I'll be yo-yo. [...] Yo-yo. Once upon a time, there was a ten year old named Sammy. Now, I don't know if Sammy was a boy or a girl, because Sammy's sometimes a boy's name and sometimes a girl's name, right?

[01:02]

Yeah. And Sammy had a parent, and the parent's name was Robin. And I don't know if Robin was Sammy's dad or mom, because Robin can also be a boy's name or a girl's name, right? Lots of people have lots of names. But Sammy played an instrument, kind of like this one, only much better than I do. And Sammy's parent, Robin, was a magician. And Robin had a magic wand. And with the magic wand, Robin would go around and go, zoop, zoop, and make things disappear. Now, the problem is Robin was kind of a practical joker. And so, go around through the town and Sammy would be playing the bandoneon or the ukulele or whatever instrument Sammy played. And someone would be sawing on some wood, right? They were going, zz-ah, zz-ah, zz-ah. And Robin would come along and go, zoop, zoop.

[02:05]

And the wood would disappear. Or someone would be sitting down to a nice big meal. What's your favorite meal? Pizza? Spaghetti. Big plate of spaghetti. And Sammy would come along playing the bandoneon or whatever. And Robin would come along and go, zoop, zoop. And what do you think happened? The spaghetti disappeared. Disappeared. That's right. Well, people got kind of mad at Sammy and Robin for doing that. And so they ostracized them, which means they made them live on the edge of town. Nobody was going to talk with them. Well, in this town, they used to tell stories. They used to tell stories about this big giant named Abiyoyo. Nobody believed the stories, but they told them anyway. But one day, one day when the sun

[03:08]

rose red in the sky. There came Abiyoyo, a huge giant. And Abiyoyo was bigger than a barn, bigger than a house even. Bigger than a skyscraper? I don't know about bigger than a skyscraper. But Abiyoya was big enough that he'd kind of clomp along and he'd go through the fields and clomp and the whole crop would just be flat and clomp and clomp and he'd reach down and he'd pick up a cow and go chomp. He'd eat the whole cow because Abiyoya was not a vegetarian. And the men saw Abiyoyo coming and they called, oh, it's Abiyoyo, run, run, run for your lives, it's Abiyoyo. And the women saw Abiyoyo coming and they went, run, run, run for your lives, it's Abiyoyo. And the kids saw Abiyoyo coming and they went, run, run, run for your lives, it's Abiyoyo. Well, meanwhile, since Sammy and Robin were on the edge of town because they were ostracized, they saw Abiyoyo.

[04:21]

And Robin said to Sammy, oh, Sammy, if I could only get Abiyoyo to lie down, I could use my wand and I could make Abiyoyo disappear. That's right. And Sammy thought for a moment and went, OK, come with me. And Sammy grabbed the instrument and grabbed Robin and they ran off. And there was Abiyoyo coming towards them. And Abiyoyo had long, oily, snarly hair because he never brushed it. And he had yellow teeth because he never brushed his teeth or flossed. And he had long fingernails because he never cut them. And he had stinking feet because he never washed them. And here he comes, and he's looming over Sammy and Robin, and he's just about to swoop down and grab them and eat them up, when all of a sudden, Sammy starts to play.

[05:22]

And he goes... Fortunately, he played better than I, or else Abiyoyo would probably have eaten him up. Well, Abiyoyo had never heard a song with his name in it before. And so Abiyoyo got this big grin, and he started to sing, Abiyoyo, Abiyoyo. And Sammy started to play faster, Abiyoyo, Abiyoyo. And Abiyoyo started to dance. Abiyoyo, Abiyoyo. And Sammy played faster. Abiyoyo, Abiyoyo, Abiyoyo, Abiyoyo. And Abiyoyo got so tired and dizzy that he fell down. And Robin went zoop, zoop. And Abiyoyo disappeared. And everybody started, ah, that's a good question.

[06:27]

Where did he go? Maybe we'll come back to that. He disappeared. He could be anywhere, couldn't he? But the whole town was really, really happy. And so they gathered around and they said, bring your musical instrument and bring your magic wand and come back and live with us. And everybody sang the song. So you can sing too, okay? Sing, a-bi-o-yo, [...] yo-yo-yo, yo-yo-yo, a-bi-o-yo, yo-yo-yo, yo-yo-yo. Now, why am I telling you this story here in this endo? Anyone want to make a guess? What's your guess? That's a good guess.

