thing we were bringing up, and that's a chapter in Not Always So, I don't remember. I'm not sure which one it is. And then at the last class, there was this thing about the precept, the upright body and the upright mind, which was kind of bringing up the kind of yogic element that we talked about in the first class. Anyway, I just thought that was interesting. Tonight's class, I'm going to be covering the period of the Sung Dynasty in China, pretty much, which roughly, just for a mnemonic device, around 1000 AD. And I was somewhat daunted. This was the period of time when the Koan collections and literature was more what was happening then five schools being established, which is what was happening in the previous Tang dynasty.

[01:03]

And, you know, let's see. So, koans are kind of, to me, they're a way to kind of point to something that can't really be explained. And so it's very hard to know what to say about them. And what's the, you know, way to talk about them. So anyway, I did get some ideas, so I hope, I just hope it's going to work. This first page is kind of the most historical discursive part of the class. The first person who really got into making little verses about koans, which are basically stories. They can be from literature, from like past Buddhist literature, or even folklore.

[02:06]

They are mostly, most often, a conversation between a teacher and disciple, where the feature is that the disciple had an enlightenment experience through that encounter. But they can also be other things too, but that's sort of the main thing. And so they were sort of like just word-of-mouth stories that people were repeating to each other. And then her first person, Feng Yang, wrote them down and added a little verse. And he created three different collections of them. But I'm not even sure those have been translated as far as I know. I'm not familiar with that name until I studied this. just a little bit later, Xue Du, which is also spelled H-S-U-E-H, T-O-U, if you're trying to figure out if that's the same person. And in Japanese, he's referred to as Setcho.

[03:08]

He really was one of the most prolific writers. And he produced a huge body of literature and the most, and he's especially known for this one collection, which was a hundred, took a hundred of these koans and added a verse to it. And then his descendant, or a descendant in actually a different line in a sense, Yuan Wu, made this more complete by adding little introductions which are called pointers at the very beginning and then he and we'll see this later when we actually look at the koans but little graffiti in the kind of in the margins of the story and commentary and that was called the Blue Cliff Record which is for us one of the most famous collections of koans. And then at a similar time Hong Zhih who is

[04:11]

The Silent Illumination Guide. There's a book that was recently translated. Cultivating the Empty Field. That's Hong Xiu. And he also did his own verses to his own selection of a hundred poems. And about a hundred years after that, Wan Song added the commentary. So Wan Song is like Yuan Wu. Hong Xiu is like Xue Du in terms of this book, the Book of Equanimity. and Book of Serenity in one translation, Book of the Echelon of the Museo. And then another, a descendant of Yuan Wu, who was alive at the same time as Hong Zhuo, saw the way students were studying the booklet record and was really upset. with how they were studying it, and got so upset that he burned all the wood blocks that they made the books from.

[05:16]

I don't know if he got, I don't think he obviously didn't get all of them, but he, you know, in a bit of something. And he was also a very big writer, and he taught the Booth Book Record, and he wrote these pretty famous books. I've heard of Precious Lessons from the Zen Forest. I'm not sure what Treasury of Eyes of True Teaching is. I know that Precious Lessons has been translated. And I didn't have time to talk to the researchers, but you could do their research. And then quite a bit later, Wu Men, who was in the lineage of Yuan Wu, did some, created his own book called the Mu Man Khan, which was, he took the case, he wrote, a verse and a very short commentary. And that's called the Mumonkan. In some ways, it's almost like the most refined of the three. So the Blue Cliffs Record is really strong. And the Book of Serenity is a little more kind of murky or something.

[06:21]

And then the Mumonkan is like really refined. At least that's one way to talk about it. You can actually read it yourself and decide that you can. Often the case, there's a lot of similarity in the cases. It's not the same cases, but a lot of the most famous cases, like the by John Spock, people have heard of that, and Nonsense Cutting the Cat, a lot of the most famous ones. So, you know, Does a Dog Go to Nature? are in two, if not, not very many are in all three, but several of them are in at least two of these. And Da Hui is interesting because Hang Zhi is actually... Da Hui and Hang Zhi were contemporaries and friends but they also had a big sort of literary disagreement about what was true practice. Hang Zhi was into the silent illumination and Da Hui was into more the koans.

