? The head monk replied, a Dharma interview. Wuchu said, then let your attendants depart. She went in first, then called to him, please come in. When he came past the curtain, he saw Wuchu lying face upward on the bed without anything on at all. He pointed at her and said, what kind of place is this? Wuchu replied, all the Buddhas of the three worlds and the six ancestors and all the great monks everywhere, they all come out from within this. Wanan said,

[27:52]

and would you let me enter or not? Wuchu replied, it allows horses to cross, it does not allow asses to cross. Wanan said nothing and Wuchu declared, the interview with the senior monk is ended. She turned over and faced the inside. Wanan became embarrassed and left. Dawei said, it is certainly not the case that the old beast does not have any insight. Wanan was ashamed. So Old Beast refers to people lacking in manners. But in this case, it's not really clear who is lacking in manners. It could be Wuchu for taking off her clothes in front of a monk, which is a big no-no. It could be Dawe for lodging her in his quarters, or it could be Wanan, considering her not worthy of lodging in the abbot's quarters or being in the area of the monastery.

[29:10]

So it's hard to say who the old beast is. I think next year I'll have to wear my glasses and give a talk. I can't see anymore. Are we taking a break sometime? I'm not sure what the time is. It's ten minutes to a quarter after which is kind of a halfway point. Okay. We might end early tonight. Mo Shan is also known as Matsuzan Ryonin, and she lived in A66 AD, which is the golden age of Zen, which is the same time Tozan and other great Zen masters lived.

[30:18]

And it was the decline of the Tang dynasty, but it was a time when Zen really flourished and established its legitimacy. So a lot of creative energy around that time in that area. She was a contemporary of another famous woman teacher whose name was Iron Millstone Liu, or her Japanese name is Ryu Tetsuma. And she was a profoundly enlightened Buddhist nun and a student of Guishan, who's in the Iggyo school. You can see that on your chart there, also known as Isan. She acquired the nickname Tiemo, or iron millstone, because she was renowned in the Zen circles of her time for grinding to bits. Like an iron millstone, anyone who confronted her in Dharma combat

[31:18]

And here's a brief exchange between Liu and Master Guishan. Liu Tiemo came to Guishan. Guishan said, so old cow, you've come. Tiemo said, tomorrow will be a big festival on Mount Tai. The abbot will go there. Thereupon, Guishan relaxed his body and lay down. Immediately, Tiemo went out and departed. So back to Mo Shan. Mo Shan means summit mountain or last mountain or end mountain. It means, I guess I get this image of a mountain, like the foothills and then a mountain range, and then you can kind of see that mountain out there. You can sense its majesty, but you can't see the details. So I had a feeling she was just very, you know, you couldn't read her very easily.

[32:23]

She was a disciple of Kuan Daigu and the first woman Dharma heir to be noted in one of the transmission records called Record of the Transmission of the Lamp. And here's the lamp, I keep carrying it around. And which should not be, confused with Zen Master Keizan's Denko Roku, or Transmission of the Light. So this compilation of stories about Chinese Zen Masters in Transmission of the Lamp was written in 1004 Common Era. And she's also the first official Chan woman ancestor, having had formal training that was traditionally reserved for male teachers and male disciples. And I gather she was a challenging and demanding teacher. So sometimes I think about, you know, were they like different from Blanche or, you know, Fran or May Lee or were they, what were they like?

[33:35]

I would just love to have a photograph or something to get a feeling of what those old female Zen masters were like. Let's see. So, in any case, she wasn't the first woman to receive mind-to-mind transmission, and that's attributed to a nun who was one of Bodhidharma's four disciples, and her Japanese name was Myoren. I think it's pronounced Zangchi, Nun Zangchi, was Bodhidharma's, one of his successors. Why don't we stop there and then I'll read Matsuzan's story and then maybe Mio-shin's. So we'll take a five-minute break. So this is from the, this is in the Raihai Tokuzui that I've given you.

