Thank you, Karen. Good morning. Wow, it's a nice crowd here. Welcome, Andrea. Nice to have you back. Anybody here for the first time? Welcome. Thank you for being here. So I thought I would talk today about what's been on my mind lately. Maybe that's a good policy always, but... So what's been on my mind is impermanence. The impermanence of this body. The impermanence of this Sangha body. For some reason that leads me always in the next step to talk about or to feel and think about taking refuge.

[02:03]

And underneath the taking refuge is a kind of long time burning question of mine which is what can we rely on? What can we depend on? So in terms of this impermanent body, I've been on a bit of a diagnostic journey for the last two and a half months, and I've had a good answer in the last two weeks, but there was a long period of being in limbo, and the limbo was finally came to a fork in the road in terms of one particular diagnostic procedure which would answer the question of is this manageable or is this not so much manageable? You know, and so there's all the opportunities to Google out there about the potential to flash catastrophe to oneself.

[03:14]

And actually the details aren't Very interesting, but if you want to know more, I'm happy to talk about it. I'd rather talk about how this influenced practice in the meantime. What I said to myself at some point along this journey was that I was either going to get a postcard or a telegram in capital letters from the universe about my own mortality. I'm happy to say it was a postcard. Point taken. has my attention. I hope it keeps my attention. I did think that maybe adjustments were needed to my practice and I sort of had to up my game a bit, if you will. I had a weeping moment or two, but not too much. I did, I was directed by a teacher to go to the four foundations of mindfulness of the body and so forth

[04:21]

And I have to say that I'm a beginner at it, and I'm just starting, but it was rather immediately helpful. I mean, as soon as I went down the flashing catastrophe road, I could say to myself, where am I now? What am I feeling now? And invariably, I was fine. I felt fine. I wasn't in pain, not in pain. I was helped by, you know, Norman Fisher has a podcast of talks, Everyday Zen is where you find it. And he did a series on fear during this period of time, which was helpful. And the one thing that caught my ear was that, not always, certainly there's fear in the moment, but mostly fear is about something in the future, not something right now. what will be, not what is. But I had a surprising turn of my mind in this process in which I had this urge to return to the religion of my childhood.

[05:39]

I don't even want to unpack the reasons for that, but it was surprising to me because I left it for what I thought were really good reasons when I was in my 20s. The religion I grew up in is one of the three, and they subsequently became the New Age group, the Church of Religious Science, Christian Science, and Unity, and I grew up in Unity. And it is a... Well, all of these were founded by people who were involved in the theosophical movement at the turn of the 19th century. And so there's a good deal of influence from the Eastern thought in it. They don't talk about the Trinity. They don't talk about Christ. They talk about the Christ spirit in each person. Sound familiar? Like Buddha nature. It's like a little translation there.

[06:43]

They don't pray so much as they affirm. They affirm the truth of what already is, the power of the mind, the power of the mind to manifest in the world. Well, this was comforting to turn to because It gave me a sense of control, like, oh, I know how to handle this. I can positive think my way through this. I can make it so. Which is actually the exact reason why I left that tradition, because I saw how that idea that you can make it so had a really wicked underbelly. in that I actually heard someone say about someone else, oh man, they are clearly not thinking positively because otherwise they wouldn't be sick. So it had a kind of a whiplash, blame the victim kind of effect.

[07:46]

And it's not like I hadn't discovered this on my own a little bit. I mean, even before I was coming here kind of full on, I had an experience where I really got it on some level. I was trekking with family in Nepal, kind of a lifetime trip. It was my bucket list to see those mountains in person. And we were doing the Annapurna loop. You go up the Marsalanga Valley. to 13,000 feet where you acclimatize and then you go up to 17,000 feet and then back down the other side of Annapurna. And it takes days to go up that valley and it's beautiful. And I had decided that I would take a mantra with me and I was reading Thich Nhat Hanh at the time and so all the way up day for days I was going present moment on the in-breath and wonderful moment on the out-breath. And I was having a really wonderful time with it.

[08:51]

And then we got up to tree line and the storm set in. And the mountains never showed themselves. And we hiked in the cold and rain up to the 13,000 foot level and the storm got so severe that nobody was going over the path. And we didn't have time to wait it out. So here's this lifetime trip I was upset to say the least. I was kicking cans all the way back down for days. And somewhere in the middle of that, and I hiked by myself, I didn't want to talk to anybody, anyone around me. In a kind of petulant mood, I said, well, if it mantra is good enough for going up, it might probably be good enough for coming down. So I started present, wonderful present.

