I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's words. Good morning. So as it happens, I want to talk about love. While we were waiting for the batteries, I had said, that I saw Mel's orioke practice as an expression of love for this practice. And I've been thinking about love, well, forever I suppose, but maybe the last six, eight months or so, off and on, I have some resistance to it because it always seems so sappy and we don't usually talk about love so much. We may talk about compassion or generosity or whatever, but to talk about love, I start thinking about little Hallmark cards with bluebirds and

[01:11]

or romantic clinging love like that Beatles song, you know, you better hide your head in the sand, little girl, run for your life, little girl, catch you with another man, that's the end, you know. Oh, okay. Speak for yourself. I know. I'm going to stop. It came up again for me recently when Edward Said died. I don't know if you know who he was. He was one of my heroes. He was a Palestinian born in Jerusalem. and his family lost their property. He spent his early years in Egypt, and then he was sent to boarding school here in the United States, and he went to Princeton, and I guess he got his PhD at Harvard, and he taught at Columbia, and he taught comparative literature and English.

[02:28]

And he was involved after the 67 war, he got involved in kind of Palestinian politics. And then at some point more recently, he broke with Arafat and he was very critical of Arafat and his corruption and lack of leadership. And he was critical in severe terms of suicide bombers. He thought that the way was nonviolent action. He was a very eloquent speaker. He also worked with the Israeli musician, composer Daniel Barenboim, to found a music institute, West East Divan, for Israeli and Palestinian kids. And one of his points that he would make is that all we ever hear about is the bombing, and we tend not to hear about these young musicians, one of whom, more than one maybe, these child prodigies that play all over the world.

[03:37]

We never hear about that. He wrote about Comrade. He wrote about something he called Orientalism, about the way we tend to romanticize the East and or denigrate it and don't see very clearly. When he talked to kind of workshops or gatherings. There was a Barenboim wrote of one with Israeli and Arab and German kids. And that Said spoke to them and made them see each other's suffering. And he spoke of the Holocaust. I guess he was talking about an earlier divan that was in Germany in Weimar and how Weimar was Goethe's town, but also very close to Buchenwald.

[04:38]

And he made them understand the suffering there and the Arab kids see that they needed to go and see that and know that for themselves. And he did this without The German kids feeling guilt-tripped and the Israelis and the Arabs without making it an us-them situation for any of them. And one of the appreciations of him that I heard was on KPFA, David Barsamian, spoke about getting to know Saeed by interviewing him a number of times, I think. And he said that the last time that he interviewed him, Saeed was pretty sick. He died of leukemia. He battled it for about 12 years, I think. He died this last September.

[05:41]

And Saeed was pretty sick, but he kind of gathered himself for this interview and was very gracious. And at the end, he walked Barsamayon to the door and Barsamayon put his arm around Saïd's shoulder and told him that he loved him. And he said, Saïd said, yes, indeed, that's what it's all about, isn't it? And it is, it is. I think that's the core of our practice. A tough kind of love, not a hearty love, not a sappy love. That somehow we have to find our way to loving ourselves and one another. Isn't that what a bodhisattva's about?

[06:46]

That insane vow we get. I vow to save all beings. Sounds like a good idea. So it's finding some way to complete generosity to a non-clinging kind of love. Much as I love the Beatles. Not a Beatles kind of love. Except I may be, what is it, let it be? A love beyond any idea of love. A love without anything to say, maybe. I've been thinking about the story that Mel told on that first, the first lecture about Shigui and Fuyuan.

[07:46]

Shigui kept saying, well, what about that place beyond duality? The moment of going beyond duality and The first time, Feiyan said, it's the sound of the mallet hitting the han. And that didn't do it. So the next time he asked, Feiyan said, playing with words. And then he woke up. Then he woke up. And Feiyan's response was, and there's nothing to say. So that place of love, love in the zendo, there's nothing to say. Just being it, doing it, practicing it. And it does have to start with oneself.

