to sit up. Reminds me of a plant, you know, when you don't get enough water, it kind of gets like this, and then you water it like this. So practice period is kind of like giving us some nourishment So our practice can stand up, sit up straight. And I think that we're accomplishing that. In our class, we've been studying Master Keizan's Denko Roku, the transmission of light, which is stories of all the ancestors, of the important ancestors, not all the important ancestors, but the ones that we are counted in the lineage, who we pay respect to in the lineage.

[01:37]

And Master Khezan has a commentary on each one. and treats each biography of each one as a koan. So each one is really talking about the same thing, but expressing a certain aspect. So today, talk about the 34th ancestor, who is Chinese, and his name is Qingyuan Xingsu, who we know as Seigen, Seigen Gyoshi in Japanese.

[02:43]

So when we chant the lineage, we chant his name as Seigen Gyoshi. And Seigen was a direct dharma heir, direct descendant of the sixth ancestor, Daikan Ino. And Daikan Ino had a good number of disciples, but the two main ones who we recognize are Seigen and Nangaku, or Chinyuan and Nanyue. And Seigen, or Chinyuan, is the fountainhead of the Soto lineage, after the sixth ancestor. And Nangaku is the fountainhead of the Rinzai lineage, which are the two lineages

[03:50]

of the five schools of Zen. And Seigen though seems to have been the sixth ancestor's favorite disciple. So this is about, first there's the case which is presented by Master Keizan, and then the circumstances, and then the teisho, or commentary. So, the case centers around when Seigen first meets the Daikan Eino, So, the 34th ancestor, Qin Yuan, or Seiyuan, was great master Hung Ji.

[05:01]

There's another name for him. He practiced in the community of Cao Qi, who is the 6th ancestor. That's another name for him. He asked the 6th ancestor, what should I do so as not to class. And the ancestor asked, well, what have you been doing so far? And the master, who is Sagan, said, I have not even taken up the Four Holy Truths. And the sixth ancestor asked, Well, into what stage would you finally end up? And Sagan said, if I still have not even taken up the holy truths, what stage can there be?

[06:03]

And the sixth ancestor was greatly impressed with his potential. Didn't say he got enlightened. He was greatly impressed with his potential. That's nice. I like that. So I'll just present this case. And the Teisho revolves around this meeting. So these are the circumstances of the case. The master, who is Seigen, I'll call him by his Japanese name, The master was from the Liu family of Aung Chang in Chi Chau, even though he was Chinese. He made his home departure while he was still young, and whenever he was in a group discussing the way, he remained silent.

[07:10]

Later, he heard about the Dharma talks of the sixth ancestor of Cao Chi, and went there to pay his respects. And he asked, What should I do so as not to land in some class or stage? And so on. And the ancestor was greatly impressed with his potential. Though there were many monks in that community, the master was the foremost. It was like the second ancestor remaining silent and Bodhidharma saying, you have acquired my marrow. Do you know that story? And one day he said, it's time for you to express your understanding. So each one came and expressed their understanding. And when it came to the second ancestor, Taiso Eka, he

[08:23]

you have my marrow." To one he said, you have my skin. The other he said, you have my bones. You have my flesh. And the other he said, you have my marrow. And Dogen has a wonderful commentary on this, which I won't go into. But that's where the story comes from. And so, It was like the second ancestor remaining silent and Bodhidharma saying, you have acquired my marrow. One day, the ancestral teacher, Huineng, said, formerly the robe and bowl were both passed on from master to disciple. The robe represents faith and the Dharma seals the mind. Now I have found you, so why should I worry about being believed? That's great trust. Since receiving the robe, I have run into much trouble, and there will certainly be more contention in later generations.

[09:38]

So the transmission of the robe will end, and thus bring peace to the monastery. You should teach somewhere else, or teach, pick up the teaching, and not allow the teaching to be extinguished. So the sign of ancestral succession through the first six generations in China from Bodhidharma to Huineng was the handing down of Bodhidharma's robe and bowl. But the sixth ancestor Huineng said, after me we won't hand it down anymore because it just causes a lot So, that passing down of that roving bull stopped. During the Tang Dynasty in China, the various schools formed around various teachers.

[10:49]

act of handing down Bodhidharma, a little of them both stopped. And actually, in Sao Chi, in China, the body of the Sixth Ancestor is still preserved in that temple. They used to embalm some of their important people. That was a practice in China, embalming. Just very much like different than in Egypt. And actually Sekito's body is also preserved. He used to preserve them in lacquer. Sekito's body ended up in Japan. But anyway, this was a fairly common practice.

