I saw a lot of people here for Zazen this morning. If this is your first day at Berkeley Zen Center or you've been coming for a short time, welcome, especially welcome. We're about to start our fifth week of our six-week spring practice period. And my name is Susan Marvin. I'm practicing as the shuso or the head student during the practice period. I've given three previous talks and two weeks ago, on Saturday, I introduced the koan that Sojin Roshi gave me to practice with, to study. Today I'm going to talk about that koan again.

[01:10]

I'm going to talk about it a little bit differently today as a result of reading several of Suzuki Roshi's lectures in which he refers to the koan and particularly a lecture he gave in 1970 at Tassajara on the Sando Kai. So the koan that I've been given is, Uman's every day is a good day. And I want to say again that I don't want to come across as taking this koan lightly. It may be that we can talk about where the koan points, but it's hard to practice in the way that the koan is encouraging us to practice.

[02:11]

So from my limited understanding of being with it for these four weeks, I think what it's pointing at is our divisive thinking and how to move away from our preferences and how to find a deeper meaning to practice, how to really pay attention to the actual moments of every day of our lives. And that's a pretty hard thing to do. So we redefine the word good. Every day is a good day to mean Every day is as it is. And one thing Suzuki Roshi talks a lot about is he uses the word actual practice, real practice.

[03:15]

Over and over I saw that word actual practice. Not something we think we're doing or something we're pretending to do or something we're imagining we're doing, but paying attention to our actual practice day by day, hour by hour, moment by moment. And he says if we do that, we begin to see that practice is continuous. And he uses that word continuous. And what he means by that is that at any given moment of our day, big mind and small mind are working together. The big mind is actually right there and small mind is actually right there. And in reading his lectures and also coming to the classes that Sojin Roshi has been teaching on Thursday nights, we're reading Thich Nhat Hanh's Eight Levels of Mind Consciousness.

[04:20]

Suzuki Roshi uses different language than Thich Nhat Hanh, but it keeps striking me how similar how similarly their ideas are. They may be expressing it differently, but they're both talking about this continuous practice. Once we really get a taste of that, even for a few moments, get a glimpse of that, we can see that our lives are so much deeper than we think of in our ordinary thinking as we go around evaluating things as good and bad and following our preferences. So he says that we wake up in the moment and realize that we're living in our actual, real practice.

[05:25]

He says when we realize that we're living continuously and that we're practicing continuously, then there's no separation and good and bad become, we don't want to use those words anymore to describe our experience. He says we're not trying to attain big mind and we're not trying to get rid of small mind. They're right there working together. So we fall down a lot in our lives and we stand back up. And he says, the attitude or the feeling that we bring to practice is what's most important. Not how much or how little we do, but the actual feeling, the actual attitude that we bring to each activity in our lives is what matters most and that we should pay attention to our attitude.

[06:34]

We should pay attention to the way we feel about how we're practicing in every activity we meet. And he says when we do that, we begin to see how practice informs our life and practice informs our decisions. He says the reason that we fall into this kind of divisive thinking, especially in our practice here, is because we separate practice and enlightenment. And he says we can't do that. Practice and enlightenment go together like the foot behind and the foot ahead in walking. He says if you really practice our way, enlightenment is there. When you practice zazen without any idea of attainment, there's actually enlightenment. So they go together. Some experiences come to mind when I consider what Suzuki Roshi is saying.

[07:46]

When I first came to practice a long time ago, I had previously done a lot of work with my hands. I think at that time, maybe I was still making baskets and teaching basket making, and I was considering not doing that anymore. And I went to Do Kisan, and you know, our teacher used to be a painter. And I said to him, was it hard for you to give up painting? And he said to me, I didn't give up painting. I stopped painting. And he said, you know, when we practice, in our practice, we're just expressing ourselves in another way. And I think at that time I had no clue what he was talking about. I probably left annoyed, thinking he was playing with semantics. But those words stayed with me all these years and I revisited them many times.

[08:48]

It's only after many years of practicing that I realized in studying this koan, oh, that's what he was doing. He was pointing at the same thing that this koan is pointing at. When we give ourselves completely to an activity, then when it's finished, we can give ourselves completely to the next activity. I guess it was about a year before my father died, so he would have been 94, and he was still living on his own. He played the violin all his life as a young man professionally, and then after that he played for his own enjoyment. He played a lot. And he was still playing, and I went over one day and he was playing the violin. He still had scores of music in his mind.