[09:53]

And you know, it continues to be cold and it's raining. And really on the last hike out before we're going to be picked up, I am cold and I'm soaked to the skin, all the way, my boots to my head. And I was doing the present moment, wonderful moment. And I was walking through a rice field. And I suddenly said to myself, you know, I have this all wrong. I have this completely upside down. I am not making this a wonderful moment. This moment already is a wonderful moment, cold and wet as it is. Because I'll never be here again. I'll never see this again. This moment is it. And the field just went into high definition.

[10:58]

I mean, I still have a vivid memory of the kind of illuminated green that I was surrounded in. So that was one lesson I had. Another lesson I had during this whole procedure is I had the opportunity to have an ultrasound on one of my body parts. And the technician is training somebody, so I get to have it twice. And I'm lying down looking. at the screen. I mean, one of the things about mindfulness practice is that it kind of ups your curiosity about things. It's a really interesting process, this medical thing. And I'm looking at the screen like, how the heck can they figure out what they're looking at? I don't know if you've seen ultrasounds, you know, they don't make sense.

[12:01]

But he was, you know, flipping switches and suddenly he zeroed in on the arteries and veins inside this organ. And then he flipped another switch and they were turned on and the whole thing is like in shades of gray, but the arteries and veins were red and blue and pulsing. Like inside my body there, I'm looking at it. And then he flipped another switch and who knew there was sound with ultrasound? Like, I guess there's sound. But it had sound, you could hear it, like, let's see if I can do it. And I'm listening to the blood in my body, and it sounded like being at the ocean. And I had this experience like, it has never occurred to me that all that is going on all the time in this body.

[13:06]

And I'm not doing anything about it. It is just happening. It's like a whole universe. An unknown universe inside. I mean, I have a feeling that even if I were a trained medical person, which I'm not, that it's not very far before you get to a place where it's unknown, in fact. I mean, my situation is really on that border right now, the unknowns. And I thought, you know, I am so out of my league in terms of being able to control this. I can't make it so, I can't. This is beyond me. This life force isn't something I'm doing. It's something that is somehow being done. So, it is always good to turn to Suzuki Uroshi, you know, on these things about what to depend on, so.

[14:22]

I found that there is a interactive chart on a website about Suzuki Hiroshi's archives where you can listen to the transcript of his original, read the transcript of his original talk, listen to him saying it, and then see the chapter in the book where it is. So this is taken from the chapter called Stand Up on the Ground in Not Always So. And actually, his original talk is more pleasing somehow than what ends up in the book. And as background to what he's saying here, before he says this, he has gone into some sort of esoteric description of the Japanese word ima, which means it, and he's He's saying, it can be everything and it can be specific, like it's 10 o'clock or it's cold.

[15:29]

All these individual it's and this big it. So he says, so there is nothing to rely on in our practice. But, on the other hand, there is always something provided for you. Always. According to the circumstances, you will have some aid to your practice. You know, even pain in your legs is help, you know. By the pain you have, you should practice our way. The pain is it. It is at that time some definite experience or definite trouble or a thing, but it can be drowsiness, it can be hunger, it can be the hot weather. So hot weather or cool weather, nice and cool weather or hunger or mosquito or pain in your legs can be an aid for your practice by which you can stand up

[16:40]

establish your practice. Not only you know Buddhist teaching, but also everything can be an aid of your practice. So in a shosan ceremony a number of years ago, I asked Sojin a question. The question was something like, why is it that when I look up at the sky at night and really experience how vast the universe is and how even when we're looking at the stars we're looking at multitudes of different times coming in the form of light. Why is it that when I see that I feel relieved? And he said, because you're cooperating with the universe.

[17:45]

And I don't exactly know what that means, to cooperate with the universe, but it was very comforting. I've gone in bunches of directions about it. It says something about coming into alignment, folding into the flow. This morning, When we were chanting the Heart Sutra, a sentence popped out at me about this. I've never kind of fastened on it before. With nothing to attain, a bodhisattva depends on prajna paramita. There it is, something to depend on, something to rely on, but I don't know exactly what that means. Maybe you can talk about that later. So the other place besides practice that I have been taking refuge is in Sangha. Indirectly and directly.