[07:28]

You want to make a guess? Oh, that's a really good idea. Wait till you really know people before you judge them. In fact, maybe it's better not to judge them at all. John, can you take this? But let me ask, do any of you have a nickname? You've got a nickname. What's your regular name? Mira. And what's your nickname? Well, sometimes I like to be called Meaty. Meaty? Okay. And you've got a... My name is Leo. That's my regular name. And my nickname is Lighting. Is what? Lighting. Lighting? Lighting. Oh. Well, you know, when I was your age, I had a nickname. My last name's Rosenbaum, and people used to call me Rosie.

[08:29]

And I hated it. I just hated it. But you know the name of that person up there? What's the person's name? Buddha. There's another name. Sometimes called Prince Sid. Yeah. Siddhartha. sometimes called the Tathagata. But let me ask you, if you're called Mindy, or you're called Mitha, are you still the same person? You are? And if Buddha's called the Tathagata, or the Buddha, or Siddhartha, he's still the same person? Now Abiyoyo got caught by his name. He was so in love with his own name that he fell in love with it and he danced around and danced around and that's why Robin was able to make him disappear. So if someone calls you a name, are you going to get upset?

[09:33]

No. It's just a name, isn't it? Yeah, but sometimes you get mad. Sometimes you get mad. But next time somebody calls you a name that you don't like, you know what you can say to them? Just say, Abiyoyo. They won't know what you're talking about. It'll confuse them a whole lot. So don't get caught by names. Okay? Okay. Thank you. Well, good morning, everyone. Well don't listen to my words, listen to what I mean.

[11:18]

We say the meanings not in the words but it's in the inquiring impulse and since all of you are here you're all expressing the Names are not the thing itself. And in fact, sometimes in Buddhism we talk about how no thing exists as a thing. But names sometimes make us think that things exist. And that's cause of a lot of suffering and problems. The koan that Sojin Roshi has given me for this practice period is basically Tozan's story. Many of you know the Song of the Jewel Mirror Samadhi where it goes, there's a famous line in it, oh I am not it, it actually is me.

[12:27]

And I thought I'd tell you a little bit more of the story that surrounds that and kind of go into that. Because it has to do with how we practice with names and things and who we are. So I'm going to read little sections from the Denko Roku, the transmission of light, which tells basically the enlightenment stories of many of our ancestors. And also some of the material comes from the record of Tung Shan. Tung Shan is Tozan, Tozan Ryokai Daisho, who's one of our ancestors. And there's an enormous amount in this in this chapter, but I'm just going to take bits and pieces. When Tozan was still young, he read the Heart Sutra with a teacher, and when he reached the place where it said, no eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind, he suddenly felt his face with his hand and he said, well, wait a second, I've got eyes and ears and nose and tongue and the rest.

[13:40]

Why does the scripture say that they do not exist? Have any of you wondered about that? And his teacher was amazed, and realizing that he was unusual, he said, well, I'm not your teacher, and sent him to Zen master Lingmo on Mount Wuxie. Well, there's a lot to be said just from that little piece, but you know, when we chant the sutras, and for those of you not familiar with it, it starts off, this is the sort of the heart of the Prajnaparamita Heart Sutra, starts off, Avalokiteshvara, when practicing deeply the Prajnaparamita, perceived that all five skandhas in their own being, and was saved from all suffering. And at a certain point it says, therefore in emptiness, no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind. But we have to practice with body and mind. Well, when you chant the sutras, it's good to just chant them, but it's good sometimes to delve into them.

[14:49]

They're good koans. And actually, if you wanted to start with the Heart Sutra, the first four words are pretty good. Avalokiteshvara, the incarnation of compassion. Well, who's Avalokiteshvara, really? When? Practicing. When? When was Avalokiteshvara practicing? If you think it was back then, you're going to miss something. If you think it's right now, people will look at you and say, what are you talking about? Avalokiteshvara, when practicing, what is practicing? We're in practice period. How do we practice? How do I practice deeply? What's deep practice? You can do this with almost any word, and there was one point where I was studying the Heart Sutra, and whenever we chanted, no eyes, no ears, no nose, I would use Joshu's Mu for the no.