[07:24]

And they... I wouldn't say called each other names, but I mean, if you read it, you would think that they're, it's a very, it's almost like sectarian. But then you find out that they're actually good friends. So it's really interesting to look into that. I'm not going to go into it too far. Because, but when we get to Hangzhou, we're getting very close to Dogen. Hangzhou in time. Where is he? Is he in here? Yeah, he's like an uncle or great-great-uncle or something. Right, but this is sort of the same school. Although, yeah, anyway, so we'll probably get into that a little more next week. I wanted to bring up an interesting dialogue that Ross and I had when we first met about teaching this class, which was, oh wait, first before that I want to tell you that the reason why Da Hui was so irritated with what the students were doing

[08:35]

I mean, there's a lot of different, if you read the literature, there's all kinds of different ways you can study Koans. You can meditate, you know, meditate on the turning phrase, you can, but it wasn't so much what they were doing in that sense, but the way they were talking about the Koans was as if they could never be like these guys. You know, they were, it was like they were talking about them, like venerating them and copying them and studying them, but not like thinking that they could do that somehow. That's the way I read it anyway. And, and I think that Ross and I had a discussion where it kind of came up, are we like these guys or not? And Ross kind of taking the position that, yeah, we're like these guys. And, you know, as he, as he said last week, this, this is the golden age is in. And, um, meet feeling like, no, I just, we're not yet like these guys.

[09:40]

And that's one way I feel. So we're not yet like these guys. And also that we don't get to say, from my point of view, we don't get to say, we don't get to say whether we're like these guys or not. It's an example of how these dialectics just can naturally arise in our everyday life. And in a certain way, I think that one way you could look at it is we're both kind of pointing to the same thing, because when I hear, we are like these guys, I hear, part of what I hear is we're off the hook, we're already doing it, we just have to keep doing what we're doing, and we're doing it. And, but the other... Right. And so the other side, though, is if you take my position, we're not like these guys, we're off the hook because we'll never be like them. We can't do that. The best we can do is just study them and venerate them. And I think the point is... Right.

[10:42]

The point is either way we're not off the hook. And that's really, I think, the attitude that you need if you're going to study poems. You need to feel like you are on the hook. I am on the book. And you know, just like Mel is not going to make it into history books if we don't wake up. That's it. Not that we would do it for that, but Buddhism is not going to be available to people in the future. If we don't make it, if we don't realize it within ourselves, we're not just going to copy these sutras and pass them on. You know, we couldn't wake up, but we hope you do. It's just not going to happen that way. So, I just, I think that's an important thing to keep in mind when you're studying. I chose a koan that we could study and I talked to Mel several times about this and his idea was, we came up with this idea together that I would pick a koan that was in all three and we would look at the three collections by how they treated the koan but that didn't happen.

[12:07]

And then he said, he got the great idea that I'm going to be the shuso for the practice period in a few weeks and he's going to be giving me a koan that I'm supposed to be talking about. He said, oh, I'll give you that koan now and then you can teach me in your class. Fortunately, he didn't get around to that, but that didn't happen either. Then I decided, based on this thing I was thinking about, the thing about whether we're like these guys or not, I chose a poem based on that. And it is in two of the collections. It's in this first one, where it says Huang Po, who's really Huang Bo, is from the blue book record. And the second one, The Drake's Lurpers one is from the Book of Serenity. And then, because I couldn't bear to not give you something from the other one, I chose one that happens to be a personal favorite of mine.

[13:12]

I don't have the whole... So this one, Notchwan's Ordinary Mind is the Tao. I didn't copy all of A. Komoroshi's commentary. So with... With Lumen, there's not much commentary of him. You see the case, you see his little comment, and you see his verse, and then in every translation that we have, and there's quite a few, there's the modern commentary. So this is Ekin Roshi's version. And then on the back is Nyogen Senzaki's version, which Mel has a Xeroxed copy of, which he also gave me to try to wake me up about what this is all about. And so I couldn't decide which one of these to pick, so I just arbitrarily picked one that fit on one page that I liked. And I'm not sure if there's a copy of this in the library or what, but this is the Blue Clip Record cases.

[14:17]

Cases from the Book of Record. And I think it's Nyogen Senzaki's verse and comment. I'm pretty sure. So he's just taking the story and then he does his own commentary. So these are for you to read later because we're not going to do this. Those are the last two tonight. And then I was thinking I wanted to sort of divide things up. And we're not going to read everything of everything. But I thought if one person, like perhaps Robert. Aren't you Robert? Why did you look away when I said Robert? Because I'm not Robert. I was looking at Robert. Robert's going to do the pointer. And then... Leavenworth, why don't you be Fongo? And we won't do the narrative of the case. We'll just do it as a real dialogue.

