Well, the question arises from time to time. What does it mean to save all beings or to save sentient beings? And people have different ideas about it. And often it comes up in the context of social action. When it comes up in the context of social action, then people start counting beans. start counting the number of folks who need to be saved.

[01:05]

And then there's this overwhelming kind of head scratching. You know, how can I save all these sentient beings, innumerable, countless sentient beings? And so then it looks like, well, this is a kind of crazy concept or impossible idea. So people stop thinking about it. Or when it comes up, they kind of are puzzled and maybe start doubting in some way. So if you look at saving all beings as something that I am going to do for those out there, we create a kind of problem for ourself, a kind of dualistic problem

[02:25]

So when we try to apply this vow to social action, it can be very confusing. I think that social action is an expression of this vow, but it doesn't It's not complete, and it doesn't take into account the fundamental meaning of the vow. So, social action, of course, is extremely necessary. But we need to get a deep understanding of what it means to save all sentient beings, as this is the fundamental vow of Bodhisattva.

[03:46]

But there are four vows. And the four, of course, are all interrelated to save all sentient beings, to give up delusion and attachment to desire, and to enter the Dharma doors and to become one with the way. So, actually, the three, the two, three, and four are the how-to-do of one. One expresses the intention, and two, three, and four

[04:53]

express how you do it in general terms. And, of course, the Four Vows are a response to the Four Noble Truths, as we know. So the response is to save them or awaken with them. We say awaken with because to save them sounds overwhelmingly self-centered maybe or egotistic But that's partly because we don't understand exactly the meaning of the vows that we say, awaken with them.

[06:04]

Although awaken with them is fine, but save them is also fine. The reason beings are suffering is through the delusion of attachment to desire. So we vow to get rid of delusion, this kind of delusion. Let go of this kind of delusion. and of attachment to desire, to inordinate desire. Not all desires. You can't live without some desire, but inordinate desire. Greed, in other words. And, of course, the first two truths state the problem.

[07:06]

And the second truth states the cure. And so the third of the truths is that there is a way to not escape, but get out of suffering. deal with suffering. And so the response is to enter all the various Dharma doors of reality. And then the fourth truth says, and the way to go is like this. So the response to that is to be one with the Dharma, be one with Buddha.

[08:09]

So the four truths and the four vows echo each other. But what does it mean to save all beings? on Eno in the Platform Sutra, talks about the vows and what it means. So I'll read you just this short part. He says, learn it, friends, as you have repented of your transgressions and have reformed. The first part is about The preceding part is about repentance.

[09:14]

I now teach you how to take the four universal vows. All of you should listen attentively. We vow to save countless living beings of our own minds. We vow to put an end to the limitless kleshas, klesha means defilement, of our own minds. Dharma doors of our own nature, and we vow to attain the supreme Buddhahood of our own nature. Learned friends, is it not the idea of the whole assembly that the vow is taken to save countless living beings? If so, how can you save them? As even I myself, Huy Nung, do not save them. Learned friends, speaking of the living beings in our own minds, who are they? They are what we call the erroneous and deluded mind, the deceptive and false mind, the evil mind, the envious and jealous mind, and the wicked and poisonous mind.

[10:25]

All these minds are living beings. Each of them should be self-delivered by one's own nature, and this is true deliverance. What is self-deliverance by self-nature? It means that all living beings holding heterodox views, as well as passionate, ignorant, and stupid beings, are to be delivered by correct views. Once they hold correct views, they use prashna wisdom to destroy ignorant, stupid, deluded, and false beings, so that each of them can be self-delivered. The heterodox is to be delivered by the orthodox, the deluded by the awakened, the ignorant by the wise, and the evil by the good. And deliverance in this manner is true deliverance. So that's the way he expresses saving. As we know,

[11:29]

Each one of us has to save ourselves, and no one can really save us. Even though we do good works in the world, and we fix things, once things are fixed, if the root of the problem is not fixed, then the problem just begins again. It's like cutting off grass. If you don't take out the root, the grass just grows stronger each time. Although, it's important to fix things. When the faucet leaks, you have to fix it. Then you can think about, well, is there something wrong with the root of this faucet?