[15:55]

So I'd go, no, eyes, oh, there's eyes, no, oh, there's nose, no, tongue, oh, there's tongue, arising. Kind of interesting, Joshu's Mu is no, It's like Manjushri's sword, it just cuts through delusion, just wakes you up, clears you so that you can see what's your real nose, what's your real eye. Dogen says the eyes are not sense faculties, but they're actually soapberry beads. Soapberry beads used to be used in Buddhist rosaries. It's kind of interesting, counting soapberry beads using your eyes. to as a rosary. Well, Tozan goes and studies for a bit. And he got stuck on the issue of insentient beings preaching the Dharma.

[16:58]

And he visited Yunyan and he asked, Yunyan is Ungan Dojo. Who can hear the non-sentient preach the Dharma? And they have a dialogue, and at a certain point, Tozan goes, oh! And he goes, wonderful, wonderful. The preaching of the Dharma by the non-sentient is inconceivable. If you try to hear it with your ears, it is hard to understand. But when you listen with your mind's eye, then you know it. We're back in the issue of what are ears and what are eyes and how do you listen with your mind's eye? It's a good thing to do. It's a good way to do Zazen. All of this is Zazen instruction, basically. So it implies, okay, Tozan's enlightened, but one of the reasons I like this story is he kind of gets enlightened and he goes, well, yeah, but I've still got some doubts.

[18:02]

So he wanders around and at a certain point he asks Yunyan again, well, After you die, if someone asks me, what was the master's truth? What did you teach? What should I say? And Yunyan paused and then said, just this, just this. Or sometimes it's translated, just this one is. Sojin was talking about this in our Thursday night class a week or two ago. Well, that sounds pretty good, but Tozan still had his doubts. And then the kind of crux of the story happened when he was later crossing a stream and he saw his reflection. And as a result, he was greatly awakened to this prior teaching. And he said in a verse, avoid seeking him in someone else, or you will be far apart from the self.

[19:07]

Solitary now am I and independent, sometimes translated, I now go on alone, but I meet him everywhere. He surely is me. He now is surely me, but I am not him. Understanding it in this way, you will directly be one with thusness." Sojin gave me another translation of this, which I really liked, that Suzuki Roshi gave. If I can find it here. Here we are. Suzuki Roshi translates it as, don't try to see the objective world You, which is given as an object to see, is quite different from you, yourself. I'm going my own way, and I meet myself, which includes everything I meet.

[20:15]

I'm not something which I can see as an object. When you understand self, which includes everything, you have your true way. I really like that translation a lot. So we're back to, I am not it, it actually is me. Sure. Do not try to see the objective world. You, which is given as an object to see, is quite different from you yourself. I am going my own way, and I meet myself, which includes everything I need. I'm not something which I can see as an object. When you understand self, which includes everything, you have your own true way. Now, there's just so much in this, but I'd like to point out that Tozan's enlightenment experience came when he saw a reflection of himself in his dream, and I think that's not a coincidence.

[21:22]

And the whole issue of reflection is actually very important in Buddhism. You all know Dogen's, well, most of you know Dogen's Moon in a Dew Drop, where he talks about the moon is reflected even in a single dew drop, no matter how small. Well, that's one kind of reflection. Let me give you another one. There's a story about the nun, Jiyono. who really had troubles, which I can identify with. And she practiced and practiced, felt she didn't attain the fruits of meditation for a long time. And then one moonlit night, she was carrying water in an old pail bound with bamboo. And the bamboo broke and the bottom fell out of the pail. And at the moment, at that moment, Shiono was set free and she wrote a poem. This way and that way, I tried to save the old pail, hoping the weak bamboos would never break.

[22:28]

At last, the bottom fell out. No more water in the pail. No more moon in the water. Well, what's reflection? What's reality? I'd like to suggest that a good way of studying this is like Tozan studying it in the body. Tozan started with, I've got a nose and it's saying no nose, I've got an eye, no eye. But we tend to treat our bodies as objects and if you treat your body as an object it makes it rather easier to treat other people as objects, not to mention things, what we call things as objects. But it's all about relationships And relationships, we fall into this objectification really easily. We think, oh, it's a relationship between two objects. But the objects themselves are relationships. So everything's moving.

