Usually, at the end of seishin, toward the end, I say something like, even though we're very close to the end, seishin is not over. Don't anticipate the end. Only one more. The period is ending, then lunch, then it's over. Future is just an idea in our mind. There's only the unfolding of events in the present. So, the great test of what we've been doing for five days is how you approach the last moment or the last moments to actually see our practice through or to see your life or your time being through to the end with total exertion.

[01:58]

I was talking to Hillary who was saying that she's a nurse and she said, I get a little bit disturbed by people who, when they're talking to dying people, say, while you're alive, or while we're still existing on this earth, to just be completely existing on this earth. To be totally into this life up to the last minute. I think that's a pretty good way.

[03:12]

Then, when it's over, you can totally do the next thing. If we half-heartedly do this thing, then most likely we'll half-heartedly do the next thing. But if we can totally do this thing on this moment, then chances are we'll totally do the next thing on the next moment. So total exertion of this moment is a cause for total exertion on the next moment. So I tend to agree, but in a sense, when I think about it, totally being here and totally letting go.

[04:19]

Is that the same or different? In order to totally be here, we have to maybe totally let go. And in order to totally let go, have to totally be. So that's a good koan. This is our koan. How to let go and how to totally be at the same time. Is that the same or different? Sometimes people, we say, way-seeking mind.

[05:22]

We should have way-seeking mind. But way-seeking mind, someone will say, you talk about way-seeking mind and yet you say there's nothing to seek. Usually, when we talk about seeking something, we're talking about seeking something that's away from ourself, looking for something out there. But in Buddhadharma, a way-seeking mind means to find what's under your feet. We can walk all over the place. We can walk the entire Earth. But in the end, we come to what's under our feet. So our way-seeking mind leads to here.

[06:26]

Zen is called the gateless gate, the mumon ka, the gate which is no special gate. The entrance, which has no special... If you look for the gate someplace, you won't find it in any special place, but you can enter anywhere. Because there's no special gate, it's possible to enter anywhere at any time. And because there's no special place to go or something to seek, it may seem like there's nothing to accomplish.

[07:47]

Seeking an accomplishment are not necessarily the same, although they're associated with each other. As Suzuki Roshi used to say, or once said, Even though there's no self-nature, there's still some rules. Nevertheless, there's still some rules. Even though nothing is fixed or permanent, still there's some rules of how things work. Dharma is the rules of how things work.

[08:58]

And as human beings we have a difficult time knowing what the rules are because of the shift of footing, ways of holding on, ways of building security, but they're all constructions. The only security is right under our feet. By entering the gateless gate and seeking the way that's right under our feet,

[10:01]

This session is called Great Patience. But patience in the usual sense, not in the usual sense. Patience means maybe endurance. and waiting patiently. I think if we're patient, we're waiting patiently. But Sachine patience means the ability to just be where we are. Ability to just settle. without anxiety.

[11:12]

Usually we're thinking, what's next? And the two aspects of what's next are anxiety and boredom. And Sashin is very boring. It can be very boring. People tell me that I've never found Sashin boring. I found it difficult. Very difficult. But I don't find difficulty boring. Boring is maybe when you separate from yourself. When you separate or stand outside of yourself, then you say, well, what? There's nothing to do. But when you're completely focused with yourself or with something concentrated, then there's no boredom.

[12:30]

That's why we can do something over and over again, and if we do it completely, there's no over and over. It looks like over and over, but each time is its own time and its own place and its own activity, which is not the same as the activity that came before or the activity that will come again. But I'm not saying that it's not possible to be bored by doing something over and over again. It is. But the quality of our life, if we're always looking for something new and unique, often we're overlooking the quality of life that allows each moment to rise anew. And in Zazen, we have to be open to the quality of each moment.

[13:43]

And when we get deeply into Zazen, there is just one moment unique quality. It resembles another moment, but it's not like another moment. So when we leave Sashin and go out into the world, our sense of time is very different than our usual sense of time. in the busy world. I remember when I first used to go to Tassajara, and after spending a couple of months in Tassajara, I would come out. Three months in Tassajara, I'd come out, and the world was just rushing by like crazy.

