Unknown Date, Serial 00168, Side B

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BZ-00168B
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Two talks on tape - side B is unidentified Mel talk

Transcript: 

Well, the first thing is, come on in. Come on in. Come in. Well, someone turned it off last night. Adam? Is Adam home? He left town. I didn't turn it off last night.

[01:05]

Somebody turned it off and turned off a number of buttons I'm not familiar with. I said, Alan set up so there's just one button to turn. Ah, that's right. Amy knows. Thanks, Amy. I'll just give you a little trivia to begin with. He came out of it being gay. That was the first part. And the last part of the article was, he's not sure if he's still a Republican.

[02:07]

And that's as far as we're going to take it. What can you do for me? What can we do for you? And this morning I have an answer. And the answer is, I would like positive reinforcement instead of negative enforcement. I would like to hear you say, I'm glad to know that you're taking care of yourself.

[03:10]

That's what would help me the most. I really felt a kind of pain in my chest when he left last night because I felt that he weren't crediting me with taking care of myself. I swear that's true. Yes. I totally believe you will. Thank you very much. Good. I would like to say I totally believe you are. I'm sorry I wanted to call you last night, but I do trust that you take care of yourself. I had to speak up. I apologize. I think you probably will take care of yourself.

[04:19]

I don't really feel it's any of my business. But if you want to go for a walk sometime. That would be very great. Let's do that. Here, here. See? Okay. I just want to share that the steps you have taken sounded to me pretty balanced and reasonable all the way through. Well, the three things were diet, exercise, and rest. So that's what I've been doing. I come late because I'm late. Good job! I took a good long walk today. I think I'll be doing that anyway, before coming to God's end. And there's also, I don't want to be an apologist, but the reason that I wasn't thinking about this problem as a heart problem was because I had had an arm problem and I was treating it as an arm problem and I had seen my doctor

[06:12]

just the day before. And we talked about, or a few days before, we talked about it as terminitis and taking some anti-inflammatory medicine, right? So that's what I was thinking about when this was going on. That's why I didn't flag it as something else until it was really extreme. But I was taken care of. And I wasn't just kind of reflecting. Since it's not possible to finish all this, I'll just talk about some of these parts that I think are highlights of what Dogen is talking about.

[07:30]

In section number 7, which is called, Those who long to leave the world and practice Buddhadharma should study Zen. I think leave the world is a good translation. Find emancipation, I think, may be a better way to express that. Leave the world sounds like escape. Emancipation sounds like freedom. And I think that's what Dogen's expressing, one who longs for freedom. world and people. They just weren't read. So then, he talks about, again, about not depending on academic teaching, but practicing.

[08:42]

So then he comes to the part where he says, when you first enter the gate to study the Buddha way, listen to the teacher's instruction and practice accordingly. When you do that, there is something you should know. Dharma turns you and you turn Dharma. When you turn Dharma, you are leading and Dharma is following. On the other hand, when Dharma turns you, Dharma is leading and you are following. Buddha Dharma originally has these two modes, but those who are not true heirs have never understood it, unless they are petro-monks. He's talking to monks. They scarcely have heard of it. Without knowing this key, you cannot yet judge how to study the Way. How could you determine the correct from the mistaken? turning and being turned by the Dharma, turning the Dharma and being turned by the Dharma.

[09:54]

Originally, I think this comes from the Sixth Patriarch's Platform Sutra, where Phat I've read it a thousand times, I know it by heart, but I still don't, can't quite grasp its meaning. I don't get its meaning. And there's something about the name Phat Tat that is a play on words, but I can't remember what that is. The name is Phat Tat, which I think maybe means something like good understanding. But your understanding is still upside down.

[11:01]

You are being turned around by the Lotus Sutra instead of turning the Lotus Sutra. You are being turned around by the Lotus Sutra. In other words, the stuff that you have in your head is turning you around. Every time you come around to the place where you should enter, you go past it. I see this so much in people. Our head is driving our practice. Our ideas are driving our practice. Our concepts about Buddhism are driving our practice. But every time you come around to what to do, you miss the point. You miss the gate. Dogen, in his fascicle, in which he talks about this, and he says, that it's Hokkei Tenpokkei.

