in America, these classifications don't really hold true to form the way they do in other countries. For instance, in America, we have priests who are householders and we have householders who are priests and we have priests who are monks and monks who are priests and we have monks who are householders and householders who are monks So I want to explain a little bit about how our categories are not so strict and there's some need to look at what we actually do, how we actually practice and to think of ourselves in the way that we actually practice

[01:32]

rather than to stick to a stereotype. And also to see ourself in true perspective. Strictly speaking, you know, a priest is a... Well, strictly speaking, there are no priests in Buddhism. There are monks. Chinese have developed, I think, a kind of priesthood, and Japanese developed a priesthood. In Southeast Asia, there's no Buddhist priesthood.

[02:39]

There's just monkhood. And in India, I'm not sure how it was. So in a place where Buddhism is practiced very strictly according to the ancient ideal, you have monks and laypeople. So you have male monks and female monks and laymen and laywomen. Those are the four classifications. And they don't cross over. And a monk is a single male who is not married and who has no possessions and practices with the Sangha as a monk. and the same with a nun. And lay people take five precepts or eight precepts and practice as a householder.

[03:49]

And sometimes the lay people practice with the monks. And when they do, they take an ordination where they take a few more precepts, eight precepts. and it may be for a week or a season or a few years and then they go back to lay life again. But there's not a priesthood. But in Chinese and Japanese Zen, there's a monkhood and a priesthood. It's a little uncertain as to what a priest is and what a monk is, but a priest is more someone who is established in their practice and has some function. Say, someone that is the head of a temple, so they are a priest, or a head of some training, or is a teacher.

[05:06]

And so for us, a priest is someone who is ordained and has some function, whether they're in a training situation or not. Whereas a monk is someone who is in a training situation or lives in a certain way that is very strict. In Japan, during a certain period in Japanese history, priests and monks were asked to get married to Mary and become, not necessarily householders, but married And so it became a tradition of married priests.

[06:15]

And that tradition is carried over to our tradition, because all of our teachers that came here were married, all the Japanese teachers. we have a kind of householder priest. And this is also true in Japan, but in America we have, because our practice is so different, we have what you can call a householder monk, which includes men and women. I just used that term for lack of a better term, but when I say monk or priest, it includes men and women. And that person, without being ordained, can practice just like a monk or a priest, which means having a delineated way of life.

[07:31]

within a certain framework of practicing zazen and studying and restricting your life to a certain area of practice, which is very consistent. And since we don't make a distinction in our practice between We allow everyone to practice in the same way. The categories get very shady. You can't say exactly who is a monk and who is a layperson, who is a householder, and who is a priest. You can say who a priest is because a priest is ordained. That's pretty firm. But the other categories are not so firm, and they overlap.

[08:44]

So this question, although it has come up, has never been fully addressed. in our practice and it's something that we will be addressing. What kind of category do we fit into, each one of us? I don't want to speculate on it so much today, but I want to use that as a foundation for where each one of us is in practice. Our particular practice, which is called lay practice, I'm a priest but you're lay people. We don't practice like Sunday school.

[09:52]

It's not like going to church. Doing Zen practices, for some people it's like going to church, which is okay. it can be very narrow or very broad. And I was talking to someone the other day, yesterday, and they said, you know, they don't come to siddhasan every day, and they're very hesitant to put in put themselves into a practice, but this woman remains kind of on the periphery of practice, but feels that she had to practice in her life because of her connection with Zen Zen. Her connection with Zen Zen is very valuable, and she feels that because she can have that, touch that, that it makes

[11:04]

she feels some sense of practice in her life. And I was talking about putting... about someone who spends a lot of time sitting zazen and practices very very regularly and She was comparing her practice to that other kind of person and saying, well, there's some judgment because you must think more of that person who puts in more time and effort to practice than you do of someone like me, who only comes sometimes and mostly to lecture. And I said, well, I don't really think any less of you or I really don't compare you with someone else."

