Sojun And JiJuYu Zanmai

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are you couldn't
warning
good morning oh
i'm going to
talk about seventeen i met him in
im probably a of the nineteen eighty eight
i started indulge as with a treat their weekend retreat and found there was a berkeley's and center but i used to sit
this the first forty minutes those of you who only know the zone schedule he is to be that you sat for an hour ah but after forty minutes that was a conch on the big bell and you could change position where you could leave if you needed to run i did need to so i left so
so i had no idea what was going on behind my back
it is various bells and things and i never stayed for service or the first few months and
i always were a particular green cotton sweater
what if my uniform i guess and and what i knew was that the surgeon came in the zendo and i had some sense i guess that he walked around and i learned to put my hands and got show as he passed
and then he left and i knew that he was however of the san francisco sensor
so what i thought was that he opened hours don't know and then he jumped in his car and go across the bridge and opens san francisco zen center i had no idea where he worked
and he went to do dog son i know now but when i thought i had this great image of him with a little ray on
with a scarf around his neck and intellect like snoopy looks like when he's in a cartoon no rushing across the bay
that was my first impression and then i finally met him what he gave a talk at or green up i used to go there on sundays and am
and so after after the lecture there be a break and t and stuff in them and then reconvene in in the wheelwright center for question answered discussion and so i am i introduced myself he said he recognized the sweater
anna so that was the first time i met in
and

i started going to a drop in group
i don't know i think it was on monday nights then i don't know but at any rate it was led by maley and so i got to know maley scott and she became what i would call my practice leader
and that group became kind of my song because since i left and that for after forty minutes i didn't really know warning people that much and i only knew
he it was ronnie and charlie and i don't remember that a couple of other people we all arrived at about the same time and park and nausea and walked in together
so that was nice that was my song that that one
and melee was a wonderful mentor and great introduction to practice and encouraged me to have a relationship with surgeon and so i started seeing him i also was confused there was a sign enron it's still there but no longer
and there was a sign about dope song and how to sign up for it and it referred to him as mel and then it referred to him in a sentence later as sojourn so i didn't know about was one person
it was at that maybe it was to people
the finally i got up the nerve that might have went to see him and m and then we started talking hum
and eventually he became a teacher

and
i don't remember exactly it at some like that would have been making and fall of eighty eight or something
and my parents
died in a my mother in in january my father and may have eighty nine so there
oh decline and and guests became very much my practice and
he was he was very helpful as

