Some announcements and various kinds of business. Judy Smith wanted me to announce that she's not here. I think that she's rehearsing with the Axis Dance Troupe, which is performing Saturday and Sunday. And there's a flyer on the porch. I guess it's an all, is it an East Bay dance festival? Yeah, it's a really wonderful series and I highly recommend that you go see Axis. It's quite extraordinary to see her zooming around the stage and just to see this really beautiful and strong dancing that they do. I think it's at the, what is it, the Oakland Museum? Laney College. Laney College. Anyway, Saturday and Sunday. The flyer on the porch. Let's see. I also wanted to announce tomorrow evening, you may have seen, there's also a flyer out there, there's an interfaith service for peace, which I'm taking part in, and a couple other Buddhist organizations, and then various other denominations, at the Berkeley Buddhist Temple, which is on Channing Way, just east of Shattuck.

[01:26]

And it's basically going to be a kind of worship service for peace in general. And they'll be singing. I think there'll be some choral groups. Actually, John might know better than me. Well, I think the one choral group, the guy's voice will not be singing, I believe. And the Sikh group will be singing. with this size and with this size. So anyway, I invite you to come down to that. That's at 7.30. I think there's... In the morning? In the evening. And there's a postcard on the door. On the wall out there. You know, we do have a competing event. Oh, there's a competing event. Right. They're really good. Really? Which movie is it? Ikiru. Oh, Ikiru.

[02:27]

This is very hard. Ikiru is actually one of my favorite movies in the world. But I'm going to go to this thing because I'm supposed to participate there. I'd also like to thank Judy and Andrea and Rebecca who've been facilitating the small groups and also the various people, I guess Bill and Dolly and I'm not sure who else have stepped in to facilitate when they were away. So thank you. I thought this evening we could have a a mindfulness bell. People know about that practice? Is everyone generally familiar with that? Every so often, on a sort of fixed schedule, maybe every 15 minutes or so, Ross will ring the bell. And you can take the space of whatever is going on. I mean, he doesn't have to stop in mid-sentence, but he can certainly stop us in mid-thought.

[03:31]

And take that take the space of three breaths to just recover your breath and recover your center, and then continue on with what was going on. And you'll find it has a kind of transformative quality. And since we're not going to be breaking down into small groups, I think this would be a nice way to just take a breath every so often. So maybe Ross will take care of that. Take care of what? The Mifflin spell. Right. Remember? So about every 15 minutes. In the syllabus to the class, I mentioned that I talked about possibly doing a repentance ceremony, which I was thinking about doing tomorrow, but obviously not going to do it tomorrow because we have a movie and we have this interfaith service.

[04:32]

And thinking about it, I felt that people in the small groups have been so forthcoming in speaking of their lives and matters related to the precepts that are coming up, that I wasn't sure that we needed a repentance ceremony. It seems like there's been plenty of repentance and sharing in this group. And the sessions where we share in here have been, they felt very very strong and very emotionally direct. And it just seemed, for me, I'm about to, I'm going to leave for Asia on Tuesday, and it just seemed like it was going to be one more thing to crowd in. So I felt like I'm not going to crowd in one more thing. So I hope no one is too disappointed. Catch you next month.

[05:37]

Yeah, right. We can do it again at some point. Are there any other announcements or immediate questions? What did you have in mind for the repentance ceremony? Or what was done at the Bodhisattva? No, actually a little different. What I had in mind was something like what I saw done and what I've Well, what I've heard about the Dharma RAIN Center in Portland does, and they, I don't know where they got their practice, but what they do is they pass around, they recite the precepts, and take refuges and they pass around an incense bowl from one person to the next and each person can speak to a precept that they feel they haven't kept for the period in the month before and the way they do it there also

[06:47]

Also, each person speaks to a precept that they feel they have kept. So there's a kind of balancing. And it seemed like that might be a nice thing to do at some point. I know when I was at the Vermont Zen Center this winter, we did a repentance ceremony on Columbus Day, and we did, people spoke to what they felt to be their karma in relation to indigenous peoples. And it was quite powerful, a very powerful ceremony. It was the same thing. We took the precepts and the refuges and then passed this around. And people spoke. Some people spoke briefly. No one was required to speak. Some people just bowed and passed it. Anyway, I was thinking of something along those lines. And I think it might be interesting to do that at some point.

[07:51]

It could be incorporated into a sasheen. Yeah, into a sasheen or into a practice period or something. We can think about that. But right now I'm trying to draw some lines about what I need to do, not add things. So my apologies for that. Any other questions or announcements? Thank you for teaching the class. It's not over yet. Oh, I forgot the evaluation forms. Well, we'll get them. What? No, no. Yeah. Yeah, here's a key. I think they're on my desk. I'd like to talk a little about the 10th grade precept, but I think we can talk about it, and I'd like us to discuss it, and from there take time to discuss any questions or anything that may come up in terms of the precepts in general.

