Does anybody remember anything that we talked about last time? Memorable? I feel like we talked about last time what we talked about the first and second time that sort of went in a circle. I'm sure there were no things. You can close the door if it's okay.

[01:30]

The thing that we talked a lot about was, well, in The Cleary translation was, at this very moment, the boat is the world. Even the sky, the water, and the shore all have become circumstances of the boat, unlike circumstances which are not the boat. And we talked about, well, then what... Alan especially brought up the question of what, then, are the circumstances that are not the boat. We talked about the relation of that to the phrase at this very moment. This is our last class.

[03:14]

I want to cover the last three sections, 70 to 9. This is Tanahashi's translation. If you have another translation, you can kind of see how they go together. The great way of all Buddhas, thoroughly practiced, is emancipation and realization. Emancipation means that in birth, you are emancipated from birth. In death, you are emancipated from death. and penetrating birth and death.

[04:45]

Such is the complete practice of the Great Wave. There is letting go of birth and death and vitalizing birth and death. Such is the thorough practice of the Great Wave. Realization is birth and birth is realization. At the time of realization there is nothing but birth totally actualized, nothing but death totally actualized. small, neither immeasurable nor measurable, neither remote nor urgent. Birth in its right nowness is undivided activity. Undivided activity is birth in its immediacy. Birth neither comes nor goes. Birth neither appears nor is already existing. Thus, birth is totally manifested and death is totally manifested. Know that there are innumerable beings in yourself. Also, there is birth and there is death.

[05:48]

Quietly think over whether birth and all things that arise together with birth are inseparable or not. There is neither a moment nor a thing that is apart from birth. There is neither a moment nor an object nor a mind that is apart from birth. Birth is just like riding in a boat. You raise the sails and row with the oar. Although you row, the boat gives you a ride, and without the boat, no one can ride. But you ride in the boat, and your riding makes the boat what it is. Investigate a moment such as this. At just such a moment, there is nothing but the world or the boat. The sky, the water, and the shore are all the boat's world, which is not the same as a world that is not the boat's. When you ride in a boat, your body and mind and the environs together are the undivided activity of the boat. The entire earth and the entire sky are both the undivided activity of the boat. Thus, birth is nothing but you, and you are nothing but birth. Zen master Yuan Wu, priest Kaiken said,

[06:56]

Birth is undivided activity. Death is undivided activity. Clarify and investigate these words. What you should investigate is, while the undivided activity of birth has no beginning or end and covers the entire earth and the entire sky, it hinders neither birth's undivided activity nor death's undivided activity. At the moment of death's undivided activity, while it covers the entire earth and the entire sky, it hinders neither death's undivided activity nor birth's undivided activity. This being so, birth does not hinder death and death does not hinder birth." That last section, 6, is a very formal way of presenting something. And sometimes the formality gets in the way of our understanding. The formal way of speaking is sometimes used in sutras.

[08:08]

Very often in a sutra, when there's something said, then each word is analyzed separately as to its meaning, so that there's no misunderstanding as to what the words mean. Because words mean various things to various people. One class of people uses words and they mean one thing, and another level of people uses the same words and they mean something else. So when people comment on the sutras, usually they explain the meaning of every word. so that there's no mistake as to what level the language is. That isn't being done here. But often in a sutra, especially like in Abhidharma, where they're expressing something so that there's no mistake, no way to misunderstand.

[09:29]

something he said in a very formal way that's kind of redundant. So that's this kind of language. It's a little bit redundant and that can easily make you confused because he's saying both the positive and the negative about both birth and death. What struck me was that he uses this expression of, in his sermon too, both the entire earth and the entire sky appear in birth as well as in death. Well, entire earth and entire sky means more than just literally earth and sky.

[10:40]

Entire earth and entire sky means everything. It means all, right? It means all-inclusiveness. So, entire earth and entire sky are just metaphors for all-inclusiveness. Yeah, and when I think about the boat, I think that he's just referring to birth and death because they're real large events that we attach a lot of meaning to. But what he's saying is that, you know, you have the individualized consciousness, which is just a reflection of the whole thing. And so it's like a significant thing when we look at birth and death.