[09:53]

The memorization was still right there. He knew all the music. But his body at 94 was falling apart. And he had arthritis in his shoulders and his hands. And he wasn't getting the sound that he was used to producing with the violin. even at 90 he could produce that sound, but he was not getting the sound he was used to. And so he was playing, practicing, I maybe was reading, and he stopped and he put the violin in the case and shut the violin case and said in a very calm voice, Susan, I want you to take the violin home. and I want you to promise you'll take really good care of it, and I don't want you to bring it back. I'm finished with violin."

[10:54]

And he didn't seem angry, and he didn't seem frustrated, and he didn't seem outwardly sad. He was just finished, and he never said another word of it, about it, and I didn't either. But we continued to talk about music, and we continued to listen to music, and we continued to go to concerts and that was that. I also remember a friend of ours some years back who was diagnosed with cancer and she was 58 I think and I think she died at 60 and very early on after her diagnosis I remember she said to me I can already tell that there are people who have already got me buried. There are people who are, the way they look at me or the way they interact with me makes me feel really uncomfortable.

[12:03]

I don't like to be around those people because maybe this disease is going to kill me, but I'm very much alive right now and I plan to be alive as long as I can. And I just think that maybe as we get older and we confront some of those things, where this koan is pointing becomes more easily accessible. But I don't think we have to wait until we're in those situations to realize the value of this koan. I think we just have to put ourselves in the way of practicing this way that Suzuki Roshi is suggesting, paying attention to our actual practice, moment by moment, day by day.

[13:06]

So I'm going to read a little bit from this lecture on the Sandokai, and he's focusing on the very end of the Sandokai. What I want to talk about is the very last line, but I'm going to read the three lines that he read. And I'm reading the... You know, I didn't bring the book because the transcript is so... It's so raw and it's so alive in a way that's quite wonderful. The way that Suzuki Roshi used English is quite refreshing. So I'm going to read. It's slightly different, even the translation of the Song of Kai, than what we're used to reciting. The goal is neither far nor near. If you stick to the idea of good or bad, you'll be separated from the way by high mountains or big rivers. Seekers of the truth, don't spend your time in vain.

[14:16]

So that last line, seekers of the truth, don't spend your time in vain. I think we say, I respectfully urge you who study the mystery, do not spend your days and nights in vain. So Suzuki Roshi says, to pass day and night in vain does not mean only to goof off without doing anything. That is maybe one way of passing the day and night without doing anything. But what Sekito means is more profound. Even though you work very hard, Sometime you may be passing your day and valuable time without doing anything if you don't know what you're doing. Even though you work hard in Tassajara, you know, in work period, it does not mean you are, it does not always mean you are spending your time properly, doing something properly.

[15:25]

Hmm, what does it mean then? If you goof off, you're also, you know, wasting your time. Even though you work hard, maybe you are, you know, spending your time in vain. This may be a kind of koan for you. One thing you notice when you read the transcript is that just about every other line, there's a parentheses and it says, he laughs. And I've been reading these, several of these lectures over and over the last couple weeks, and it really struck me the other day, You know, he laughs a lot. And I thought, you know, our practice is really light. Zen has a kind of bad rap for being serious and stern and strict. But if we're able to move to that place that he's talking about, even for a few moments, and we taste what that jewel is like,

[16:30]

There's a lot of lightness there, and it seems so obvious in the transcripts, in the way that he laughs. It doesn't come across as like nervous laughter. That's kind of different, but just this lightness about, you know, this is just our lives, and let's enjoy our lives, and let's pay attention, and let's not trash ourselves. When we fall down, let's just stand back up, and be proud of that. So then he says, every day is a good day. This is a famous, you know, koan. Every day is a good day. It does not mean don't make complaint even though you have some difficulties. Even though it's hot, you shouldn't complain. Even though it's cold, you shouldn't complain. Whatever happened, you shouldn't complain. It does not mean something like that.

[17:32]

Every day is a good day. What it means is, don't spend your time in vain. I think most people are spending their time in vain. If he's saying, no, I'm always busy, then it's a sure sign that he's spending his time in vain. I think it was in one of the teas that someone started talking about busyness. And certainly in our culture, we can mostly probably all of us relate to busyness. And this person was saying that, you know, it's hard to commit to practice period because if I already have a busy schedule and I add more zazen and several events, then my life feels a little bit crazy. And that's certainly true. You know, but the beauty or the value of practice period is for us to try as best we can to put aside some of what we do in our busy lives as much as we can and then feel the effort of everyone doing that.