[18:50]

Indirectly just by enjoying being here and directly by having conversations with various people. I spoke to Sojin about it and he said, Helpfully. It is helpful. I'm not being sarcastic. Everybody's got something. Which, I don't know why that's comforting, but it's true. We're all, you know, on the same journey, I guess. But during the same exact period of time, the last two and a half months, I think the ante has been upped on our awareness of impermanence within our Sangha. We have a beloved Sangha member who is in a hospice journey. We have another beloved member recovering from a near-death experience by auto accident.

[19:53]

We have a Sangha member who just recently experienced the death of a partner. And the list of that could go on. Then we have our leadership. letting us know that they are in flux and redefining their... retuning their own practice of leadership here. Sojon just three weeks ago talked about his changes in schedule and what he's doing now. And that's an unfolding, changing process. Actually, I think a lot about Sangha, what makes a group feel safe or harmonious or restorative.

[20:55]

I've personally worked the edge of feeling like an outsider versus an insider in community. I mean, that's been kind of a life project. I think it's probably why I enjoyed, you know, river running in the wilderness because it was an experience of a tribe in the wilderness having each other's back in so many ways. Kind of puts you right up against it. It certainly has tuned me, either I evoke it or I'm tuned to it, other people's expression of lack of safety or outsiderness or various, various complications in relationship to Sangha. And so I try to get hold of what is it, what is it that matters?

[22:03]

What is the most important thing? And one of the things that I hear are when people feel unseen. invisible, unrecognized or unappreciated. I complained to a therapist once, what is this business about being seen? Why can't you just be seen and then have that done? Check. And she said, do you eat every day? I said, okay, right, point taken. Fundamental need, ongoing. So another question I've had is, you know, what is it that makes a difference? What are the components of that? And I go to a life-turning moment in my own life. This is 1999, long before gay marriage was a possibility.

[23:14]

I guess not that long, Long enough. I was, in the relationship I was with then, I was with somebody who was a Methodist. I was already turning significantly toward Buddhism, so I went, but I went. I was interested in that community and what it had to offer. And there were two elders, I apologize if you've heard this. I told this in a class last year, but I thought I'd tell it again. There were two elders in the congregation in the Sacramento Methodist Church downtown, the first one, I think, first congregational, who wanted to have their union blessed. They'd been in relationship for 30 years. And at that time, it may still be true, I haven't checked,

[24:14]

a minister would be defrocked for doing that. And the Reverend Fado at the time said, I can bless their house, I can bless their car, I can bless their pets, and I can't bless their relationship. What's that? What is that about? And so what he did was put out a call to the Western Conference, which is four or five states in the West of ministers, Methodist ministers, to help him officiate. And before the whole thing was over, he had close to 100 ministers, with a few Episcopalian ministers thrown in, who would co-officiate with him. He sent out word to all of the congregations for people to come and attend, and by the time they were done, they had to hire the Sacramento Convention Center to stage this union blessing, I went with my then partner.

[25:22]

So, and everybody got sent lyrics to the songs that they were gonna sing, so the whole place turned into a choir. Down on the stage, there was a riser, like a choral riser within 90-something, 99 ministers, in an array around the two women sitting in front of them. And outside there was a circle of protection of people who were standing in protection around the convention center because Reverend Phelps and his crew were across the street with signs that said, God hates fags. So there was a celebration outside in a protection circle and there was this thing going on on the inside and when the moment came to bless the union all of the ministers put their hands on the shoulder of the one in front of them and spoke so real down to the women.

[26:31]

And that's how they did it. of moment for me was that one of the ministers in that group was my ex-father-in-law. And one of the people standing in the circle outside was my ex-husband. So there were people who I knew and loved and who loved me who were putting themselves on the line for this So I didn't make it through the ceremony without crying all the way through. There was one moment, a hymn, a modern hymn, that just undid me. And the lyrics go, in this very room, there is enough love for one like me.

[27:38]

In this very room there is enough joy for one like me. In this very room there is enough power and hope for one like me. For our spirit is in this very room. So they were brought up on charges, all of them. And for the next year they went through a trial, a Methodist trial. And in the Western Conference held what was basically an extended study session on what the Bible actually said about, and didn't say, about homosexuality. And they brought people from around the world who were linguists and so forth. So they didn't end up getting defrocked.