[14:54]

I couldn't believe how the world was going so quickly. activity. My sense of time was, each moment was very big. And in Tzu Shing, each moment becomes a very big, huge space of time in each moment. So I think we're very fortunate to be able to experience our time, life, existence in this way, where we can appreciate every moment, even though we may have difficulty, even though we may have pain. Some people say, why do you want to sit there in pain all day?

[15:55]

This is the price of this activity. Whatever we do, we pay something. Everyone has their pain. I was talking about that yesterday. And for everything we do, we pay. If we have pleasure, Somewhere, even though we can't see how, we're paying in some way for it. There's always a price for everything. And if you want something that's precious and valuable, then you pay a high price for it. So if we want the pleasure of sashimi, then we pay the price of pain.

[17:26]

Pleasure and pain go together. But it's hard to measure what that pleasure is. It's not something so tangible, and sometimes it's So, I wonder if you have anything that you want to say? If you have anything you want to express? Some questions? We have a little bit of time here. I won't keep us too long. Yes? I have a question about whether the pain of sitting really is the price that has to be paid

[18:33]

I was just thinking, historically, when the Buddha sat, that's how people sat. Sat on a horse, flat on the ground. A horse? I mean, a horse. You know, they sat cross-legged. Cross-legged, yeah. And, in fact, even until the 1500s, 1400s in India, people sat like that, still sit like this. So, my question is really for Westerners or for modern people. Is the position itself necessary since that's what seems to cause most of the pain? Well, the position of sitting cross-legged, we sit this way because it's the easiest way to sit for a long period of time. It's much easier than sitting in a chair. And it's much easier than laying down. If you lay down, Should we try? I'll give you a demonstration.

[19:37]

I don't say that you don't fall asleep sitting up. Some people fall asleep standing on their hips. But it's the most stable position. It is true. I'm here to tell you that. comfortable either. So sitting up straight, upright, you know, is like dealing with gravity. Our life is governed by gravity.

[21:02]

Everything we do, no matter what it is, is controlled by gravity. So, sitting up is the expression of human spirit. Sitting up. Charlie. It just reminds me of a marvelous quote. He who controls gravity controls the universe. Jay Tracy Right, so if you can control gravity The balance, moment by moment, between spirit and gravity.

[22:17]

Spirit wants to go up, and gravity wants to pull everything down. So it's always this. And some form of this, moment by moment. So when we sit, without being supported by anything, in finding our relationship to gravity and allowing spirit to have its full function in relation to gravity. So that's why the sitting position is, aside from being the most comfortable, The thing is, how do you find comfort within the problem?

[23:21]

How do you find your ease within the problem you have? Even if you don't have pain, you have a problem. The problem of not having pain. I'm serious. If you don't have any pain, I'm not sure I buy this idea that the relationship between pain and pleasure is that the way that they're connected is that you pay for your pleasure with pain. I'm not sure that I see that connection. I mean, do you pay for your pain with pleasure or do you pay for your pain? I don't understand. That's a good point. You pay for your pain with pleasure. I won't stay anywhere, however.

[24:27]

We're losing him. That's right. But what about the story that pain is just not so important, it's only suffering that's the thing? Well, pain is important, but suffering comes from not paying for our pain, but our pleasures. pleasure and pain equally.

[25:29]

See, we make this value judgment. The pleasure is better than the pain. As long as you make that pleasure, that value judgment, pain becomes something that's undesirable. I know that sounds crazy. I know you're losing me. What you're saying is there's a difference between hurting and suffering. Yeah. The difference between hurting and suffering. Hurting is hurting. And suffering is, you know, many things. Saying it shouldn't hurt. What? Saying it shouldn't hurt. Suffering is saying it shouldn't hurt. Suffering and saying it? Suffering is saying it shouldn't hurt. Yeah, suffering is saying it shouldn't hurt. Yeah. Or what is hurt? What?