[09:05]

Some of you will be having jukai, lay ordination, in the middle of March. And I've been thinking about that quite a bit lately. And I was reminded of what I spoke to in the beginning, the first class, the statement that's on your Keche Miyaku, your lineage paper, which says, it was revealed and affirmed to the teacher Myozen, who was Dogen's Rinzai lineage transmitter, it was revealed and affirmed to the teacher Myozen that the precept vein of the Bodhisattva is the single cause of the Zen gate. that the precept vein of the bodhisattvas is a single cause of the Zen gate. That is something that we don't talk about very much, and I was reading this lecture, I highly recommend if you find it, another lecture by by Reb Anderson in this issue of the Window, which is really a superb lecture.

[10:28]

And what he says, he speaks to what his practice has been and how he came to realize the practice of the precepts to an extent had been something that was missing from his practice. And he realized it particularly when he had Dharma transmission and they really spent more time working on the precepts. And he says, one of the characteristics, and I feel the beauty of Zen, especially as taught by Dogen Zenji, is that it is so strictly the pure, true, and ultimate teaching. But there's a provisional teaching also. And if people have never been exposed to the provisional teaching, there's possibility of misunderstanding the ultimate, true teaching. So this provisional teaching is what we might see as right and wrong. And that it exists in a kind of dialectic with the ultimate teaching, which is beyond any concept of right and wrong.

[11:40]

And I think this is some of what we're we're talking about as we've been approaching the precepts. It's hard to talk about the Absolute, but when we're talking about the provisional, when we're talking about the Theravada level of precepts, which we were talking about, or the Mahayana level of precepts of saving all beings, we also have to keep in mind the Buddha mind aspect, the Absolute, and vice versa. He also says in his lecture, he points out in Theravadan practice, there are three elements that are traditionally pointed out as sort of pillars of this Theravadan practice. One is Dhana, which is generosity or giving. And then there's Sila, which is the precepts. And those two are very much related. And the third is Bhavana, which is practice.

[12:44]

And a lot of people, when we come to Zen practice, we think that the bhavana is it. But in fact, the bhavana is just one leg of a tripod without which it won't stand. I think this is akin to saying that the Bodhisattva precepts are the cause or the single cause, the point of entry to the Zen gate. So I'd just like to bring us back to the beginning as we finish up here. I've also been thinking To go back to this precept of not abusing the three treasures, I've been thinking about how I've been abusing the three treasures this week.

[13:53]

One of the things I talked about last time was how we use our time in the zendo. I had a morning this morning where I just could not stop thinking. I couldn't stop thinking about all the things that I needed to do and all the things that were pressuring me at work. And while I did need to have some compassion for myself, that was also, in a sense, wasting my time. And in another sense, I could look at it in an extended way as wasting your time sitting there. sitting there concentrating on self and what I perceived to be the problems and difficulties of my life that are so urgent that I couldn't sit there and let them fall away for the period of this very peaceful hour early in the morning.

[15:09]

I can't forgive myself for that. I don't think it's the heaviest thing in the world. But I also think that it's a shame to spend one's time that way. And I was thinking a lot about... I didn't get, until I was thinking about that this afternoon, what... I read you something from Yasutani Roshi that I liked a lot, but I didn't quite get it. This made me think about it. Yasutani Roshi said, whenever someone thinks I am just an ordinary person, he or she has reviled the three treasures. There are no ordinary people, there are only Buddhas. Yet the dream that one is an ordinary person becomes a nightmare from which one cannot awake. And that's very much the way it was for me this morning.

[16:16]

And I think that when we take refuge in Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha, then we're living the life of a Buddha. And if we kind of let ourself if we let ourselves sort of indulge the flaws or shortcomings that we have, then that's a way of abusing the three treasures. Which is not to say we're not going to have flaws, and we're going to have them, and we have to be compassionate with them. But I think not allowing oneself to see one's, not just to see one's Buddhahood, but actually to experience it. To let go of concerns that might be petty or small or personal.

[17:19]

That's a way of cheating yourself and also a way of cheating all beings. And, you know, I also pointed out the other side, thinking of oneself as a Buddha is arrogant and also breaks that precept. But I suspect that we more, most of us, more err on the other side. We might be arrogant about some things. We might think we know more than we know. we allow ourselves more frequently to be caught in this kind of cycle of uh... of thinking and uh... so i thought i would just kind of make that small confession uh... to start off discussion and then uh... inquire as to how people felt they have kept or not kept this precept

[18:23]

how you've kept or not kept this precept for the previous week, and let it go from there and see where the discussion goes. I thought a bunch this week about what Yosotano said. One of the things that's really apparent to me throughout the week is how seldom I think of others as Buddhists. There's just, again and again, I'd just be aware of things coming up, and there's just kind of really striking in there. And, you know, to get into it, there's a particular person at work I had a bunch of issues with, and I just sort of think of myself, okay, this person is a Buddha. There's a thing kind of almost like recoils, no, no way. What do you think of as Buddhists?