[12:08]

And that was hard for her to understand that I didn't compare or didn't make a judgment on her practice or on her effort. We were talking about the residents at the Zen Center. and how the residents actually, whether they're ordained or not, actually practice a kind of monk's practice, a kind of lay monk practice, in that they all agree to practice in a certain way together, all the residents, which is a kind of a certain agreement and style and their life is restricted to that framework of practice.

[13:25]

Although they work and do what everybody else does to a certain extent, they want to remain within that certain restriction, so that their practice becomes more intense in a certain way. And so this woman was comparing her practice with that practice. And I said, but you don't need to compare your practice. with that practice, because these people are doing this at this certain time because of the circumstances of their life. The circumstances of their life have brought them to this point, whereas your life circumstances have brought you to the point where you're out there, but still connected to the practice.

[14:27]

But it was very hard for her to see that. And I think it's difficult for most of us to know, to feel okay about where we are within this practice. She said, well, I don't feel too comfortable with that. And I said, that's okay, not to feel comfortable with that. It's okay, you don't have to feel comfortable with that. It's good to not feel comfortable with it, because even though it's okay for you to be in that place, we always encourage a little bit more than what you want to give, or what you feel is right. So one day during lecture I said, I was encouraging people to practice on Saturday morning.

[15:42]

I said, this is a wonderful opportunity for your practice to do the whole Saturday morning. And she felt that I was saying, if you don't do it, I won't like you. Or if you don't do it, you're not really practicing. And I didn't mean that. I'm always encouraging everyone to do as much as they can. But you should know what you can and can't do. If I don't encourage you, I don't know if you will do anything. If someone doesn't encourage us, what will we do? But at the same time, we have to know where we are in life, in our life, and just how much we can manage, given all of the circumstances of our life.

[16:46]

We have to balance all of the circumstances of our life with our participation in the Zendo. So, if we start to compare ourselves with someone else, we run into trouble. We say, oh, well, Joe or Mary, they're really practicing, you know, and I'm not because they're sitting zazen every day and I only sit zazen once a week. If we compare ourselves in that way we feel very inadequate but we can't look, if we compare ourselves or make some judgment in that way we overlook the actual value of practice for ourself.

[17:52]

I really feel that at some point as householders or as laypeople, at some point in our life It's very valuable for us to practice in a concentrated way for a period of time different from our usual way. I think it would be very valuable for people to go to Tassajara for one training period. But I know that that's not possible. But what is possible is to make our practice available to yourself.

[19:00]

Our Saturday morning is something that we do to make this practice available in a a more concentrated way. And one day sitting is a way of leaving home, you know, and you become, actually you become a monk for that day. And if you sit sashi, you become a monk for seven days. You give up the householder's life and practice as a monk for seven days. And then you go back to your householder's life. So we do have those opportunities. And so I'm always encouraging you to take those opportunities that we do have to practice.

[20:07]

And in between those opportunities, to live as a householder and to follow the householder's presets and to make your life a life of practice as much as you can. So when we participate in our more concentrated practice, it gives us some way of bringing that back into our life. We come to Zazen and Sishin and Saturday practice and daily Zazen.

[21:12]

And then we go back into our household life. So we go back and forth, and back and forth. And that back and forth includes both aspects in our life. And if we do that long enough, and with some real sincerity, sincere concentration and effort, then pretty soon those two aspects of our life There's not so much difference. Not so much difference because one will contain the other. And we can bring something very valuable into our daily life. One of the problems, if we only listen to lectures, then one of the problems that we have is that we get some idea about practice.

[22:33]

And we may think that we are practicing, even though we've never really touched it. So that's the problem with just listening to lectures. And if you sit zazen a little bit, once in a while, you may feel that you have a practice. But even so, it's pretty hard to judge somebody pretty hard to judge. And I myself, I'm always open to everyone. And even if someone sits down in one, I appreciate that person's effort for just sitting down in one time. So I'm always very open to everyone.