[18:51]

You know, that kind of collective community effort is quite wonderful and then to watch what happens when we're able to intensify practice in that way. I certainly have a lot of trouble with busyness, you know. Several pastimes that I enjoy and there's always, somebody else was saying, we live in the Bay Area and there's so much out there to take advantage of and so many things to do. So it's a great practice to try to Tear it down. A great challenge. He goes on, most people do things you know with some purpose, but even so, I don't think they're doing things with the proper understanding of their activity. When you do something with the usual purpose, which is based on some evaluation, or useful or useless, or good or bad, or valuable or less valuable,

[19:56]

That is, you know, not perfect understanding. You know, if you do things whether it is good or bad, successful or unsuccessful, because you feel you should do them, then that is real practice. Not because of Buddha, not because of yourself, or because of the truth, or because of, or for yourself, or for others. If you do things for the things, that is true way. It's kind of interesting if you do things for the things. What does that mean, do things for the things? Kind of means to me like no particular reason. And I think in our culture we have a lot of resistance to that idea of not having a reason to do that. Sometimes people, I hear people complain about some of our forms, not understanding why we do the forms that we do.

[21:01]

Later on in the lecture, I'm not going to read that part, but there's a kind of question back and forth between the students and himself, and someone brings that up, like, I want to understand why I'm doing it. And Suzuki Roshi basically says, just do it. And the student argues, of course, and Suzuki Roshi says it's because of your small-mindedness, your small-minded thinking that you want to know why. And if you can put that in something bigger, you know, if you can think of all the ancestors that came before us, you can just do it because it's what we do, then watch and see what happens. Then he says, hmm, I cannot explain so well. Maybe I shouldn't explain so much, and he laughs.

[22:04]

You shouldn't do things just because you feel good, or you shouldn't stop doing things just because you don't feel so good. Whether you feel good or bad, there's something which you should do. Unless, if you don't have this kind of feeling, if you don't understand this kind of feeling of doing things, you know, whether it is right or wrong, or good or bad, If you don't understand this kind of feeling, you are not yet started our way in its true sense. As I continue to study the Koan and read these lectures, and come to the classes, I noticed that I was starting to feel some fear. I guess fear arose around the idea of, okay, well, what if something really terrible happens in my life?

[23:17]

Like something much, much greater than I've ever experienced. Here I am talking about this koan, but how am I going to practice with that? And the thing that came to my mind was if something happened to our daughter and I thought, I just feel that I wouldn't be able to handle it, that I would just completely fall apart, that I would collapse. And then I thought, Well, the koan's not saying not to do that. The koan's not saying that once I believe the koan or once I taste what it's like to practice that way, that life will be rosy. And sometimes maybe we do need to fall apart. But the koan is saying that practice is always right there, right with us, available and holding even those times when we fall apart.

[24:38]

And I find that really comforting. I find that a great relief actually to know that underneath everything, Big Mind is right there, ready to support our practice. On the other hand, when My father was maybe about two or three weeks before he died. One day he said to me, Susan, are you going to fall apart when I die? And I said, absolutely not, Dad. I'm going to miss you a great deal, but I'm not going to fall apart. And he was so relieved you could see it in his face and his body, something he didn't have to worry about.

[25:46]

And I realized, you know, our practice, sometimes our practice is able to support the people around us who are falling apart. And so it's kind of a mix, isn't it? We have our fears or our disappointments or our anger whatever edge we have and we have our great effort and support that we're able to offer one another. And it's kind of like the way small mind and big mind work together hand in hand. He says, at Sekito's time, there were, you know, naturally, Zen Buddhism was very polemical.

[27:05]

The background of the teaching is always some discussion or kind of fight. Especially in Chinese Buddhism, you can see this kind of context in their teaching. There were many schools of Zen. Because they were involved in some kind of right teaching or wrong teaching, or traditional teaching or some heresy, they lost their main point of practice. So that's why Sekito says don't spend your time in vain sacrificing actual practice for some idealistic, you know, practice to attain some perfection of what kind of understanding is traditional understanding told by the sixth patriarch. Sometimes when I read this, I felt so much relief, like, oh, we're just this steady stream of people that do the same thing, fall down and stand up.