[15:19]

And Brian, why don't you be the monk? And I think what we'll do, we should do this. And then we're going to not read the commentary right now. We're going to go ahead and read the poem. Did I not get the poem? Oh no, the poem is on page 77. So Anne, why don't you read, then you'll read the poem. And then we're going to go back and read the case with the graffiti. These notes are not like translator notes. These are like the notes that Yuan Wu scribbled in to the story here. So at the point we're going to, we're going to read, we're not going to do this the first time, we're just going to read the point of the case and the verse. And then we're going to come back and read the case. Did I say read?

[16:21]

You're going to read the verse. So you're going to read the point, the notes, the poem. Okay, that's the verse. The verse and the poem. Oh, the verse. And then maybe Francesca, why don't you, then we're going to redo the case when you see the number. the person, well, let's see how she does it. I'll read the narrative and we'll reenact the case with the notes, okay? So, does everybody know what they're going to do? Let's try it. Let's, you know, put a little English on it. Go ahead. Yes, go ahead. The great capacity of the Mason patriarchs is to be within his control. The lifeline of confusing gods is an important subject in his direction.

[17:22]

With a casual word of appraise, he astounds the crowd and stirs their masses. With one device, one object, he smashes, chains, and unclogs fetters, making transcendental potential and brings up transcendental matters. But tell me, has this ever come up like this? Are there any? We know where he's at in the past, and I cite this book. We won't do the narrative this time. Just do the quote. All of you people are novelists, right? People are traveling around the world. What do you have to say? Do you know that there are no people who are traveling around China? Then, what about those in various places who order followers and lead communities? Huh? I do not say that there is no chance. This cold, severe, solitary being does not keep thriving itself.

[18:27]

He himself doesn't know the passage. He, too, is a cosmopolitan. His cold, severe, solitary being does not take pride in himself. Solemnly dwelling in the sea of the world, he distinguishes bread from snow. Not shown from the sun of heaven, but the light of the angel. Three times he personally felt his own pain. Okay. So now let's go back and let's do the pointer again and then we'll do the case with the same people but I'll read the words that are the narrative. Oh, and then you're going to read the notes. And then Francesca, why don't you do the notes to the first also. Yeah, as we go along. Go ahead.

[19:28]

A great capacity for this nature of systematical discontrolling, a lifeline of myths and gods, is entirely subject to this direction. In the casual word or phrase, you can espouse the crowd and disperse the masses. With one device, one object, it smashes, chains, and knocks off feathers. Any transcendental potential can bring some transcendental heathens. But tell me, has it ever come on like this? Are there any people who are willing to examine, to test, I cite this in the book. Longbow, instructing the community, said... Wait, hang on just a sec. When you see these little numbers, Francesca's going to do that. Drawing water is limited by the size of the bowl. As well as all one bowl. No patchwork among the world can be clear. Oh, I see what you're talking about. Right. Well, I'm traveling somehow. Is that it? Whoops. Hang on. Isn't that it? You'll wear out your strong memory. What's the use of today?

[20:32]

Nothing can stop us from astounding the crowd and stirring up the community. I hadn't realized, as well as all one goal, that we two of the club were like saints. Oh, at that time, sorry, a monk came forward and said, and what about, oh, sorry, he said. And what about those at various places who order followers and lead communities? He, too, gives a good thrust confronting a situation. He couldn't but do so. One more said, I do not say that there is no time. It is necessary. He just can't explain. The tiles are scattered. The ice melts. He's a fellow with a dragon's head but a snake's tail. His cold, severe, solitary nature does not take pride in himself. He himself doesn't know he has it. He, too, is a well-dwelling saint.

[21:34]

He is the only well-being seed of the world. He distinguishes right from wrong. It is still necessary to distinguish initiates and uninitiates, and it is also necessary that black and white be clearly distinguished. Ha-chun, the son of heaven, has been like his name. What touch on the sun of heaven are you talking about? However great, he too must get up from the ground. And even higher, there's still the sky. What about that? Three times he personally felt those clouds. A dead frog, why so talkative? It's not yet anything extraordinary, it's still a minor skill. When his great capacity and great function become manifest, then the whole world in all ten directions, the mountains and rivers and the great earth, all are at one close place begging for their lives. How many Ta-Chung sons of heaven were there? Wait, so what Ta-Chung sons of heaven were there? Is there more than one? Pastor Taocheng, the son of heaven, is recorded in the continued biographies that Tang emperor, Shen Tzung, had two sons.