[19:49]

One way I think about this is what you were talking about before, which is either I vow not to abuse the three treasures or I take refuge in Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. And the way I find myself doing that is just giving myself over to it or having a lot of faith Having faith when I find myself doubting. Having faith that all these things are Dharma gates. If I find myself in trouble, the first thing I want to do is get out of it. Get away from it, rather than experiencing it and learning something.

[21:18]

from my experience. Anyway, so giving myself over to that experience rather than trying to get away from it. That's how I dealt with these three treasures. The other side of it is how I find I waste a lot of time. after being in Tosahara and reciting Fufunso Sengi, I just felt, when I came back, felt this tremendous urgency to practice diligently and to, there's that one line that says, the pivotal opportunity of human form to just, this is my big chance to do this. and how practice and the precepts work together in a deeper way than before we got involved.

[23:09]

I think you do have to do some sort of practice, and what we do is sitting practice. in order to have more than just an intellectual understanding of the precepts. And on the other side, you need the precepts to to inform your sitting practice, so they seem very complementary. Do you think you could have a sitting practice without precepts? I could, but it would be fleshless. It would be hollow. It would lack substance. You can have art without soul.

[24:23]

I find it increasingly uncomfortable the more I sit to do things that just aren't right. And I think I think that there's an organic basis to the precepts. That's what I'm beginning to think. I don't know if you could have a sitting practice that was going anywhere and not have some sense of your right relationship in the world and a sense of discordance and grief when you were out of that sync with everything else. That's how I experience it. I find it not as easy as it used to be to let myself get away with stuff.

[25:27]

Especially in the realm of speech, unkindnesses are almost physically uncomfortable where they used to be. I'm fun and clever and amusing. Well, what happened to the fun? I think it was a substitute, an unhealthy substitute for what I was really looking for. Having a laugh at someone else's expense creates a certain amount of endorphins, but to have to sit down afterwards and sit there with yourself and realize what you've done and feel that discomfort is not worth it. To me, anyway. I too come from a big family where everybody's very witty and very sarcastic.

[26:35]

And I just can't stand it anymore. It's not fun. It's not pleasant. It's very hurtful. And I liked what you said last week about What I wrote in my notes was, living my truth without copying others is not defaming the three treasures. It's the opposite. That's kind of what I'm getting at. I think that there's an organic basis to this. As we come to know who we really are and be who we really are, the precepts just arise. Even if I'd never heard about him, this discomfort with sarcastic or hurtful talk seems to come out of the sitting practice, not out of being told that it's a bad thing to do. like Kathy was saying.

[28:25]

Yeah, Suzuki Roshi certainly says that. There's a part of me that really resists trying to follow the precepts, you know, just because of that. I try to have faith that the sitting practice and studying the practice, and see what happens, you know, see how it arises. But then, on the other hand, I find that having some knowledge, you know, or memory of what the precepts are, are good kind of reference points for just knowing when I stray at times. It's hard to know what, you know, it's hard to know or to separate, tease out, you know, what is, what's your, I mean, sitting practice versus, you know, precepts, kind of an intellectual versus an experiential sometimes.

[29:53]

I don't know, it kind of gets all mixed up for me. What do you mean? I don't know. It's just, it's hard to like, uh, say, well, well, I'm not sure what I mean, I guess. I'm being very clear. We have to stop. One of the things that's been kind of important for me in terms of this and also just, you know, practice is the harmony. That in sitting, in practice, one is like a harmony that one develops, whether it's just the harmony through just the breathing and and it moves out into one's relationships. And a lot of the things that have been kind of important for me in thinking about these precepts, all of them, is just kind of this sense of harmony.

[31:03]

And when the harmony is broken, when there's kind of an element of breaking a precept, saying something, it hurts. There's a kind of like, ooh, I did that, I said that. And it's a disharmony. I think it's interesting, as I was saying in one of the earlier classes, in the Theravadan tradition, when they recite the precepts twice a month, you can't, when the monks recite the precepts, actually if you've broken a precept and haven't repented it or accounted for it in some way, you actually can't sit in the circle of monks. they know that you have broken that harmony or not, I think the underlying feeling is that the harmony, you know, if you enter that circle unrepentant, then the harmony will be lacking.

[32:11]

And that's really powerful, I think. They sit down in a circle? They literally sit in a circle and the regulations say they're not supposed to be more than a shoulder width apart. So they're like me and Andrea, pretty close. Is it generally a small community? I think it can be anywhere from small to really large. I mean, some places there's hundreds of monks. And then they chant? They chant back and forth. They take the refuges. puram saranam gacchami, dharmam saranam gacchami, they do this chant in Pali, and then there's some call and response as well, where they also tend to read, I think it's a longer ceremony, and they read some more elucidations of the text, like what breaking the precept means, actually,

[33:32]

you know, what some examples are of doing it. Who decides? Who decides what? Whether they've broken it or not. Is it a personal thing or does somebody else call them on it? Well, I think it can be either. You know, I think you're primarily responsible for keeping it yourself. But I think if somebody else sees you doing it, then they would go to you or go to, you know, your preceptor or teacher and Some of the precepts are repented by just you sharing it with a fellow monk, and some of them you have to sit down with a group of monks. and talk about it, and then talk about what the price of repentance might be. I don't know an awful lot about it, but that's what I've been reading.