[11:45]

It wakes us up. It causes us to pay attention to what he's saying. But it's also talking about birth and death. Yeah, and he's also talking about birth and death because the boat, I see, is who we are when we're born. Everything is there. And the boat sees everything. And the boat carries us through. And we are the boat. We are the boat and we're in the boat at the same time. Well, we are the boat, but the boat is the boat and we are ourselves. Yes. And that's why I say we are the boat and we're in the boat. But in order to actualize the boat, or in order to actualize ourself, we have to be one with the activity of the boat. I mean, a lot of people, they see the separation. The opposite is saying that there is no separation, when actually both are true.

[12:47]

Yeah, both are true. How does that fit into this? Is it part of life? There are two levels in which we can talk about life and death. I think we talked about it the first time. One is the level where our and the cycle of our life and then our disappearance from the world.

[14:01]

And we call that birth and death. But actually, birth and death are taking place on each moment. But we're always going, we're not looking at death, we're looking at what we feel is life. So as long as we feel that we're alive, we're always optimistically looking at our direction as life. Isn't that so? But actually the direction that we're looking at is life, is going toward death. Right? Where it's really going, where we think about continuing our life, is toward death.

[15:02]

So, life and death, or birth and death, are really just two sides of the activity that we call life. And two sides of the activity which we call death. So you can call it whichever one you want. But in order to remain optimistic and to continue our dream, we call it life. Which I don't have any quarrel with, but we do that. And so we look on the bright side, right? We look on the light side, on the manifested side. So you can use the word life to cover both life and death, and you can use the word death to cover both life and death. The undividedness of it is that when you use the word life in a non-dual sense, then it includes both life and death.

[16:12]

When you use the word death in a non-dual way, it means both life and death. Because life, in a non-dual sense, covers both life and death, or birth and death. And death, in a non-dual sense, covers both life and death. Otherwise, our words are always falling into discrimination. Language necessarily is discriminating. We use this language, it makes it difficult for us to think in any way other than it's either this or it's that. My head is a very strong experience of confronting my own fear of death.

[17:34]

How afraid I am about it. Somehow, what you're saying about life and death, That's the point. Not so much comfort, but a freedom. To have some experience of freedom. That's actually the point of Buddhist practice. To have that freedom. Within birth, to have that freedom. from birth and death within it, not by escaping from it. It covers the entire earth and the entire sky, which means, you know, everything.

[19:13]

And it doesn't hinder death's undivided activity, nor birth's undivided activity. This being so, birth does not hinder death, and death does not hinder birth. They don't hinder each other because even though they seem to take place at different times, At the same time, within our life is death. And within our death is life. But then there's a period called life and a period called death. That's the other side. That's the other understanding. I was born in such and such a time and I die in such and such a time. unless they understand the other side, which is that within this life is death, and within this death is life.

[20:21]

So, one depends on the other. They're totally interdependent. And it's like, you know, walking. This foot is going to, you know, progress into life, right? And this foot is the foot behind, and it's behind in the past. So the past is death, right? What's gone is death, and what appears is life. Isn't that so? So... Yeah, I can see the life within death and death within life, especially from birth.

[21:42]

We're born and start to die. But it's harder to see after death because there's nobody that said, hey, this is what happens when you die. It's harder to see life after that point. The reason for that is because we tend to be self-centered. As soon as we stop being self-centered, we have it all the time. And the reason we have it all the time is because it's hardship to grasp. We're always talking about the same thing, actually. I'll do it again. Rebecca?

[23:01]

Could I just read the clear translation of that? What thorough investigation means is that the principle of in life the whole works appears has nothing to do with beginning and end, though it is the whole earth and all space. Not only does it not block the appearance of the whole works in life, it doesn't block the appearance of the whole works in death either. Yeah, same things, actually. But the words appearance, I mean, somehow, somehow the way it's said, to me, it's a more contemporary set of words. hear it in different ways, and sometimes if you hear it from just a little bit differently, it connects with you.

