The truth is that yesterday in my talk I made a mistake and I was talking about carrying a stick, the kiyosaku, and I said that a number of women had asked me if I could carry the stick more. And I said that no men had asked me that. and I thought it was kind of interesting, and then I segued into a kind of remark that was not acceptable. It was kind of detrimental, and I can see that I hurt a number of people, and so I want to apologize. Last night, during our Suzuki Roshi ceremony, offering our comments,

[01:24]

And I don't blame her, because I can never remember it either, even though it's one of my favorite poems. How does that go? So I'm going to tell you how it goes, because it's such a great poem. This poem appears in the Tenzo Kyokun Dogens. practice of cooking in the kitchen. And the poem goes like this. One, seven, three, five. The truth you search for cannot be grasped. As night advances, a bright moon illuminates the whole ocean. The dragon's jewels are found in every wave. looking for the moon, it is here, in this way, in the next.

[02:35]

This is a poem by Shui Du, Sze Chau, who compiled the Blue Cliff Record. And I used this as a commentary on when he went to China, and he went... Would you mind reading the poem again? Okay. Well, anyway, when he went to China and, well, met the Tenzo of Mount Ayuwang, who enlightened him as to what practice really is. So the poem goes, one, seven, three, five. The truth you search for cannot be grasped. illuminates the whole ocean. The dragon's jewels are found in every wave.

[03:40]

Looking for the moon, it is here, in this wave, in the next. So this is like the moon, the light of the moon dancing on the waves. So the moon, of course, is enlightenment. The Irish call this glee. You may have sung in the glee club when you were in school. Remember that? Glee is the light, the sparkles of light on the waves as they dance on the waves. Yes? What's the 1735? Well, 1735 means everything in a kind of random way. Although some commentator tried to attribute it to some kind of formula, but it's more or less what looks like the arbitrary activity of life, which is not arbitrary, but seems arbitrary.

[04:59]

It's just the way things fall into place. One, five, seven, three, not one. I didn't really want to talk about this any further. I just wanted to clarify that. But I will. I'm prepared to do that. When Dogen went to China, he stayed on the boat because he was quarantined for a couple of months. He could get on the dock, you know, but he couldn't wander around China. And one day, an old man who was a monk came from Mount Ayuan. When we went to China, we visited the Ayuan Monastery, which is over the hill from Rujing's Monastery. What's the name of Rujing's Monastery?

[06:01]

Tian Tong. Tian Tong. Yeah, I have one in my city. It's a wonderful place. They have a stupa of Xuanzang there. One of the oldest stupas in China. They call it a pagoda. Very tall. Anyway, so Dogen saw this monk old man. I mean, he was an old man, he was only in his 70s. And he was buying mushrooms for the monks. He was the tenzo at Ayuwong. And he had walked over from Ayuwong to where the boat was, working out there in the sun, he said, why are you, you know, can't you send some young guys to work, to do this kind of work?

[07:11]

And the Tenzo said, you know, nobody else can do my work. That was one of the keys. No one else can do my work. I have to do, this is my, for me, and this is what I have to do. So I can't, no one else can do that. And that surprised Dogen because Dogen had thought that zazen and reading, studying the old cases and chanting sutras was what practice was. Like many Buddhists, he didn't understand that daily life was where the practice was. He didn't understand that. That was never presented to him. And that was one of the problems that he had with the practice in Japan of his day, that Buddhism was kind of a mysterious thing for adepts.

[08:15]

And that still is, you know, there's still that appealing, mysterious practice for adepts. And that daily life, ordinary daily life, was not connected with practice. Tenzo was showing him something. And Dogen said, well, what is practice? You know, when he said, young man, you don't understand what practice is. And Dogen said, well, what is practice? And the monk said, one, two, three, four, five. And that was a koan for Dogen. And later on, the monk, then he took his mushrooms and went over the hill. In one day, China's full of mountains, and even the mountain on the other side is a long way uphill from down. But, you know, people walked a lot and they ran a lot in those days. So, I can imagine.