[34:35]

I hope, actually, when I come back, one of the things that I'm going to do, I'm going to Thailand for a conference of the International Network of Engaged Buddhists, which I went to last year, and last year there were about 40 monks including several Westerners who become pretty friendly with, and a lot of Asians, some of whom speak English and some of whom don't, and I think this is something I'm looking forward to the opportunity to actually be able to sit down and talk with them about this. One of the things that, one of the groups that I'm going to be involved in at the conference is going to discuss Buddhist ethics, questions of sexuality and power, things that I've kind of been exploring a little here and also I'm interested in, and see how it's handled among the monks, and then to discuss how

[35:44]

you know, what guidelines might be for lay Buddhists, which, you know, is very unusual in, at least in Asia. We have them here, but they don't have them so much there. It's really seen as like, well, the monks, they do the practice, and we, you know, our practice is just to support them. So, maybe I'll have more to report on that when I come back. Alan, I feel, you know, as a result of taking this course, it becomes clear, I kind of felt this way before, but it's just clearer from focusing on the precepts that I break these precepts all the time. My whole life, you know, I feel like I'm drowning in breaking the precepts, you know, and the relationship between The precepts and sitting that I think I have is just this hope that by sitting, somehow, it will enable me to live in such a way in which I don't break the precepts as frequently.

[36:57]

There's one or two I don't really break, but most of the rest... Well, where did your understanding of breaking the precepts come from? Um, well, just simply reading the precepts and then reflecting on my daily life. Uh, you know, I can't think, I mean, I think that, you know, just like the first three, uh, if I can just see that. Um, you know, I vow to refrain from all that is evil. I don't think I do that, nor do I do all that is good, nor do I live for the benefit of all beings. I live for myself. I just feel that I can see the beauty of being able to not break the precepts.

[37:59]

It's just like an aspiration that seems really high. So I feel that it's not like thinking, oh, I broke that precept, gee, I'll have to repent that precept. It's more like the way I look at it is, I mean, I've been trying to see some it's also breaking the precepts and not a good thing to do, to fall into a state of self-condemnation. In other words, to dwell on the fact that But, and I hope that by being conscious of it, one of the things that has definitely come out of sitting and practicing in general in the class is being more explicitly aware of breaking the precepts.

[39:15]

And so that when it comes up, being aware, oh, I did that, yeah, praise self at the expense of others. You know, try to get, make sure I got a big cookie instead of a small cookie. You know, I'd be pissed off if I didn't get a cookie. You know? And so, but if I'm aware of these things as they're happening continually, consciously, many times a day, then I feel that's a step in the right direction. So, but your awareness is different than it was, say, six months ago. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, I might have, I think that, um, that's funny, when I was, I would say, ten years ago, I thought of myself as a basically good person. Um, six months ago, I thought of myself as, um, not a very good person, but, um, I wasn't aware of the particulars quite so much.

[40:23]

So I think that, but I do think that, you know, when someone says, well, for example, if it's said that it's, I think that condemning oneself, harboring ill will or slandering oneself is clear to me, is destructive. So I have to, the way I look at it is, I have to try to be aware of breaking the precepts and try to refrain from as many evils as I can, refrain from breaking the precepts as much as I do, but not fall into self-hate or pity about it, which is not a small order. I was going to say, how do you do that? I had an interesting course of events over the six weeks.

[41:38]

At the beginning, I felt very hyper-serious about everything, and that's not unusual for me, but it got extreme for a while, and I began to have a very righteous feeling. Everything, sometimes a discussion, you know, the participation felt kind of self-righteous. Something about Aitken Roshi, reading it at the beginning, irritated me because it didn't feel serious in the way I was feeling. And then last night when I was reading that wonderful chapter, Eating the Blame, of which the guy eats the snakehead, I just laughed and I thought, that's a relief. God, it felt like leaving college where you had to wear black to be serious and never smile. And I just felt there's a dance in this. And then let's live it, you know, we're human and we eat snakes or heads or we don't or we cook them and oh, whoops, you know, and I loved it. I felt like the way the print is in the book too, there's enough space and the type that they chose is small and so it felt like the words didn't have this, now don't do this, dear, or you...