[23:40]

And to everyone's practice, no matter what it is, I will try and help you with it. No matter what your degree of participation you have in practice, I will try to help you with it. And not really judge it, I feel very good about sitting once in a while. But I very much appreciate people whose effort is to practice in a very sustained way. If we don't have people who practice in a very sustained way, then there's no room for people who practice in a very light way.

[24:47]

So even though we feel that practice has some benefit for ourself, really we're practicing for all those people. Beside practicing for ourself, we're creating a practice so that people can see that there is a practice and participate in it in some way. What the benefit of practice is, is pretty hard to put your finger on. It's pretty hard to say it's this or it's this. At first we practice for ourself in order to make some headway in our life.

[25:57]

And that's the first stage. First stage is just because we feel some lack or we feel that there's something more to our life than we experience, we enter into practice. And at a certain point, we stop having a reason, personal reason, and we just practice. That's the second stage. And the third stage is that we realize that it helps other people, that our practice is not just our practice, but practice for ourself and for others. But the second stage is the most important. All three stages actually we practice at once, but we pull them apart in order to make some point.

[27:05]

So we call that Bodhisattva practice. Everyone is on the road. We're all on the road. And we help ourselves and we help each other. As much as we can, we are open to others. and encourage other people. And the harder we practice, the more sincere our practice is, the more encouraging it is to others. Sometimes, you know, we have to give you a little spanking if you're naughty, or if you need some encouragement. But mostly, My feeling is that we all have a long way to go in our life.

[28:21]

And each one of us is in a different place. Both in all ways, actually, but spiritually, so to speak. We're all in a different place as far as our development goes. our spiritual development, where each one of us is in a unique spot. And to be able to know where each person is and to help that person where they are is very important. So sometimes he'd push people, and sometimes he'd leave them alone, and sometimes he'd ask them to go away. And sometimes you just wait, just let somebody do what they want to do.

[29:34]

You just wait, and at the right time, they knock on the door, and you open the door, and invite them in. So we have several levels of practice going on at the same time. One level of practice is very close and very obvious and that encourages, it's like the circle that turns the practice, the wheel that's turning and generating the energy for the practice. And that's the core of people who practice very steadily and obviously.

[30:36]

And then there is another circle of people who practice occasionally, or not quite as much, you know. part of that energy. And then there's another circle of people who participate in the left, and those are people way out there, individuals, who are still connected with the practice, and whose opportunity may not be so great, or who may have to wait a long time, or who, for some reason or another, are in that place. But all those people constitute the Sangha. And each one has their place in the Sangha. And it's beyond any kind of judgment. The practice has become any kind of judgment. And each one of those people is welcome and necessary and actually creates our practice.

[31:49]

But when we have the opportunity, we can change our place. And I always encourage you to change your place if you can. It's an opportunity, you know, to practice very concentratedly and close for some period and then go back. So anyway, our categories are not so strict. They do exist. but in some way they don't exist at all. And I'm always encouraging you to do a little bit more than you think you can do.

[33:05]

So if sometimes I seem pushy, it's because I want to always encourage you to do a little bit more than you think you can do. But you have to know where you are and what you can do. And that's very important. Maybe you have some questions. Yes? When one proceeds from encouragement, are they not judging and considering themselves? I mean, why does one proceed from Why does one proceed from encouragement? Well, you may not know what you should do, you know. You may feel, well, I can't do that, or I'm not ready to do that, or something. So, or, you know, if you're climbing up a mountain, you may feel tired or maybe scared, you know.

[34:16]

to go up a certain place. So you have some guy who says, I think you can do that. And you say, well, I'm not sure I can do that. And the guy says, well, I think you can do that. I'll help you. So the guy helps you to get past that place. And then you find this other nice grassy knoll, plateau. You say, oh, I'm glad I came up here. I'm glad you helped me. Yes. You said the second level of practice was the most important. Oh. Practice for practice? Yeah, practice just for the sake of practice. Why is that most important? Because there's no longer any question. No longer a question of who you're doing it for or why you're doing it. You've resolved those questions.