[12:10]

Hokkei is Lotus Sutra. Hokkei Tenpokkei. Dharma blossom turning Dharma blossom. Hokkei Tenpokkei. Dogen quotes Kuinon's words, when the mind is deluded, it is turned by the Dharma blossom. When the mind is enlightened, it turns the Dharma blossom. Then Dogen says, if you fully practice this, Dharma blossom turns Dharma blossom. Dharma blossom turns Dharma blossom. When one is too attached to this, to the head, to learning, to concepts about Dharma and Buddhism, and not really depending on practice, we get all these ideas about

[13:24]

Emptiness and form and self and no self. These concepts, we try to apply them to our practice. When you start to apply these ideas to your practice, you get off. Then the Dharma blossom is turning you. You have to realize that emptiness is not a graspable thing. You should not strive for emptiness in your practice, or in zazen. You should not strive to feel as if there's no self in zazen. You should just let go of all these ideas. These ideas follow understanding. But if you try to create some kind of practice based on that understanding, on those ideas, then you're just creating more graven images.

[14:39]

Carving your own dragon, so to speak. Just carving your own dragon. Surya Rishi says, that's what most of you are doing, is carving your own dragon. When Joshu said to a monk, who was in a similar position, he says, you were turned around by the 24 hours. Whereas, I turn in the 24 hours. But Dogon says, to turn and be turned. It's not wrong to study the Lotus Sutra and to let the Lotus Sutra turn you, but you also have to turn the Lotus Sutra. In other words, you have to write the Sutra through your practice.

[15:49]

Each one of us, through our practice, is writing the Lotus Sutra, the Dharma Blossom Sutra. The Dharma Blossom Sutra is our practice. And when you study, that's fine, because it verifies practice. But to try and chisel out some practice from an idea doesn't work. So practice is letting go. There is also a vow. Vow to... I think it's intention.

[17:12]

So intention is something very positive. And lead to. And should be there in all of your activity. And should be there in every moment of Zazen. It's intention. At the same time, letting go is also there in every moment of Zazen. So these are the two aspects, the positive and the negative, so to speak, the plus and the minus of the Veda, both of the Veda. The plus connects with the minus, and the minus connects with the plus, and that makes your practice go around. strive to do anything.

[18:19]

Sometimes we have this idea of non-striving. But non-striving doesn't mean that you don't strive. You should, especially when you begin to practice, you should strive as hard as you can. And within that striving is letting go. It's not like you take away striving and you have let it go, to put all of your, to be totally present in your whole body and mind, turning the dharma. And then the dharma turns you. Emptiness turns form and form turns emptiness. Dharma blossom turns Dharma blossom.

[19:24]

No self doesn't mean that there's nothing there. It's just that what is there is not itself. And then at the end, Dogen says something very similar. In the last section he says, immediately hitting the mark, or sitting down right here,

[20:51]

There are two ways to penetrate body and mind. Studying with a teacher, to hear the teaching, and devotedly sitting zazen. Listening to the teaching opens up your conscious mind, while sitting zazen is concerned with practice enlightenment. Therefore, if you neglect either of these when entering the Buddha way, it's hard to hit the mark. Everyone has a body and mind. OK, who is this everyone? Someone said last night, well, when you felt pain or anxiety, who was feeling that? Everyone has a body and mind. In activity and in appearance, its function is either leading or following. or low.

[22:03]

This says courageous or cowardly, but I would say high-spirited or low-spirited. High-spirited or low-spirited. To realize Buddha immediately, this body and mind is to hit the mark. To realize Buddha immediately with this body and mind is to hit the mark. Without changing your usual body and mind, just to follow Buddha's realization is called immediate. It's called hitting the mark. So it doesn't mean that you should get rid of your body and mind in order to understand or experience no mind or no self. One has to experience to experience no-mind with this mind.

[23:06]

Going beyond mind, body and mind. Dropping body and mind means to be one with body and mind. This is what's otherness. We can't get rid of this body and mind. While we're here, We have to take care of this body and mind. Become one with this body and mind. Live life fully, moment by moment. This is Doge's understanding of Buddha Dharma. On each moment, to be totally one with your activity. Not escaping, but facing life and death on each moment. where the death happens momentarily. That's hitting the mark.