[09:19]

Although, we took the road. I want to be more accurate here. So the monk said, you don't understand characters in terms of what is characters. And he said, one, two, three, four, five. So I'll read you a little bit. When I was at Mount Tiangtong, a monk called Lu from Qingyuan, who was serving as Tenzo, one day after the noon meal, I was walking to another building within the complex when I noticed Lu drawing mushrooms in the sun in front of the boots den.

[10:41]

He carried a bamboo stick but had no hat on his head. The sun's rays beat down so harshly that the tiles along the walk burned one's feet. Lou worked hard and was covered with sweat. I could not help but feel the work was too much of a strain for him. His back was a bow drawn taut. His long eyebrows were crane white. I approached and asked his age. He replied he was 68. Then I went on to ask him why he never used any assistance, and he answered, Other people are not me. You're right, I said. I can see that your work is the activity of the Buddhadharma, but why are you working so hard in the scorching sun? He replied, If I don't do it now, when else can I do it? There was nothing for me to say. As I walked along that passageway, I began to sense inwardly the true significance of the rule of Tenzo.

[11:44]

I arrived in China in April 1223, but being unable to disembark immediately, I stayed on board a ship in the port of Ningbo. Ningbo is where Dogen landed, and that's where Mount Jing is. Mount Jing is this tall mountain with a monastery on top. And that's where we went, and that's where we had the best I think, and it was a monastic meal and it was so good. But in China they served great food. It was a banquet, every meal. But on that monastery, it was like eating a Oreo cookie, you know. When you eat all this other stuff, Oreo cookies are really the best. You're right, I can

[12:46]

We don't do it now. So I arrived in China in 1223, but being unable to disembark immediately, I stayed on board ship in the port of Ningbo. One day in May, while I was talking as a captain, an old monk about 60 years of age came directly to the ship to buy mushrooms from the Japanese merchants on board. I invited him for tea and asked him where he was from. He said he was the tenso at the monastery of Mount Ayuwang and added, I'm originally from Zixu. And although I left there over 40 years ago, and so I'm 61 this year, and I've practiced in several Zen monasteries in this country. Last year, while living in Guiyun, I visited the monastery in Mount Ayuan, and although I spent my time there, totally confused as to what was going on. Then after the summer period last year, I was appointed Tenzo. Tomorrow is May 5th.

[13:53]

I think that's Bodhidharma's birthday. But I have nothing special to offer the monks. I wanted to prepare a noodle soup, but as I did not have any mushrooms to put in, I came here to buy some. I asked, well, when did you leave Ayyawong? When? When did you leave Ayyawong? He said, after lunch. When will you go back to the temple? I'm planning to return as soon as I've bought the mushrooms." So he's there in the afternoon, on a hot day. Of course, these stories get a little intertwined. You can't imagine how fortunate I feel that we were able to meet, that he and I were able to meet unexpectedly like this. If it's possible, I wish you would stay a while longer and allow me to offer you something more. I'm sorry, but that's impossible just now. If I am not there tomorrow to prepare the meal, it will not be made well. But surely there must be others in that place as large as Aya Wong who are capable of preparing meals.

[15:00]

There will not be that inconvenience if you're not there. work in my old age. It is, so to speak, the practice of an old man. How can I entrust all that to work for others? Moreover, when I left the temple, I did not ask for permission to stay out overnight. But why, when you are so old, do you do the hard work of a tenzo? Why do you not spend your time practicing zazen or working in the koans of former teachers? Tenzo? He burst out laughing and remarked, my good friend from abroad, you do not yet understand what practice is all about. You do not know the meaning of characters. When I heard this old man's, old monk's words, I was taken aback and felt greatly ashamed. So I asked him, what are characters and what is practice?