[42:51]

And it just relieved me tremendously. So I feel much lighter and feel like the whole defensive posture or justification or self-flagellation feels like kind of what Kathy said, you know, it's the first precept, you're killing life, you're taking life. And so I kind of feel very relieved that I can approach it with a hopefully, for more than a day, with a good grazing, with a dance, rather than a heavy clod. I was sort of aware when you were speaking, Kathy, that you speak about breaking the precepts, and I always think of them as following the precepts, and I think it has a softer feeling. It's sort of... Because something that's broken feels like, you know, it's shattered.

[43:54]

And the way it seems like part of that, that business of being hard on yourself, and you think of this hard thing that's frangible. Yes, the precepts. I guess the other thing is, I had just this little vignette this morning that was very clear to me. I mean, well first, I've been feeling awful physically, and you know, it's one thing to follow them when you're feeling great, and then I feel my irritability and my stinginess with myself just grows, you know, with every ache in my body. But this morning, I had had breakfast with Maile and I had just gotten in my car and somebody, a young woman came and knocked on my window and said, I locked my keys in my car, I need a ride, I'm going to be late for school.

[45:06]

Can you give me a ride to University Avenue? And I said, no. And as soon as I said it, I realized, one, I'm lying. And two, I'm just being incredibly stingy. And I did have the time to do it. And I reversed it right away. And I gave her a ride. And it was pleasant. And I had nothing to lose by it. But somehow, because I had all those categories, little boxes to fit things into, I caught myself before I moved into action. And I could identify the thoughts. And usually, I sort of resent Through the whole class, they've sort of worked for me because I've sort of been able to... It's helped me to identify things faster when they've happened, rather than to look at them in retrospect at a great distance. the lead time or the lag time between saying something or doing something and knowing what feeling is arising with it becomes shorter.

[46:57]

And most of you, I'm sure, years ago it would have, you know, it would take me a long while to realize that I was really pissed off at something, you know, and all that while I would be kind of spewing or leaking. And now I can realize it more quickly and that may not keep me I may not be any better at letting go of it. I think that's another stage, but I can at least try to keep from inflicting it on other people. And then I think the next step is to try to keep it from inflicting it on myself. But I think the lag time becomes a lot shorter. And this is the advantage, I think, of working with something as a practice, that your awareness comes up more quickly.

[48:04]

And so you don't spend so much time being caught by an emotion or an activity or even someone else's words. And I think that comes up in zazen too. You recognize you're gone from your breath and you come back and sometimes you're doing that like every ten seconds. And sometimes you're just gone. But in either way, sometimes you're just gone sitting in samadhi, sometimes you're just gone asleep. but it's really strong and that's some of what I felt, you know, working with these precepts over the last number of weeks has been really helpful to me. But it's painful because you're also aware of not keeping them. How do we keep

[49:12]

falling into the trap of trying to look like we're good. It seems like I can see the wisdom in not talking about the precepts until the end of the study if it's going to pull you away from noticing what's really going on and coming to your understanding from within instead of from without. Can you say that again? Well... I understood the first part of the question. I wasn't exactly sure what you were saying about the wisdom of not... Not talking about precepts until the end of the study because it sets up a performance standard and it could just create performance in people instead of a real connection with knowing where you are and what you're doing and whether or not it's productive or destructive.

[50:17]

It seems to me like it's the built-in problem of religious organizations, that there comes to be a standard of performance and people can go through the motions and meet the standard and really have no goodwill behind it. And I'm wondering, how can we keep from doing that? It's almost opening a Pandora's box to start talking about precepts, because then everybody is trying to look good. But that's normally the way Zen practice starts, I think. It starts by taking the refuges, but you don't study the precepts, actually. I mean, very traditionally, it was very unusual for him to

[51:19]

to teach the precepts, that at the end of at least a Rinzai course, the last thing that you would study would be the precepts. I think out of fear that to study them earlier, you would fall into duality. You know, you would fall hopelessly into right and wrong. You know, and I'm not sure that's so bad, but that's my perspective. That's why we're, you know, that's why Mel said it was okay to study this. That's why he talks about the precepts. That's why, you know, Rev has been talking about them. and 8ken Roshi, that maybe we need to talk about right and wrong, rather than wait till the end of our training to consider it.

[52:23]

What is that? Well, in Rinzai training, there is a very definite program of koan study. Right, but we may not live long. We may not. We don't do that practice. you can talk about. with these people who were, you know, finishing up their study, but presumably even though the subject matter was the same, the approach...

[53:31]

at any stage. Yeah, I don't think this is a light conversation that we've been having here for six weeks. I think this is a really serious matter of how we conduct our lives. And I don't think that anybody would be in this room if you know, if this wasn't a real concern to them and they really didn't want to explain it, why would you give up your Thursday night and pay some money and sit around and talk about this for an hour and a half if it didn't have some sense of urgency to you? And I'd just like to trust that that urgency is enough to make us really try to look deeply into this. I was just reading today something in that Dogen said, which was... I don't know if he was talking about the precepts or not exactly.

