Good evening. So, last time, I asked everyone to think about and write down any precepts that you think would be helpful in our practice. Minor precepts. Precepts, the purpose of precepts is to help us, to guide us in some way, and to free us so that we don't make a lot of mistakes. And sometimes precepts will go against our desire, and that's why precepts are important. to check us, give us a check on our behavior with others and with material things, not just each other.

[01:15]

For ourself, for each other, and for material things as well. So, I'm going to read to you the ten clear mind precepts, which we call clear mind. Usually they're called prohibitory, but I discovered the clear mind precepts, which I like a lot better than prohibitory precepts because prohibitory Precept sounds like finger shaking. So there are two sides of precepts. One is positive and the other is negative. So negative precepts is don't do this, don't do that.

[02:15]

Positive precepts are do this, do that. And so we combine them. with clear mind precepts is a combination of avoid this and do that, rather than don't do this or don't do that. Avoid stepping into dog poop. And then, that's a good precept. The positive side is, take a plastic bag with you and clean it up. So, these are the ten clear mind precepts. I resolve not to kill, but to cherish all life. I resolve not to steal or take what's not given, but to honor the gift not yet given.

[03:17]

I resolve not to misuse sexuality, but to remain faithful in relationships. I resolve not to lie, but to communicate the truth. I resolve not to sell or use the wine of delusion, I'm sorry, the wine or drugs of delusion, but to polish clarity. I resolve not to dwell on the mistakes of others, but to create wisdom from ignorance. You don't have to mark all these down, but we can give you copies. I resolve not to withhold spiritual or material aid, but to share understanding, giving freely of self. I resolve not to harbor ill will, but to dwell in equanimity. I resolve not to abuse the three treasures, They also disparage for abuse in respecting the Buddha, unfolding the Dharma and nourishing the Sangha.

[04:23]

So these are the 16, which kind of a reduction of the, not even a reduction, very different from the 250 precepts of the Srivaka or the Bodhisattva precepts. So as we know, in China, and especially in Japan, the precepts became modified more and more until, in Japan, most all the schools decided on the 16 precepts, which are the three treasures, Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. The three pure precepts, avoid evil, do what is good, and devote your life to helping others, basically. So those are the 16, 10 clear mind precepts and six of the others.

[05:33]

So pure precepts are kind of a heading, you know, don't do evil, avoid evil, do what is good, which is the opposite. So these are kind of dualistic precepts. Don't do this, do that. This is not good, that's good. But the higher so-called understanding of precepts is beyond good and bad and right and wrong, which doesn't mean that we avoid or don't pay attention to what is right and wrong or good and bad. But there's also a higher understanding, which is higher in the sense that it's beyond our understanding and beyond our ability to change, because things are just what they are. You know, when Suzuki Roshi was talking about precepts, his understanding of precepts is that precepts come from inside, not from outside.

[06:56]

And that our understanding and our activity, our actions should come from Zazen. So he plays Zazen, and not just him, but this is Soto's school, understanding, plays Zazen in the forefront or as the basis. And from this understanding through Zazen, that the precepts will come forth from within us as our own request rather than something imposed on us. But on the other hand, so that's one side, but on the other hand, it doesn't mean we should neglect the precepts that are written down from outside. So the precepts that we follow from so-called outside, remind us of our precepts from inside.

[07:59]

You understand that? I think you do. So we have a lot of them. So these are the major precepts that I just read, the 16 precepts, those are major. And we actually don't have minor precepts. You know, in China, The Chinese bodhisattva precepts are these 10 plus 48 minor precepts, which are more particular to situations, right? More particular to various situations. So, What I've actually asked us to do is to think about what would be relevant in this practice as a minor precept, which is for a particular situation, not necessarily, but it depends.

[09:16]

There are various levels of minor precepts. Some are more majorish and some are more minor-ish. A lot of the minor precepts, historically, like in India, was don't pee on the stupa or on the grass, which is very particular and really about particular behavior. I'm gonna read just a couple of things a couple of minor precepts which I wrote some time ago, and you get some idea of what I'm thinking about. A lot of my minor precepts are about behavior during a talk, you know, about interrupting,

[10:21]

and about expressing your own ideas and taking over and aggrandizing your own. So I wrote several about that. But I'm not going to talk about those right now. Here's one. Don't use excuses like, when asked to do something, I'm not good at that, or that's not the way I am. Do you know that one? Never heard that before. So don't use these excuses like, I'm not good at that, or that's just the way I am. In Zen practice, we give you things to do that you're not good at, purposely, or that you don't like. to give you an obstacle to our egotistical behavior.