[35:00]

And you can follow along if you want, or I'll just read it. The Chinese master, Zen master, Qigong, is a venerable patriarch in Rinzai's lineage. Once upon a time, Rinzai sees the master coming to visit and holds on to him. The master says, it is understood. Rinzai lets go and says, I will allow you to stop for a while. From this point on, he has already become Rinzai's disciple. He leaves Rinzai and goes to Matsuzan, at which time Matsuzan asks him, this is Moshan we're talking about, where have you come from? The master says, the entrance of the road. Matsuzan says, why have you come here without anything on?

[36:05]

Meaning his hat. The master has no words. He just prostrates himself, bowing as disciple to teacher. The master asks the question back to Matsuzan. Just what is Matsuzan? Matsuzan says, Matsuzan never shows a peak. The master says, just who is the person within the mountain? Matsuzan says, it is beyond appearances, such as those of a man or woman. The master says, then why do you not change your form? Matsuzan says, I am not the ghost of a wild fox. What might I change? The master prostrates himself. Eventually, he decides to work as the head of the vegetable garden and works there altogether for three years. Later, when he has manifested himself in the world, he preaches to the assembly. I got half a dipper at old Papa Rinzai's place, and I got half a dipper at old Mama Matsuzan's place.

[37:11]

Making a dipper with both halves, I have finished drinking and having arrived directly at the present, I am completely satisfied. Hearing these words now, I look back on the traces of those days with veneration for the past. Matsuzan is an excellent disciple of Koan Daigu. She has power in her lifeblood. and so she has become Shikhan's ma. Rinzai is an authentic successor of Obaku. He has power in his efforts, and so he has become Shikhan's pa. Pa means father, and ma means mother. Zen Master Shikhan's prostration to and pursuit of the Dharma under nun Matsuzan Ryonen are an excellent example of resolute spirit and integrity that students of later ages should emulate. we can say that he broke all barriers, large and small. So I think Dogen was really impressed with Master Shikan studying with a woman.

[38:19]

And there's an I think it's page 75 is the beginning of a Dogen kind of rant about... It's really pretty good to read. It was fun to read about, basically about discrimination and how stupid we are that we think that only certain people can hear the Dharma, or preach the Dharma, or get the Dharma. It's really good. I have more bedtime stories, or one more, but I think I'll stop here and see if people want to talk a little bit, and then I could finish with that story, or we can

[39:22]

and early tonight Thank you for this talk tonight and No when I was doing the chanting that day you The part that stuck struck out for me set up for me one of the parts was There's some part I found it so And if a woman practice hard enough, her reward is that she will no longer receive a woman's body. So, you know, her reward is that she'll be born a man. It's interesting that it seems like either there's this idea that a woman's body is defiled, so she needs to be a man in order to be a Buddha.

[40:28]

If not that, then it's beneficial to be a man, but if you're a woman, then the lies of these different nuns is that my appearance is not important. It's not important whether I'm a woman that still There's no seeming benefit to being a woman. Maybe I'm not saying it very well, but it's either beneficial to be a man, or gender is completely downplayed. As a woman, don't look at me as a woman, just a person, or don't look at this appearance. But it's not that being a woman Any place where anyone talks about being in a woman form is actually a benefit to practice or actually something that adds something to practice.

[41:51]

I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying that... I don't know if you know this or... Well, that's what I think, so... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've recently been talking about, I've been talking with Lori about how we practice together and how we all have gifts, how we all have something that we bring. So whether it be in a female form or a male form, we all have gifts that we can bring, whatever it is. I don't mind giving talks, but it's not my favorite thing to do, but I will do it. But there are other things that I really like to do, carve pumpkins or do art projects or gather people together for events, things like that. where the advantages of one's gifts were not recognized.

[43:37]

At best, they were tolerated, and those lineages were allowed to, in Theravada, the lineages were allowed to die out, mostly because the impression they experienced was Yeah, I mean, it didn't really change the, I mean, it, you know, in this tradition, in Soto Zen tradition, there was this point where, or in Buddhism, where Confucianism really influenced how women were treated and, you know, even, it wasn't just women with social classes and the like, but, I don't know, I mean, we're still practicing, we're still, was still doing this.