[54:40]

Maybe he was. But he was saying, well, don't worry about what it's saying. Just do this and get it into your physical body. And you just keep doing it and then it just becomes integrated and part of you and you just start doing it. Then you're just doing it. So there was that view of it too. I think Mel stresses that quite often in his lectures and in Doga Sangha too. It's nothing more than just osmosis. Just take it in, work with it, don't get so conceptual about it. Right, well that's very much Mel's way of teaching. I think that Mel's, for me, the way I learn most from Mel is like sometimes it's watching him walk. or the way he wears his robes or something like that. That's not the same as somebody else's way of teaching, necessarily. But you do have to get it in your body. One way you get it in your body, I think, is by doing some kind of study like this.

[55:46]

And then, like Kathy was saying, more and more painfully, these things come up. You feel like you're not keeping this, you're not keeping that. But if you have some faith and you're doing some continual practice, then there is the possibility of transformation. And, you know, living a life of the precepts more completely, or understanding when you're off from it and bringing yourself back. Those monks that Dogen was addressing in the Shofi Mantras of the Monkey Yard were, you know, at AAG, and they were living in this rarefied atmosphere, and only in that atmosphere I think you could accept a teaching that was so strict as that book. I've read that book several times, simply because I couldn't believe the first time I read it how strict that teaching was.

[56:49]

And the more I read it, the more I realized that, yeah, it's strict, but these people are in a context of a monastic context, which gives them the opportunity to first go through a process of renunciation, which is very difficult for us in lay practice to go through. I mean, leaving home and following the way is a really hard thing to do. But staying at home and following the way seems like the opportunity much less available for things like renunciation and taking refuge and receiving these precepts. It's something that happens in almost every ceremony in the monastery. And so it's something that's going on and on and on. And here, the full moon ceremony certainly helps. But I find myself having to be satisfied with the opportunities that I have to address these issues in a ritualistic way.

[57:59]

And I really wonder if it wouldn't be just easier to leave home and follow the way sometimes because of how difficult it is to practice out in the world. and keeping these precepts in mind and not being so tough on myself, given the background that I have in the Christian Church and all. That's another thing, these vows, The one reason why I think it's safe to lose yourself in the right and wrong of these vows, it's easier for me than it was with, say, the Ten Commandments. Because there's just no way I can do this. Whereas I think, I got the impression as a child, you know, that I was expected to keep those commandments. and that breaking them was a sin.

[59:03]

And that was really bad. It's a given that these precepts, these vows get broken. It's the way I understand it. And this class hasn't changed my mind about that. So I can sort of take I feel like you just gave me a gift that is sort of to the side, but it just occurred to me that one of the reasons that I think I'm more comfortable, you said that, in a lay practice, is that because I grew up in a Jewish home, where the practice was centered on the home.

[60:11]

And there was a tremendous amount of ritual in the home, of lighting candles, Thank you for that. It's an insight that I've never exactly had before. a month and I'm wondering if you found it easier there than in your, you know, world back here and practicing MP3. No, there was.

[61:14]

I had Alan on one side and Eduardo Montoya on the other side, so I was in great company there. Sleeping, sitting, eating, and so forth. And so these were great pillars of strength for me as far as practice was concerned, but I was also, I mean, just a small example of how there are transplant telephones. And one time in the middle of me serving a meal, there was a transatlantic telephone call for me. Trans-Pacific, surely. Trans-Pacific. Trans-Pacific. I believe me and this phone call came around the wrong way. And it wasn't Pacific. And it wasn't Pacific. It was non-Pacific. No. So I got this telephone call. in the middle of trying to do the best job I could to serve an oreoki meal.

[62:16]

So there were distractions there. I think that what I got most centered by was being around the Japanese people and seeing that there was no discrimination in so many aspects of their life. including completely wreaking havoc on the ecology of the region, on the one hand, and protecting it with their life, on the other hand. I mean, to that extent. So, I don't know. I think just being in that country made me understand this practice. Is that an answer? Yeah. Well, I think, you know, being in a monastery is, in a way, makes it easier, too.

[63:25]

I mean, you're so exhausted, and you don't have any time, so there's no time to do these things. At least for me, there wasn't. And I remember thinking that, too. Just about the precepts. how that kind of environment just allows all that to kind of fall away? There are really very few, I mean, in Buddhism, in the West, there are very few real monastics, though. Very few. You know, we go, some of us will go to practice periods, or even spend several years at Ta Sahara, but almost, well, not almost, invariably, you come back. and there is not a culture that supports a life of Buddhist monasticism here in the way that there might be in Japan or in Thailand or somewhere like that. So it's difficult and it's like

[64:26]

in a sense, and this is kind of a joke, but as lay practitioners, and I have to count myself, even though I've taken monks' vows, I have to count myself as a householder and as a lay practitioner. In that sense, we have to renounce, we even renounce renunciation. which I suppose is a very Buddhist thing to do, but it gets mighty tricky, you know, because we're not allowed the narrowness and clarity of a renunciate's life. Things are real muddy in my life and I bet in everyone's. Well, how do you remember Chen Master Sheng? You know, this guy weighs about 80 pounds.