[11:27]

The purpose of Zen practice is to get beyond egotistical behavior. So another one is take correction without excuses or backbiting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And allow yourself to be moved by others. Sometimes we have a lot of resistance. If someone is given the position of directing others, to allow yourself to be directed. I remember one time, We were doing some sanding of the trim on the bathrooms. And when you sand paper, you go with the grain.

[12:32]

Do you remember that? You go with the grain, right? And so there was this woman going against the grain. I said, don't do it that way. You go with the grain. She said, don't tell me what to do. I know what I'm doing. I did not kick her out. She left long term. So here's a very good one. It is difficult for someone over 50 to receive correction, but that's no excuse. And then, practice not letting your mind get ahead of your body. or vice versa. You know, sometimes we're thinking, thinking, thinking, and we don't pay attention to our body at all. We just kind of go, we think we know what we're doing, but we're not paying attention to our thinking and our body as well.

[13:38]

So that's a very good, necessary, And so a positive one is practice returning to calm mind over and over again. That's carrying, that's practicing zazen at all times. And then the practice of, which is really hard, of letting go of resentments. Resentments can really control us. And they come up and we're caught. You know, the first thing is when we resent something that rubs us the wrong way, or what somebody did and we don't like it, is that resentment does come up.

[14:46]

And so when something comes up, it comes up, we can't help it. Anger arises, resentment arises, various things arise. But then to actually see, to acknowledge the resentment and say, is this beneficial? What will this lead to? What karma will this resentment lead to? And when we can't let go of it, then the resentment is leading us. and so we're not free. So this is an example of freedom, freedom from. And Suzuki Roshi used to talk about this all the time. People think that doing whatever you want is freedom, but actually doing whatever you want creates karma of one kind or another. Real freedom means to be free from, not free to do, necessarily.

[15:52]

to be free from resentments, as an example, to be free from our anger, then we can actually use anger in a positive way, if need be. And don't show off, another good one. Don't treat people in a subservient manner. If you have a position of authority, Sometimes, you know, a person has the position of authority, and they treat those people who have more authority very nicely, but they treat the people under them very badly. This can be a problem. And then practice that ego, the need to control. So these are some minor precepts. It's hard to say whether they're major or minor, but they're minor because they're not universal.

[17:01]

So did anybody write down any of these precepts? Any precepts? Oh, you did. I didn't write it down. Okay. Eat every meal mindfully. Yes. And then second one is, if you are correcting someone, be gentle and correct only for their benefit and not for yours. Yes. That's already a precept, but that's OK. That's right. You don't correct somebody in order to criticize them or to get something off your chest or to make yourself feel superior. Those are all actions which create karmic suffering for the person who is doing that.

[18:15]

We don't know how. We don't realize how we create our own suffering. And we think that we're doing something that makes us feel good, but actually in the end, we get caught by it. So bad people, you didn't do anything, okay. Not to speak until the other person has finished speaking. Yes. That's a good one. We all make that mistake. That's very common. Not to hold a historical view or a fixed view of someone. A fixed view, but rather let them be you each time you see them. Well, that's called unassuming. Not to hold a fixed view, but to not assume that you know who they are or what they're going to do or which always gives them the opportunity to change, but not to try to make them change.

[19:31]

Avoid gawking to stimulate desires. Avoid gawking. to stimulate desire. Yeah, that's a good one. For me, it's a good one. Yeah. It's like, you know, if you're a man and you see people walking by, do you gawk at other men or do you gawk at women? Women. Yeah. So that's a very good one to see. everybody kind of equally, in a sense, which doesn't raise your own emotions. Do you want to hear the long version of it?

[20:33]

We want to hear a long version. The long version is avoid gawking at the swimming pool for titillating desires. That's the long version. I cleaned it up. Yeah, well that's good, that's very good. What about, do women gawk? I'm not sure. Yeah. Notice when and how love arises. Yes. Yes, and to notice when, whether, your gawking includes love, or it's just lust. I think that's what you're talking about, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's just that that reminded me that Shinobu Kakumura once shared a story of how for him the gawking experience is in airport bookstores, and that because he has a great enjoyment of books,

[21:47]

he finds it a very deep practice to be in a bookstore and practice with desire, so to speak. And practice? Practice with desire, or whatever you want to call this, like gawking. So it's not, you can objectify anything and you can enter into a, whatever that is, greed mind. Yes, to notice what mind is arising. Well, that's definitely practice. to always notice which mind is arising. Is this greed arising? Is this love arising? Or is this anger arising? Or is this delusion arising? Delusion is the hardest to recognize, because as long as you're deluded, you're not examining. I'd like to speak a little bit more about that one, I was just going to say that I also noticed that eye contact is kind of an interesting thing because if you stare at somebody, even if you're driving in a car, they can be annoyed by it, man or woman.