[35:17]

So actually, I should put it the other way. First, we practice for ourself. Our ego leads us to practice because we want to, usually, we feel there's something that we need to know or something that is more than we've accomplished. And when we get beyond our own egotistical reasons, then we open up our practice to include everyone. And so we're just as interested in helping everyone as we are in helping ourselves. At some point, you can be just as interested in helping other people as you are in helping yourself. That's a very

[36:21]

definite stage in practice. You don't necessarily do something just because it helps you, but, or, you know, you get outside of yourself, and you see that other people need help, or there's some way that you can, something you can do for other people, and that becomes just as important as what you do for yourself. And a third stage is You're not doing it for yourself, you're not doing it for other people, you're just doing it. You don't need to have those reasons. But it includes all those reasons. Yes. Yeah, I can.

[37:23]

You mean what they are, what the difference is? Yeah. Ordinarily, as I said before, strictly speaking, in Buddhism you have monk's ordination. And lay people take precepts. five presets, that's usual. And then when they do a training, they take eight presets. But because we don't really, in Japan, this is interesting, in Japan that system didn't carry over. When Buddhism came to Japan, Saicho, a monk named Saicho, who was brought to Tendai practice, the Chinese Tendai school, teaching to Japan.

[38:29]

It's called Tendai Buddhism. It was a very eclectic kind of school of Buddhism in Japan. He felt that it wasn't appropriate to have the usual kinds of presets. So, I talked about this last time, the Bodhisattva presets and the lower vehicle presets, the Hinayana presets, because it wasn't necessary to do the Hinayana presets, only the Bodhisattva presets, which is 16 presets. And that idea pretty much permeated Japanese Buddhism. And so what we have in Japanese Buddhism, mostly is Bodhisattva precepts, which is 16 major precepts and 49 minor precepts.

[39:36]

But we don't take the minor precepts. And strictly speaking, there is not a lay ordination. Because in our particular practice, both lay people and monks and priests take the same precepts, same 16 precepts. If you have priest ordination, you take 16 precepts. And if you have, that's called tokugo. And if you have lay ordination, you still take the same 16th, and it's called Jukai. But when a priest gets ordained, they shave their head and put on the large robe, Buddhist robe. And when a lay person gets ordained, as a lay person, they don't shave their head.

[40:41]

And they don't put on the large robe, they have a raksu. Raksu is like what Fran is wearing. And it's a robe. Same robe as the large, this is the large robe. Sometimes I wear the small one. But in the Zindo, I always wear the large robe. And that's a priest's robe. But a layperson doesn't wear a priest's robe, they wear the small one. only. And they remain as a lay person. But they also, it looks like, you know, that lay ordination is a very sincere kind of ordination Some people think it's just a kind of token or ordination for laypeople, but actually it's a very serious thing that you do.

[41:56]

Because even though you remain as a layperson, you have taken these precepts and you practice these precepts as a layperson. And a priest practices them as a priest. And a priest wears the robe and sets an example. And their life should be actually, it can go various ways, but your life should be dedicated to helping lay people, if you remain as a priest, to teaching and making practice available. And a layperson takes those precepts as a confirmation of their practice. It's, you know, a way of bringing the lay and priest together, you know, to confirm the practice.

[43:03]

It's recognition and confirmation. Usually, to take five precepts, you don't really have to have much practice. Taking five precepts, anybody can do that. And that's somewhat usual in Buddhism in general, is for a layperson to take five precepts. You just take those precepts and you feel that you're a part of the Sangha, the great Sangha. But our 16 precepts are a little different. We don't just give anybody those precepts. You have to be practicing somewhat... You have to feel there's some sincerity in your practice over a period of time. And then the precepts actually confirm that practice that you've already been doing. So that's why what we call our jhutai or lay ordination is really different than the usual five precepts ordination that most people take in Buddhism as lay people.

[44:17]

It's an actual confirmation of practice as a lay person. And so it's a little fuzzy area. Okay, thank you.

[45:07]

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