[65:39]

He's got a beard down to here. And he says, I still have greed, but I see it coming. So, I mean, it works. As to what? Just to have it work at age 90. I don't mean you, I mean all of us should live so long. That's back to what you said. We have this life. It's a gift. We don't know for how much longer. We shouldn't waste an instant of it. But we do. The other thing about approaching these things Somebody came to what Bill was saying about them being different from commandments. And softening this kind of very heavy, very heavy self-examination, I think, is that, I mean, the teaching of compassion, you know, I feel that, you know, Mel's talked about the balance between wisdom and compassion.

[66:55]

To do all that is good and to refrain from evil, I feel that's the wisdom. And the compassion is the understanding that that is not going to be easy and it's not going to be done. And I feel that it's Living with compassion for myself and for other people means always trying to do what's right, but also forgiving constantly, forgiving the transgressions, which doesn't mitigate. It doesn't excuse. Well, it does excuse. It doesn't in any way eliminate the necessity to intently follow the precepts.

[68:04]

But there's no vengeance, there's no condemnation. Well, that's what I was speaking to earlier when I was saying breaking the tenth precept means seeing oneself as an ordinary being. and not allowing oneself the leap, to make the leap to live as a Buddha. And what I said was, living as an ordinary being is kind of indulging in one's shortcomings. Not with compassion, but with a kind of slackness. And again, we're going to have these shortcomings, but we can wish to transform them.

[69:08]

We can use the shortcomings as a dharmagate, as a door to practice. I still have greed, but I see it coming. So when you see it coming, then you have a chance to be a Buddha. But if you say, well, I still have greed, so maybe I'll just, yeah, well, yeah, right, but I'm not sure how to express that greed, get the money or, you know, have the hamburger or, you know, whatever, just today, you know, I'll just do that, and then tomorrow I'll practice non-greed. that's a kind of slackness with yourself. And I hesitate to say this because it sounds moralistic and I don't think that I can live up to that standard.

[70:12]

yet, of not indulging it. I mean, I indulge it in all kinds of small ways, but still, little by little, you can see it coming quicker. I'm reading that this is the best I can do now. Right. That's another way of looking at it. Yeah, that's not so bad. Or do it and be aware that there are consequences. Oh, yeah. That's interesting. One of the things that I've been afraid to do, and I especially saw it, I went to talk to the Harvard Facts period, and I saw more clearly there was my unwillingness to just do, to just, I was feeling something for someone, or just, just to allow myself to do something bad or wrong, and then just to see it, and see all the consequences, and to be open about it with myself, and to see it with others.

[71:15]

And that's, I think, where healing happens, you know, I really do. You allow yourself to make these, to be yourself, and whatever happens, and then everybody, you know, the sangha helps you. I was thinking of Andrea saying that when things came in that bothered her, that she felt that at that point all she was going to try to do was to make herself bigger, so that there was room for those things. I mean, there are different ways. Yeah, for me, there was a matter of accepting myself, my self, and just trusting that just to be myself with all of my faults in, and then, but still trusting yourself, you know, having some faith in the practice, and, you know, yeah.

[72:25]

That was a big issue, trusting. Sometimes I think it's just about better habits. Sometimes it just seems like a habitual way that I am. Well, like what you were talking about, well, I could do this thing now, but the effort is just too great at the moment, so I'll try harder next time. To create a new habit, you just have to start doing it. Well, that's the Theravada way. you just have rules about, you know, you have rules of conduct, rules of behavior, rules of what you can do and what you can't do, and your life is very prescribed and circumscribed. And I think that works. It's also Nietzsche, you know. I mean, it's act first, the action comes first and the thought comes later.

[73:29]

Yeah, right. Bring the body and the mind. Yeah. I sit here and interact with myself. I mean, I don't want to put that on. Yeah, I mean, it gets put down a lot in Mahayana circles, but it works. Over the long run, it works. And I don't think it works any slower than the way we practice it. I mean, this is supposedly the sudden school, and that's supposedly the gradual school, but I'm not sure which is... in the long run, which is more sudden or not. I mean, in the long run, if you really practice that kind of life sincerely, there will be some kind of spiritual growth. Spiritual growth may not be the point, though.

[74:44]

It may not be the point, but... When it comes to enlightenment. Right. But it's just... I don't know, when I say that... Spiritual growth may not be the point. I mean, that's very... It's not very Zen. But that's kind of the Theravada or Hinayana way, the spiritual growth. It's the gradual path. But that may not be our way. That's true. It's the business of just doing and then seeing it happen. Many, many years ago, in the summer, we used to always say, I vow to save all beings instead of I vow to awaken with them.

