I vow to chase the truth of that darkness' words. Hello? Hello? Is this... It's as far up as it goes. You're too tall, man. Okay. Let's keep going. Bill King just died a few days ago, so I keep thinking about Sportscaster now.

[01:01]

Good morning, everybody. This is the first day of Aspects of Practice. This is the first day of Aspects of Practice. Okay. And, you know, this is, we basically have two practice periods during the year, and this is the second one. This is more, say, a little more casual than the spring practice period. And this is a little bit more collaborative in the sense that

[02:12]

several practice leaders collaborate to kind of present things over the course of this month. And we take turns giving talks and teaching classes. We don't have a head student like we do during the practice period and Sojin is not teaching the class as he does during the practice period. And we don't have head student tea like we do during the practice period, although we do have Friday teas, which practice leaders will be at over the course of this month. You know, the practice period is modeled after In the days of Buddha, when the monks were wandering forest monks, they would get together during the rainy season and all practice together in a more intensive way while it was raining outside.

[03:22]

Monsoons. And then when the weather got better, they would all disperse and go on their ways and resume their wandering practice or more practicing in small groups. So in a way, you know, I think that our practice period is a little like that in a sense that, you know, during the week, you know, everybody here comes at different times. Some people come in the morning. Some people come in the afternoon. Some residents are here almost every day. Other people come maybe once every two or three weeks. And we generally have a kind of a pattern to that, not always, but most people have a kind of a pattern of when they come. And we all come at different times, so we see different people maybe a lot, and then other people not very much. So during a practice period, we have a chance to see each other more, and particularly on a day like this. And as you know, the theme of this Aspects of Practice period is the book that Ed Brown edited of Suzuki Roshi's lectures, Not Always So.

[04:42]

And so each of the people who will be giving talks during this practice period has taken one chapter from that book, except Raoul is going to do another, subject, but basically we'll be using that book as our theme, and I imagine the class also will be using this book. So the chapter, it's also interesting in my way of looking at it, that if you, I know some of the chapters that people have picked, including my own, and the chapters that people pick tend to reflect their personalities. So it's kind of interesting. So I want to just read you, I'm not gonna read you the whole chapter, but I'll just read you, and actually these chapters are all very short, so it wouldn't be too painful, even if I did.

[05:45]

But this is just a paragraph. And this chapter is called Direct Experience of Reality. So this is just one paragraph from that chapter. Direct experience will come when you are completely one with your activity, when you have no idea of self. This could be when you are sitting, but it could also be when your way-seeking mind is strong enough to forget your selfish desires. When you believe you have some problem, it means your practice is not good enough. When your practice is good enough, whatever you see, whatever you do, that is a direct experience of reality. This point should be remembered. Usually without knowing this point, we are involved in judgments.

[06:46]

So we say, this is right, this is wrong, this is perfect, and that is not perfect. That seems ridiculous when we are doing real practice. I'll just read that one more time. Direct experience will come when you are completely one with your activity, when you have no idea of self. This could be when you are sitting, but it could also be whenever your way-seeking mind is strong enough to forget your selfish desires. When you believe you have some problem, it means your practice is not good enough. When your practice is good enough, whatever you see, whatever you do, that is the direct experience of reality. This point should be remembered. Usually without knowing this point, we are involved in judgments. So we say, this is right, this is wrong, this is perfect, and that is not perfect.

[07:48]

That seems ridiculous when we are doing real practice. In Zen Mind Beginner's Mind, there's also a chapter on the same subject called Experience, Not Philosophy. He says different things in that chapter, but it's pretty similar. And I just want to read you one really brief paragraph from that chapter, from Zen Mind Beginner's Mind. When we resume our original nature and incessantly make our effort from this base, we will appreciate the result of our effort moment after moment, day after day, year after year. This is how we should appreciate our life. Those who are attached only to the result of their effort will not have any chance to appreciate it because the result will never come. But if moment by moment your effort arises from its pure origin, all you do will be good, and you will be satisfied with whatever you do."

[09:02]

So, in this chapter, the point that he, the fundamental point that he's first trying to make is that We tend to see things from ideational or intellectual, on an intellectual basis. And all of our likes and dislikes influence the way we see things and all our ideas about how things are influence the way we see things. Generally, we communicate to each other based on certain common assumptions and conventional reality, based on our ideas and the way we interpret things intellectually. And he says that that's necessary, that we have to engage in this.

[10:14]

But it's also necessary to just see things directly, to let go of all of our ideas about what things are and just be open. So on one hand we have the mind that is based on the past, all of our past experience, that reasons, that is influenced by others, that has all this background and all of our likes and our dislikes and all of our history. And then there's also a mind which is just present right now, which doesn't hold on to all of that. And both these minds, both of these ways of experiencing are necessary. In zazen we have a chance to experience the direct side, the side which just can let go of all of our thinking and all of our ideas.