[28:43]

That's the bottom line of that. So I've thought a lot about what is it, what got me, what was important about that? And I kept coming up with, there was a place at the table for me. But I would expand that to say, This belongs to me, this belongs to you, this Dharma belongs to each of us. There is something about a profound inclusion that is the most important, I think. I do think that Sangha is like a garden. It needs to be tended, it changes, and day by day it needs something maybe a little different. But I wonder, I'm interested in what you all think about what that tending looks like.

[29:50]

One of the places I get to is that tending is about how we show up for one another. I mean, that certainly was what was so deeply meaningful about that event for me. I don't think that Sangha always have to be that dramatic. I think it's actually more in the day by day, bit by bit, that things deepen. So I read someplace recently while I was preparing for this that the original meaning of, I don't know if it's the Pali or Sanskrit word, this is when we need Linda Hess, right? That the original meaning of it was inseparable. So after the ultrasound experience, the next time I sat Zazen, I realized that in this very room, there were pulsing universes in each person.

[31:00]

I have to admit that the business about showing up is something I am practicing. I've not always been very good at it. I think I was never really convinced that And my presence was that important in the scheme of things. But early on in a conversation with Sojan, I was struggling with how to balance my practice between sitting at home and sitting in the Zen Do, he said, sitting in the Zen Do is a cure for selfish practice. And I thought about that a lot, and oh, So just being here is encouraging for everyone else. Just showing up.

[32:06]

So I'm thinking about Thich Nhat Hanh who's going through his own impermanence and transition right now. You know, I Googled, or I searched, didn't Google, but in that archive of Suzuki Roshi, I searched for Sangha, and he didn't talk about Sangha much. But you know, Thich Nhat Hanh talks about it a lot. So here's Thich Nhat Hanh. To take refuge, first of all, is to take refuge in the island of ourselves, and then in the island of Sangha. These islands are communities of resistance. Resistance does not mean to oppose others. It means to protect ourselves, like staying inside the house to protect ourselves from the weather. We resist being destroyed by society's pollution, noise, unhappiness, and harsh words, negative behavior.

[33:20]

If we do not know how to take care of ourselves, we may get wounded and be unable to help others. If we join with others to build a Sangha that can nourish and protect us and resist society's destructiveness, we will be able to return home. A true Sangha is always therapeutic. To return to our own body and mind is already to return to our roots. to our true home, to our true person, with the support of the Sangha, we can do it. So that's all I have. So I'd like to hear from you. Thank you.

[34:28]

Late in the talk, I believe what you were talking about was the experience in Sacramento. Got a place at the table and then something about this belongs to me. And I'm wondering if you also look at the changes that I'm wondering if you look at those things as, oh, this belongs to me. Hmm. I think I do, yeah. Do you? I think I do. Thank you. Yes, Kelsey. Okay.

[35:30]

Okay, Jose. Thank you so much. I have heard you tell that story about the union, so like you said, last time you told it, and I cried that time, and I also cried this time. It's really moving. and you feel relaxed. Relieved. Relieved. Okay. Sometimes I look at the stars and I feel really scared. And I wonder if that's symbolic of not flying with the universe. The universe was flying with it or cooperating with it. Yeah. What do you think? I would say yes. With that?

[36:32]

Yeah. Yeah, well, fear is a separating thing, right? It's an experience of separateness, I think. Being not a part of something. Yes, Mira? So that's been my experience being here. I've been here for 38 years, but have always felt marginal, even though I've made some contributions. And he looked at me and he said, it's really good to have you here.

[38:18]

And in 38 years, that was the only time that Sojin expressed that to me. And I had tears in my eyes. You know, it just meant so much to me. And I went and told everybody. Sojin acknowledged me. And I think that's very important to all of us. And you said it's like, you know, it's just neat. It's always there. And it is. And I think we all need to hear that from senior people here and the teachers. And I think then we feel a better inclusiveness in Sangha. So I think I really appreciate it. Thank you. Katie.

[39:27]

I was thinking about just now talking about permanent work relationships and my own life and my ongoing experience of And I guess the question that came up for me is, I feel like your enemy of refuge is the state. I think what comes to mind is the Zazen instruction.

[40:44]

which is how to treat the part of your mind that wanders away and the gentleness and non-judgmentalness of just bringing it back. It's really not how much you escape. It's all about return. and again and again and again. Penelope. One of the things that rises up in the conversation sometimes has to do with what is not yet done or what is invited now or that terrain.