[28:06]

This divisive thinking has been going on forever. We're not so special. And it's kind of a relief to realize that. Without being, you know, caught by some idea, some selfish understanding or practice or teaching, to follow right practice is our way. I think we've been studying with Sojin on Thursday nights and I wanted to leave a little time to let people speak or ask questions, because in my mind's eye, there's really an overlap of the class and the koan, and I'd like to hear what you have to say.

[29:08]

Thank you very much. Sojin, you knew Suzuki Roshi. Maybe there's something you'd like to say Well, I appreciate your bringing up the fact that he was always laughing. I think that was contagious. And light buoyancy, you know, is one of the positive parameters. I don't know if you can cultivate it, but once you give up worrying too much, there it is. But I remember, you know, whenever I go to Tassajara, Every day I walk up the road to the horse pasture, which is steep. And when I get to the second switchback, I think, oh, now I have to go up that hill. And then when I think, oh, that's going to be so hard.

[30:09]

And then I think, why am I thinking this? Let go of that. Just be light and buoyant. And you just walk up. You know, very serious and very light-hearted. And sometimes both at the same time. You should take our practice seriously. But if you take it too seriously, you have a big problem. Ross. Thank you. You're welcome. I was taken by your father's comment that he was done to get the sound he wanted. And I was thinking about the courage that that took, because it was such an important thing to him.

[31:13]

And then I was thinking about Artie Shaw, who walked away from his clarinet playing at the peak of his career. And he could have continued on, but there was something that he just wanted to walk away from, all the hubbub around it or what have you. And we all have these aspirations and dreams in relationship and work and creativity. And then we reach a point where we're not getting the sound or the vision or the thought that we want. And I wonder if you could say a little bit about how do we discern between letting go of something with an upright feeling and kind of letting go or dropping something out of resistance or frustration and the various things that come up in that world. Well, that's certainly a good question for anybody that's contemplating retirement. I'll just use that as an example.

[32:13]

I work as a teacher and I'm not ready to retire, but I've worked with teachers who, in my opinion, should have retired and don't. And so the way I think about it is I don't want to hold on to the work when I know it's time to pass it on to the younger crowd. Yeah, it's kind of a meeting place of having finished, used up everything there is to use up in that activity and being ready for the next activity, I guess. I'm thinking about Sojin's comment that the mind stops us. I do a little bit of roller skating and I learned that when you turn your head, the body follows.

[33:17]

It's a trick to do a good turn. You look in the direction where you want to turn and that the mind is going to stop the body or or go the body, it became really provocative to me when someone said that. Because without the mind, the body just will go up the hill without being deterred. But also he said, I think, that he gave himself some advice, some little encouragement. He said to himself, oh, stop thinking that if I just... Oh, the mind, yeah, right, right, right. But our, yeah, our initial assessment. And the way he told it, he didn't belittle himself. Right. Which we often do if we make a mistake or we can't do something. That's kind of like the extra, isn't it? Yeah. So if we can give ourself encouragement, yeah.

[34:31]

So the mind can work both ways, right? Yeah, the mind can work both ways. Yes, I don't know your name. I'm John. Hi, John. I thank you for your talk. I just wanted to say about using time in vain, I have been busy doing a wonderful job delivering pizza. And every day I have the opportunity to face my own greed and ill will and aversion, whether I receive tips or whether the traffic is good, etc. And the beauty of that practice, though, is that I can see my aversion coming up and I'm not wasting my time pretending it's not there. And then I can deliver that pizza and go to the next guy and maybe I've recovered or not, and see my new aversion, or my new gratitude, depending on the situation, and recognize each moment, whether I am in aversion, or greed, or ill will, or otherwise carrying the Dharma, and not wasting my time thereby.

[35:42]

And it's wonderful to take that and pay attention to that. Thank you. Traffic is a challenging place to watch. how we stay in the activity. You know, I, for years, took my daughter to San Francisco to dance classes after school. And, you know, sometimes we would hit heavy traffic, and I really don't like that at all. She would just say, relax, Mom. You know, and that was like that little reminder. And I realized, oh, I'm spending time with her. We get stuck in traffic. I can just say, I can realize that, you know, and I can appreciate the time we have together because soon enough she'll be gone. But it's hard, yeah. My daughter said, where's your Zen now, Dad? Yeah.