[23:29]

I think it's also relevant that Tozan saw his reflection in a stream. And I don't know if the stream was moving or not, but most streams move. And so his reflection was moving too. And your reflection is always moving. Suzuki Roshi says in the book, Not Always So, when we study Buddhism, it's necessary to have strong conviction and to study not only with our mind, but also with our body. And he says something rather interesting. He says, if you come to the lecture even though you are sleepy and unable to listen to it, You're attending the lecture will bring you some experience of enlightenment. It will be enlightenment itself. Isn't that interesting? So if you're sleepy, everyone should fall asleep now. And if you don't want to fall asleep, you can wake up instead. Well, what is this body that we study the way with?

[24:36]

I'll read something from Dogen's Body and Mind Study of the Way. He says, to study the way with the body means to study the way with your own body. It's the study of the way using this lump of red flesh. The body comes forth from the study of the way. Everything which comes forth from the study of the way is the true human body. I have some more quotes from Dogen, but I think I'm going to read them for just a little bit. I very much like the way Dogen puts it, but I also want to quote one of our women ancestors, because they can be perhaps a little less philosophical and a little bit more direct sometimes. Miao Zhang taught with her nudity. And she would point and say, this is the place where all Buddhas enter this world.

[25:39]

There's nothing terribly abstract about that. And Yoshihime, who's nicknamed Devil Girl, forced an Engakuji monk's head between her legs to answer the gate entry koan, what is the source of all Buddhas who enter here? We are embodied beings, but what, who is this body that brings us forth and we bring forth? How do you study Buddhism and study the self through studying the body? You know, we're talking about faith in the Thursday night classes, and let me ask you, Do you have faith in your bodies? It's the body of Buddha. Do you trust the body?

[26:41]

This body which will get sick, and ail, and have pain, and have joy, and pleasure, and die, and be born again and again? Well, I'd like to encourage you during this practice period to explore the body thoroughly. Sojin, in one of the first talks of practice period, gave us some possible practice choices. He talked about you can practice with opinionatedness, with how much you take over versus how much you hold back or retreat, with fault-finding, with judging, inability to say yes or no, with forgiveness, repentance. Whatever you choose to practice with, do that through the body, not just through your thought. I guarantee you, you will find that if you're opinionated, there'll be a bodily experience of opinionatedness. If you hold back, your body will be in one posture, which is different from if you push yourself forward.

[27:50]

In Zazen, we focus a lot on posture. And it's not because somebody's mother or father a long time ago said, sit up straight, have good posture. It's because this harmonizes body and mind. As part of Tozan's story, at a certain point, he says to Ungan, what should I do when I want to meet my original self? And Ungan says, well, ask the interpreter or ask the messenger. And Tozan said, well, I'm asking right now. And Yunyun asked, well, what's he telling you? Your body is always reflecting your mind. your mind is always reflecting your body and everything around you.

[28:53]

So it's a good thing to do is ask your body, well, what are you telling me right now? And I want to give some literally pointers on how to do this. In meditation instruction, we talk about having the tongue touch the upper palate I learned from my Qigong teacher that according to traditional Chinese medicine, when you do this, it connects two very important acupuncture meridians and lets the energy flow. But more important, it's a good focus which lets you know if your mind's wandering, your tongue usually starts moving around. When your tongue starts moving around, you make these little motions with your tongue. Whenever you're thinking, there are these tiny little motions in your tongue. And one way of helping you focus and clear your thinking, not suppress it, but clear it, hold the tongue very, very lightly.

[29:58]

Usually if you're straining, you're pushing with the tongue. Well, you know, people sometimes say, well, how can I practice outside the zendo? It's just fine in the zendo. But then I leave and I forget everything. Well, practice with your tongue. My Qigong teacher says, you know, you should have your tongue in that position all the time, except when you're eating or speaking or kissing. But actually this has been a practice of mine for some years now. It's really helpful. Just come back to where your tongue is. Another thing that you can practice with is there's an acupuncture point at the top of your head. If you go up your ears to where the fontanelle is, where the bones knit together, it's called the byway point. There's another acupuncture point in between the anus and the genitalia called the Wuyin. This is a yang point. This is a yin point. Just align those. I noticed today while we were doing Qinhin, a lot of people had their heads like this.

[31:05]

Now, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's not, it just doesn't have the same kind of centeredness or harmony as when you have those aligned. And usually, if you're opinionated or if you're holding back or moving forward or tense, that's out of whack somewhere. Another way you can practice is with your center, with your hara. Sometimes I like to imagine that there's a line going through the baiwei and the wien, so it's going straight up and down. And there's another one going through the navel right opposite the navel on the spine there's a point called the Ming Men life skate, which in traditional Chinese tradition, this is a very important point for meditation, the Ming Men point. Keeping that relaxed and open and feeling the space, feeling the space between that point and that point.