[24:08]

That's good. It's appearance. Well, the appearance So in number seven, Dogen says, both the entire earth and the entire sky appear in birth as well as in death. However, it is not that one and the same entire earth and sky are fully manifested in birth and also fully manifested in death. Although not one, not different. Not one. Not different. Although not different, not the same.

[25:14]

Although not the same, not many. Similarly, in birth, there is undivided activity of all things. And in death, there is undivided activity of all things. There is undivided activity in what is not birth and death. There is birth and there is death in undivided activity." That's a very complex kind of statement. He says, both the entire earth and the entire sky appear in birth as well as in death. However, it is not that one and the same entire sky, earth and sky, are fully manifested in birth and also fully manifested in death. So when things are not one, you usually think they're different, right? Either they're one or they're two.

[26:16]

Different means divided. Although they're not really one, they're not divided. And although not different or not divided, doesn't mean that they're the same. And although they're not the same, it doesn't mean that they're not many. So he's taking everything away. He's saying, just because it appears this way doesn't mean that it appears that way. It's not one. So there's this famous phrase in Zen, not one, not two. If you say that the whole universe is one, that's easy to say. But then you also have to say that it's two.

[27:27]

But if you The whole universe, we say, is one piece. But actually, you can't say it's one, because it's also many. And if you say it's many, that's not right, because it's really one. So is it one, or is it many? You know, there's a koan. Everything returns to the One.

[28:38]

Where does the One return to? Yeah, that you can describe either one or many. So one and many are both characteristics of the universe. So the only way to get out of it is to say, not one, not two, rather than to describe it. beyond that. And is it birth or is it death? You know, there's another koan about the two men, the monk, the master and his disciple who go to the funeral.

[29:52]

And the disciple knocks on the coffin and he says, to his teacher, dead or alive. And then later, when they got outside, he says, teacher, you must tell me. If you don't tell me, I'll hit you. Teacher says, go ahead and hit me if you want, but I won't say. So he hit him. And he said, you better, I think you better go on a little trip, because if people heard that you hit me, if the rest of the students heard that you hit me,

[30:56]

didn't like it. So he left. And he went to see I won't say. And he got it. And he went back to his old teacher, but his old teacher died in the meantime, so he couldn't reveal it to him. Anyway, I won't say. It's like not one, not two. In other words, this is is if you say something in the positive, then you make it into something.

[32:12]

As soon as you express something in the positive, you create a distinction. It is this. So usually you say, well, it's not this and it's not that. Suzuki Roshi used to say, The way that you say something in Zen is, explain something in Zen is, yes, but not quite. There's always a qualification. Are you alive? Yes, but not quite. Are we dead? No, but not quite. So we like to think of it as one way or the other.

[33:16]

We like to fall into one side or another. But not one and not two. So our life really hangs in the balance. Our existence hangs in the balance. And it also, if we can manage to maintain that edge, where we don't fall into duality, then we have enlightenment. Do you want to say something? It was kind of an elusive thought. It seems to me that it's thinking of the intellect trying to clarify what you're saying.

[34:31]

And the danger of that is making it object of, I think maybe, Because that's where the wisdom is, is in the ignorance. I'd like to go back to what Charlie said, and I guess that's where I get stuck in reading this, because it doesn't say one human life.

[35:49]

It says life and death. That's right. And I keep thinking of life and death, and that in every moment there is life and death, and that it doesn't sound obscure if you look at it in that bigger sense at all. But I don't know whether that's just an easy way out. Well, right. It's not an easy route if you include yourself in it. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. That's right, because Dogen is talking not from the point of view of being human-centered. He's talking from the point of view of all being centered. This is Dogen's standpoint. So he doesn't get stuck. We get stuck because we're thinking in terms of humans from the standpoint of human life, human centeredness. And so it's hard for us to get beyond and see that a human being is just part of the totality of life and death.