[12:07]

So apparently the robe and the bowl and Huineng's mummy. I know that the mummy is there, but I don't know about the robe and the bowl. I think they disappeared a long time ago. Anyway, having acquired the Dharma, the master lived Yuan in Qichao, sharing the teaching with his teacher, Huineng. Eventually, after he found Sekito, many others came to follow in his footsteps. And after joining his Sixth Ancestors group, So he was Huineng's bright light. On the 13th day of the 12th month in 740, he appeared in the Dharma Hall, spoke to the monks, sat in cross-legged meditation, and expired.

[13:11]

Later, he was given the posthumous title of Great Master Hung Chi. This was fairly common for the Zen masters, too. When they were ready to die, they would let people know and then they would sit across from you and expire. Very common. So here's the taisho, or the commentary. He never discussed Buddhism with the crowd. In other words, he didn't chit-chat about the Dharma. An especially unusual continuous practice in silence With such power of attention to making a strenuous effort, while he was with his sixth ancestor, he asked what he should do so as not to land in some glass or stage. Truly, he experienced the way fully and ended by not having any inclination to go any further.

[14:15]

The ancestor promptly tried to get him to present his realization, asking, what have you done so far? And finally, the point was exposed and not shut up in the needle case. He said, I have not even tried the holy truths. Hearing this is hard to hear, and meeting this is hard to meet. Even though you cease continuing, there is still an attachment to the self. I'll explain this. In the past and present, both past and present, this situation is called dharma attachment. Yunmin called this the two sicknesses of the dharma body. So what he's getting at here is talking about stages.

[15:18]

What this text shows about is talking about stages of practice, not getting caught in stages of practice. to say, oh, I haven't even studied the Holy Truth, is to make a statement about not getting stuck in stages of practice. So I say, I haven't even taken the first step of a stage of practice, fortunately, so I won't get stuck in stages of practice. And so, Kaesong is talking about, be careful because no matter what you say, you get stuck. No matter where you are, if you recognize it as a stage, you can't stay there. Yunmin's Two Sicknesses is a famous

[16:20]

And the two sicknesses, I don't want to, this is a very complex colon. It's like a beet seed. The beet seed, if you've ever seen a beet seed, it's this shriveled up little thing, little pod, but inside of it are the seeds. And so when you plant a beet, there are these hidden seeds, and the beets kind of grow up in a clump. This koan of Lun Lun's two sicknesses are like that, because the two sicknesses break down into two other sicknesses, and each one of these sicknesses is a koan in itself. So it's very complex. Yun-Man called this the two sicknesses of the Dharma body.

[17:33]

In truth, this results from not passing completely through this situation. However, Ching-Yuan, or Sagan, not only just acknowledged his original nature, he penetrated this barrier. So he's saying that any stage which you get stuck in is a barrier. If you get enlightened and you stay there, then enlightenment becomes a sickness. If you say, well, ordinary activity is the way, if you get stuck there as a stage, then ordinary activity becomes a sickness. So, you know, Dogen says, the zazen, in the Fukan Zazen, he says, the zazen I speak of is not learning meditation.

[18:39]

People say, what? I thought zazen was meditation. He says, it's not learning meditation. It is simply the dharmagate of repose and bliss. Learning meditation is what Buddhists do. But what he means here by learning meditation is learning the stages of meditation. In Buddhism, there are the famous eight jhanas, which are step-by-step meditation stages. And then, of course, Zazen developed out of those stages. But people don't practice those stages anymore.

[19:43]

And some people do, I think. Some people try to practice those stages, but in the end, they don't really lead to complete liberation. So, practice in order to get from delusion to enlightenment. In order to get from delusion to enlightenment, you start with delusion and then you practice the various stages which lead to enlightenment. This is practicing stages. And in the Mahayana, they developed the ten stages of the Bodhisattva. And if you read Mahayana literature, Most of it is literature. And very little of it is actual, practical reality. So when you read a lot of the Mahayana Buddhist literature, it's wonderful, but you have to remember that it's literature.