[23:09]

I noticed that. I noticed there's certain people that just will not. just don't like to be looked at. And not just from studying myself and what I do. Especially gang members. You don't want to look them in the eye. But I also think it's also what the environment is. If you're in a big city, people have more fear, I think. Where if you're in a small town, eye contact is not Well, it's an interesting thing, because sometimes eye contact makes a big difference. Certain people, if you make eye contact with them when you're passing by, they really appreciate it. Yeah. But not everyone. But it's not... But not what?

[24:16]

I mean, there's some people that are annoyed by it, especially if there's an age difference, too. Like if you're an older man and a younger woman, not a girl. A young girl wouldn't care if she's kind of free. So there's all these nuances. Well, it depends on what's in your mind. It all depends on what you're thinking. It's because what you read through the eyes into your thoughts. So if you're thinking with eye contact and you're thinking innocent thoughts, then usually you don't get a bad response. But if you're thinking some other kind of thoughts, then you may get a, a different kind of response. I think it all depends on what we're thinking. So that's why, in examination, we should examine what we're thinking when we do something like that.

[25:34]

I'd like to talk a little bit about an experience that I had in which love arose. I was sitting on the edge of my bed in front of my night table and I was depressed and in a heavy mood. And all of a sudden I saw the smallest little spider I've ever seen in my whole life. But it was like a comet, it went zhoom, zhoom, zhoom, zhoom. And I said, that's, what energy, that's life. That's the universe. And I love that spider. I loved it. Yeah. Yes. I remember one time I was in Mexico, in a little village in the jungle, and

[26:36]

I was walking in this path and I stepped on something and it moved. The way it moved, it was like an earthquake. It was a snake, kind of a fat snake. And it was covered with dirt, you know, and it just, it was like, it was, the earthquake was kind of like, just ran all through me. And you can feel that this is universal power, you know, universal, Cosmic power. Cosmic formation. Yeah. Cosmic energy. Yes. And then you realize that it's all over the place, right? Well, Tim had his hand up.

[27:41]

Did you? Yes. Thank you. Ross. I know, but Tim, behind you. To maintain relationships and engagement, use and instead of but. Yes, well it depends on... But it depends on and. He said well. Appropriate words for the appropriate time. There's something that bothers me. I'm trying to think what that is. There is and there are.

[28:44]

People use there is all the time for when they really mean there are. You're talking about more than one. You're talking about there are. You're talking about singular, there is. But people talk, say, there's, and then they talk about some couple of things, you know, more complex, where they should be using it. And people do it all the time. It's become a habit, a national habit, now without thinking about it. And I hear that and I think, oh, oh, again. And I have to let that go. and regain my equilibrium and not get worried about it. I get worried about it for a minute, you know, but I don't want to carry that around with me. There's a few things I want to share. What? There's a few things I want to share. There's a few things, right? There are a few things.

[29:46]

Yes, that's a good example. So what does it bother you? It's like too clipped? Too clipped? No, you're talking, you're using a singular, you're using, mixing the singular and plural. So did anybody else really think about, oh, Stan. Well, I just thought of one when you said that it's like don't fail to show up and participate for. Well, that's very good. I have one that's very much like that, somewhat like that.

[30:48]

That is, don't, you know, when you, when you, when you, I'm always late. Don't say, oh, I'm sorry. You just say it over and over again. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. And people say, it's OK. It's OK. But it's not OK. And so you use that because people say it's OK. You just keep doing it because you can always be excused. So there should be a precept about not thinking that because people excuse you, that it's excusable to just keep doing it. One of the minor precepts that you gave us, number five, is neglecting to persuade others to confess their wrongdoings.

[31:56]

Neglecting to persuade others to confess their wrongdoing. That's not mine. I didn't, you have that, but I don't think I wrote it. Well, no, no, it's illicit. That was a part of the handout, the 48. Oh, oh, oh. Minor precepts. From the, from the 48 from the Bodhisattva precepts. Well, the Buddhist philosophy of assimilation by Matsunaga. Say that again? is from the Buddhist philosophy of assimilation by Alisha Matsunaga. It was part of the handout. Well, you have to excuse him for doing that. I just took your information. I don't, yeah, I don't, it's fine. I understand, but I have a question about it. Because you said my handout, so. And I said your handout. So the question that I have is in relation to I'm sorry, I'm sorry, it's okay, it's okay, wrongdoing is kind of a hard, harsh kind of accusation of some kind of minor thing of somebody being late.