[16:04]

At that time, I was unable to grasp the meaning of his words. If you do not understand, please come to Mount Aiwong sometime, and we will talk about the nature of characters more fully. With that, he rose quickly. It's getting late, and the sun is about to set. I'm afraid I can't stay any longer. So then he left for Mount Aiwong. In July of the same year, I stayed on Mount Tianpeng. That's Rue James Monastery. One day, the Tenzo from Aoyama came to see me, and he said, as the summer practice period has ended, I shall be retiring as Tenzo and plan to return home. I heard that you were here and wanted very much to talk with you and see how you were doing. I was indeed happy to see him and received him cordially. We talked about various things and finally came to the matter he had touched on aboard the ship concerning the practice and study A person who studies characters must know just what characters are, and one intending to practice the way must understand what practice is.

[17:16]

I asked him once again, well, what are characters? One, two, three, four, five, he replied. Well, what is practice? There is nothing in the world that is hidden. Although we talked about many other things, I will not mention them here. Whatever little bit I have learned about characters and practice is largely due to that Tenzo. When I met again with my teacher, Myozen, Myozen went to China with Dogen. He was a disciple of Iesai, who was Dogen's first Zen teacher for about a year. And Myozen was He and Dogen went to China together, and Myosin died in China. Whatever little bit I have learned about characters and practice is largely due to that Tenzo.

[18:21]

When I met again with my teacher Myosin, who later died in China, and told him of my meeting with the Tenzo from out Iowa, Later on, I came across a gatha, which is a Zweidu, Setso, had written for one of his disciples. And it goes like this, 1735. The truth you search for cannot be grasped. As night advances, a bright moon illuminates the whole ocean. The dragon's jewels are found in every wave. Looking for the moon, it is here, in this wave, in the next. It dawned on me then what the Tenzo I had met the previous year had said coincided perfectly with what Zuedo was pointing out through his gata. I realized more than ever that the Tenzo was a man fully living out the Buddhadharma.

[19:23]

I used to see the characters one, two, three, four, and five Now I also say 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10. Future students must be able to see this side from that side, as well as that side from this side. Practicing with intense effort, using all your ingenuity, you will be able to grasp genuine Zen that goes beyond the surface of characters. To do otherwise may only result in being led about by various tainted Zen that will leave you incapable So to be able to see this side from that side and that side from this side means to be able to see the whole from the particular and to be able to see the particular from the point of view of the whole. So to prepare

[20:27]

a beautiful, wonderful meal from a tiny seed and to be able to appreciate every little bit of the whole meal from the point of view of the whole meal. Of course, meal and preparation is more than just food. So that's the story behind the poem. What I wanted to talk about today. I've talked about this recently, I think, but it's one of my favorite stories from Suzuki Roshi, which we titled, The Zen of Going to the Restroom. So Dogen says, I mean, Suzuki Roshi says, how do you feel right now?

[21:38]

And then he laughs, he says, I don't know how you feel, but I feel as if I just came out of the restroom. Even when I was young, no, I used to, I'm pretty old, so I go to the restroom rather often. Even when I was young, I went to the restroom more than others, and sometimes I had an advantage because of that. When I went to Eheji Monastery in Sant'Agario, a period of continuum sitting for several days, required for entering a Zen monastery, I could go to the restroom without a guilty conscience because I had to. So if you've ever been, when you go to the monastery, you know, you go through the Tangario, it's the small gate that squeezes you into the monastery.

[22:44]

You sit for seven days or five days or whatever, and you can get up and go to the bathroom. You eat when everybody else eats. So that's it. But some people say, well, I think I have to go to the bathroom. But he says, I really had to go to the bathroom. So that was the big break I had. keeping, not only other things, to not let yourself get caught with all the stuff that you feel you have to hang on to.

[23:48]

You know, you're talking about our mind being, our mind pollution mental pollution. I remember, I think it was the Second World War, or it may have been Vietnam, where it was American captives, I think maybe it was Vietnam, or American But that's Zen. Zen is brainwashing.