[08:46]

It's also thinking about here's the bowl, right, and here's the wiping cloth, and it comes from me outward. It comes from the inside out, from finding my heart to be able to see your heart. It comes from the zendo out into the world. That's our practice. And words, you know, what is it? Katagiri's book, what is it? You have to say something, so you say something, but it isn't about that. I was talking about this, forgive us, to Baika yesterday. I was trying to kind of gather my thoughts about this, and I forced her to listen actually.

[09:49]

And if I weren't going to have to quote her, I would lie to you and say she didn't say anything, but she did. Anyway, I was talking about this in terms of zazen, and she said, yes, but it's practice. You know, it isn't simply the formal zazen of, you know, sit down and shut up and pay attention and stare at a wall. It's how do you take it out there? How do you express it? So if I say zazen, I don't only mean that formal zazen. I mean zazen of our lives. So that's context. I want to share a poem with you. It's a Jane Hirshfield poem from her book, Lives of the Heart, and it's called Love Amid Owl Cries. You know what, she lives in Muir Beach and practices sometimes at any rate at Green Gulch and has.

[11:02]

And if you ever lived at Green Gulch or practiced there, if you were there early in the morning or sometimes late at night and it's foggy and dark, the trees are dripping and you're walking to the Zendo, if you're walking from any distance, sometimes you hear the owls. in the fog and the dripping trees. And it's a lovely, mysterious, it's a haunting sound, calling sound. So I think one of the things this is about is the Green Gulch Zendo. But I think too, owls are birds of prey. So you could think of them as representing the difficult world out there. And how do you practice love in the world? Where there are, I don't know, are owls raptors?

[12:07]

Okay, so there are raptors. Birds of prey. Where we're sometimes birds of prey ourselves. How do we find the love? So, it is not the altar that matters, not that, nor the shape that is found there. The ghostly ideas come and go, one after another, But the place endures the fact that there is a door. Love amid the owl cries. It is not the altar that matters, not that, nor the shape that's found there.

[13:10]

The ghostly ideas come and go one after another, But the place endures the fact that there is a door. So it isn't the forms, and it isn't the statue of the Buddha or Manjushri. or Christ, if this were a church, or Guan Yin, or whatever, Ganesh. It isn't the altar at all, even if there were a stone on it. It's not the ideas.

[14:13]

I like that ghostly ideas. Because so often we're haunted by our ideas, we're possessed by our ideas. Could we see them as ghostly, as simply apparitions? Not so easy. But it's interesting, a useful description of zazen. Ghostly ideas coming and going, one after another. And it isn't even our ideas of practice. I remember some time ago, somebody said something to Mel about some Rinzai place and said, well, they face out. And Mel said, yeah, well, you know, 10 years ago, they used to face in, so. You know, it's, I like facing the wall. It's my idea of beauty, one of them.

[15:15]

But is that the most important thing? Is which way the chopsticks go the most important thing? No. The place endures. What is it that endures? I don't know that she's speaking so much about the walls. Though there is that, certainly about Green Gulch or any practice place. People come and go, ideas come and go, leaders come and go. But hopefully, the core of the practice continues, that place continues. Whether she had that in mind, I don't know. I mean, when you think of Zen Center and what, you know, the sea changes back and forth there and at Green Gulch in particular, that place has endured.

[16:23]

We've been lucky. But I think it's a lot deeper than that. What is it, what is it that endures? What is this door, the fact that there's a door? I like that, the enduring and fact together. But this is all ghostly, right? It's not about something solid. So what endures? Sangha endures. We endure practicing together, finding a way to harmonize, you know, it's like rocks in a tumbler, smoothing each other out, finding some way to open our hearts to one another, to ourselves and then one another in that process.

[17:38]

Those are actually not separate. Zazen endures. The question, I think, the question what is it that's at the core of our practice that is way-seeking mind itself, what is it? And this is it, which is another question. It's also right at the middle of our practice. This is it, is a question. And that's the door that I know. Constantly asking, what's going on here? What is this? And being willing to sit still for the answer, which may or may not come.

[18:45]

And this willingness to ask and to sit still for whatever response may or may not come, that's an expression of great love. That's an expression of practice. It's a generous, generous thing to do. Sitting still with the breath in the body and the question, no expectation, no idea, nothing to say. Just listening, and from that quiet willingness comes birdsong.