[22:42]

One called Nuzong and the other called Shuangzong. His Shuangzong was the Taocheng emperor. There's a story there we could read if we want. What do you think? Well, anybody? Have a sense of it. It's kind of a poetic rephrasing or a metaphorical rephrasing that's supposed to shed a little light on spiritual life. Shedding light? I sort of... It's the way of holding it up in some way, right?

[23:55]

Huh, you mean the patriarchs and all that? I think we're talking about Huang Bo here. I think he's saying he's completely bringing forth the capacity of Buddhism Patriarchs. Do you think they must have been?

[25:09]

Huh, oh you mean the introduction is like too, too much for this little story? Huh. That's kind of the way I felt too. You mean, you're kind of let down when you get to the case? No, it's just like, it just doesn't turn off like I did. That's what it is. Huh. Anybody else? Well, it makes me feel like I don't get it. Because obviously the pointer, I mean, you know, is an astonishing event here. Right. Well, what do you think this is about there's, I don't say there's no Chan, just there are no teachers.

[26:16]

What do you think they were doing that made him want to say this? What do you think they might have been doing that made him look like gobblers and dregs? They were searching around for something as if it were outside themselves. And you're all looking for this great teacher. But in reality, there is no great teacher. Perhaps also, if there is a real teacher, there is no teacher. So we're talking about a person who's identified with the body.

[27:37]

Especially when we see him in this kind of dramatic, grandiose personification of himself as eternal. Maybe they were arguing, maybe they were kind of arguing about the five schools. Maybe they were traveling around, going from one to another, looking for the one. Okay. I'm not sure whether it's a bad thing, actually, that there are no teachers. I mean, maybe it's like, you know, a little bit, you know, the way it just kind of is. I don't, yeah, I don't think it's a bad thing. Yeah, I don't think he's not. He himself? He doesn't talk a lot himself. Well, the pointer's kind of talking about how great he is.

[28:38]

Pointers are all one rule. Is that right? He came after such a... He wrote the verse, so he's like... It's kind of like that. It's like the Greek chorus at the beginning or something. Is there a Greek chorus at the beginning or only at the end? Yeah. I like that. And also, for your tribute to Shakti, when he said that it is not a teaching career that he learned. He had better, as I said before, in the 45 years that he was teaching. Back in the real world, everyone was teaching the same. I'm going to give you a little story.

[29:54]

At the end of the video, I'm going to hand this over to you. I'm going to let you read this and then you're going to write it to yourselves. That's what the story said. That's what the story said. I think it's so you don't get too attached to the world itself. I don't know. I can't think of any other way to put it. It seems like a lot of the different schools have done it in a style of different commentary writers. They each had their own style. Is this style kind of similar to what you're writing? These pointers in the booklet record have a certain flavor. They all have a certain flavor. And there is a sense of... There's a sense of... You're not even close all the time.

[30:57]

You're not even close, you know. Whatever you are, whatever you say, you're not even close. Did you find your study that led to a new book record that started with more fishing than most versions of the cosmology that it was solved for? You know, I have to say that that's probably why I dropped out of college. I mean, I can't... To me, it's different enough that I can't really... I didn't get a sense of how different they were. They seem all very beautiful and very interesting. and different, but the cases are different from each other almost as much as the collections are. So, I mean, that's just not what I'm going to be good at, looking forward. But Annie, do you feel, in your studies, that that's a distinction in your commentary?

[32:00]

Well, even if I haven't lived in that extent, when just looking at the opah, the Yuan opah, it was just such a gentle, discursive nature to it. It's very, very different. Yeah, and it's poetic rather than, I mean, just that he's... Well, Yuan Wu is very sharp. And it's hard to tell whether Shui Du is so much. But Yuan Wu is still saying, you know, when he wants to really compliment someone, he says, you know, what an idiot he is. He's, you know. Yeah. I sort of want to read this explanation of the emperor. I've only read it once, but I can't.