[33:12]

And I'm curious about how does one bring attention to someone's habit of being late instead of saying it's okay, how to Persuade them, not to confess a wrongdoing, but to kind of bring it to their awareness. Attention, yeah. Attention, yeah. Yes. Well, there are different ways, depending on what you think the reaction is going to be. Right? Uh-huh. So it depends. Somebody who easily accepts criticism will say, oh, thank you. Someone who doesn't will give you all kinds of, you know, And you don't want to deal with them, you know, because they may have a tantrum. Right. So you talk about someone else with that person. You say, you know, this person, that person is always late, you know. What do you think we should do about it?

[34:13]

And then they'll come up with the answer. And then you say, ah, you. I mean, you know, I'm only kidding. If you talk about, Tolkien suggests this. He said, when you have a problem with somebody, go about it indirectly, as if you're talking about something else. That's not a cure-all for everything, but it's a suggestion of how you handle that kind of situation. Talk about it with that person as if you're talking about something else. And then that plants the seed in the person. And then koans are like that. That's a kind of koan that you give somebody. Because then the seed is then planted. And then unbeknownst, it grows.

[35:15]

And then the person, oh, I got that. I'm always late. And I always make excuses. I mean, that would be the hope. Leslie, Leslie. That's OK. Don't be sorry. Yes, I did. Boom. I think this is sort of related to, in a way, to what Ross was saying. So when working with other people, another person or other people, be refrained from rearranging or doing over or restating what they just did or said, if it's good enough. Yes. Right. So, well, you say it again, not me. So when doing an activity or working with another person or other people, reframing or checking in about

[36:24]

rearranging what they just did, or doing it over, or if you're having a conversation, restating what they did, like how you think it should be, if what they did was good enough. Yes. Yeah, sometimes we like to rearrange it. Sometimes we rearrange it so we can understand it, and sometimes we rearrange it in order to be righteous. Right. Yeah, yeah, so righteousness is another something to, it's really hard to correct righteousness because we think we're right. And we don't like to say, I made a mistake or I'm wrong. I think we always have to be willing to say, I made a mistake. Not if we didn't, but sometimes if we didn't, it's good to say, I acknowledge this, at least acknowledge.

[37:35]

Okay, so. Do one thing at a time. Yeah, do one thing at a time. But that sounds simple. But it should be a major preset. Well, it's a minor precept. Because it's about you, it's not about relationship. So do one thing, you can't. But it is about relating to the thing you're doing. Yes, it's about, yes. Whether it should be minor or major, that's beside the point. But everything we do is done with all kinds of help. I mean, everything we do is complex. It's not simple. But using Zazen as an example, you're doing one thing, but the whole body is involved in this one thing, right?

[38:49]

Each of the limbs and fingers and all parts of your body are all doing the same, are all oriented toward doing this one act. So that to me, that's what doing one thing means. But it's all made up of all different kinds of, all different parts. You know, many contributing parts. Like swim and don't gawk. Like what? Like swim. when you're swimming, and don't gawk. Oh, I see. Oh, look at her. Oh, look at her. Alexandra, what's next? Practicing keeping my attention in my heart in order to be able to stand up straight, sit up straight, and walk.

[39:55]

Yes. I have to do that all the time. Yes, you're forced to do it. Yeah. And so we're lax about it, you know, because we're all controlled in some way by, our postures are controlled by our mood. All of our postures are controlled by our mood, you know, and so Here I am sitting with my back against the chair. But actually, I should be sitting like this without leaning against the back of the chair. So thanks for reminding me. You know, we don't want to hold our posture stiff. You know, we don't want to walk around like generals, you know, or the cock of the walk. I have one precept is don't walk around like the cock of the walk. in general. So how to, you know, pay attention to your posture at all times, and at the same time be totally flexible.

[41:06]

Yeah. So that's really important. If you're slouching, no, I'm slouching, right? If you're sitting up straight, you know you're sitting up straight. So keep reminding ourself. It keeps attention in the immediate vicinity. Yes. And when you do that, you know, your relationship with things changes. It really does change. I see more. Yeah, and you're acting from a balanced place. Well, yeah, it's very hard to You know, it's easy to misunderstand what compassion means.

[42:37]

Sometimes slapping someone is compassionate. Sometimes restricting somebody is compassionate. When it feels like it's not. So sometimes if a person is hysterical and you slap them, that takes them out of being, allows them to be free of that. So I think that what you mean by false compassion is kind of a sweetness that is not appropriate for thinking that that's compassion. treating your child candy, because the child loves candy, but not giving it to him is compassionate. She also mentioned idiot compassion.