[20:37]

comes from that quiet willingness comes a fountain of generosity without any idea of generosity. Comes a fountain of love without any idea of love. And I think as Jane is saying in her poem that the home of it, the source of it is Azen. Is this Zendo? set in the world. However you want to think of owl cries, they do represent the world. Could be the world of nature or the world of bombs in Iraq. Or AIDS in Africa. But from this quiet, from this sashin,

[21:52]

This is the source. This is the refreshment, if you will, for our practice. It is not the altar that matters, not that. nor the shape that is found there. The ghostly ideas come and go one after another, but the place endures. The fact that there is a door. Do you have anything that comes up for you in response to this or as a result of it? I'm interested in your idea that you love yourself.

[23:07]

It seems a trifle difficult to do without self-clinging, or what loves what. So I wonder if you could describe your understanding of it. A trifle difficult, yes. A trifle difficult without clinging. It's a long time ago. My first practice period at Tassajara, Mel taught the Heart Sutra. And one of the things he talked about was having an empty heart. And I worked a sashin in the kitchen during that practice period. I had some little difficulty with somebody, and you know how in a Sashin it becomes big, and I thought the other person had been rude to me.

[24:10]

However, my thing, I had been rude in response, and I spent a significant part of the Sashin working my way to having a empty heart to be able to simply apologize to this person, you know, without clinging, without wanting something back, wanting an apology back or whatever. To be able to just say, I'm sorry I snapped at you, you know, period. And to be able to say that wholeheartedly. And I got there. but it felt like it cost a lot, and that's the clinging. And I remember in Shosan, I asked Mel about this, and I said something about, you know, it felt like it cost a lot. Does it get any easier? And he said, don't be stingy. So it's making that effort

[25:17]

and finding that generosity that we have within ourselves to just be ourselves. And I think of generosity because I'm I really love and appreciate Dogen's fascicle on the four methods of guidance of a bodhisattva. And the first one is generosity or giving. And one of the things he says in there more than once is, give yourself to yourself and then give others to others. But I think that practice, that's our practices. loving ourselves enough, respecting ourselves enough to really deeply look and deeply own, but without self-hatred or without self-castigation, because you can't look.

[26:21]

If seeing some mistake just confirms your belief that you're an evil person, then you can't look at your mistakes. Well, I understand that self-castigation is unwholesome. That's a form of self-claiming, just like self-love seems to me to be another way of self-claiming, so I just wondered if... I mean, I hear what you're saying about being able to look and regard, but it would seem like pointing your own affection back to yourself is a little sappy. Well, I don't think so. I think it's really necessary, but it's, you know, sappy as a near enemy, maybe, or something. But I think, and I think it's really necessary. You know, one of the Japanese, I guess it's Japanese, I don't know if it's Chinese, but, you know, this thing that you say in,

[27:23]

I don't know if it's greeting or it's in leaving someone, you say, please treasure yourself, is one of the translations. Please treasure yourself. We often say please take good care of yourself, but as I understand it, the real translation is please treasure yourself. So, I think that has to be part of it, and I think it's deeply true, and it's not a, It's not a sappy thing. And it's not about, you know, pride or whatever. Yvonne Rand once said to me something, I said, I was something I was happy with that I had done. It might've been a work or something, I don't remember. And I said, I felt bad because I was proud of it or I was something and, or it felt like pride. And she said, you know, it's okay to take pleasure in it. So somewhere in there is the distinction.

[28:28]

There's a difference between taking pride in something and taking pleasure in it. Yeah? That's what you've got to start with, and after you've done that for a while, you can move on to more advanced practice. Thanks. Yes, Ken. There's maybe a good difference is the difference between line and cake. Yeah, thank you.

[29:32]

Yes? When you started, Mary, I can't remember the exact word that this was. You were talking about a savvy love, but a heart, was that the word? Hearty. A hearty love. What comes to mind for me with that is that it's not just about taking pleasure in or seeing the wonderful qualities that I have, but it's a willingness to hold everything. to have kindness and acceptance and to see clearly all of who I am and the kind of feeling of love that that is. It helps to fuse the ego. Mm-hmm. You know what you remind me, too? A couple things. One is, you know, when people in 12-step programs do the fourth step, you make a moral inventory of oneself, and people have these lists that go on, pages of their faults. But when it comes to doing their good qualities, it's very difficult. It's just classic in a 12-step program for a person to get hung up on the fourth step of saying what's good about themselves.