[26:33]

Or saying, what is hurt? Fighting. Fighting. Fighting. Trying to make it go away. Yes, trying to make it go away. Can't make it go away. viable. I was wondering if you could say, well, it's easy to say, well, if you just practice, then you accept the pain that you have, as opposed to changing, I don't know, Well, the external circumstances will change whether you change them or not.

[27:38]

But no one can tell you. Because it's all connected to your karma and your circumstances. And every situation has got this big pyramid of events which lead up to it. And when you say, shall I change something, you say to somebody, why don't you change your job? Or why don't you change your wife? Or why don't you change your husband? Or why don't you change your situation? It looks so simple to somebody who's just looking at it. But every situation is a big pyramid of events on which this is the leading edge. And even though you may want to change something, you can't change it because it's out of sync with your karma.

[28:53]

So it's possible to change. But, in other words, we're not fixed by karma. Our karma is influencing the way our life goes, but it's not fixed. It doesn't fix our life to go some way. It's always possible to change. So, if life is too painful, you can change. It's possible. But I didn't say it's easy. But it is possible. It's always possible to change. But no matter how much we change our circumstances, we're still wherever we are with who we are. And Suzuki Roshi used to say, you can change your equipment. We're always changing our equipment. It's like, some comedian, you know, putting on one set of clothes after another and acting out, right?

[30:05]

On the stage. And then we laugh, you know, huh? Now he's a baseball player, now he's a banker, you know. But you're still the same person no matter how much you change your circumstances. And in Sashin, we don't change our circumstances. We just stay with the circumstances and find our transformation inside. So when you say, when should I change? Well, it's up to you. But the pain is, the suffering is the inability to transform inside. But we're forced to do it. So we put ourselves in a position where we're forced. We can't run away. You can't escape and you have to do something. You have to find your, I don't know if transformation is the word, but the being one and letting go.

[31:18]

In other words, dying on each moment completely and coming to life on each moment completely. Now, remind me again why we eat so quickly. This is probably the real reason I'm lying. Maybe it's easier to see how ideas or our sense of self is our mental constructions, but how is our body or matter, for that matter, a mental construction?

[33:01]

You may say things exist, right? You may say, this body exists, right? You say so? But who recognizes this body exists? It's sheer consensus. Sheer consensus. Well... I mean, sheer consensus is a metaphor. The sheer consensus means that with our minds we agree on something. The mind recognizes that things exist, that this body exists. So if looking through this hole in my head, these two holes in my head,

[34:15]

Something sees this, and then this as an object, and then consciousness says, Raul, that whole thing is a big mental construction. But then you're saying existence depends on self-consciousness. What? You're saying existence depends on self-consciousness. And consciousness depends on existence. Everything is interdependent. You can't say only one thing. If you say one thing, you also have to say the other thing. Existence is a mental construction, and a mental construction is existence. Well, it depends on what we try for.

[35:29]

you mean I mean And that in itself is a roadblock. It feels like a roadblock. This is why everything we do is a balance. Gravity and Spirit is the balance, is the main balance. And that's what we're always balancing with. And it comes out as exertion and allowing. It comes out as turning and being turned. It comes out as positive and negative.

[37:00]

It comes out as male and female. It comes out, you know, all of these opposites. And everything we do is a balance with them. So too much exertion gets you high strung and tired and tight and tense. And when that happens, it becomes a barrier. And too little exertion becomes laziness and slothful, and energy can't arise. So that's the hindrance. So moment by moment, you have to find the balance between exertion and ease. And every moment, looking for that fine balance between exertion and ease. That's what we do in Zazen. If it's too much exertion, you get tense. And if it's too little exertion, you get lax.