[24:10]

Just, are we dead or alive? Somebody said, we're all dead. But that's true. Because we are alive, we're dead. And because we're dead, we're alive. There's nothing to avoid. Then he says, to follow Buddha completely means you do not have your old ways. Old ways means half-baked opinions, one-sided views. To hit the mark completely means to have no new nest in which to settle.

[25:20]

So this is called home leaving. It doesn't mean you have to go somewhere. It just means there's no place to settle except here. Right here in this body and mind. What is this body and mind? What is birth and death? Back here, Dongyin says, talks about mu. He says, a monk asked Zhaozhou, does a dog have the Buddha nature or not? Zhaozhou replied, mu. Actually, it's a quote. Beyond this word, Wu, can you measure anything or grasp anything? There is entirely nothing to hold on to.

[26:24]

Please try releasing your hold, and releasing your hold, observe. What is body and mind? What is conduct? What is birth and death? What is Buddhadharma? What are the laws of the world? What in the end are mountains, rivers, earth, human beings, animals, and houses. When you observe thoroughly, it follows that the two aspects of motion and stillness do not arise at all. Though motion and stillness do not arise, things are not fixed. People do not realize this. Those who lose track of it are many. You who study the way will come to awakening in the course of study. Even when you complete the way, you should not stop. He says, this is my prayer indeed.

[27:28]

Motion and stillness do not arise. When you get to the bottom of Zazen, you will experience this. That motion and stillness do not arise. Even though motion and stillness do not arise, it does not mean that things are fixed. There is still motion. When you get to the bottom of motion, you'll find stillness. When you get to the bottom of stillness, you will find motion. When you get to the bottom of the stillness of Izzat,

[28:36]

you'll find that it's. Basically, there's not something to worry about. There are two kinds of anxiety. One is about events in our lives. What is birth and death?

[30:19]

Knocking on the coffin. Dead or alive? I won't say. I won't say. That's a thought. among the epitome or convinced writers who came up or just don't claim. In other words, when is intention or vow or effort not contrivance?

[32:05]

Ordinary is built into it. We have to define the word. It depends on what you mean by the word ordinary. Ordinary means non-dual. That's ordinary mind. Ordinary mind is the mind of enlightenment. That's not our usual mind. Our usual mind is the mind of duality and defilement and birth and death. Duality means dividing into birth and death. Ordinary mind means the oneness. Logically, you can describe and see if there is actually no birth and death.

[33:09]

You can describe logically the process of transformation in which you can see there is no birth and death. The only reason that we talk about it as birth and death is because it pertains to me. But when you look at a flower, You don't necessarily think about it in terms of birth and death. The flower grows up and you see the process. And then the flower puts out its seeds and accomplishes its tasks and fades. And human beings are the same. You can call it birth and death. But it's the process which is continuously moving. The elements of a human being, or of anything, are continually combining and recombining and producing according to their content.

[34:19]

So, each one of us is a continuation of the whole human race. And even when there is no more human race, there's still life itself. So what is it that you relate to? It's yourself. What is myself? Is it just this body, mind? Consciousness? If you see yourself as universal activity, then you realize that there's no birth and death. The only birth and death is the birth and death of my self, or my ego. That's what is born and dies.

[35:25]

The rest is just transformation of elements. But you become very attached to these elements. And that's okay, but we should thank them. We should appreciate them, promote them, love them, but not too much. What we love is life itself. I remember one time when I was very young and I was about And my grandfather was still alive. And I said to him, you know, I love bananas. And he said, you don't love bananas. You should only love your mother and father. And I really invented that.

[36:31]

Because I thought, I can love my mother and father, and I can love bananas, too. I can't see who's back there, but it's the farthest person in the room. It's Linda. My rational mind understands about not plenty. It's like packing this arm away.

[37:34]

And that's just something else. Right. Let go without trying to let go. Letting go means opening up. It doesn't mean trying to get rid of something. It simply means to be open and spacious. Letting go means to be open and spacious. and to allow yourself to encompass everything. That's what letting go is. Big mind. Letting go means allowing big mind to dominate, rather than small mind. Small mind is narrow and non-inclusive. So letting go is simply opening up. That's the key.