[30:41]

And another thing that you reminded me of was that, you know, there's a way in which, I mean, loving ourselves, we're included. You know, it's not like there's the universe and then there's me over here. There's I over here, pardon me, mom. Anyway, but there's, I'm included, so I have to include this one if I'm going to do this. And it's so easy to forget. I did an exercise once, I was talking about the seventh precept, and I had these people do, to sit there and think of something, it's about non-separation on a zazen level, I think. the seventh precept, not praising self at the expense of others, so not separating. So think of, go around the room and just think about, you know, think about something nice, a good quality of every other person in the room. Fine, do that, okay. Then, think about a good quality about yourself. And that was difficult for people.

[31:42]

So that's a separation, you know. Yes, John. in a way, because going through my mind is, when I'm thinking about other people, loving other people, there isn't this sort of intimate attachment and clinging on to it in a way. It's like I clearly recognize that those are other people, not self, and there's almost an ease with which it doesn't get stuck in So building myself up in some way or grasping onto something myself. But with self-love, what it stirs up in me is that whole attachment. This seminar that we've been doing on the 30 verses on transformation at the base, we're about to do Manas, which is sometimes defined as self-love.

[33:11]

And we all say, oh, I have self-esteem issues. I don't really, or I don't like myself, or I'm insecure and all that. That's true. for virtually all of us, maybe, that's true. But below that, there's this stream where you do love yourself. And I first, I kind of denied it when I first heard somebody lecturing about, I guess it was Reb lecturing about it when he taught the 30 verses and he started, he was saying, there is this place where you just think you're right. and where you love yourself. And my first response was, no, [...] no. I hate myself. I think I'm a bad person. And when I thought about it later, I thought that my response was kind of strong. And then as I kept thinking about it, actually, he was lecturing about the seventh precept is what he was lecturing about.

[34:13]

But it doesn't matter. At any rate, that stream is there. And that is a problem, or it can be a problem. You know, that Mel says sometimes, you know, it's not that we need the ego, kind of the messenger, helps organize things or whatever, but it doesn't need to be right here in the middle. kind of over to the side, you know. So it's, that's what Sazen is about, don't you think? I mean, it's like just paying attention and you keep seeing it and seeing it more and more. And that's why, I mean, I started with Sangha. That's what we help each other with and support each other to do. Yeah, Sue. Thank you for your talk, Mary.

[35:17]

It's been a profound experience for me. I can see the self-love, the clingy, the I'm first, me, me, me. And I know when I have an experience of heart opening, it's as if, exactly what you say, as if Susie steps outside. and it's inclusive, instantly inclusive. Yeah, that's a good description. There was a special international Sashina, Tassahara Tokubetsu Sashina, and there were a lot of Japanese teachers, and I remember one of them, a lot of people gave way-seeking mind talks. these very senior people. One of the Japanese teachers said that his teacher said to take this, you know, the head, take this and set it down over here.

[36:20]

And another one said that his teacher said, maybe the same guy, I don't remember, he said that his teacher said, the trouble is this fellow. and hit himself like a dope slap on the head. Yeah, so this is the last one. It helps me to remember that Dogen at one point summarized the life that's quoted in Suzuki Roshi's book, Trishaku Jishaku, which means one mistake after another, or one continuous mistake. And then he comments that the point of it all is to continue to practice no matter what, accepting yourself as yourself with all your mistakes. That's right. And it has to be okay, you know. And I think about it, you know, again in, I'm a grateful member of Al-Anon, that's why I talk about 12-step practice sometimes, but at any rate, you know, we say that we want to go from I am a mistake to I made a mistake.

[37:23]

And that's, you know, that's in a way what we're talking about, you know. Can it just, can it be okay? I hope it is okay.

[37:37]

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