[36:55]

Of course, we do know that, but we don't think that way. It's hard for us to think that way, because when we talk about birth and death, we think about having life and losing it. But from the perspective of all being centered, there's nothing to gain, nothing to lose, and there's nothing that's born, nothing that dies. But from our human From the human perspective, we are born at a certain date and we live our life and we die at a certain date. That's human perspective. But from all being perspective, there's just birth and death.

[38:00]

But nothing is born, nothing dies. There's just life covers the whole earth and the whole sky. Death covers the whole earth and the whole sky. There are just two sides of it. And in death there is undivided activity of all things. That gives two sides. There is undivided activity in what is not birth and not death. There is birth and there is death in undivided activity. But what is undivided activity in what is not birth and not death? Not birth and not death is just the life of the universe. Which doesn't have an opposite.

[39:06]

Everything has an opposite. When we say life, the opposite is death. When we say death, the opposite is life. But in a non-dual sense, if you say life, it includes death. In other words, if you say no in a non-dual way, it includes yes. In other words, we make the split in our way of thinking. Anyway, of course, we talked a little bit. This is why it's so confusing, isn't it? Yeah. So, Dogen carries us through. You know, the translation is hard, because when Dogen But still, if you move through and let go, if we move through without hanging on to our self-centeredness, then things become apparent.

[40:30]

It becomes apparent. So this is the nice thing about Dogen, but it's also the difficult thing about Dogen, is that Dogen is not describing something. the words themselves are a vehicle for moving. So if we allow ourselves to move through the words without thinking too much, then we can have some kind of experience. So he says, this being so, in number eight, the undivided activity of birth is like a young man bending and stretching his arm. or it is like someone asleep searching with his hand behind his back for the pillow. Bending and extending are both total activities of the same arm, which do not hinder each other.

[41:57]

In other words, this is the activity of birth and death. It's like the young man stretching and bending his arm. This, you might say, this is life. And this is death. They're just two actions of the same entity. So maybe you call this action or activity, right? That's one of the translations. Zenki, undivided activity of bending and stretching the arm. Birth and death are just two sides of undivided activity. Yeah, maybe loss and recovery.

[43:23]

But it also suggests kind of like in the dark, like not knowing or feeling your way, feeling for something. You know it's there, but you can't see it. Well, it's also just a start. Yeah, you know it's there, but it's in the dark. always for me that image, though I know historically it isn't accurate because Dogen's pillow would have looked like our pillow, and that is the white pillow in the dark, and groping for that white pillow, the whole business of the light and the darkness somehow, that image is in there for me too.

[45:25]

I'm sure that wasn't what Duggan's pillow was like. I don't know what color it was, but it could have been made out of wood. Sometimes in Japan, the monks sleep on beanbags, little beanbag pillows. because he really did have an experience of that, which he was putting into words to help others understand, and somehow hoping that they would transcend the words to understand the experience. So he wasn't describing anything, and also he was describing something. Yeah, describing, right, in a certain way. I mean, I feel real frustrated by the words themselves.

[46:28]

You know, I mean, when I say frustrated, I just feel like there are too many words to say what's happening, and if you don't have an experience of it, it doesn't mean anything. Yeah. No, if you don't have it, it's just words. That's right. That's right. But you have it. Yeah. And you do have it, you know. But you can get all hung up and entangled in the words, trying to understand it with your mind. Right. Dogen, you know, was a literary person, and he loved words. And he used words. But sometimes if you simplify something... It's too simple. Yeah. And he may be right, you know. Like Rebecca was saying, well, you know, too many words.

[47:29]

To say something so simply, you know, But if you don't say it, it may seem like you could just say it more simply. But maybe not. Maybe something's missed, you know? It feels like we're trying to lift ourselves up by our own bootstraps, I guess. Once we use words, once we say, this is A, and this is B, then we've labeled them, and they're stopped, and we know what it is, and it's stopped. And somehow it's like we're trying to use, you have to use words to keep the flow going beyond the labels. That's kind of what Dogon is, I think, is doing, is to use words so that we don't get

[48:32]

He approaches everything from so many different points of view, so that you don't get stuck in a point of view. And I think that's one of the reasons for being so elaborate. Often he'll express something in so many different ways. just to make sure that you don't get attached to one way that he's saying it, or one view of it. And so that's kind of repetitive. And sutras are like that too. So, then he says, about such a moment, this is the last part, you may suppose that because realization is manifested in undivided activity, There was no realization prior to this.