[33:10]

This is the Daocheng emperor who was 13, though still young. He was keen and clever, and always liked to sit in the lowest posture during the reign of Wuzong. Page 78. One time, when the morning audience was over, Xuanzang playfully matted the imperial dragon prong. Oh, this is the brother. The brother of the emperor, I guess. The one son would sell the other. Xuanzang quickly met up with the real Dragon Throne and went through the motions of saluting the assembled officials. One of the great ministers saw this and thought that Xuanzang was demented, so he reported this to Luzon. Luzon saw Xuanzang, he rubbed his head and sighed, saying, my young brother is indeed a valiant son of my clan. Anyway, day 15 we're going to read the next version of the Serenity version out.

[34:28]

Let's take a little break here. Catch your breath. One thing I just want to pass on is when I brought up the Book of Serenity, Mel said, no one's going to read that. But there's one story in here that I really like. So hopefully this will be one. One thing that I like about the Book of Serenity is they actually, he actually, and maybe this is why it's not considered as Zen or something. He explains some of the idiom of the, cultural references and stories, he actually explains the background of them. And I just find that helpful in some cases. So let's have Eric, you do the pointer.

[35:28]

Leslie, you read Huang Bo. Who has it? I don't know. John? I did leave my glasses in the car, so I'm not quite sure. What do I have? Okay. Andrew, you do the month, I guess. How do we do it? Then we have the verse. Carol, can you do the verse? Can you do the glass issue, too? Marion, do you want to do the verse? The verse is, and I have to confess that in the interest of saving trees, I didn't copy the whole thing. So I didn't copy the notes. We can go to the book, or we could just... By the way, the book is remaindered in hardcover at, I think it's on Salonga Avenue for $20.

[36:30]

He made me this discussion, so I'm copying him. You're the introduction, aren't you? Facing the situation, you don't see it, but I've waited like a dozen to keep it to you. A sword that settles heaven and earth obliterates me sometimes. in order to capture tigers and rhinos, forgets fully understanding. Tell me, whose strategy is this? You people are almost worthless as a rat. If you travel like this, where would you have today? Do you know that in all of China, there are more teachers than you are? Hey, but what about those guide followers? Those guide followers and teachers? I don't say there's no charm, just the dirt.

[37:37]

The paths divide the rest as I, too much trouble. You don't like this? The fleets and clusters of flowers, bones, wood, and fences. The fleets wielding the dragging handles of years. examples of water and clouds on the hottest world. Third, the way tangles shift, shaving off the dams, the marks of the town, the tumors of the earth, the jade moon at the Golden Center, the old Hong Kong temple where we grew up, the bodies of the dead, cutting off the spring winds and gentle clouds. It seems like in both of these, they're seeing something about the lineage in this story.

[38:39]

Anybody else picking up on it? They seem to be bringing up the passing of it. I'm not sure. I wouldn't have seen that on my own, but I guess it has to do with whether they're teachers or not issue. OK, I want to read this. This beginning of the commentary has this story, which I want to read. This story is abbreviated. To bring the whole of it, one day Wang Bo went up in the hall and said, what do you people want to look for? And he chased them with his staff. What do you people want to look for? The assembly didn't disperse. So he said, you people are all Drake's lurkers. In Tom times, they like to rebuke people with the term Drake's Lurper. So he's saying this was like a common thing.

[39:41]

And I think, now, there's this story he brings up, which I think is not like the origin of the phrase Drake's Lurper, but an example of how people used it commonly. Once Lord Chih-Heng was reading a book in a room. Lumpian was planing a wheel outside the hall. Lumpian put aside his mallet and chisel, came up and asked, May I ask what you are reading, sir? The Lord said, A book of the sages. Lumpian said, Are the sages alive? The Lord said, They are already dead. Lumpian said, Then what you are reading is the grace of redemption. The Lord said, when a monarch reads a book, how can a wheelwright discuss it? If you have an explanation, all right. If not, then you die. Luke, Beyonce said, I look upon this in light of my own work. When I plane a wheel, if I go slowly, it's easy going and not firm.