[44:39]

So I'm not sure if the women really minded not being invited or really needed that kind of recognition. I'm not so sure. But, you know, that's just... I'm just saying the history is skewed. The reality... Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah. Yeah, we don't know what the reality of it was. Actually, can I just mention something? There's a wonderful book, maybe you have heard of it. It's called Engendering Faith. And it's all about the female ancestors and all the nuns that practiced before us. And it's a huge book, actually. And it's really wonderful. Thank you, Shinketsu. There's also a women, we don't have that particular book, but there is a women in Buddhism section in the library, if you're interested. Laurie?

[45:43]

One thing that we've talked about, too, is that we can't, we don't have, we shouldn't assume that it was always, at every point in history, it was always equally hard for women. It's likely, I think, that there were times when it, in fact, according to this book, Women Living Zen, I think, their feeling is that there was a time of burgeoning Buddhism in Japan where there was a strong Soto nun and it was only like around the 1600s when it got more oppressive. So I think it was something that blossomed and then got oppressed and blossomed. We don't have to feel like it was always just like this little trickle or something. We should be aware that there was often a lot of women practicing close to an equal number, I suspect, or anyway, a comparable number. Elizabeth and then Susan. For me, being woman identified, it's nice to hear our discussions and our concerns and our desires that way as we talk about gender.

[46:58]

But what I've noticed in the past four weeks is that when we did speak about gender, we haven't really spoken about the gender continuum. It's interesting to me, so I'm trying to think about what about contemporary Buddhist language, rather than worrying about so much what happened back then. We're talking about trying to get away from dualities. Well, if you have a continuum, then you have the masculine at one end and the female at the other, and that's a lot of what we're giving weight to here in our conversation, which is, Very important, but there's a lot of textures in between. I noticed that the one reference to the intersex body was very, very negative, but I'm still trying to get back to the present.

[47:59]

I enjoyed a conversation I overheard, somebody speaking with me, with Nori, about various masculinities, regional masculinities, and the various expressions of testosterone and estrogen within the male body. It was almost like she was talking about fine teas in a regional perspective. And I'm from the queer community, and my generation as much as the youth now are so much thinking about the continuum, you just can't even bear, many of them can't even bear. Labeling. And so I'm just, and we also have embraced the icons and images that it seems like, what Ross referred to the other day, you know, we have Manjushri on one side of the altar,

[49:06]

I hope we can test far on the other side. And when you see the various bodies, you know, masculine, enlightened bodies, you know, engender more breasts. Women's bodies might sometimes engender a strong spine. So I'm just trying to recognize the fusions of our reality, to think about it in our practice. Okay, thank you. Susan? I just finished a biography of Buddha by Karen Armstrong. I was waiting to see how she dealt with the early Sangha. She questions one of the stories that we have about the first women ancestors that practiced with Buddha.

[50:08]

that they might have been flavored by people who won and their writing of history. And so, kind of a theme that I've gotten through this practice period is that we're always dealing with a mythology, not what necessarily happened. So, I like the stories and I think they give us an insight into both what may have happened and how later people carried the stories. One of the interesting lines of stories has to do with Avalokiteshvara and how that Bodhisattva tradition comes into China and becomes identified with the Guanyin persona. So in a sense, in India kind of transforms.

[51:13]

And in China, I think that part of those stories have to do with maidens who don't want to marry and run away and revolt and become kind of hideout. So it sort of explains why for some, in some Chinese circles, Kuangyin was a very dangerous So it's hard to see how this identifies. I don't know if there are any connections of that tradition into Chan and Zen, but I really like Kuan Yin, a.k.a. Avalokiteshvara, and found that I was, I seem to have a little collection of sitting, or at least two,

[52:15]

I appreciate both the mythology and the possible reality, but thank you for this story. You're welcome. Thanks, Susan. Ross, and then Jeff. Can you share with us your understanding of that story about Wushan and the Machina Interchange? Wushan. Wa'an? Or Wuchu? Roshan? The woman who asked if you want to have a Dharma dialogue or a worldly dialogue, that exchange. How was that story helpful or encouraging to you in your practice? I don't know if it's helpful or encouraging, but I like this story.