[42:09]

And it's very moving to me that we know the answer. So glad to have you here. What was that?

[43:19]

Oh, Ron. Oh, he's wanting you to go first. Thank you, Mary, for your talk. At one point you said, you know, in the Heart Sutra, the line is far, far from every pervert to do. No fears exist. No fears exist. So... Although... Although they do exist. That wasn't the line that I fastened on. That may be the line you fastened on. So... It's a thing that we're projecting in the future, what could happen. So, other than Zazen, how do you work with being just here and not out in the future where fears can arise? Thoughts? Well, I stopped Googling things, for one thing.

[44:22]

And It helps me to have a mental image of something, so I sort of parked my fear like there. It was always kind of with me. I wasn't denying it, but I wasn't living in it. I mean, that was the visual that I had about it. Mostly that works. I mean, in the middle of the night it doesn't, frankly, but... But then, I guess it's the same as what I was saying to Katie, it's just coming back again, you know, trying to come back without the self-retribution for having gone down that rabbit hole, just don't add any more, don't pile on that, just come back. I found refuge in my body when I would say to myself, how am I feeling actually?

[45:28]

The fact of the matter is I feel better than I have in years because the symptoms that I was having are managed. So physically I'm in much better shape in a very weird way. And I can, I can, that's good enough for now, right? And my experience with him being here touched on about three or four points that you made during your talk. And the first one was, I was the person that stands at the door. Sheikah. And like a spirit carrier in the Shakespeare play with the celebrities coming in. The theme of his talk was enjoy your breathing.

[46:55]

And it was just kind of like this moment, wonderful moment, just please enjoy your breathing. That was basically the theme of his talk. He wanted the group to be able to enjoy their breathing. And he had Mailey kind of sit and be a kind of a demo and kind of ask her what she was experiencing, and it went back and forth. Thank you. Thank you. Charlie. Thanks very much, Mary. In your experience, what is the difference between fear and worry? There's a big difference physiologically. Real fear changes your... the neurotransmitters in your body.

[48:07]

I mean, you know, with adrenaline and cortisol and all that. Worry is a nattering on. It's a being compelled to think about something. That's kind of how I would describe it. But I like what Shanti Davis said about worry, which is, if the problem can be solved, there's no need to worry. And if it can't be solved, worrying won't help. So. Oh, well. I think we're stopping now. Thank you. Is that right? Oh, I have five more minutes. Oh, sorry. Yes. This is giving up selfish practice. Coming to this time is giving up selfish practice.

[49:08]

And whether that's true or not, I believe it. You can slip and set it. But it is certainly the place to come and see. Highlight selfishness. If you come here and you're not being selfless, it stands out. If you come here and you are One of the things about my perfectly selfless practice before I came here was that I hadn't been here yet. And when I got here, I realized, oh yeah, there's a whole lot of people. There's a whole lot of accommodation. There's a whole lot of practice in doing what I think is good and being with everybody who has complete versus being completely uncertain in the Sangha.

[50:20]

It comes back to worry. I don't know, but if I'm worrying about getting it right, I'm not seeing it. And so I had no idea what I was getting into. It's so rich. Did coming here change my experience? Oh, yeah. Well, first of all, I'm understanding your comments about that this sounds like a personal journey that you've been on. So thank you for that. And that... Other people who have a different incarnation should not take that as a reason to be paranoid about people watching you and what you're doing. Because that's on them.

[51:22]

Well, I mean, how many ways? say some things. So one of the things that I get routinely and have is inspiration, both from people's practices and from the talks and from the way seeking mind talks. I mean, my favorite time to come in the beginning was the Monday morning still is. And that's just encouraging on the face of it. Another thing that's encouraging is the way this place, you know, at the ups and downs it has and the fluctuating it does, like a garden does, there's a life force that is really solid. I'm interested and maybe we can continue this conversation about

[52:31]

what's the best way to tend that and contribute to that and so forth. Certainly Sangha has the other side of it for me which is that it's a petri dish in which I get to work out my most difficult dilemmas and have my most painful raw nerves punched occasionally and then I have to figure out what to do about that and how to live with it how I, you know, do I go away, do I escape, do I run for the hills, do I not? I mean, I've tried all of those things. So, it's like being a stone in one of those rock polishers. Your edges get sanded down. So there's that. I don't know if that has anything to do with what you're asking, but I think it's time now.

[53:34]

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