[38:01]

So, where's that balance? Moment by moment by moment by moment. And this goes for all of our life. we tend to get over, you know, go over the line all the time. Either we're over the line or under the line, over the line or under the line. And this does create for vitality, but it also creates for a lot of disharmony. So, you know, the world's going like this all the time, you know, bound, going way over to this side and then going way over to this side. The pendulum swings, you know. But we have, each one of us has that pendulum in himself. So to find that balance moment by moment between letting and doing, between existence and motion.

[39:06]

Back to suffering. I don't think suffering is... it shouldn't hurt, or... why does it hurt? I think... I think suffering is... suffering. Just suffering, and... I think, and... that whether you accept suffering or not, there's still... you're still gonna be suffering. Yeah. Whether you accept it or not, there's still gonna be suffering. So, that's the way you think about it. Thank you. They're not reliable because they have no root.

[41:00]

They have no basis. They come up due to causes and conditions. And because we're always looking for pleasure, our emotions lead us astray. They're not reliable, although we do need emotions and feelings. When we come down to say what is reliable, we're talking about the fundamental thing. When you strip away everything else, what's the fundamental thing that you rely on? When you have a leader, then everyone knows where to follow. As soon as you cut the head off the leader, then the body and the followers are in disarray.

[42:07]

So when intention is the leader, then feelings, emotions and thoughts have a direction and they have a basis. Does that make sense? And that's, you know, way-seeking mind is to find out what's the right path to follow, with what intention.

[43:15]

And you have to settle on something. You have to have some backbone to your life. Otherwise, you go with this feeling and then you go with that feeling, this emotion and that emotion. It's easy to just get completely emotionally carried away by things. So emotions are fine. This is life, right? But how are they controlled or how are they brought into order so that they serve your intention rather than distracting you? Yeah.

[44:20]

Controlled folly and crazy wisdom. Is that what you mean? Did you say falling or folly? Folly. He would say that what Ross is saying is true. There is no real basis for that intention, but you have to have it. Right. Even though there's no self-nature, there's still some rules. How do you find original intentions and where do they come from? Our intentions? How do you find the... Original intentions. Well, we are all looking for a way to unify our life with the intention of the universe. Everybody is trying to find out how to unify their life with the intention of the universe, and it's pretty hard to know what the intention of the universe is. So, you become very quiet and listen.

[45:25]

What is the intention of the universe? And then you start from zero. And from zero, you walk on the earth. And as long as you're always in touch with zero, whatever you do has intention, even though maybe no particular thing. Is that the original intention, to come back to zero? Well, whether it's the original intention or not, that's where you wind up. Is original intention same as original nature Buddhists talk about? Say it a little slower. Is original intention same thing with the original nature people, I mean Buddhists?

[46:30]

Well, see, original intention is Sikh's original nature. So we say, Buddha seeks Buddha. Right? Yes. Because we're enlightened, we do Zazen to be enlightened. Because we're enlightened, we do Zazen to become enlightened. People, you know, tend to divide these things and they say, well, is it original enlightenment or is it acquired enlightenment? When we talk about pain associated with religion, it sounds like some virtue, because historically, religions have used pain as an excuse for destroying other people and causing pain to others.

[47:47]

I think pain is a result of what they do. I don't think they do it to cause pain to people. You know, you can drown a witch and save their soul. You can, you know, you throw them in the water, and if they sink, then they're okay. They're going to heaven if they, you know... Nevertheless, this is the fact of our practice, so I'm talking about it. Well, my question that went with that is, It seems to be a fact, and we all notice it, but I don't see that much, though I've read very little, in the reading about pain, and it seems maybe it's a good thing not to announce it as an intention. It's not an intention. I didn't announce it as an intention. No, no, I didn't say you did. It's the result. We don't sit in order to be painful.

[48:50]

But pain arises. Sometimes it doesn't. It's just a fact of life. And we just don't avoid it. That's all. It's like pain, we could say pain is the opening of the Zen Buddha. But I don't think we're saying that. It's just a fact of life. That's all. We just need to get on. The root of suffering is called desire.