[53:47]

I guess I like the last line the most, or that's what struck me about the story was, who here is the old beast? You know, because everybody's kind of pushing the envelope. you know, Dawei is kind of thinking either the head monk or Wuchu is not quite right, and the head monk is thinking Dawei is quite right, and certainly it's thinking she's so, there's just like, everybody's kind of pointing fingers at each other, and that's what struck me the most about that. Thank you, Ross. the picture of these ebbs and flows of oppression, perhaps, over time, and thinking that today we're in what may be a relative ebb of source.

[55:12]

We have this history to compare. see that both men and women, over the ages, depending on what the social setting was, had perhaps different lessons and challenges to go through. On either side of the oppression, the oppressor learned different things about themselves, And that we have that in the present moment, and then also to look back on history as a comparison. And there's this sort of gift of opposites of this, what we sometimes think of as black and white, male or female, in that it makes this stark contrast to compare against.

[56:30]

and then difficult to recognize the continuity in between or the continuum in between. There's sort of a gift in there somewhere though. I guess if we didn't have genders Yeah, thank you for that. I think most people know this, but at this point, there's just all sorts of people digging into, and I'm just talking about female ancestors this evening, digging into, you know, kind of uncovering them.

[57:39]

And hopefully someday we'll actually rather than having a separate list of the Acharyas, we'll have a lineage that we can chant with them in line there. That's what I hope. Sue. Thank you. For this talk, I'm seeing the images of the Naga and it just instantly appears as an opportunity for all of us to take our place in the midst of that community.

[58:39]

It's very powerful. Yeah, thanks. John, did you want to say? Something? No? Okay. I'd like to hear the last story. Does anyone want to hear the last story? Okay. I have a different version of it, which I think might be... This is probably my favorite. This is the story of Nan Myo Shin. She was a disciple of Kyozan. Nan Myo Shin and the Wind and the Flag.

[59:42]

Once Kyozan was looking for a suitable candidate for the monastery's administrative chief. He asked the senior experienced monks to recommend a good person. Many opinions were offered, and finally, Kyozon said, the nun Myosin from the Wei River District is a woman, but she has a superior spirit and is the best qualified person for administrative chief. All agreed, and Myosin was appointed to the position At that time, there were many excellent disciples under Kyozang, but no one was dissatisfied with the decision. Although her position was not the most important one, she did her best and loved others as herself. When she was working in the administrative quarters and 17 monks from the Shoku district came to see her master, They wanted to climb the mountain right away, but it was too late, and they had to spend the night at the administrative quarters.

[60:48]

At night, they began to discuss the famous story of the six Buddha ancestor and the wind and the flag. All of the 17 monks gave their respective opinions, but all were off the mark. This is the story of the wind and the flag. Before the 33rd Buddha ancestor, Huineng became a full-fledged monk. He was staying at the Fa-Chi temple of Guangzhou, where two monks crossed words with each other. One of them said, a banner is fluttering. The other said, no, the wind is blowing. There seemed to be no end to their discussion. Then Huineng said, neither of them is moving. Your minds are moving. On hearing this, they agreed with him. Myosin overheard this discussion and said, it's a pity that the 17 donkeys have worn out so many pairs of straw sandals on pilgrimages and still cannot even dream about the Buddhist Dharma.

[61:56]

I hope she kept that to herself. A little later, A little later, Myosin's attendant told them what his master thought about their discussion. But none of them were dissatisfied or resentful about it. On the contrary, they were ashamed at their lack of attainment of the way. They straightened up their robes, offered incense, made prostrations, and sought her instruction. She said, please come closer. But before they could come closer, she addressed them. The wind is not moving. The flag is not moving. The mind is not moving. When they heard that, all of them reflected on their own hearts, then bowed to her in gratitude and became her disciples. Soon after that, they returned to Seishu without even visiting Kyozan. Truly Meoshin's level is not surpassed by the three sages and ten saints, and her actions are those of one who transmits the right stream of the Buddhas and ancestors.

[63:01]

Buddha, ancestor, and the wind and the flag. Oops, that's the last thing. Oh, that is the end. Buddhas and ancestors is the end. Thank you. Beings are numberless.

[63:37]

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