[75:50]

And someone asked Suzuki Roshan, oh, but that's lying. I can't save all beings. all sentient beings, and he said, just say it! And in a way that too is like, you know, the just doing is just saying it, now somehow it begins to make sense at some level that when you say it over and over again, that is more than the words, rather than less than the words. Well, it's like that's when you begin to make the words in action. And then that precedes the thought. But it takes a lot of doing that, I think, to do it. And we don't, mostly Americans don't respond so good to just do it. Which is why it's really good for us to do it.

[76:54]

But, boy, did we... we certainly rebelled at Tassajara and certainly rebelled in Japan at, you know, what little we were told to just do it. It's very interesting. Yeah, there was one rule there, basically, and that was we would do everything as a group. And we just could As Mel has mentioned once, there's really two rules for practicing there. One is just be nice. The other is to follow the schedule. And they're really hard to do. Right. One but not the other. The machines are like that too. You're right. Be nice to everyone. Yeah. Without discrimination. Yeah, right.

[77:56]

Be nice to everyone. The hard part is, remember that being nice to everyone includes being nice to yourself. So when you're being nice to everyone, you're like, God, why am I doing this? Well, I think we're getting near the end. There are some people who haven't spoken. of you would like to say something. It's not required, but... Oh, yes, there is another class starting up on March 11th It's uh, I think it's been called introduction of Buddhism and I suspect it'll be quite different from the Class that Fran taught by that name and I it's being taught by Ron Nestor and Grace Shearson and

[79:08]

I guess they'll put some kind of syllabus up on the board this week or so. And then following that there'll be a class, Mel will be giving a class during practice period in May and June, a five-week class. And then we'll probably take a break for the summer, unless we do something with Rebecca on a more hands-on basis. We haven't quite figured out the schedule yet. The years seems to go by very quickly, on whatever we call an academic year here. The weeks certainly go by. Anyway, that's what will be going on. Do we know anything else about your class? Not yet. But I think he would like it to be a class that has a lot of discussion. That's what he was... That's what he's been thinking of, and I'm not sure what he's thinking of teaching.

[80:12]

Actually, let's read these precepts, just by way of closing. The BCC precepts. Start with the pure precepts and read the great precepts. of these precepts come from? Of these? Yeah. These are a version of Dogen's precepts that then Mel has adapted slightly, but they're pretty much a translation of Dogen's. They're very much like the version of Dogen's precepts that are in Aitken's book, I think. But then, I think what he's done, I mean, I've seen a lot of different versions of these precepts in the last couple of months, and I can see that he sort of collated different translations into this one, which seems to me quite elegant.

[81:16]

So, let's start with the pure precepts and read both parts. I vow to refrain from all evil. It is the abode and source of all Buddhas and the law of all Buddhas. I vow to do all that is good. It is the teaching of Anuttara Samyak Sambodhi and the path of the one who practices that which is practiced. I vow to live and be lived for the benefit of all beings. It is transcending, profane and holy, taking self and do not kill. I vow not to take what is not given. The self and objects are such, do yet run. The gate of liberation stands open. I vow not to misuse sexuality.

[82:17]

Let the three wheels of self, objects, and action be pure. With nothing to desire, one goes along together with the Buddhists. saturates all and harvests the truth. I vow not to sell the wine of delusion. Originally pure, don't defile. This is a great awareness. I vow not to slander. In the Buddha-dharma, go together, appreciate, realize and actualize together. Don't permit fault-finding. Don't permit haphazard talk. Do not corrupt the way. I vow not to praise self at the expense of others. Buddhas and ancestors realize the vast sky and the great earth. When it manifests the noble body, there is either inside or outside in emptiness.

[83:19]

When it manifests the dharma body, there is not even a bit of earth. One dharma, one realization is all Buddhas and ancestors. Therefore, from the beginning there has been no stinginess at all. I vow not to harbor ill will, not negative, not positive, neither real nor unreal. There is an ocean of illuminated clouds and an ocean of ornamented clouds. I vow not to abuse the holy treasures, to expound the dharma of this body is foremost. Virtue returns to the ocean of reality. It is unfathomable. We just accept it with respect and gratitude. Thank you. Well, thank you all for participating in this class.

[84:21]

This has been a really wonderful experience for me. I'd like to hand out these evaluation forms, and as soon as you can, fill them out. I mean, it doesn't have to be tonight, but it's helpful to fill them out and leave them in my box so that we can just have a take on how to get a better idea on how to run classes, which, little by little, we're learning how to do. And there was talk about possibly having some kind of ongoing precept study or discussion. And I wonder, are there people who are interested in that? I think maybe what I'll do is when I get back from Asia, I'll put up a sign and people are interested, we can get together and figure out, maybe we can study a little in the morning or find a time to maybe do that.

[85:25]

And it'll also be interesting to report back on what the discussion of some of this stuff was like. in Asia, along with other things. I'll also probably have a slideshow about the trip to the Burma border and stuff. I guess that's about it. Thank you so much.

[85:44]

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