[24:48]

If you practice it well, it's a kind of brainwashing. You're allowed to wash all the crap out of your brain, which stays in there and ferments and creates big problems for us. So he says, I think going to the restroom is a good way to look at our practice. So we're so fortunate to have zazen, which is actually a kind of way of allowing us to wash our brain, to wash our mind, wash all the dross out of our mind, so that we become clear. And it's not like, you know, it builds up, it builds up, but as a practice, So I think one of our major ways of practicing is to continuously let go.

[26:01]

Continuously let go of the stuff in our brain, in our mind. If there's something that's really important, it will be there. But there's so much that isn't important, and it feeds our ego. How to let go of resentments. Resentments fester and poison our mind. How to let go of certain kinds of desires which, you know, Actually, we chase them. Frustrations of not having what we want and having what we don't want, which pollute our mind, but we hang on to them.

[27:13]

When we sit in Zazen, we can see what it is that is filling our mind. taking up space. So when we have anger and resentment and confusion, sometimes it's been characterized as an airplane circling the field but unable to land. We actually have a hard time sometimes being able to land, to land in the ground, in the mine ground, because we can't land, because the stuff is swirling around and swirling around.

[28:24]

Did you ever think of, you probably have had a chain of Sometimes it's a song, when you're sitting sazan. What comes out of your mind when you're sitting sazan? All kinds of stuff. How can you let that go? Well, you know, there are various ways of letting it go. pollution because we hang on to something and won't let it go. And when we don't let it go, it takes up space. So what do we really want to be thinking about? What is it that makes us happy?

[29:26]

happiness. So, to be able to let go of something, when it appears, is the best way. If we're insulted, we harbor that. But if we can not harbor that, and let it go right away, you may come back, and then But if our practice is to let everything go, then when it comes up, you let it go. It's hard to let it go if you don't have a practice of letting go. So sometimes someone will say, well, how can I deal with my anger? They say it in an angry way sometimes. How can I deal with my anger?

[30:44]

Well, they want a formula for a quick fix, but there's no quick fix. Even if you say, well, you do it this way or that way, it doesn't help because you have to practice it. You have to practice letting go as a practice all the time. It's just like, well, how can I develop love? You can't. You have to practice it as part of your being. And then it's there. So we kind of want quick fixes. People want quick fixes. But it doesn't help. It has to be part of you. So letting go has to be integral as you practice. I remember when I was abbot at San Francisco Zen Center. I always let people interrupt me.

[31:46]

There'll be somebody knocking on the door, telephone, blah, blah, blah. And I just stop whatever I'm doing and just take care of that rather than thinking, but I have to, I have to, I have to. You don't have to. If you practice Sometimes we feel disloyal to our emotions. That's one of the biggest problems. When I feel disloyal to my anger, if I'm angry, it comes up and I have an object for my anger. Sometimes I just need an object in order to express my anger. Because I need to express.

[32:50]

So we should be careful about that. I need to express, so I'll pick out this little thing and express it to them. That happens all the time. So, do I need this? Am I loyal to it? What happens if I don't, if I'm not honoring my anger? I think we should honor our anger. That's what it is. And let it go. What state do we want to be in? Do I want to be an angry person? Do I want to be a resentful person? What kind of person do I want to be? Why do I want to live like that? Well, I have to live like that because I have to be loyal to my emotions. I'll be betraying my emotions if I'm not.

[33:54]

I'll be a coward. But that's not true. We should be able to see something as it really is. And then we don't have to be a slave to our emotions and a slave to our feelings. We're willing slaves. We don't have the chains, but we enslave ourselves. give ourselves over to our chains. Sometimes it's called the golden threads, you know, like enslaving ourselves to money. It's like binding ourselves with golden threads. So, how do we find our freedom? We talk about freedom a lot. We talk about freedom to do, freedom to want, freedom to have, but we don't talk about freedom from.