[11:27]

And I think that's why people are attracted, I think, that's why people, at least Americans, are attracted to Zen practice. It's because it gives us a chance to just very simply let go of our complicated, incessantly judging mind and just experience each moment with an open mind. This is so refreshing and invigorating. Not so easy to do, but it's possible. And I think that's, you know, without that kind of practice, I don't think that if we just came and heard lectures on Zen, if we just chanted and read books, it wouldn't be, it wouldn't work.

[12:31]

It wouldn't be Zen practice. He talks about having, he said, when your practice is good enough. It's interesting, I've heard tape recordings of his voice, Suzuki Roshi's voice. He's very soft-spoken and gentle in the way that he spoke. And what you don't get when you when you read something that people have edited that he said, is how, as I remember from hearing his voice on tape, is that his voice just kind of comes out like a

[13:36]

like a stream. It just sort of like, that was my image, it sort of like rolls down the hill in a stream. It just sort of, you know, you don't get that in, when you read it, it sounds like he's, you know, giving a very firm, strong lecture. But when I heard him speak, at least on tape, it didn't sound like that. And if you actually take these words, I think you have to be careful. For one thing is they've been edited, but He's making a point in this talk, and if you really take it literally, what he's saying, it'd be very discouraging, if you think about it. He's saying that when you have no idea of self, then you don't see things as a problem. So does that mean that we have to just completely let go of any idea of ourself, just completely let go of our ego, in order to more or less transcend what feels problematic to us?

[14:49]

Because that's what it sounds like he's saying. You know, whenever your way-seeking mind is strong enough to forget your selfish desires, I don't know if I ever totally forget my selfish desires. Maybe you do. And obviously we have moments where we forget our selfish desires. But if I reflect on my state of mind, generally speaking, I would say that selfish desires are always present, more or less. So I wouldn't take what he's saying too absolutely. What I would say is that, and what he's getting at in terms of how we feel about our problems, is that it's a process, it's a gradual process of

[16:10]

letting go of our clinging. It doesn't have to be an absolute process. It's a gradual process of letting go of our clinging. And as we begin to look at our minds, study our minds, we begin to see the transparency, the transparency of our ego, transparency of our likes and dislikes. And even though we're still caught by them, even though we still are attached to our idea of ourself, we can begin, it becomes, we can begin to see the delusion in it. Even though we're still caught in the delusion, we can begin to sense and feel the delusion at the same time as we're deluded, at the same time as we're fearful, angry, aggressive, sad, depressed, or exhilarated, or

[17:28]

manic, whatever we are, that we can begin to sense that this is ephemeral, that this is transparent, this isn't fixed, and that we can begin to feel the craziness in ourselves. So while we're crazy, we can also have some awareness of the craziness. This is our saving grace. It's not that we need to be totally sane before we can have some insight into what's real, but gradually we can have some insight into what's real. And, you know, as we begin to realize that our way of seeing things is how biased our usual way of seeing things is and how conditioned it is, then our problems, you know, begin to see that what we consider to be our problems are not so solid as we thought.

[19:02]

So, you know, when our problems seem really solid, then it feels like we have a real problem, and this problem is getting in the way. It's getting in the way of our life. We have a life that we want to lead, and our problem is getting in the way of it. But... As we begin to see how a certain crazy aspect in our mind, or a certain diluted aspect, we begin to have a feel for that, then we begin to see that what we consider to be these big problems are actually not so heavy as we thought. And as a matter of fact, how could we possibly inquire into the nature of our suffering and the nature of our problems without using our problems to study this?

[20:30]

How could we possibly understand the nature of our suffering and our problematic mind, the mind that thinks that it has problems, How could we possibly understand that without being in the midst of the problems? So, you know, the teachers in Sojourner are always talking about delusion within enlightenment and enlightenment within delusion. I never really understand this because because I don't really understand the word enlightenment. But I think what's important when we talk about delusion within enlightenment is that it's not like ... The way we wake up is through our problems, is through studying and understanding our problems, not analyzing necessarily, but actually being in the midst of, but being in the midst of with an open mind.

[21:54]

And that's all zazen is, is being in the midst of our life with an open mind. There's a chapter in the Shobo Genzo called Inmo. Inmo means it. It's like, It. It's the it which can't be explained. It's reality which is ineffable. It's reality which we can't describe. It's basically non-dualistic reality which can't be described. It's a crude version of the word inmo. So Dogen writes a chapter about this. And at the beginning of the chapter, he uses an analogy.