[40:43]

If I go quickly, it's hard and doesn't go in. Not going slowly or quickly, I find it in my hands and accord with it in my mind. My mouth can't express it in words. There's an art to it, but I can't teach it to my son, and my son can't learn it from me. Therefore, I have been at it for 70 years, grown old making meals. The people of old and that which they couldn't transmit have died. Therefore, what you are reading, sir, is the drags of the ancients." I really like the story about the wheelwright and the sense that you do it, and you do it, and you learn how to do it. And I feel like Mel is often... One of Mel's teachings, I think, has to do with how you don't go to one extreme or the other, you know, not too soft, not too hard. And... So it seems like they're saying something about

[41:46]

how we learn, what we want to do with it. And I think this paths divide, threads are dyed is about the five schools or something. I kind of think so. The paths divide, threads are dyed. Yeah. And this wasn't that long before, I mean,

[42:52]

He's talking about his own time. I don't know, it's like he's critiquing this splitting of the schools, maybe, and not necessarily saying it's wrong, but... Or maybe making it into too much of a thing, or something. Making too much of it too much trouble. I was thinking about what you said about Zen counter-privileges. Zen isn't about thinking. It's just about doing everything. It's about eating and playing dead. And I think that's what we need to do. Which is sort of what you're saying. Yeah, and how we do that.

[43:54]

The teaching is like the thing about the pointing, you know, you're pointing to it, but if you're looking at the pointer, it's the dregs, it's just the dregs. If you're looking at what these guys said and trying to understand it too much rationally, it's just the dregs, it's what they left behind. As Marion says, if there's no teachers of Chan, then where all these books come from? Well, guys, I kind of thought I was going to suggest an assignment, which would be I say, we aren't like these guys. Ross says, we are. What do you say? We're both right.

[44:56]

And I wanted you to write a verse. He's going to make me write a verse, but it's 8.30 and I thought it would take longer. So what would people like to do? How can we... I mean, I guess the main thing I want, for you to leave this class, we should feel like this is our legitimate inheritance, that this is like a treasure chest. that your grandma left you up in your attic and you can just go there anytime. Open it up and pick up those jewels and use them for your own benefit of other people. So, that's what I'd like, um, but again, I mean, even so far we, we can see how we get kind of daunted. Sometimes the pointer is supposed to like sort of maybe jazz it up, but we get sort of daunted. So, um, I did a little. I wouldn't say a long time. I mean, I definitely have been through several call-ons with a group.

[46:02]

I remember the fun ones were ones where we kind of enacted them. There's this one where the woman walks around. We actually did this, we kind of got her physically walked around and stuff. And I think that, I do think, well, for me, Cohen's been like my first gate. I mean, when I was in high school, a friend of mine found the book, Flesh and Bones, on my own shelf and we read it. And so, I mean, I loved the stories. I loved the, The way they just seem to be about... different ways of working with koans where it's much more personal, where you're sort of like at your edge of practice. You're somehow pointed to your edge of practice by a particular koan and you're working with your teacher in a particular way, which actually I haven't done. And I don't know if it's the kind of thing that you have done, if you would talk about it or not. Is a koan ultimately to be solved, or is it just a potential challenge?

[47:21]

Yeah. I mean, there is this thing in the Rinzai school, which is sort of like... I feel like some of the Soto... It's like, what do we think? We hear about these stories about these guys in the Rinzai school, and they do. and they're like passing these colons, and they're having these kenchos, and, and, uh, there was this... One time at Tatsuharu Drinking Sashin, there was this guy that came from, I think Sasaki Rushi, or some Rinzai school, he came to the Sashin at, uh, Ringulch, and he got so pissed off, furious, and he decided to leave right in the middle, what? And he was like stuffing, I don't know who, I guess Rev or somebody, was stuffing, he was stuffing his clothes in his suitcase and saying, I'm leaving here, no one's here, no one hears that Kencho, no one hears that Kencho.

[48:30]

And Miriam, whose last name I forget, It was Jisha, I think it was whoever, someone, Lou or somebody, anyway, she said to him, yeah, Rinzai, when you go to Rinzai Temple, you get Kensho. Here, we just have bad backs and babies. I described him as a sort of a spiritual church monk, because he was, like, a dancer and had a very, you know, handsome complexion. But there is a sense, I don't know, of curiosity or fear or something for me when I think about that, like, wow, what would be like to do that? What if I couldn't and everybody else? I mean, there's all this, you know, I think we need to keep sort of bringing forth, like you say, what what our co-op realization is, you know, and not sort of feel like, well, we don't care.

[49:35]

We don't care. Here in our school, we don't understand those or something, you know. I think that this is a very good field. Many of the professors here But now and then you might want to be like, oh don't waste your time, or what's it say, we don't yet have to wake up at 3 to go to class. Well that doesn't mean it's that nice, but it's really just kind of like, what are you going to do if you don't have a job, what are you going to do if you don't go to class, or what are you going to do? when he got by in his career, between Da Wu and Hu Jirou, the sort of family relation that people were saying that the ones that were getting along were just so involved with that work that they wouldn't actually sort of settle down. It's like all this sort of up-energy kind of thing.