[38:41]

That's the key to zazen. As long as you remain narrow, as long as you think you have limits, then you have problem. Thank you. I think that's really what keeps this action going. What am I keeping away? That's right. What am I protecting? So the key to self is, what am I protecting? And then try and find that part that you're protecting. See if you can find the self that you're protecting. Yesterday you said, I think you said, that the most important thing you can do in your life is prepare for your physical death. Is that true? I don't know if I said it that way.

[39:41]

That's what it sounded like to me. I didn't say that. I didn't say that. Maybe that's what I said. Well, maybe that's not what you meant. Well, it didn't prepare in a way. There are two kinds of preparation. One is a monk has no possessions except They have a little carrying box, and in the box is a sutra and enough money for their burial, or for their funeral. That's kind of preparation. You should always carry enough money for your funeral so that we won't be a burden on people when you die. But, yes, it is preparing to die. That's right. I did say that. Because if you don't prepare for it, you're going to have to let go anyway.

[40:50]

You're going to be terrified. But the question is, so what? What's wrong with being terrified for a real while? Why is it so important? Whatever works. It will work for all of us either way. Yeah, that's right. It's not a matter of whether you're terrified at the end or not. It's a matter of how do you live your life in reality? And if you understand or have an understanding of death, it determines how you live your life. So a lot of people, they get to a certain age, right? And they realize, hey, I'm 50 or 60. And I'm going the other way now. Before you get to a certain age, you think you're going up. And then you get there, and you think, oh, now I'm going down.

[41:56]

You think you're immortal up to this point. Oh, my goodness, I'm sorry. I don't know where that's going. It's different. It's different. And a lot of people just give up. They don't know what to do. It's like retirement. Retirement is a very difficult place to be, because you've lived your life according to a certain rhythm and so forth, and then you think you're going to have a good time, but you're not going to do that anymore. And then when you do that, you realize that, not everybody, but many people, that they no longer have a rhythm for their life. They don't know what to do, and they're just going to die. They're just heading off that way. and they don't know how to handle themselves or what their life is about. It's called some kind of life crisis. So, to know and think about and try to understand what

[43:05]

It's for life. It's for life. That's right. That's right. Because after you die, you don't have to worry about it anymore. It's about how to live your life. That's all it's about. This is the place where we live our life. The other place is where we live our death. You know? And within this life is both life and death. On each moment. Not like they're two things. They're just two sides of the moon. The dark side and the light side. But the moon is round. Charles, Charlie. What do you think of the idea that Christians talk about life being preparation for afterlife? Yes. But what do you think about the idea that when you're dead, then you just have to start practicing in the realm of the dead? Whatever that is. You can think in terms of life and you can think in terms of death in many ways.

[44:25]

I remember once I was walking in a park in San Francisco and I met an elderly woman and we started talking and she said, you know, Christianity is just a fairy tale about heaven and hell and all that. That always stuck with me. I would think about it from time to time. Fairytales. And I do think most religions have fairytales, are fairytales. But that's okay. I think if people believe in their fairytales, they're awesome. And, you know, we try to get to the truth and to reality. Buddhism tries to get to the truth and reality. But Buddhism has its own fairy tale. And a Buddhist fairy tale is that we keep being reborn. And in many different ways, it's expressed.

[45:31]

But there is a logic to it. And the logic is that energy doesn't get lost, and species keep reproducing their kind, and there is a circularity to life. Maybe basically there's a circularity to life instead of just this, you know. And there are heavens and hells in mythology, you know. But there's still a basic sanity or reasonableness, which is the circularity of energy. And in fact, a lot of fairy tales are built on that circularity of energy. But if you just look at the circularity of energy, I think that there's some real truth in that, and that can be carried, studied in many ways, continuously studied. Anyway, for people who believe in fairy tales, it's fine, as long as they don't try to make everybody else believe in fairy tales.

[46:39]

It gives you comfort in your life. You don't believe there's a heaven. And many people have been comforted that way. So I don't criticize those fairy tales. If you want to believe them, go ahead. If it, you know, makes you feel comfortable about your life. Naomi? Is it a fairy tale? Is it hitting the mark? I think that some Zen masters have done that. I think everybody does. But I think that's hitting the mark. It's definitely hitting the mark. It's being so aware of what's going on in your life and facing it squarely and not being afraid.