[23:03]

And this analogy is, well, let me, the background in this analogy is that Vasubandhu, one of the ancestors, great ancestor, was a Hinayana practitioner. and his older brother Asanga was a Mahayana practitioner. And Vasubandhu was always criticizing Asanga for his Mahayana practice and criticizing the Mahayana in general, feeling that it was just totally in error. So Asanga, the older brother, once pretended to be sick and asked Vasubandhu to come visit him and just make his sickness feel better by his visit. So Vasubandhu came to visit and Asanga asked him to read a Mahayana text to him, setting him up.

[24:11]

So Vasubandhu starts to read this Mahayana text to his older brother who's feigning illness. And as he's reading it, he gets it. He says, this is wonderful stuff. I just didn't realize how wonderful the Mahayana really was. And so he says, oh, you know, I wish I could cut my tongue out. I've been disparaging the Mahayana for so long and I see how wonderful it is. I, you know, I feel so badly. And so Asanga says, well, the very tongue that you have disparaged the Mahayana with, now you can use to preach the Mahayana to others and to share this teaching with others. And it's like the ground, when you fall down on the ground, you use the ground to get up again. So Dogen uses this analogy in Inmo.

[25:17]

The ground that we fall down on is the ground that we get back up on again. So you could, the way he's, you know, as Dogans want, it's very nuanced and subtle and difficult to follow all the little threads that he takes. But his basic point is that when we fall down in our delusion and fall down in our problems and our suffering, those very problems and suffering and delusions are what we need to work with to stand back up again and to be upright. So when we really see that, when we really begin to accept that this is true, then it's not like we're trying to push all of our problems over someplace else so that we'll be pure and clean.

[26:23]

Because the actual ground that we need to stand up on is our problems, is that suffering. And when we look at it like that, then when we have some problem, or some suffering, or we feel badly, it does feel badly. There is still pain, there is still suffering. But rather than see it as a hindrance, as a hindrance to our life, or an interruption to our life as the way we want our life to be, instead it's, this is just our life. and we have respect for it. So direct experience of reality, direct experience is actually not trying to filter everything out, push everything to one side so that we can have what we want.

[27:43]

But direct experience is, you know, whatever we've got, that's what we've got now. And that's where we start. And when we sit, we just stew in that situation. Because this is where you are right now. You're sitting here. You're going to be sitting for the rest of the day. You're going to be sitting here hours. Actually, this is an abbreviated day. It's not even that difficult. But you're going to be here for hours. And you're just going to sit here. And whatever comes into our minds or our bodies, that's what's happening. You know, Zen has a kind of reputation for people who don't practice it.

[28:48]

Amongst people who practice it, I think, we begin to see the simplicity and the ordinariness of the practice. But Zen has a reputation for people who don't practice it but do more reading about it as being sort of abrupt and dramatic and sort of quirky and enigmatic. And actually there's some truth in all of that. And I think that a lot of that, the ambiance that people get out of what Zen practice is, is that very direct, is pointing at or being this really direct experience, trying to show us that, you know, we can experience things directly. rather than this circuitous route that we always take through all of our thinking and our conditioning and our likes and dislikes. There's a, excuse me, there's a case in the Muman Khan

[30:00]

Joshu's bowls, really simple. This case goes, the monk comes to the monastery and meets Joshu and says, please, great teacher, give me your teaching. And Joshu says, have you had breakfast yet? The monk says, yes, I have. And then Joshu says, well, then wash your bowls. And then the, I don't remember whether it said the monk had a realization or not. He did. He did? Yes. Okay, he did. Wouldn't have really worked if he hadn't, would it? The monk didn't give it. So you know, when you read the commentaries about this case, they basically, the ones that I've read, basically agree that you can look at this case in two different ways.

[31:11]

And these are just commentaries, so all this is intellectual, not so direct. But these two different ways are, the first way is, This is like symbolical. Joshu is actually saying, have you had an enlightenment experience yet? Have you woken up? Have you had a realization experience yet? And the monk, understanding that's what he's getting at, says, yes, I have. And then Joshu says, well, then let go of it. So don't hold on. If you've had some great, wonderful, transcendent experience or great sense of whatever, Let go of it. Don't hang on to it. Whatever you think that you may have accomplished or whatever great feelings you may have had, don't hang on to them. Just keep moving into the present. In various times in Zen history, and today as well, we make a big deal about people who are very wise, who are very accomplished, and Rinzai Zen makes a big deal about enlightenment experiences and so forth.

[32:34]

So Joshu is saying, you know, whatever Whatever experience you've had in the past, just let go of it. Don't hold on to something no matter how insightful or wise it may feel. It's the holding on which is the problem. The second way of understanding this con, or this case, and there could be a third, fourth, and fifth, but the second way that the commentators more or less agree on, is that it's just that the student is asking for, tell me what's the main point of practice, or what's your main teaching? And Joshu points him to what he's actually doing, which is, just had breakfast, okay, now wash your bowls.