[32:13]

So this line another line going horizontally and you've got a three-dimensional balance, all of which you want to keep very loose and relaxed around that point and move from that point when you bow. That's a good practice. Where do you bow from? Are you bowing from here? Are you bowing from here? Are you bowing from here? I notice sometimes if I'm bowing Like so, my heels come up a little bit. They don't need to. If your body's really relaxed and planted on the ground, and you bow from your center, it's a whole different feeling. I also wanted to mention about bowing something Sojin said years ago, which is kind of a fun way of practicing. I don't remember who you heard it from.

[33:15]

You were quoting someone. But another teacher said, you know, when you bow on the mat, your hands are like this, and Buddha's standing on your hands. And you lift him up, and then you drop him. No Buddha. And a lot of us, we're not careful about how our hands are. So just to be really aware, OK, holding Buddha. Or there's a point in the palm of your hand. You can try massaging a little. And another point in the flesh in between the thumb and first finger. And another point about two inches up in between the tendons above the wrist on either side. And when you are holding your mudra, are those points all open? Can you feel the whole arm relax? One of the very helpful hints Sochin gave me in sitting zazen was let the shoulders, not the shoulders, let the elbows relax.

[34:20]

You know, a lot of times our shoulders get tense. It's very hard if your shoulder is tense to relax the shoulder directly. Instead, relax the elbow, or relax the wrist, or relax the palm of the hand, or relax the Ming Men point and see what happens. This is exploring thoroughly. And one of the things that you find is every sensation that you have is as much about the mind as it is the body. You can't separate the two of them. Now there is a danger here. And the danger of working with the body is that it can reinforce a sense of self as an object rather than stretching it. Um, I think when you really, uh, just sit with a particular focus and you see how things move, it, it doesn't do that.

[35:31]

But if you get into this thing of trying to do it just right, then you are fighting yourself. Your mind might be fighting body. I did this for a long time. I was learning to meditate and for several years I just trembled and I would sweat and it was very painful. You don't need to do it that way or maybe you do need to do it that way depending on your particular personality or style. I needed to. But it goes beyond tension or relaxation. It's appreciation, I'd say, of whatever the experience is at that moment. But if it becomes a sense of I am going to sit this way and reinforcing yourself, then you get into

[36:36]

suffering. And, you know, the Second Noble Truth says the roots of suffering are desire, inordinate desire, but that inordinate desire comes from a sense of me as a separate thing. And This is where Tozan, seeing his reflection, I think helps us. You know, when Tozan looks at his reflection, which is the real Tozan, if you say, oh, well, it's the person on the bridge, you're missing an important dimension. If you say, oh, well, it's the person in the water, you'll get very wet. we were talking in one of the teas about Seijo, who's the, is that the correct name? Who's the real Seijo? But whichever it is, they're both, you're looking for the reality of the true self.

[37:47]

And as soon as you start trying to improve yourself, you create this separate self, which is a thing. Which is why Suzuki Roshi, when he's talking about this episode with Tozan, he actually starts off his talk, wherever I go I meet myself, in Not Always So, by saying, you know, your culture is based on ideas of self-improvement, but improvement is based on comparative value. which is also the basis of our society and our economy, but Buddhists don't hold so strongly to the idea of improvement. As long as you're trying to improve yourself, you have a core idea of self, which is wrong practice. Basically, I am not it. It is actually me is about dropping yourself. letting go.

[38:52]

After Sojin gave me this koan, I spent a month or two where my practice was. Anything which I encountered, I would go, okay, that's me. I'm not it, it is actually me. So I see you all here, okay. That's me. Bell's me. Person I'm having a fight with, that's me. The chopsticks I just dropped, that's me. And we have this tendency, we wanna go, that's not me. Or, okay, that's me, I like that, I like that, I like, oh no, not that. Uh-uh, sorry, doesn't work that way. And that comes from attachment, and that's where the suffering comes in. Believe it or not from, I found this poem from, believe it or not, Tennyson, who is not one of my favorite poets, But he says, I am a part of all that I have met and yet all experience is an arch where through gleams that untraveled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move.