[43:39]

Yeah, idiot compassion, that's the term, but thinking that by giving everybody what they want is compassion. I remember my son, Being so perverse one time, you were talking about, you know, there's a stage where all they want to do is eat candy. And he said, food is not food, candy is food. But as far as waking somebody up, or changing a disposition, some sudden break or some sudden movement can help. Because I remember one time when my son was really young, he used to have a kind of breathing problem, like asthmatic.

[44:43]

And so in the middle of the night, you know, we took him to Children's Hospital. They have couches and stuff in the registration lobby. And then they have these low tables next to the couch. The tables are just knee high. So I was carrying him and I couldn't see because I was carrying him kind of in front of my face. And so I was going up to the desk and the table, my knee hit the table and I went over the table with carrying him, and we landed, boom, on the floor. And he landed, I landed on top of him. And then we got up, and he was cured. We went home. Don't try that at home. Don't try this purposely.

[45:45]

I had Gary's do one thing at a time, but I also had, take zaz and mind into the world, especially traffic. Oh, in traffic, yeah. Well, traffic is always the big deal, you know. That's the great anger, frustration thing. You have anything to say about that? Yes. You know, I have a whole philosophy about this. Yeah, not that everybody knows you're a taxi driver. Yeah. It's that you control the road. So the way you drive, everyone adjusts to you, to the way you drive. If you're driving down the street, 10 miles an hour, you know, and you're stopping all the traffic, then everybody has to adjust to you. So you're actually,

[46:53]

controlling the road. And if you're driving real fast and weaving in and out and all this, people have to be very careful if they even notice you. And you're controlling the road that way, because everybody has to take their position in relation to you. So we're all taking our positions in relation to everybody else. And it's all this moving thing that never stops, even when you get to the stop sign. I always think about how, when I drive, what the other people in their cars, how they're relating to me and how I'm relating to them. And then you're looking way ahead to see what's going on and looking at the back of you before you make a move. I enjoy that because when you're doing that, it's a game.

[47:56]

It's a wonderful game. I like to drive in traffic, which most people don't. But I really enjoy driving in traffic because it's a kind of game. And to create a harmonious, sometimes I drive really fast, but it's not fast, it's just quick. Yeah. Not to be greedy. Not to be greedy. I have a client in the room. It's been coming up lately a little bit. I'll toy with how high can I go. Now I'm going to go lower and see what happens. Lower and lower. Where does that one fall?

[48:58]

Yes. It also has to do with sex. That precept can be construed various ways. One way it's construed is don't be greedy, basically. So both of those precepts are about greed. Stealing is about greed. Sexuality is about greed. Lying, using wine or drugs It's a little bit about greed. It's wanting something. It's doing something because you want something.

[50:11]

Praising yourself and downgrading others is a kind of greed. You want something for yourself. You want to be big and make everybody else look like Donald Trump. He becomes big by making everybody small. That's real greed. So greed, ill will, anger, and delusion are the three poisons. And so that's basically what we should be watching out for. And that's basically the why we have precepts, to make us aware of our greed, to make us aware of our ill will and our delusion. Stan? Well, since the precepts, all these long lists of precepts were addressing the problems that the monks had.

[51:23]

Do not walk down the street or across the street while staring at your cell phone. I would say if you're going to use your cell phone, sit down. Right. The corollary is practice keeping your cell phone in your pocket while walking in public. I think that's really a good one. I don't know. You can't enforce it. There is a law against using it while you're driving, but nobody ever gets caught doing it. There should be a law against walking across the street with it, but I think it's more of a Darwinian law, you know. Well, there should. Yes, it happens all the time, because that's where everybody is. So to be aware of how you're hooked on this little thing in your hand. which also plays a part in our postures.

[52:30]

We can't stop doing that. We can't stop because it's amazing. We just can't let go of that. I don't have one. Yeah. I don't brag about that, but it's just that Who wants to have all that information all the time? Is there not a precept, like thinking of the telephone, where we should be available to the present moment and the present circumstance pretty much all the time? Is there not a precept? Yes. So precepts aren't necessarily rules. Sometimes they're rules, but they're attitude. It's more like our attitude and our awareness and what we should be aware of. And so precepts are just the way our life unfolds and how we manage it.

[53:37]

Judy. If you can't put it down, give it away. You mean like spiders? Well, I mean the addictive impulse. So it includes a lot of things. I question that. Sometimes people give me something that they don't want and I don't want it either. I would say give something to somebody that you really want. Well, that's just a positive spin on negative phrasing. Yeah. Yeah, a positive spin on a negative statement. Yeah. I questioned, you know, like, Lehman Pong, the Chinese Lehman, who was very famous, you know, in the Tang dynasty.