[47:43]

Or if there is fear, not being dominated by the fear. I think Suzuki Roshi, I know, Suzuki Roshi chose the time of his death. He had taken a bath for three months, or three weeks. It was a long time. And he said, I want to take a bath now. We took a bath, and he felt really good. And he went back to bed. He had two weeks to sit up, which I think he would have done if he hadn't been strong enough. And the first period of cesarean, he died. And then all we could do was sit seven days. And I know he did that. Yes, just back on the issue of these stories.

[48:58]

What? The issue of these stories, fairy tales, explanations, attachment to the self. Those aren't fairy tales. No. Okay. Let me say, let me expand on what you're saying. The circuit, you were speaking of the circularity of energy as an underlying truth behind fairy tales? No, not behind fairy tales. Well, you know, stories of heaven and hell, reincarnation, are the fairy tales, and the underlying truth is the singularity of energy. Why then don't we all just worship the first law of thermodynamics? Which is that Energy is neither created nor destroyed. You don't have to worship it. All you have to do is understand it. Right, but it doesn't, people don't, there is no church in the first law of thermodynamics.

[50:00]

It does not comfort people. Because the fact that energy is neither created nor destroyed doesn't ease anyone's fears. What I'm trying to say is that we want to We don't care if our protons go on forever, because they do. But that's not comforting. But the fact that our face and our sense of humor and our bananas, the taste of bananas, will go on forever. It's what we really want. That's right, that's what we want. We want the taste of bananas to go on, we want the friendship and the feeling of eating and behaving and doing all those wonderful things that call life on earth, right?

[51:06]

But it doesn't. It doesn't go on. So where are you going to find your comfort? Well, no, I personally, I find my comfort in just feeling like, wow, it's okay because, well, I'm not that, you know, I don't really care that much about me. Really? Well, the thing is, you know... Are you sure? Well, you know, in a small way, I'm viciously attached to myself. But I think in some way I also feel all this other stuff is just going to keep on going.

[52:28]

What's this other stuff? Other people. Other people that aren't born yet. Even so, that may be true. But there will come a time when you will be gripped by something. Well, if I may, I don't know if I'm up, but if I may say, yesterday I was put myself in the challenge of my life, which was, I'm feeling completely without any, I'm feeling completely worthless because I can't do practice. I'm not completely, you know, I felt totally invalidated.

[53:29]

But what, so what? You know, because, so what does it matter if I can't do it? Hopefully somebody can do it. Not this room. That's very nice. None of us can do it. It's too hard. It's too hard. That's the better it is. None of us can do it. Well, if everyone is failing to do it in the same way that I feel that I am... Then what? Well, I just feel, you know, I'm kidding. Well, that makes me feel a lot better. But that's true.

[54:41]

None of us can do the practice. But we're still all trying. So I encourage you to keep trying with us. Even though you think you're the worst horse. I really appreciate what Kathy was saying. It really speaks to me. It's not birth and death that's the problem. It's lack of aliveness. It's sitting here waiting for it to be over, which is killer. I just did it again for two hours this morning.

[55:44]

And so we sit here until we finally give up that there's anything else. And when you finally give up that there's anything else, you can sit here. That's really all we're doing. But there's something that wants something else. That's called desire. And desire is called the root of suffering. And that's what we're studying. We're studying, how does suffering arise? Suffering arises through desire to have things a different way. Not that they can't be a different way. They will always be a different way. But how do you be here and just let go and be here?

[56:47]

You know those ribbons you win for the best bread at the county fair, horse races, you know? It's its first prize, and then it has the circle of ribbon and its dreamers. And I think we could really get it if we just Won that, and then just go on. That's right. When you did win it, as a matter of fact, the person who has the hardest time and still stays here, wins that ribbon. The person who has the most urge to leave, but still stays here, wins that ribbon. But we don't have an ergometer. He's doing the judging. An ergometer. I'll find somebody to make one for me. Maybe Charlie wants to make an ergometer. Well, we're in trigger mood.

[58:04]

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