[40:09]

Um, know so this water so much of us is water I was once in the mountains walking along the stream for several hours and just practicing with the sound of the stream and at a certain point it was clear you know here is another form of water walking along by the stream I mean It's hard to be really too egotistical when you think of yourself as basically a big bag of water. And if you don't acknowledge yourself as a big bag of water and you don't pee often enough, you're going to get really sick. Pay attention to how much water you drink and void.

[41:20]

So sensation Oh, I think I will indulge with just one or two quick quotes and then take questions. A long time ago when I wrote this book, I did write a little snippet of a poem that I kind of like, wanted to share with you. I say, poets mapping pathways of the heart, confess the lines by which they draw their charts, catch the cartographers. The fact is the most apt articulation can never capture quite in art the wonder of a plain mundane sensation. Zen master Yuan Wu said, birth is undivided activity. Death is undivided activity. Filling up the great empty sky, straightforward mind is always bits and pieces.

[42:23]

Dogen goes on to say, with birth and death as its head and tail, the entire world of the 10 directions, the true human body freely turns the body and flaps the brain. When turning the body and flapping the brain, it's the size of a penny. It's inside a particle of dust. It's the vast earth. It's a sheer 18,000 foot cliff. To examine this is the study of the way. The true human body is the bones and marrow of the realm beyond consciousness and unconsciousness. Just raising this up is the study of the way. So let's see how we raise this up together, maybe with some questions. Elizabeth.

[43:26]

I'm wondering, in this practice period, one of the things that I'm really working on is showing up for Zazen. And it's something that I still don't I still can't quite shake. Sometimes I'm the penny. Sometimes I'm Mount Sumer. The vastness and smallness. I'm not always sure what this dude's about. Or this dude. You know, I... What is the volume? They're loose change. Is this my body? Of course. Does he feel the same way? No, of course not. Why? Does your hand feel the same as your foot? Yes.

[44:45]

Ah, that's a subject for a whole other talk. But let me just read the beginning of it. There's quite a bit about it, but let me read this much. So Tozan visits Ungan and says, who can hear the non-Sentient preach the Dharma? And Ungan answers, the non-Sentient can hear the non-Sentient preach the Dharma. And Tozan asks, do you hear it? And Ungan replies, oh, if I could hear it, you would not be able to hear me preach the Dharma. At which point, Tozan says, well, in that case, Liangche does not hear you preach the Dharma. And Ungan says, if you still don't hear me preach the Dharma, how much less can you hear the nonsenshin preach the Dharma? At which point, Tozan wakes up. As he goes around and asks people about this, some people say, oh yeah, I can hear it.

[45:49]

And some people say, no. I prefer to say the non-sentient does not preach the Dharma. It sings it constantly. Oh, and I think one hint here is don't be so sure about what's sentient and what's not sentient. Well, with that, I think this actually fairly often. There are those who say that there is no such thing as non-sentience. They certainly say that There have been, I can't remember who, but there have been scientists who have registered various responses in minerals under that.

[46:50]

Yeah. You know, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Frankly, with this body, I've got quite enough to take care of. I just think it's important that our practice is making sure we don't become or treat ourselves or others as non-sentient, which it's easy to do. When you became ill in the mountains a few years back, did you have some awareness of what you were talking about this morning, faith in Buddha's body or some experience of that that you could say something about? That's a really good question.

[47:53]

At the time, My main, I experienced various things. And the first thing I experienced was, for those of you who don't know, I was hiking at a high altitude in the Himalayas and I had a stroke. And I had to be left alone for a little while while my friend got some help. And I couldn't walk and I was sitting there and part of me went, This could be it. I could die. And I looked around at these vast mountains. And I mean, this was very important to me. I went, come on. And the mountains just kind of looked back and went. And that was a very profound experience.

[48:56]

It took me a long time to metabolize that. But at that moment, what happened was, I said, well, okay, if I'm going to die, what do I do now? And I thought, okay, I'm going to sit zazen. And then I went, you know, I don't want to sit zazen. I found myself sitting, doing a metta meditation, a loving kindness meditation for everyone I knew. And it actually bothered me a bit that I was doing that and not Zazen. And I asked Sojin about it when I came back. And he said, well, that's a natural thing to do at the time. And he's right. So at the time, I think I did experience the body as Buddha and the world's body, but I didn't realize I was experiencing it.