[54:44]

And he was, you know, the equivalent of all the great bodhisattvas. And so he was very erratic. And so he took all of his belongings and dumped them into the lake. And I'm thinking, well, what does the lake think about this? You know, that's an environmental impact. Because that was, you know, I, we understand the reasoning behind that. But basically, What do you do with what you don't want? Which includes feelings, perceptions, mental formations, material things. What do you do with those things? So with emotions and mental formations, they can be stopped and they no longer grow.

[55:50]

But it's harder with material things because somebody was telling me that in Japan, everybody likes new things. They don't really like old things. There are some secondhand stores, there are, and flea markets and stuff like that, it's true. which are nice, good sometimes, but people throw a lot of old stuff away, and then the kudzu, the grass, covers it. And so you have this lot with all this junk, but it all gets covered by the kudzu, which covers things very quickly. So it's interesting, it's like, How do you really get rid of stuff that causes problems for others?

[56:57]

Anyway, I think that it's a nice thought to give somebody something. If somebody gives me something and I use it for a while and have it around, then I don't feel bad about giving it to somebody else, even though somebody gave it to me. I think what I'm teasing out here is whether I can't put an emotion down in the moment. So if I can put it down, if in the moment I'm having the experience that I can't put it down, and I've tried A, B, C, and whatever, I can't put it down, to just say put it down we'll just relax, which makes you even more anxious. So it's really working with that, but another example of that is material, like if I'm up late at night, addictively reading online one thing or another, and I can't put it down.

[58:07]

And so an hour has now gone by, and I still can't put it down. And then you get to go to bed at 12 o'clock. Right. And so the thing is, is to just say to myself, you know, well put it down, put it down. No, and what I noticed is, sort of like the Buddhist instruction, you know, if you have a rotten egg in the... The nail sticks up. Take it out, yeah, you know. So it's like, so it reminds me of like when Megan had that talk and said, you know, when you can't sleep, don't just sit there tossing and turning, just get up and go do something. And so it's working with that spirit. And so when I was thinking, give it away, it was more like, make the world larger, make the self larger to include others. And then you're offering somehow, you know, you can do something for others that you can't do for yourself sometimes to get out of the habit. It's somehow working with that spirit. Okay. I just want to say one thing. Just let it go. Don't put it down.

[59:09]

Let it go. That's a good one. Yes. Well, here are some things that I have thought of. To always let an older person, in speaking, in going through a door, in eating, in answering people's questions, in presenting views, go first. We don't, not that I, you know, I don't consider myself old, so you don't have to think about that with me, That is a problem.

[60:17]

But don't add on to a speaker's statements or answers to people without asking first or at least thinking about what effect that might have. Does that make sense? Don't add to the speaker statements. Well, you know, without thinking, well, what effect will this have on the speaker and on the people around you? And don't interrupt in the middle of a conversation between two people to present your own view. Like if you're talking to somebody and you're having, and then you walk in and then you present your own view. which totally interrupts their conversation. And don't take the conversation away from, when you're doing this, when you come upon it, like you're outside, and people are having a conversation, and you walk up, and then you interject your own view, and then you walk away with one of the people.

[61:42]

And it becomes your conversation with one of the people. So, I mean, this is thoughtlessness, you know, or it's something. Also, it's okay to let the speaker leave something unexplained without following the urge to fill it in or to clarify it. But what he really means is, think at least twice before offering your unasked approval when told what someone is doing. In other words, oh, I think that's good, or I approve, or something like that. That's a little obscure.

[62:50]

Yes. So, I don't want to go there. So, think twice before clarifying the speaker's presentation during their lecture. Think twice about giving a mini lecture when someone else is giving a presentation. So, it's like the speaker's giving a presentation, and then someone else starts to question, as if you're asking a question, but actually you're giving your own talk. And then your talk is to the audience, instead of to the speaker. So if you're going to add something, like a lecture to the lecture, at least do it to the speaker instead of to the audience.

[63:54]

Because if you do it to the speaker, then you're having a conversation, you're directing it to the source. But when you turn around and then you talk to the audience, you're taking it away from the speaker and continuing it as your own. Do you understand that? So these are all about self-centeredness and ego and wanting to be... Sometimes it's okay to add something. You can see that the speaker has forgotten something or doesn't understand what the question was or something. So sometimes it's okay to do that. But to give your own mini lecture is... demeaning, actually, to the speaker. So, think twice about making yourself the center of attention.

[64:59]

And think twice about dominating a conversation. And think twice about overstepping your boundaries. Don't boast. Try not to spend more time than anyone else detailing or indulging your feelings during a check-in. People go around, they say something about what they did or how they're feeling, and then it comes to the person, they give a long, long talk, indulging about my feelings and my thoughts. So that's overstepping your boundaries and dominating. And then, walk around with an imperious attitude, like I'm somebody. And try not to practice one-upmanship or to impress others with your knowledge or with whom you know.