[36:47]

Great question. What's the use of this mind that thinks and articulates and plans and does all these things? What's the use of this mind? I don't know. We're working hard at letting go of all these mental activities that get in the way of practicing this every moment. I think we're trying to befriend that mind, you know? Like some kind of juvenile delinquent.

[37:51]

Is that how you think of it? You're trying to provoke me. No, this is a real problem for me. I think one thing struck me the other night at the class is like, it's not going to go away, right? And so we have some choices about how to work with it. And, you know, maybe it's kind of like a neighbor that isn't your favorite neighbor and you know is not going to go away. You don't have anything very positive to say about that. Well, I just think that there's a... You're talking about the ego.

[38:53]

You're talking about Manas, right? You're talking about the ego. Well, I guess so. you know, we can develop a kind of relationship with the ego such that maybe the ego is afraid that we're going to move into that realm of living our actual lives and leave the ego behind. You know, so it fights hard and it's tricky And it's always trying to talk us out of those ways that we're moving into that realm. So I just think we have to find some way to befriend it. To talk to it.

[39:59]

You know, because When Big Mind is working, Manas moves into wisdom. Somehow we have to help Manas realize that Manas is included. What do you think? How do you work with it? Well, when there's that painful struggle, I think your advice is really helpful. What caused me to ask this question is, you know, I get paid for being a thinker. So that's something I have as a continual. So that's one good thing at least. And even the thinker needs a rest.

[41:06]

Even the thinker needs a rest. Peter. This is a very interesting topic. I'm starting to think that maybe Manas is really trying to take good care of us and the whole world. the importance that develops. It's kind of like that neighbor you were talking about, really trying to watch out for things and take care of things, but somehow it's just getting in the way. So somehow it's convinced of their own importance in a way that's kind of, starts to feel to you like overbearing. How do you confront that and have some clarity? Maybe we can just say thank you. Thanks, but no thanks.

[42:08]

Yes, is it Hannah? It is. What bubbled up for me when you asked that question was it's the price we pay for consciousness. But I also really like this idea that that if we shift it into wisdom, it can be a friendly companion of our consciousness. It seems like it's inclusive that the wisdom includes, it hasn't pushed moths away. Inclusive. you know, embraces it, or holds it, or however, however you can envision it.

[43:12]

It's not like it's thrown it away, but it's, it keeps it within. So in that way, it maybe calms it down. Maybe you could say something more. Is my thought wrong thought? And one of the parents, one of the factors of the April attack wasn't thinking. So there's nothing wrong with thinking. What's your problem? Just do it. Correct me. Four, nine, and eight. Four, nine, and eight. Dean? You know, at first when you started talking, you were talking about when we practice, and several times you said, Suzuki Roku said, when we practice, and I started thinking about, but we also practice with small mind, and we practice with big mind, and small mind

[44:25]

Like when I decide I'm going to have a pint of ice cream for dinner, that's a small mind. And then if I decide I'm going to have vegetables, I could kind of see that as a big mind. And it's not that. And it's kind of like both of them have the consequences. And both of them, there's fallout from each one. And I'm going to live with the fallout from either one. And it's kind of like, am I going to choose the fallout from eating a pint of ice cream? or the fallout from vegetables. And I think that when Linda said that, well, I'm thinking and I'm getting caught in this stuff, I'm still practicing with just a small mind and the consequences are going to be hell. And it's that it's still there. And maybe that's the thing is that it's helpful because I'm still practicing. It's just that I've learned to be aware that, yeah, you're going to do this and there's going to be a price. that sort of Manas and wisdom and thing.

[45:28]

Is that kinda, sorta? I mean, I'm still eating when I'm eating ice cream as well as when I'm eating vegetables. I'm still practicing, right? What comes to mind is what Suzuki Roshi says about the attitude. Whatever your attitude is about what we're doing in the actual moment, that's what's most important. If I make a mistake or I do something unwholesome or I offend you in some way, then I'm caught by small mind. But then if I feel bad about it or reflect or review what I've done and even apologize, then big mind has moved in. We're always going back and forth. We're not getting one or dropping the other.

[46:29]

We're moving. And there was a line where he said, as soon as you're already reflecting about your wrong deed, then you're in that next actual moment and what you've done or said is over. So move on. And when I read that, it made me just realize how easy it is for us to hang on to whatever it is we're hanging on to. And his point is that actual practice is realizing that practice is continuous. And I see the striker is up. so it's probably time to stop. And thank you all very much.

[47:27]

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