[12:35]

When something comes up, you have to take care of it. And so people are in a constant mode of crisis. Constant, critical mode of crisis all over the world. And we're constantly responding to crises all over the world. And when we think about how are we going to deal with all this, it's really overwhelming. How are we going to deal with all the stuff that constantly comes up? When one fire is put out, another fire starts. So you do something over here, something's going on over there. we have to continually respond. And people don't have time, actually, to get to the root of things.

[13:44]

Human beings only live so long. It's actually a kind of short lifespan. So, my feeling is that we don't live long enough to be able to actually change things significantly as we could if we lived longer. Say maybe we lived 500 years. We'd have plenty of time to figure it out and deal with it. But we're always acting in an expedient manner because we don't live so long. And our wisdom doesn't have a chance to mature for most people. But, nevertheless, if we understand this, that to really make changes, to really save beings in a fundamental way, beings have to be educated and trained and understand what makes

[15:06]

You know, we build more and more jails, more and more prisons. Pretty soon, more people will be in prison than are out of prison. So the prisons will be for the people who don't commit the crimes. They can be safe and just trade places. No, but truly, we just keep building and we do not get at the root of what the problem is. It's really not only sad but unbelievable that it's so hard to focus on and deal with the root of the problem, the problems. So anyway, society has always been this way. We say 20th century now, but it's always been this way, only on a different scale.

[16:17]

Because there's so many people in the world closer together, we have more ferocious kinds of problems. But it's always been like this. So even though it may not be a winning battle, There's nothing to do, but if you understand what saving beings is, then there's no other alternative but to make the effort without being attached to any results. So, sometimes people wonder, they kind of doubt or Zen, and wonder why we put so much time in sitting Zazen.

[17:19]

And it looks like escaping from the world, escaping from solving the immediate problems that are continually arising. That's a good question. Then he talks about the second vow. He says, speaking of the vow to put an end to limitless kleshas or defilements, this is the use of the prajna wisdom of one's own nature to eradicate all erroneous and false thinking of the mind. That's kind of a very simple statement. To eliminate kleshas means kleshas are defilements caused by greed, ill will and delusion.

[18:30]

So that's why it's put in a sense of desires. We have a desire to kill and we have a desire to grasp things. In our delusion we see everything as outside of ourselves. So we have ethnic cleansing and chauvinistic attachments. And so the third vow is speaking of the vow to study and learn endless Dharma doors. Self-perception of one's own nature and unceasing practice of the correct Dharma are necessary. This is called true study and true learning.

[19:36]

So Dharma doors It doesn't necessarily mean to study. This is usually translated as to study all the various Buddhist texts. That's not what it means. It means to enter the Dharma door of reality through zazen or practice, which includes some study, but really to enter the Dharma door living the Dharma through practice and zazen. And speaking of the vow to attain supreme Buddhahood, we should, with humility on all occasions, practice the true and correct Dharma by discarding both ignorance and enlightenment, and should constantly give rise to wisdom to eliminate both

[20:38]

real and unreal, or true and false. What he means here in this translation is eliminating the duality of real and unreal, true and false, and ignorance and enlightenment. All this will lead to perception of the Buddha nature. This is the achievement of attaining Buddhahood You should always bear in mind the practice of this Dharma with the power of vows. So, it's interesting, he talks about, when he talks about saving sentient beings, saving the sentient beings of our own mind, the deluded mind, the greedy mind, the angry mind, the jealous mind, the envious mind.

[21:43]

How do we stop so-called evil in the world? It's a big question. How do you get at the root? How do you keep it from coming up again? If you can't keep it from coming up in yourself, then how can you keep it from coming up in the world? So, although it's important to take care of whatever comes up, various expedient crises, It's also important to make an effort to practice with yourself, because this is the only place it's going to happen.

[22:47]

And when we are able to do that ourself, then we can influence the world. You can influence the world even before that happens. That's true too. We don't have to be completely enlightened in order to have that influence. Just our practice itself has that influence on us. If social action is our practice, then through the influence of your practice, your social action will be much more effective. So anyway, we all know that if we want peace, whatever that means, then we have to become that ourself.