[66:10]

And to or who, let's see, don't try not to practice one-upmanship or to impress others with your knowledge or whom you know. Like, it's called name-dropping. And be careful not to use information as a way to exercise power. You know, people who are privy to information can and people want to know something and so you dole it out a little bit at a time so that you control the situation and you're controlling uh people and and then it gives you some kind of power and that's very common um And try to be unassuming.

[67:12]

I think we covered that one. And don't assume that you are the first one to hear about something when making an announcement, as if you have some special privilege because you heard about something first. And be aware of when strong emotions arise. and don't use them to fuel a dominant position. We call that a charge. Your presentation has a charge. So practice letting go of the need to have the last word or to sum up. dealt with that a little bit, but a little different. And practice not having to always be first, but being last or in the middle, letting others take the lead.

[68:23]

And practice letting go of the need to control. It's interesting when you don't try to control things, you usually have a lot of control. So practice humility and don't treat people in a subservient manner. Don't show off. Practice letting go of resentments. Practice returning to calm mind. So practice renunciation. What is renunciation? It means dropping your ego. Really has not much to do with material things, even though people think that to have nothing is renunciation. It's true, we don't have, no matter how much we have, we have nothing. So I had some controversial ones here.

[69:50]

Treat everyone as your senior. That's hard. Don't present a teaching as if you just thought it up, when the person you heard it from is there. Does that stimulate you to think about something? More. Always be respectful of others, not just polite. Not just polite. just polite, especially when they're irritating to you or you're angry.

[71:11]

Well, polite can be respectful, but it can also be a cover, a thin, you know. I said not just polite. Yeah, a thin layer for not, for underneath grumbling, right? Yeah, yeah. I just wanted to say, thank you so very much. I'm just kidding. But we often, I was just going to say, the biggest thing I hear or feel tonight is renounce eager intentions, renounce the first thing that comes to you. When I'm taking away, I guess, my own personal practice, from all that I've listened to here, renounce following your first instinct, whatever it may be, because mine is always To be impulsive. Be careful of being impulsive.

[72:14]

Yes, that's really important. How to step back and be thoughtful. You know, we have a precept for meetings and it's let everyone speak. It's good if we speak last or, you know, let everyone speak and then say what you have to say. Sometimes we think that if I do that, I'll forget what it is I want to say. So many people have their, you know, and that's true. By the time it gets to you, you think, I can't remember what it was I wanted to say.

[73:16]

But if you write it down, you remember. But if somebody else says it, what you wanted to say, then you say, damn it. But you have to be able to, you know, someone else said it. That's good. I'm glad someone said it. And so how we respond to that, I think that's really important. It's letting someone else say what you would have said. Maybe not as well as you would have said it, and then not repeating it. So this is what makes meetings go on for so long. Sometimes it's like people take a little bit of what was said and make it into a big story. because we have to say something because we want to be, we want to move things. So it's, you know, and the opposite extreme is Japanese way.

[74:24]

Nobody's, you know, everybody sits up straight and they let people speak and they don't, sometimes they don't say anything even though they want to. And, but they kind of wait until everything's been said, and they may contribute to that too. But the impulsivity is absent. It's just not there. So that there's a lot of patience in waiting for that to come, for waiting their turn to say something. And it's sometimes excruciating. So that excruciating feeling of wanting to say something and not being able to say it when you want to say it is really good practice. The things that hinder us is where our practice is. It really is. It's the difficulties and the stuff we complain about.

[75:27]

I hear people complaining about this and that as if The things they're complaining about are real. But they're just made up. They're really made up. They're not real at all. But because we attach to them, we make them real, or seem real. So we get all this frustration. And the hardest thing is to be patient. Really hard to be patient, I mean in a real sense. And it goes all the way, it's very deep. As an example, minor example. There are major examples and minor examples. But as a minor example, when I drive, I like to get where I'm going with the least hindrance. So I'm, you know, go like this.

[76:30]

And I'm listening to the radio and I'm hearing some music. And I think, you know, the music is going on and there's a time limit between here and where I'm going, like the house. And I want to be able to hear the whole thing, but I also want to get there as fast as I can. So there's this dichotomy between am I going to, uh, be able to hear the end of this before I get there. But if I go too slow, then I'm missing my momentum. So it's like doing something against yourself. But if I don't try to get there fast, or just kind of go with the traffic and let the old ladies drive the way they do, and not try to get By the time I get home, the music ends at exactly the time I got home.