[33:41]

There is no special meaning, there's no special point. The special point, the special meaning is what you're actually doing. It's not having some special angle of wisdom that you're looking at everything from. What you're actually doing, to really do what you're doing, well he doesn't say so, but the implication is with an open mind, just as is, is the teaching. So these are two different versions. They're saying more or less the same thing, but the first version is more intellectual, more, it's more of an idea. And the second way is more like, here we are, there's the dining room, here are you, there's the sink, it's like just right here and right now. But they both have to do with direct experience rather than some special teaching.

[34:55]

That's all I need to say for now. Would somebody like to say something? Elizabeth? I felt like you helped open up a gateway for my appreciation of Suzuki Roshi when you talked about the tenor of the words, if you took a literal interpretation of those words. You know, I don't know when you were last Sashimi Director, but I had one time you were for a day, and you gave that to us, too. You gave something very calm and flowing. You just said, at the beginning of the day, keep it simple, but it was so gentle. So I appreciate that. Yesterday, Paul Haller was also critiquing this phrase of selfish desire and self-centeredness.

[36:20]

He really felt that that was pejorative. And he took it away from being something special and extreme of so-called self-centered desire, so-called insanity, so-called craziness, and basically just made it very common. Basically he's just saying this is about our human conditions. And if you can have these direct experiences, you might be able to actually have intimacy. So I was thinking about it as the monks during the monsoon. They didn't go off to their own separate caves, did they? They did come together. So I was thinking, what was the reason for that? Because it's intimacy, huh? Oh, I see what you're saying. I think that's the other side.

[37:22]

There's also another place, it may actually be in this chapter, where he says the most important thing is to practice with other people. So for Suzuki Roshi, practicing with other people is really important. So, but to me it just seems like a natural balance. On one hand you go off and have maybe a hermit-like practice or just with a few people together and then gather and have a larger gathering. There's just two sides of a practice. It's like when we're alone or with other people. I really think, you know, it's interesting how in sitting practice some people have a really difficult time sitting at home alone. for various reasons. It's distracting, they're not inspired enough, whatever it is. And then other people have a really hard time sitting in the zendo with other people around them.

[38:29]

And it's easier for them to sit at home alone. And I've always thought that doing both was really good. To be able to enjoy and do both was really good. And if you're really one-sided, you might look at why it is that you can only do one side but not the other side. Thank you, Ron. In your story about Hmm, because when I read Dogen... That's his struggle.

[39:48]

That's his struggle. You feel like there's something there that I don't understand. And that he does. And it's elusive. So that's why I'm cautious about thinking that I understand that analogy in some complete way. Okay. Okay. Right. Yeah. You know these two approaches to the koan that you mentioned?

[40:52]

I wanted to say that they're both direct experience. One is direct experience of form and the other one is the experience of form as emptiness. So the feeling that we have of the awareness of Sazen as we carry it into the activities and we experience the activities The whole... I don't understand exactly what you're getting at with the emptiness and form.

[42:05]

Emptiness and form are the same thing, right? Emptiness is a quality of form. So I'm not quite sure what you... It's like the breakfast in the washing the boat. Okay, so... See, emptiness doesn't mean voidness. So I'm not quite sure why you're saying the emptiness in one but not the other. I'm not sure why. What is there about, you're saying that the... They're both direct experience. That's true. Having breakfast is direct experience. And letting go of letting go of what you're attached to is also direct experience. Those are the two versions. Right. But there's a sense of the ordinary activity as form, and there's a sense of the ordinary activity as emo, as ultimate reality.

[43:18]

Both the same, but they're not one, not two. Well, I can't keep up with you. You have to slow down. If you're going back to the case, you have to talk about the case. Yes. Right. So, washing the bowls is washing the bowls, and it's Zazen. Right. Right. Those are the two sides, which are not two. Oh, I see. Yeah. Well, that's his point. I mean, that's really his deepest point is that what you're doing is not... Ultimate wisdom is what you're doing.

[44:26]

Ultimate wisdom is not something removed from what you're doing. But the emptiness and the form part of it, I don't, I can't quite keep up with you about. But maybe we shouldn't belabor it. Maybe we shouldn't belabor it. Linda. So if ultimate wisdom is what you're doing, what are you doing right now? Talking. And sometimes we miss that. And we're confused about what we're doing. Okay, ask me that again. What are you doing? I'm trying my best to express what I feel to be true, but have difficulty communicating.

[45:38]

Boo. Boo? Clock on the wall says it's time to stop. Okay, thank you.

[45:54]

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