[50:35]

And Da Wu and Hu Jirou, Instead of the silent witness, you're just sitting there sort of passively not really doing anything. So, you can't say that you're just sitting there staring at them not doing anything, because you're very minded. In fact, there's been a great experience that we've all had that doesn't include that way, that doesn't go on those shows, as well as departments that you wouldn't agree with. where it doesn't, it's very mysterious at this time, you get wet, and you get wet, and you get wet, and you get wet. And maybe the pitfall of the sign of illumination is that you just kind of just sit in there like a lump on a log or something, you know.

[51:39]

There's no way to critique how well you're doing or whether you're really realizing anything there or not by your teacher, you know. Well, what John said, he said, the oracle unsolved, or they eventually give you a state of, in terms of your excitement or a little bit of pressure. And I think it's been a lot of comment to the first case. It was like this great ball of doubt, that's why I'm involved in this ball of doubt. There's a sense of urgency. I mean, not everybody has that sense of urgency. I think what happens in our life is something hits us and then there's a sense of urgency. And I think the beauty of working with a teacher and to see how something that we had a problem with a thousand years ago relates to this current crisis that I'm in right now, I would hope that that plays out in the right direction.

[52:46]

So again, it's... And so, we have, that's what we have here. Kendo calls are part of our everyday life. Right. Like, how did you move it up? What do you mean? Well, I think over the years, I don't know if you know, I've had many different things that were like koans that were kind of a focus. They weren't necessarily stories, but something to kind of... So you weren't just sitting there like a rock on a log.

[53:50]

And often, it's a point of posture. I think sometimes you have a point in your posture that you're not aware of. That you... It's kind of your calling. Like, I know for me, there's a certain way I hold my neck. It's really about how I establish myself. And so... I think at different times, your life is going to give you a focus. And that's more our way as to what's the thing that's coming together for you right now. Jeff. Sure, I mean, I think he's willing.

[54:58]

I'm not. I'm working on a project. I'm working on a project. It was just a little [...] project. It was just a initiated by the teacher or by the student? You mean what the teacher would say, I think, I would like you to study this forward. I wouldn't wait. If you were interested or if you felt like

[55:59]

if you felt like it would be helpful to you or all sentient beings to do it, I wouldn't wait. I would say, could I do this? And then if, I mean, I think there's a funny way in which we're often drawn to the almost the exact opposite thing that, you know, if, if your teacher said, no, [...] you know, I would listen to that and do this instead, you know, do, do your posture or whatever instead, I would listen to that. But I wouldn't wait, because I think it might have an interesting outcome. I'm going through the process of negotiating with the government about what I'm going to do. I can't do that today, but I'm going to do it in a systematic way. It's still going to be a process. It's not going to be the first process. It's going to be a process. But instead, it's going to be a process.

[57:01]

He can't do anything bad because of his back. He can't break any precepts because of his bad back. And you don't want that to happen? You want to control the outcome here? How can I do this so I can control the outcome? By the way, Dogen is all about koans. Dogen is all about Cohen, right? We're going to find that out next time. Well, we all talked on Saturday about the precepts and people often don't want to, I'm just referring to you, but a lot of people feel they can't do it, it's too daunting to be able to do this, and so I guess we've been referring to the precepts.

[58:45]

Do you know that conversation? I knew it was here. See? This is very confusing. I mean, I can't imagine going to Mel and saying, do you think I'm ready to read the Mulanka? I mean, I just went to the bookstore. But reading is different than saying, and you know, you hear someone you know came back from a retreat and they told you what they did and so you said you're going to do that on your own or something. I wouldn't do that. I think that there's enough, you know, there's sort of like time bombs or something there.

[59:52]

There's enough, or like maybe a cross between a time bomb and a time release vitamin or something. There's enough potency there that I would, you know, it's something you'd want to be checking in with a teacher-ish type of person about it. Because there are no teachers, right? There are no teachers. You're a kind of upgrade. You're an upgrade, yeah. Yes? Well, I would either open the book and stick your finger, you know, open it at random and take one no matter how accessible or incomprehensible and just sort of

[61:01]

read it and see if there's one little either, because not only is it this story, I mean, there's all these cool little stories inside here. And one of those little stories, I mean, I have had the experience numerous times of just finding a koan for some reason or other and just really responding to it. It really resonated. And I mean, this was supposed to be the getting started. What was the resonance that it makes sense to work in? Did you validate something that you had experienced before? What's the resonance? It gave me an angle to practice from. It gave me an angle in my life or something. Anybody else want to speak? I mean, yeah, I did come out of practice and I just... They didn't do anything for me. They just kind of sat there like, you know, like, like, like, you know, like something on the rug, you know. I just, I had no idea.