[24:05]

Buddha's way, the Buddha way, we have to become it. So these four vows are very important, and understanding them is very important. And each one is a kind of koan for us. Saving beings in the temporal sense is one side, but saving beings in the absolute sense is the other side. We may make people feel more comfortable in some way, but that's not necessarily salvation. So Buddhadharma, Buddhism is, in order to fully understand and penetrate what Buddhism is, you have to realize that saving or salvation is at the central point.

[25:34]

And often we don't think that far. And we just kind of, because of our ordinary everyday practice, But a worldly way has to penetrate beyond just a worldly way. And the way of big mind or emptiness has to include a worldly way. If we just stick to one side, there's no way of saving. So, saving has to be done on this moment, right now.

[26:55]

And although we are concerned with all beings, the salvation has to be here. To deal with basic kleshas, This is a very important word in Buddhadharma, is klesha, defilements. And although we don't want to get hooked on good and bad, there are definitely hindrances to enlightenment. to realizing enlightenment, to be able to see through our kleshas and to both accept them and to realize what they are, and to realize how they hinder us

[28:18]

What specifically do you mean? Well, kleshas are greed, ill will, delusions. Those, basically, those are the categories of kleshas. And then you have all the unwholesome dharmas, which fall under the Well, unwhole. In other words, dharmas which tend to separate from wholeness to create dualistic thinking. Such as? Such as anger. Anger is a separator. And discrimination is a divider.

[29:57]

That's what discrimination means. Then there are the various forms of anger, rage, and down the line the various aspects. And all of these are defilements. And there are various aspects of greed, which are defilements or kleshas. So it's good for, if you're studying the Dharma, this is basic Buddhism. to study what are also known as sub-dogmas. And kleshas cause suffering for ourselves and others and create wars and

[31:12]

Or that some of us don't like. Some people love war. Some people don't care about pollution. Some people, you know, don't care who kills who. And they keep supplying people with more stuff to deal with. Yeah. In the latest issue of Turning Wheel, there are two articles about not killing, which is another way to talk about saving. Reb has an article about not killing and Thich Nhat Hanh does also. And Reb seemed to be coming from the more absolute point of view, that not killing means just not being before, not being after, just being present. And Thich Nhat Hanh says that if you are not actually doing something in the world about not killing, that you are participating in killing.

[32:28]

So I wonder if you could comment. Well, we should always be doing something in the world about not killing. All the time. But it depends on what degree, you know, or what kind of activity you're talking about. Well, it's pretty clear to me that Tape.com is talking definitely about social action. It's usually when life is coming. But if you are not engaged actively in some kind of social action, that you are contributing to the problem. Well, by ignoring something, it's a kind of way of contributing toward that. So social action, yeah, it's important. It's an expression of understanding.

[33:33]

But I haven't read either one of the articles. through social action, it's a practice. And you can practice letting go of the defilements through social action. And Thich Nhat Hanh also says if you are not letting go of the kleshas through social action, then your social action

[34:40]

doesn't have the same meaning for it. So, social action can be a vehicle. It's not just a selfish thing, you know, that it's a vehicle for dealing with equations. But through social action and as a practice to deal with your own kleshas, you're actually saving beings. The way I read it is that it not only is... I read it as Thich Nhat Hanh is putting it, and it's a very brief article by him, so... is that not only is social action a practice, but if you are practicing the Dharma, it is a necessity. Well, that's okay. that, because it sounds like he's telling someone what to do, but I think when people are working on themselves, they need to know what they need to do to work on these things.

[36:00]

Well, it's a strong statement. I found it strong. The other problem is, where do you draw the line about what's social action and what's not social action? Is raising children social action or not? And who's going to decide? Can you contribute money to various worthy causes, and may that be considered social action? put your green energy rather than your actual powers of your day? I wonder. Well, just as an extreme, the Spanish inquisitors thought they were performing positive social actions.