[49:34]

However, prior to this realization, undivided activity was manifested. It's always been manifested, even before you realized it. But undivided activity manifested previously does not hinder the present realization of undivided activity. Because of this, your understanding can be manifested moment after moment. In other words, you can come in any place. And it's okay. Then, stretching the arm is A, bending the arm is B. But stretching the arm, bending the arm is in the stretching of the arm. Within the stretching of the arm is the bending of the arm? Yes. I would say that not, no, this is the stretching of the arm.

[50:42]

And this is the bending of the arm. But he says, there's not one without the other. There's not one without the other, but their activities are not necessarily the same. Their manifestation is not necessarily the same. Otherwise, we couldn't talk about birth or death. The manifestation of birth is birth's manifestation. The manifestation of death is death's manifestation. But, in the stretching of the arm, this is not the bending of the arm, but it includes the bending of the arm. This is called stretching the arm, but it includes this. And this is not the stretching of the arm, this is the bending of the arm. It includes this. They don't get in each other's way. They don't get in each other's way. They don't hinder each other.

[51:43]

But they include each other. Because they're both based. They're not independent. They're both based on But with reciprocal changes, if this was going on all the time, then one would include the other. And since dark and light are constantly changing, and life and death are constantly interacting with each other, you can say one includes the other. Just like how things move down.

[52:53]

But when things are down, they're down. When they're up, they're up. Robert? I think it's similar to last week. I talked about the fear this way, or that way. That's right. It's like the left hand. This is birth and this is death. They're both parts, two sides of the same body.

[53:56]

Then when you put them together, they're complete. And also this mudra. This is a cosmic mudra. This is the mudra which expresses actually birth and death. This is also form and emptiness. Yes. No, we're not.

[54:58]

When you lift your hand, don't do that. Don't reach behind your hip. Just lift them up like this. Just a little bit. This is like holding your hands up and Buddha steps on your hands and then you lift up Buddha. That's the best. My health teacher Tatsugano Yoshi used to say... This is so funny because I've been thinking about this all day. And I thought, you know, that's what I really want to talk about tonight. bring that up. It's only a little bit of zen, Kitty. But I kept thinking, you know, I kept seeing, some people seem to lift him up by his ankles because their hands are like this.

[56:04]

And some people he's very light for it. And when I do it, it's like, like Usually this fascicle is read in conjunction with zenki, I mean with shoji. Shoji actually means birds of death. Oh, and here it is. It's on page 72, 74 of William's dugout, and we're short.

[57:14]

And often these two fascicles are studied together. there is no birth and death. It is also said, because a Buddha is not in birth and death, a Buddha is not deluded by birth and death. These statements are the essence of the words of two Zen masters, Jia Shan and Ding Shan. You should certainly not neglect them because they are the words of those who attain the way. Those who want to be free from birth and death should understand the meaning of these words. If you search for a Buddha outside of birth and death, It will be like trying to go to the southern country of Yue with your spear headed toward the north, or like trying to see the Big Dipper while you are facing south.

[58:20]

You will cause yourself to remain all the more in birth and death and lose the way of emancipation. Just understand that birth and death is itself nirvana. There is nothing such as birth and death to be avoided. There is nothing such as nirvana to be sought. Only when you realize this are you free from birth and death. It is a mistake to suppose that birth turns into death. Birth is a phase that is an entire period of itself with its own past and future. For this reason, in Buddha Dharma, birth is understood as no birth. Death is a phase which is an entire period of itself with its own past and future. For this reason, death is understood as no death. In birth there is nothing but birth, and in death there is nothing but death. Accordingly, when birth comes, face an actualized birth, and when death comes, face an actualized death. Do not avoid them or desire them.