[49:57]

And that came later. But it does, you know, on Elizabeth's question, when you see everybody as, you know, that's me, that's part of my body, it sure makes a difference in how you treat them. or at least for me, it makes it much easier to want to treat them with respect and compassion and kindness. When you said you realized it later, do you feel like it is important to realize it? It helps. Why does it help? It helps dissolve suffering. than the realization itself, because that's a dual thing.

[51:11]

You know, you're sitting there and say, ah, that's what it means, that's what I mean, therefore, I'm okay now. Whereas what you describe, you know, and then being curious about it seems, you know, very important. Well, let's be careful with the word realization, because I think, and actually, I've talked a little bit about body, I want to talk next time about mind. Because I think we get tripped up by the idea of mind as somehow something psychological with thoughts and consciousness. Realizing means making it real. It doesn't necessarily mean having insight or going, ooh, ooh, ooh. It's embodying, breathing it, manifesting. One question is, don't you realize it when you don't know you realize it?

[52:14]

I mean, whatever you mean by real is what we mean by realizing. If you've experienced it, why, I mean, as I say, there's curiosity, so you want to maybe contract it, but I don't see that it's necessarily, it's not happening because you don't have it in another sphere. You're correct, it's happening. I do want to say, don't try to prolong it. That's the easiest way for it to slip away. But what you're raising really is the question of, well, if we're enlightened already, why are we sitting Zazen and why are we doing stuff? I forget who said this, but the quote I like is, it's not that there's no practice and no realization, it's just that they cannot be defiled. And so, you know, there's talk of the illustration for awakening, or Choson seeing his reflection in the water, and that's, you know, what that was, was Choson's experience, and that was his, his opening line.

[53:59]

But we talk a lot about awakening, or realization, and these problems, or examples, or practice, but sometimes I think, well, so what? I mean, it's a big kind of results-oriented, and I think, well, you said it, I'm guessing a sense of it's okay.

[55:16]

Things are well. Even though I don't always think they are, but now I'm happy they are. The first, I think this answer, I hope this answers your question, the first words of Tozan's poem are wonderful, wonderful, sometimes marvelous, marvelous. It's nice to live life with a sense of the marvelous. When I was in high school, a friend read a poem by Ferlinghetti that really turned something on inside me. And I don't remember too much of the poem, but the line which kept being repeated over and over again is, and I am continually seeking a new rebirth of wonder. That seems like good direction for practice.

[56:18]

One more, two questions, and then I think we're out of time. Oh, it's a constantly evolving balance. When your hands come together in Gassho, is the left hand touching the right hand or is the right hand touching the left? As we're talking, here we are. Nancy? It's been great to hear you. So I've been, particularly during the questioning part, making myself be one of the other people.

[57:23]

We are all me. I can do this when I get, what gets in the way is impatience or something. So time has to kind of, my concept of time has to fly out the window, it seems. And then I come back to, You know, when we hit the block, I'm trying to remember, during that ceremony where we say, get with it, or the time, what is that? Right. Yeah. No, it's not that one. Don't waste time. Do not waste your days and nights and do not spend your days and nights in vain. Yeah. Yeah. Well, how can, you know, anyway, Sue Moon, she actually passed out a little paper saying, don't forget, you're going to die.

[58:33]

I have it on my refrigerator. Well, how can we... With this in mind, it seems that I have to sacrifice that to have a timeless, to be able to really feel that compassion toward myself and others. Well, it's a very important question. Let me answer it from two perspectives. from one perspective in terms of dealing with impatience, and I used to have a lot of problems with that. It really helps to work with the body, and when you're feeling impatient, just make sure your weight's evenly distributed on the feet if you're standing, on your seat if you're sitting, and settle in where you are. and breathe, and of course the impatience kind of fights that, and you go, no, no, no, no.

[59:42]

And you have to be, you have to befriend your impatience. Very important. So you can't, if you fight it, it's, and you'll just get more impatient. So kind of embrace it, but don't let it run you. But from a different perspective, you said you need to throw out your concepts of time. Throw out all your concepts. And Dogen says, understand that the self is time. Very profound statement. And we know space is time. That's true according to physics. And our bodies are comprised of mass and space. It's very interesting to think of one's body and mind as time in some particular form.

[60:44]

But time is not measured. Being time is not measured by clocks. And it's neither short nor long. If time's not short nor long, How can you be impatient? I don't know if that helps.

[61:04]

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