[37:02]

You know? Well, I'm dead beyond a dead guy's ethnic cleansing. That's true. But I think that's getting a little far out. I don't know if it is that far. I think somehow one of the hinges around all this is that part where we divide self from others so clearly and we forget. Somehow I think that it really has to get back to that I'm not just me, I'm not really just myself, or else we fall into a pattern of noblesse oblige and having the right answer, or giving out of our superior position in social action. And I think that's where the whole business about the two points have to come together, that you really have to be in that moment enough to know that you're not that separate from

[38:08]

others in order to be part of social action in a good way? Or else, at some minute level, it leads to the Spanish Inquisition. Does that make any sense? It seems to me that if you think about social action, you think about doing things in the world, interacting with other people, moving objects around, and I think that the possibility of getting... I mean, I think that we can agitate what's going on by being, say, physically active or, quote, verbally active. We can certainly stir up the pump, but whether that's going to... whether that is ultimately going to save beings, I think, has to do with what we are actually doing, because if it is just a form of our greed or hate or delusion, in my opinion, it will be agitation, but it won't be moving anything towards salvation or saving.

[39:36]

in acting, taking action, I think it's important too, that the wellspring or what is actually happening inside is not about a minute, I feel that that's definitely, if it's motivated by anger, it's not going to have a positive result. I'd like to unite with Rebecca's definition there.

[40:52]

differ a little bit with what I hear, the summation of Thich Nhat Hanh's, I haven't read the piece so I don't know, but it sounds a little bit too much like cause and a measurable, identifiable list of good deeds, which is the opposite to me, it seems, of what our practice is, and too close to what the conquistadors did. A culture here is, a culture, the Puritan tradition here is one of good works manifesting themselves. Actually, what our practice here is to work as a fool and to measure ourselves, ourselves. And we're really the only ones who know whether we're giving or not. And that is giving until it hurts. And there's no one who can look at our checks that we might write or the reasons why we might go to a demonstration or why we might get on a phone tree.

[42:04]

There's just no one who can measure whether that's giving or not except us. And I think what we do in this practice So while I certainly respect so much what Thich Nhat Hanh has done, and if I understand him perhaps to be prodding us to get off of our naval gazing we might be engaged in, I don't think that's what we're engaged in here. Well, thank you for your talk.

[43:07]

I kind of disagree with what you said about if we live 500 years we'd have more of a chance to affect change. And I know in my case that probably wouldn't be true. I'd probably wait until the 400th year to get this age. I think we all have tremendous potential to affect change in our everyday life and in our lives in general. I mean, if we look at Suzuki Roshi, he had a profound effect on all of us, whether we met him or not. And he wasn't even here very long in this country. And I think, really, for me, when I look at things, I have not been too attached to the results. If I start thinking about what I can achieve, then it becomes problematic. And also about the idea that there's some problem that needs to be fixed. I really disagree with that way of looking at the world, that there's something wrong with it and we need to fix it.

[44:13]

I think that's a very modern way of looking at it, certainly the way therapy tends to look at it, that there's something wrong that needs to be fixed. I think there's a whole different way of looking at things. Kierkegaard said that life is not a problem to be solved, it is a mystery to be lived. And I think it's a very radically different approach than what we have now. And I feel that on some level, sitting Zazen is not about fixing problems. I'm not sure what it is, but for me it's not about fixing problems. And I feel that social action can take place on a whole variety of levels. The Dalai Lama talks about universal human respect. And it seems to me that if we just, all of us, worked on that aspect of our lives, especially myself, I know I could do that a lot more too, that things would improve dramatically. And it doesn't have to be this major undertaking that we all have the potential to do a vast lot of good in our daily life without having to go someplace to, you know, undertake drastic social change.

[45:27]

And for myself, I find that when I'm really working with people, I wouldn't call it saving them, because that to me presents some kind of separation. But when I'm really working with people, there's such an intense exchange going on, such a wonderful exchange going on, that it benefits me every bit as much as it does, I'm sure, the other person. The separation between myself and the other person really kind of disappears when there's a real exchange. Thank you.

[46:07]

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