[20:54]

And so, if you take it, literature, literally, then you wonder, where am I in all this? Because it's so far beyond anyone's capability to practice that you get very discouraged. So, if you can use the literature as metaphor for your own practice, that's okay. But if you feel that you have to fulfill the ideals of the literature, literally, then it's like, as Suzuki Hiroshi says, trying to catch a comet going by. People will feel sorry for you. So, the ten bhumis, or the ten stages of

[22:02]

The Bodhisattvas practiced this wonderful stuff, but to get caught in any stage is a sickness. That's where you languish. So when we sit tzazen, we're very careful not to strive for some special stage or some special state of mind. The state of mind in Zazen is no special state of mind. But even so, even though we know that, when we sit we say, We say, oh, this is awful.

[23:03]

And we get caught on the stage of awful. And then there are all the various stages in between. But we want something. And as long as we want something, we get caught on the stage of wanting. And any one of those is a kind of Zen sickness. Or we get caught in the stage of not wanting. That's also sickness. So to let every state of mind just come and go. And to be attentive and not attached. Stages don't go from 1 to 10. You know, we have the Oxford pictures in Zen, and the Oxford pictures look like 10 stages.

[24:09]

But if you get stuck in any one of those stages, it's a sickness. Because the stages don't go from 1 to 10. It may go from 1 to 9, to 8, to 5, to 3, to 10. It doesn't go in an orderly process. Our practice does not develop in an orderly process of stages. Sometimes we're on stage one, sometimes we're on stage five, and then sometimes stage three. If you let things come and go easily, you'll find that that's what happens. and then you won't be so concerned about yourself. Whatever stage you are at is wonderful. Wonderful stage, wonderful place to be.

[25:12]

So we go through various stages, sometimes moment by moment. So there are stages, and yet there are no stages. So Zazen is the same when you first begin to practice as the last Zazen. And yet every Zazen is completely different. So the ancestor asked, into what stage will you finally end up? He asked Sagan, under what stage will you finally end up? In this deep, secluded place, there is no inside or outside after all. In this deep, final realm, not even a knife or an axe can separate it.

[26:18]

Therefore, he asked, what stage can there be? Totally penetrating this realm, unclouded, he penetrated it totally. He said, I have still not even tried the holy truths. What stage can there be? Even if you try to establish a class or a stage, there are no boundaries in the sky right from the beginning. Where can you build stairs? This kind of practice, we have what's called step ladder Zen. Step ladder Zen is where can you build the stairs? Those who understand this realm of emptiness literally have, since ancient times, fallen into a view that all things are empty and arrive at an understanding that the myriad things are non-existent and say, nothing really exists.

[27:24]

Since Sagan cried out, I have not even tried the holy truths, How could he remain in the emptiness of things? If you finally get to the realization, the stage of realizing that nothing actually exists, and stay there, that's a sickness. Zen sickness. If you get to the stage where you realize that everything exists, Look carefully. This bright, empty realm is brighter than the rising sun. Even though this vast, marvelous, true nature is not an object of discrimination, it possesses complete, perfect, clear understanding. Though it is not bound by bones and marrow, it has a bright body that is not covered or hidden.

[28:26]

This body cannot be discerned through motion or stillness. nor can its knowing be discerned through ordinary awareness and understanding. Since ordinary knowing is also this wisdom, motion and stillness are also nothing else than this. Even Bodhisattvas who have reached the tenth stage of stages, by stages, still do not see Buddha nature really clearly. Why? The Buddha said, because they postulate an essence of things and establish practices apart from ordinary activities. In other words, they say there's the essence, and then there's the ordinary. They do not see Buddha nature clearly, because for Buddhas, there are ultimately no practices and no realm of stage, no realm of stages.

[29:31]

they see Buddha nature thoroughly. In the eighth book of the Great Nirvana scripture, clearly says the twelfth chapter, Awakening of the Tathagata Nature, it says, although innumerable bodhisattvas are endowed with all the perfections and practice the ten stages, they still are unable to see their own Buddha nature. The Buddha has consequently said that their views are deficient. Thus, good sons and daughters, the Bodhisattva on the tenth stage still does not clearly know or see Buddha nature. So how much less are disciples or self-enlightened people able to see it? And you may say, well, what about me?

[30:35]

Actually, he's talking about you. He's really talking about you. With no reliance on seeing and hearing, and with no reliance on an external world, or use of the thinking mind, just try to look beneath them. In other words, he doesn't mean to eliminate seeing, hearing, sensory world. He says, get below the sensory world. The sensory world, only the sensory realm can only be discerned partially. Whatever we hear, see, feel, taste, touch. It only gives us some partial understanding, partial way to understand who we are.