[59:22]

This birth and death is the life of Buddha. If you try to exclude it, you will lose the life of Buddha. If you cling to it, trying to remain in it, you will lose the life of Buddha. And what remains will be the mere form of Buddha. Only when you don't dislike birth and death or long for them do you enter Buddha's mind. However, do not analyze or speak about it. Just set aside your body and mind and forget about them and throw them into the house of Buddha. Then all is done by Buddha. When you follow this, you are free from birth and death and become a Buddha without effort or calculation. Who then continues to think? There is a simple way to become a Buddha. When you refrain from unwholesome actions, are not attached to birth and death, and are compassionate toward all sentient beings, respectful to seniors, and kind to juniors, not excluding or desiring anything, and with no designing thoughts or worries, you will be called a Buddha.

[60:28]

Don't seek anywhere else. So in the end, it boils down to something very simple. So, not avoiding birth and death, and not longing for birth and death. completely, then the whole universe is included in that moment's complete undivided activity. I think that the concept or the idea of should

[61:42]

Instead of just responding. It seems like that aspect is probably the biggest impediment. Yeah. Well, that's right. Often because we lose our spontaneity, which is responsiveness, right? I guess you could say spontaneity is the ability to be responsive to the situation of the moment. Then we have to create rules. Shoulds and shouldn'ts and all this. But we still have to have shoulds and shouldn'ts. In a particular way. Yeah. But we grow more and more expectant. We have more and more expectation. We have to be very careful that we don't get overly expectant.

[63:24]

Everything's useful. Yes. Yes, it's wonderful. Thank you. Yeah. It's not to be used by. So everything has its, you know, you can use anything. You can use whatever is at hand, as long as you can use it and not be used by it. Although, we do have to let things use us. We do have to be able to be used by things, but that's our granting. I'm going back to this, If this is the way it is, this is what's happening, this is for sure, this is the feeling, this is the thought, not to avoid that.

[64:31]

That is trying to avoid what's there. about holding on to something we like and pushing away something we don't like. Those are the two sides of our life, and we're always dealing with that. So, how to let things freely come and freely go. And at the same time, be responsive. without being caught by the comings and goings of things.

[65:32]

Don't worry, Andrew. Thank you too much. I think that being unkind to a child is avoiding death. The thing I hide to a child is this thing that's going on, this aversion and travesty, which I think is separation.

[66:52]

But I was thinking, is clinging to something separation? Are we being separate from something when we're clinging, or are we being separate from it? So I started thinking about it. Well, that's an interesting thought. Clinging is trying to hold onto something that is not hold-onto-able. Clinging is trying to preserve something which cannot be preserved. And aversion is trying to avoid something that can't be avoided. That's the meaning of those two terms in this context. Aversion is not allowing something that can't be avoided.

[67:54]

And grasping is trying to hold on to something that can't be sustained. Yes, that one. and can be parallel strands.

[69:19]

We co-exist. Co-exist. Yeah. We can have equanimity within our suffering. Right? Is that what you mean? Yeah. That's right. We do. Within our suffering, within our painful life, we have equanimity. They co-exist. But when we have equanimity within our suffering, that's also freedom within suffering. So to be free from suffering doesn't mean to be free from all pain, or not to have any problem.

[70:27]

To be free from suffering means that within, in the midst of suffering, to be free from suffering. To have some independence. Within the midst of pain, to have some freedom from pain. not to escape from it. Right there in the midst, that's where our freedom, real freedom was. You can't avoid suffering, you can't avoid pain. So, how do you get comfortable in the midst of suffering and pain? Because that's what this world is. This particular place This particular one is the world of suffering and pain.

[71:32]

Sometimes we don't feel painful, or sometimes we don't feel like we're suffering, but that's just another side of suffering. That's just the light side of suffering. Suffering has extremes, you know, and there's a very light side of suffering which doesn't even seem like suffering. People who are in the heavenly realms don't feel their suffering. They're not so aware of their suffering and so they don't try to do anything about it. But people who are on the other extreme, who have a lot of it, who have a very painful suffering, you know, are forced to do something about it. Forced to find a way to find their freedom within it. by avoiding it, or trying to get out of it.