[50:21]

And desire is the most intrinsic thing in our life. What do we associate ourselves with? As myself. My desire is myself. Which is the root of suffering. But there is a way to deal with it. Can you talk a little bit about how original intention and pain and pleasure relate to marriage? our suffering is based in desire and there's a way of dealing with it or doing something about it.

[51:39]

And I'm hearing when you do something about it, the suffering doesn't go away. What do you do about it? Follow the evil path. No, I understand that. What do you do about it? Well, from the beginning, What does he say? The first one is, life is suffering. The cause of suffering. It is through desire. And he doesn't stop there and say, that's just how it is. The first two. The first two is the problem. He suggests there's some way of dealing with it. That's what I'm telling you. The first two is the problem. The second two is the antidote. So, once the antidote has been placed, what's the result? More of the first two? You just changed it because it really traditionally doesn't say deal with it, it says end it. Yeah, that's right. And you're saying it's not a question of ending it.

[52:41]

And you're saying it's dealing with it, not ending it. And that's a change from the tradition. Well, ending is, that's right, traditionally it says put an end to suffering. And I say deal with it. But it's ending pain. It's ending suffering, not ending pain. It's ending suffering, not ending pain. and that you're going someplace, you know, you have your life, which is suffering, based in desire, and there's something that you can do about it. The question is, once you've done that something about it, are you back to desire and suffering?

[53:46]

So what happens? What happens is that you change your life from creating suffering. In other words, you stop creating karma which causes suffering. But the suffering, there still may be suffering around. Well, there's always suffering around. But you just stop adding to it. In other words, you can stop creating the karma which causes your suffering. You understand? In other words, you know, you stop blaming everybody else for your problems. It's the first one. And look at how you create your own suffering.

[54:50]

No matter what anybody does to you in this world, no matter how anybody treats you in this world or does something to you, you stop blaming them for your suffering. And you start looking at how you create your own suffering. No. Can you end it? You're suffering. That's not the end of it. So it can be ended. It can't be ended. That's different, no. But everything changes so the end is not very temporary. It can be ended by dealing with it. Right? So that's why I say you deal with your suffering. There's a way to deal with your suffering. That's what I say. I don't say you end your suffering. I say there's a way to deal with your suffering, which may or may not end it. I don't guarantee that it's going to end your suffering, but you can deal with it.

[55:52]

It's real. Like, in other words, I'm saying, under your effort, don't worry about the ideal. You may say, I can't end my suffering. Look, these guys are all still suffering, you know. They're all practicing Buddhism. They're all still suffering. Right? Isn't that right? Well, I think that's a legitimate question. You know, Bob's saying, why should we make all this effort if we're just going to suffer just as much? And I think that's one of the fundamental questions. You know, didn't Duncan ask that question? We're already enlightened, what are we doing this for? That's right, because if you don't do it, then you really have suffering. Even though these people look like they're suffering, they're not suffering as much as a lot of other people who are suffering. See, that's right, if I say, end suffering, then people will think, oh, then there'll be no more suffering, there'll be no more pain, there'll be no more problems, blah, blah, blah.

[57:21]

But that's not what ending suffering means. Well, it's also a question of a separate entity, then you can think about maybe you can do it. But if you think of all of us as one entity, then you're just like a cell operating in this big organism. And so you're doing your best, but that doesn't necessarily directly change this cell a foot over here or two feet over here. Well, that's a good point, because in order to end our suffering, it means we have to end the suffering of everybody in the world. As long as there's somebody in the world suffering, then I'm suffering too.

[58:28]

Perhaps if your suffering is at the extent where it can't be restrained, one ought to sit, just sit in samsara alone somewhere for the rest of your life. See, this is the problem. This kind of end suffering is a good thing to say. And ideally, it's right. We cannot end suffering as long as there's still somebody else suffering. We can't end our own suffering until everyone has stopped suffering. So that's not realistically possible. But we're always making the effort to end suffering in the world. Not just my suffering. We end suffering in the world. Yes.

[60:07]

That's right. Thank you.

[60:50]

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