[62:03]

Heavy metals. Heavy metals, yeah. Not Time Bombs, heavy metals. Yeah. I mean, there's no much more grit than heavy metals, you know. What did you do? Do you mind telling us where that was? You were working with a teacher? Yeah, yeah. I was working with a teacher. It was my mom. And so, you know, sort of, this is an outgrowth of 20 years. So dope. Yeah. Did you get kicked out because of this? No, I just, at one point I said, you know, I just can't do anything with this. You know, and I don't know, I said, I feel the same way this, and then I look at this and I'm kind of like, you know, I have no idea what this is, you know. It doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't have no resonance at all. I mean, so that's why I'm curious, you know, how you get into it. You know, I think without, you know, too strong of a hand on it, just, you know, try another call.

[63:10]

Somebody found that helpful. I mean, the story is there because people found it helpful. It doesn't mean that there's something wrong with it. It just happens. I mean, instead of thinking, is this helpful or not, you know, is there something that springs to mind like, well, I know he doesn't mean this, but if he meant this, I would find that helpful. If he means, I know this can't be what it means, but if it meant X, I would find that helpful. Is there anything like that, you know? G. You know, so approaching it from a phase that there's vitamin in here for you. And it's just a matter of time. At some point it will be revealed. I really did. I read them. I tried to think about them. I practiced. I tried to talk about them. And I just felt better. It was great.

[64:15]

The story will come up in the context of something like that. We're actually producing a novel that was studied in Kansas three years later. And we're coming down to a really current thing. And I think, too, sometimes you can have read it, read a story. Let's not even talk about the commentary and all that. It's just the story. And then something will happen, and you'll think, oh, that's like that. I get that now. But I don't think that they're going to be finally solvable, because they hopefully will keep the layers of this opening getting deeper and deeper. And as your life gets, you know, you bring more of yourself to it. But, you know, it's important to feel like they're for you, for you, for your nourishment.

[65:37]

It's not like it has to be for you, it doesn't have to be for all of you. There's some nourishment in there. And maybe for you, it'll be a really interesting story that you'll be telling in 10 years when you teach a class. Or you'll say, I did follow-up for 10 years, and then one day, it just opened. The story isn't written yet. Should we evaluate the class since we've just come to the end? Let's just read the poem. Did somebody not get a chance to read? Who can read? Jed? Actually, why don't you read the case, woman's comment, and the verse? Yeah, the case 19. Just read the whole thing for us. Joe Joe asked Jon Snow what is the value of not knowing yourself more than anyone in the game.

[67:05]

Joe Joe asked, should I try to correct myself? Jon Snow said, if you try to correct yourself, you betray yourself. Joe Joe and Tom Conroe were down. Tom said, we're down, and Tom said, we're going. And I'm going, [...] and Tom said, we're going. And I'm going After this he was left with a love letter from his father. In these words, Joe Jordan had decided to leave America. A question for Joe Jordan. Joe Jordan lost more time than he could show up in this country alone. He had no other option but to go and stay in this country. Women's Day.

[68:21]

So, we still have five minutes to evaluate the class. Please don't be too hard on me. You did a good job of getting us lightly engaged. You're going to go out there and realize it for yourselves, right? I thought we were going to fall over and have a good stride. It was nice to end early and sort of know that things were going to take a long time. Right, because we've had a lot of material. We've brought up a lot of materials in the three classes. I think it was a pretty good time to go out there.

[69:49]

So you're going to do some verses? Write some verses? Do you remember what it's about? I say we aren't like these guys. Ross says we are. What do you say? Well, the thing is we're not going to be able to read and discuss our verses. I think what I'll do is if you give them to me and people are up for this, I'll put together a little book And I'll give everybody a copy. And you can do, if you don't want to do the, you know, you can do the graffiti. You can just write the story out, put some graffiti in the line between. You can do it however you want. Try to make them at least as good as Alex's comments if you can. Well, thank you.

[70:48]

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