[34:55]

In Buddhadharma, it's freedom from, not freedom to do. When you have freedom from, then you're free to do. But freedom from, I remember Bishop Sumi, when he was the bishop in Los Angeles, Tsukiroshi would invite him up. That's when we'd do Sushin. And he'd do Sushin with us. We'd fall asleep. But he had a stick. And you'd walk around with a stick. And the stick had these characters on it. I said, what do the characters mean? He said, free from everything. And so that's scary when you think about it. Free from everything. Well, do I really want to be free from everything? No, I want to be caught by things.

[35:58]

Actually, we do. We want to be caught. And we put ourselves out there so we can be caught, because it's interesting and exciting. But then we say, oh my God, you know. And we just get caught in the wheel. So free from everything. How do we do that? Or do we want to do that? We want to practice the Dharma. And we put ourselves in there and get ourselves involved. But then it comes to a point where we have to say, do I really want to do this? How far do I want to go? How far do I really want to go? And then we get stuck somewhere. But that's normal and natural. It's not bad or wrong. It's just that we get stuck because it's hard to let go of the stuff that we cherish. And it's hard to let go of the stuff we cherish that is not good for us.

[37:02]

It's hard to let go of the stuff that we cherish that causes us pain and suffering. So we need to have compassion for each other. Sometimes we get angry at each other when we don't really see what's actually happening, but are just reacting to the surface of things. And when we're reacting to the surface of things, it blinds us to what's really happening with each other. So we have to get beyond the surface and see, well, what is the cause of this person's acting in a certain way? And be free from our own reactions. Because as soon as we start reacting, we get caught.

[38:11]

And so how to stay free? from reacting and express compassion. So as Joshu says, you know, you can slobber all over me, you can spit at me, but I'm not going to do that with you. reaction, or activity, so that I can actually be helpful to you. So, giving up and letting go, moment by moment, that's the same thing as Satsang. That's what Satsang is. Giving up and letting go, moment by moment. You can't sit in Satsang, you can't do seven days of Satsang,

[39:15]

Letting go, moment by moment. Giving up and letting go, moment by moment. If you're hanging on to anything, you start suffering. I wanted to ask you this question, this is a good moment, about something you said yesterday, and we're almost on the same topic today. I think you said, in the middle of your talking about letting go and Zazen, that people who really do Zazen never die. Did you say that? Did anybody remember you saying that? It was in passing. I didn't say that, but that's good. Obviously, you don't mean that literally, so I can make up things that you meant by that. But if you did say that, what did you? Well, sometimes if someone says something, if I say something, it triggers something that you're thinking about. So I hallucinated that. It's not a hallucination, but it's a lucid thing.

[40:19]

It's true. How is it true? If that's true, how is that true? Well, because you weren't ever born. If I really do Zazen? Or what about people who, isn't everybody not really born, whether they do Zazen or not? Well, that's not the right question. There are two ways that we view birth and death. One way is that we were born, we entered the world at a certain time and we grew up and then we got old and then we died and then we left the world. That's the usual way of looking at birth and death. The larger way of looking at birth and death is that nothing ever really is born or dies. It's simply continuation of dharmas. But we create a story about birth and death because our experience is we started here and we ended there.

[41:35]

That's our experience. But in actual, when we actually analyze and look at it, you don't know when you started. You know, you had two parents, and they came together and created something, but it wasn't creating something out of nothing. And then before them, that happened, and before them that happened. So there's a continuous life of birth and death. And then when it ends, it's not like that That's annihilation. It's a continuation of birth and death. So if you really do Zazen, then you know this, so that's why you don't die. No, that's not why you don't die. You don't die because it's a fact. Well, what about the people who don't really do Zazen? They don't die either.