[31:45]

Get underneath that and meet the real person. So that's why he says, with no reliance on seeing and hearing, He doesn't say, don't hear and see. He just says, don't rely on that. And with no reliance on an external world or use of the thinking mind, just try to look beneath them. There will surely be an unexpected realization of an alert knowing not gotten from someone else. So he's saying, please, this is Zazen. It doesn't say, shut your ears or shut your eyes. But don't depend on this information. When we sit in Zazen, we hear hearing ears, seeing cities.

[32:49]

If you say, I hear, that's using your eyes or your ears. say, I hear, it's using your ears. But if you say, seeing sees, hearing hears, tasting tastes, then that's letting, allowing the real person to come forward. But when we say, I hear, I see, then that I is a cover, a discriminating cover. So just say, hearing hears, I see. Don't say, I hear, I see.

[33:52]

And then he has a verse. And he says, now, can you add some word to the story? Reaching this realm, if you can add a word to the story, you will make the tongueless one speak. And if you can hear this principle, you will make the deaf one hear at once and make The tongues one and the deaf one refer to true nature, your true self. The one that is, in the introduction to the Uman's koan,

[35:01]

about the two sicknesses. The introduction says something like a bodiless person suffers illness, a handless person compounds medicine, a tongueless person takes meals, a deaf person A bodyless person is like someone who has dropped body and mind, or an enlightened person. An enlightened person suffers illness through enlightenment. Someone who has dropped body and mind is enlightened, if they stay at the stage of enlightenment. In other words, let the true nature do the speaking.

[36:32]

That's the Tongueless One. Instead of self-centered ego, let Big Mind do the speaking. That's the Tongueless One. So he says, now can you add some word to the story? Reaching this realm, if you can add a word to the story, you will make the timeless one speak. And if you can hear this principle, you will make the deaf one hear, at once. And clearly says, you will make the transcendent one within you, hear without ears and nod and understand it.

[37:34]

That's nice translation. So then he has a poem and he says, when a bird flies, it comes and goes, but there are no traces. How can you look for stages on the dark path? Tozan, in his teaching, talks about the bird's path. the follower of the way should follow the bird's path. The bird's path, you know, as it flies through the air, has a path, but, you know, you can't trace it, right, because it leaves no trace. And the fish swimming through the water no stage. It's completely wiped out. So Cleary translates it as, coming and going on the bird's path.

[38:40]

He kind of puts in that reference to Tozan. There are no tracks. How can you look for stages on the which always makes me feel funny. What does that line know about falling into the pit of liberation? Yeah, the pit of liberation.

[39:43]

When you reach the stage of complete liberation, So when you become liberated, you should just forget it and go on about your business. So this is, you know, hard stuff because we really want something. And when we get something, we want to hang on to it. nothing you can hang on to either. Don't hang on to delusion and don't hang on to liberation.

[40:47]

Don't hang on to bondage. There's no place that you can hang on to. This is the point. So the point, the main point is The sickness of practice that he's bringing out is the sickness of attainment. And Chögyam Trungpa wrote this book called Spiritual Materialism. And most of our attainments are on the materialistic side. The idea of attainment itself is a materialistic idea. People striving for spiritual attainment easily end up in spiritual bondage.

[42:01]

And the closer you get, the more of a trap it can be. So, what do you do? Practice itself is a big koan. How to practice a spiritual practice without getting caught by spirituality or some stage of attainment. Can you say something? Can you say some good word about stages?

[43:05]

No. Stage is some place we happen to be. It's not some place that we try to get to. I think that for us that's important. It's where we find ourselves, not where we try to get to. Where we try to get to is here. We don't try to add something. And so it is mysterious. Or it can be mysterious. How can I get out of myself?

[44:12]

How can I be somebody else? How can I be different? How can I, you know, get something that I don't have? This is all a trap. So the way to get out of the trap is to as the place to be. Very important. If all of these, say, stages, like say 1 to 10, are, you know, they may happen like 4, 8, 3, 6, And I think, um...

[45:21]

everything in it, for the whole plant. stage one without self-consciousness, wholly and completely innocently, then you are also at all the other stages without realizing it. That's why the beginner's practice contains everything.

[47:23]

In other words, that's what is in the dominant stage. But would you say you don't strive to leave stage one? You don't strive to be anywhere but? In other words, I don't strive to go anywhere? Right. Yeah. I mean, the hardest thing, you know, completely present. Right here. Without thinking about something else. This is why, you know, Lin Chi used to shatter people. And why Da Shan used to hit people with his stick. In order to bring them into the present. That's why we carry

[48:41]

Thanks for watching.

[48:44]

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