[77:34]

That's mysterious, but it works that way. I don't know how to account for it. It seems like a lot of the precepts that we're talking about are how to manage ourselves, our own internal myriad beings. I'm wondering if there's a place for a group of precepts in terms of how we manage relationship. I'm thinking particularly things like, I mean, I haven't thought about this before, but to not let things fester, but to address them before they get bigger. Something like that. Absolutely. Maybe some precepts having to do with how one conducts themselves in difficult conversations, like, I mean, there's obvious ones, like no name-calling, but more subtle than that, more sophisticated.

[78:39]

Yes, well, that's exactly what I'm talking about. That's what I'm trying to draw out, is how to Because as I said, it's not the rules, it's the understanding, how to keep yourself from getting caught in your emotions and your feelings and your thoughts. And to recognize your own complicity. When we get angry at somebody, You know, we don't think, how did I cause this? We think, they're doing this to me. But actually, we play into each other's aggressiveness, or each other's hurts, or whatever it is. And we don't realize how we cause, we say, oh, you know, my husband is always doing this, he's always acting like that, you know.

[79:47]

And thinking that it's all his fault, because I'm not doing anything to make that happen, except that we are. And so to always go back to, not to blame yourself, but to look at what actions am I contributing that creates this situation? How am I contributing to creating the situation? It's psychological, that's fine. We're all psychological beings. So I think that's getting down to the kind of nitty gritty. So I appreciate that. So we should bring those things, examine that kind of stuff. specific example in mind of someone who seems to not pay attention to what they're doing frequently.

[80:57]

And you're thinking, gee, if they did that, this wouldn't happen, if they did that, this wouldn't happen. And then it happens in my relationship with that person that something hit me hard on the head as a result of that carelessness. And yet I have found no opening to address that person, or in any way, given the precepts and so on, to me, to my assessment of them, my judgment of them, ready to hear. Yeah. Well, if a person is not ready to hear, it's difficult. I remember Suzuki Roshi saying, if a person, when you're dealing with somebody,

[82:09]

and they're not sincere, then just ignore them. Until they're ready to be receptive. That's difficult. Every situation is different, and the nuances of every situation are different. So in a general sense, you can say something, but that doesn't you know, it's the actual interaction that makes the difference. And I have interactions with students that have been here a long, long time and yet are not ready to hear what I really have to say. But then at some point something shifts and they are open to hearing something. And I can think of some students like that.

[83:16]

And it just, my response is patience. Just, you know, endless patience. I think the one that Hosan said, You don't have to like someone's behavior to want them to be happy. Oh, of course. You know, you always, liking and loving are not necessarily the same thing. But it's beyond liking or loving, actually. It's identification. Identification means that you don't abandon anybody because you always have to treat everyone like Buddha.

[84:19]

So you can't abandon them. Even if you say, go away and get out of here or whatever, it doesn't mean that you're abandoning them. you're always ready to accept everyone. Even though at the moment, you're not. At the moment, so this momentary, you deal with somebody in the moment with certain, But, and then there's the unconditional. So, the conditional and the unconditional. And so, conditionally, you can abandon somebody or tell them to leave or never see them again.

[85:24]

But unconditionally, you're always ready to embrace them. But the situation doesn't call for it. Well, it seems like that's really important in those moments where I really feel stuck, you know, like it's sort of like, well, I wish I was ready to let this go, but I'm noticing that in this moment I can't, so I let that go. You know, it's like what can be done that is helpful. Yeah. So, you know, non-attachment. is the practice. So non-attachment doesn't mean no responsibility. It doesn't mean that you don't care for things, right? But it means that you always have to be willing to let everything go, because eventually you let everything go.

[86:29]

And the practice that we have is the practice of letting everything go in its time. At the right time, we let everything go. Everything is history. Everything is history. We live in this moment. The future is just an idea. The present is hard to grasp because it's already history. non-attachment to things, which doesn't mean that you don't care for things. You do. But there's a certain point at which it doesn't make sense. So, you know, I really enjoy the students. I really have a good feeling about everybody.

[87:31]

And, you know, I have I have concern and all this, but people come and people go. And I never say, I never feel bad when somebody leaves. And I don't always feel good when people come. But I'm much happier, I'm really happy when people come. And if a person leaves, that's their business, you know. I'm never attached to a student. Here we are with our full attention. So people say, can I be your student? Somebody wrote me from some distant place that, can I be your student? I've never met this person before. Can you accept me as your student? I don't accept anybody as my student. People are just here. We practice together. And then at some point, we feel like I'm the teacher and you're the student.

[88:32]

Sometimes you're the teacher and I'm the student. So that's our life. So it's nice when people are here for a long time and we can enjoy each other's practice, contribute to each other's practice. But I can't be attached to anybody. All good? I'm sorry that we went over.

[89:12]

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