[42:37]

I didn't say that if you do Zazen. I didn't say the thing that you said. I'm just trying to get to where you are. I've had two different conversations with two different people recently and they're related, not really related. One person doesn't sit zazen because when they sit they get very angry and all this stuff gets churned up. Another person is going through deep, deep suffering and the only relief they get is in zazen. conversations and my mind is trying to put something together here about these two kind of, I don't want to say extremes, but these two phenomena. Yeah, two extremes. If you could say something about that.

[43:42]

Almost like Dan if you do, Dan if you don't. No, it's just anger is anger, joy is joy. The person who always gets angry when they sit, they should sit more. And the person who feels relieved when he sits doesn't, should sit more. And not sit less? No, not sit less. They should both sit because this is just two sides of the same coin. They're just two sides of the same coin. If you fall in love with somebody, the whole world is alive for you. And that person says, I hate you, and leaves. And then you hate that person. Or it does something to you. It leaves with another guy or something. And then you take that same energy for which you love that person, and you hate them with it.

[44:46]

It's the same energy. So, it's the same thing. So anger is not a thing. It's just an aspect of energy. And enjoyment is just an aspect of energy. They're just two different expressions of the same thing. So they should both sit and even out. If the guy with the anger sits long enough, it might even out the way he's feeling. neither elated nor angry. So the work for the person who finds the relief in Zazen, if you're not particularly advocating, you should work more out in the world, off the cushion, to try to deal with your, whatever that upset is. Your feeling is that on the cushion, in both cases, the people's lives will be... One, three, five, seven.

[45:49]

A number of years ago you gave a talk and in the talk you mentioned a cartoon. A cartoon. And the cartoon shows this baggage plane that you had in an airport. These people are dangerous. Oh, there's my anger. It occurred to my ex. It was called emotional baggage. The emotional baggage check. I had that hanging up in my wall. I wanted to put it in the newsletter, but the person who was doing the newsletter at that time said,

[46:54]

But they might sue us for putting it in the newsletter. Oh, come on, you know. But we didn't put it in there. I'm still thinking about that. Emotional bag of shit. I'm going back to Paul's question. You may have said something about dying. If you really sit Zazen, you may age, but you don't get old. That's right. I did say that, yeah. Or you may get old, but you don't age. Yeah, you may age, but you don't get old. Yeah, that's right. You may even look wrinkled and so forth. Yeah, that's my goal. I have a question about going to the restroom practice. I noticed, you know, yesterday you were talking about how everybody leaves during kin-hin.

[47:58]

Yes. And can they really be going to the restroom? And today I noticed, with great admiration, that you didn't leave during kin-hin, but then you left right before service. Yes. So I wonder if you had some enlightenment over 90 minutes going into, 20 minutes of service going into... I don't have to go to the bathroom very often, even though I'm old. So I assume you must have left for another reason. I did. I'll tell you why I left. Because over the last 10 days or so, I've had a case of shingles. I don't know if you know what that is, but it's very painful. And it starts out as itchy, and then it's irritating, and then it's painful. And it kind of goes back and forth between these three. you just kind of have to let it do its cycle or whatever. And so I'm kind of saving my energy.

[49:01]

And so instead of doing morning service, I go and take a little break. That's kind of what I do. And then, you know, I take a little novocaine, I guess it's wasn't very spacey, because I had taken some of that. But I'm regulating it so that I don't take it before my talk. That's the reason. As long as we're asking questions. Back to you being Abbott at San Francisco Zen Center. Being willing to drop whatever you're doing when anyone comes in, that seems incredible to me.

[50:06]

Well, I still do that. But I started doing it then. In my home, my wife and I are both retired, so we hang out at the house a lot. And I'll be in working on something, and boom, she'll come in. and wants some attention, right there. I know, believe me. Can't you see I'm in the middle of a sentence? What you said, just amazing. Yeah, but I don't always do that with her. He always allows exceptions. for your primary religion. As long as you're practicing well with others.

[51:08]

I think it's time.

[51:35]

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