[72:40]

And we devise all kinds of nice ways. But in the end, it's there. In the end, you're full circle around suffering. So, one of the advantages of having a lot of suffering and pain is that you're kind of forced to do something about it. Yeah, well, not everybody can do it. Not everybody knows how to do it. Unfortunately, people don't know how to do it. Yes? and attachment or clinging that in the case of say a parent and child and that there's one degree or another of abuse which you could construe as aversion and a feeling of separation in that it's not something that we as a society would necessarily cultivate.

[73:57]

And the other side would be sort of a loving relationship, which is something that, as a society, we kind of cultivate or orient toward, but that's also kind of this, I want closer, and it's separate. Both sides, you know, have their problems. That's right. One side can lead to clinging, the other side can lead to aversion. We always have to strike the middle way. If we become too loving and we become too covetous and we try to make everything very easy, you know, for children, make it too easy, then they don't build much character. And if we make it too hard, they have a very difficult time in trying to recover themselves.

[75:05]

So these are the two extremes. Sometimes compassion doesn't look like kindness. It's hard to define what compassion is. But sometimes, you know, you have to do something, stop somebody from doing something, or not let them do something, in order to be compassionate. And it gives them a lot of pain. But in the end, it's good for them. Anybody that brings up a kid knows that. Bad timing. Pekka?

[76:16]

How did you know I wanted to say something? But aside from kids and all that, in grasping, there's the aversion to letting go. Right there, in any kind of grasping, whether it's grasping Well, both grasping and aversion are two sides of attachment. Attachment has two sides. One side is grasping and the other side is aversion. So, you know, I remember how shocked I was when I used to sit Tsushima Suzuki Roshi and he'd say, don't get attached to the pain. And I would think, Well, I'm not attached to the pain. I'm trying to get rid of the pain. But I couldn't see that.

[77:18]

Actually, I thought about it. Yes, that's right. I'm attached to the pain. And just because it's more and more painful, the more attached I am to it. Which means aversion. I'm attached to it in the form of aversion. And then pain becomes suffering. So pain is pain. Suffering is suffering. But suffering is associated with pain. Sometimes suffering is associated with pleasure. I mean, you know, after you sit for a long time, you should, you know. But when you say, when you decide something, you say, I'm going to sit for such and such a time without moving, then you try to keep your intention.

[78:29]

That's important. And then you find, well, how can I do that? Something comes to interfere with that. Well, how can I do that? you have something to work with. But if you always keep changing in order to be comfortable or for your own convenience, then you never learn how to sit still. You never learn how to be at peace with yourself, with your difficulty. You never learn how to have equanimity in the midst of your problem. And so you're always trying to find a different way, a different position. And no position is comfortable.

[79:32]

There's no such thing as a permanently comfortable position. So it's just always, this is called restlessness. Restlessness means that there's no place to settle. So this is, Zazen is where you learn how to settle. So you have your discomfort, and then you just be one with the discomfort. As soon as aversion comes, you're lost. Because you're trying to run away, and it runs after you. So you have to stay there with it and merge with it. When you merge with it, then there's no opposite. And when there's no opposite, you don't have the same problem, because it's undivided activity. Zenki. That's what Zazen is. Zazen is Zenki. Undivided activity.

[80:34]

When painful legs, it's just painful legs. When there's pleasure, there's just pleasure. Whatever there is, is what's there. And you don't even have to bother to name it. If you say, I am this, then you bring I into it. As soon as you bring I into it, you're dividing it. You're being self-centered. So until you stop being self-centered and stop aversion and grasping for something else. Suffering. You have suffering. Is suffering undivided activity? Suffering is included. Suffering, undivided activity is equanimity within what you call suffering.

[81:41]

Suffering is just a word for something. But suffering is, you know, what we do. And we try to avoid it, but no matter how much you try to avoid it, it's there. And the more you try to avoid it, the more it looms as a specter. So when we have our suffering, If you find that calm place, which is undivided activity, just be suffering. Just be pain. Just be pleasure.

[82:27]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