hadn't meant to talk about a my relationship with him much

i am
miss him a lot
and i'm near tears down

but i wanted to talk about was a i did this during the forty nine days after he died here in l a guy i talked about things that were close to him and his teaching the including on the vendo on which is a ginger you saw nine
there are lots of translations of itself enjoyment samadhi self-fulfilling somebody
minnesota's self realizing somalia self actualizing somebody new
i think i'm going to do that and then if you want to know more about
one relationship with him a my history or something i'm i'm i'm quite willing to talk about it but i feel like you're on various forums but since he died i've been talking about him and then my relationship with him either with him to him or with various groups including busy
and on i feel like i'm
i've said what i
need to save them
oh
we love that teaching
gg view samhain you hurt him i haven't
a been regularly around busy singing or long time
ali since the early two thousands and i started to come back when he was no ill and i was going in the afternoons with wonderful to bow out with him as precious
and then and then weighing everything shut down so
but i assume i think it's probably a fair assumption that he continued to talk about je jr son
it's routes as it when i started this place he told me i'm just talk about sauce and it's all i ever talked to them documents awesome so i do
yeah
you're probably familiar with this year
the first paragraph a lot on okamura and tiger downlight which some of you may know what some someone you may know
call it a bender why they translate your lives and talk on the whole hearted practice of the way wholehearted
all buddha to target has together have been simply transmitting wondrous dharma and actualizing on utah has some yeah zamboni incomparable awareness is how they translate and com woman's
or which there is an unsurpassable on fabricated wondrous method this wondrous method this wondrous dharma which has been transmitted only from buddha to buddha without deviation has as its criterion g to use on my
did you use that nine which can be that samadi of self receiving or accepting its function or samadi of self enjoyment or self augment so filament self fulfillment so
what is there
because we're always talking about no self and surgeon used to say you you need you need an ego in order to better manage your life
but it doesn't i'd now this is the way i talk about it now and i don't remember if he actually said them of this part but he may very well have any with that that it it doesn't it should not be it doesn't need to be this big beach ball in front of you needs to be a little cantaloupe or a saucepot over here
and what we usually does will put it right in the middle
and we're young call that our small-scale small s self
and we cause ourselves and others no end of trouble because i'm having this big
event right in front of us again protecting us maybe
i just am reminded of an experience i had a tassajara long time ago hum
i just i just had this image on you know this it is the things that started it wasn't with words it was just
like a maybe a movie or something but just nothing searches it's a good
an insight that's physical anyway it was that i had that i was carrying around a bag of shit
maybe another name for the baseball and then i did not put it down that it was it was getting it right ear protecting but my my horror my solar plexus for him i got and know
and i realized he saw that i didn't want to put it down because it was warm it was protecting me from who knows what and it was mine
and and that it had even though it smelled and it was heavy
i wanted it i thought i needed it
and i don't know that i put it down in that
experience but i have had a really clear no physical sense of wanting to protect myself
and
i think the self
the self that we're talking about and juju have some mine is not
that big capital s self that we talk about sometimes which is
the universal self all been
thus it whatever
the absolute self which encompasses all think that it's it's talking here about the small as self
and
maybe i rarely say but but maybe it is but the small cell some but just this one over here just the little candle
what would it be like yes
you put down your bag of shit or if you know
def link the beach ball
that might be fine you know that's got it's got a little valve can you could open it up and it by fly like a balloon fly
just to let that go
what would it be like
if you stopped crying so hard to protect
defend
yourself
what if you wholeheartedly and wholesome lee simply
allowed yourself to express itself
without anything extra
one of the important distinctions he taught me the said pam we tend to use the word vulnerable and i feel vulnerable
and that
the
effort
is to be open
there was when you feel vulnerable and thank you vulnerable to an attack or something something's something in son
after you and your you're vulnerable
getting hurt
where did
and when you open
you just open is this is the gesture
and what would it be like what would it be like a useful question what would it be like to just be open
the simply respond
he's simply said zazen and allow
the myriad dharmas to come forth and experienced themselves
you still need a little ego you still need the capacity to
i guess a bake
and to experience those dharmas
sitting in a at a small quiet pool in the forest
and if you go looking for all the dear you're never going to see him
if you sit down and are quiet
they will come
and drink
and you can experience
the dear darkness
as they
experience themselves
there's great
liberation near as great joy there and i think that is the self fulfilling the self
and you'll just be one of the people
in the universe
we so often feel a need to control it and haven't come out the whether we want or to avoid what we don't want to help

here we've been studying the heart sutra in i learned i studied it with sojourn my first draft history to trust her
and where he can use the text from the tigers cave than and though long article by abbott or worry
and he talks about having an empty heart
and that
when you're not
adding onto it
when you're simply responding it isn't that you don't have tiers if you're sad or laughter
it's that they don't leave a trace
what would it be like
since awesome
when we're sitting sometimes
there's that experience of just sitting in other words there's just breath breathing is not angry i'm sitting or my knee hurts there's just grass
there's just need hurting
i know for me sometimes when i'm settled
lots arise and then it's like a bubble just bursts and the the thought doesn't even complete itself and i don't care i'm not invested in i'm not robbing it i'm not trying to push it away ages
and it's okay

i want to tell you to stories of months one is about aren't to start with the one about the empty heart when we were studying that i i worked in the kitchen like the first session there because i'd already sat three i think in the i started in september so i'd already sad a bunch and we were very very very short handed it
as a practice period of i think about twenty five people
so i thought okay i work in the kitchen i've always heard i've heard about it about working in the kitchen and working the whole session and having as sixteen in the kitchen and
that and i did they won't turn out was just they weren't doing a session and the kitchen there were just take care of the kitchen and i was gonna disappointed
and the cancer was sitting on the a hooker ten the assistant was was leading the kitchen and i don't remember the when it was about but there was some exchange when i was kind of sharp with her
and then and i felt bad about it and i spent like the next to gaze working on
getting through an empty heart and it was hard you know letting go of wanting to blame her and wanting to justify myself and getting in touch with
the ego which was saying out how dare you insult me me me
and the a with that because it hurts know it's also very funny but it hurts and a and i was angry and and i was right
at all it
on and on and a home
finally hit on i maybe the last day or second to the last day or but finally i got to the point where i could just say i'm i'm sorry i was shocked with you
and of course she didn't even know what i was talking about
i i i needed to apologize cause i didn't like
and was right or wrong older was getting around
so come shows on at the app on every i know not everybody who show signs of the end of longer have a lancia days machine
each person has the opportunity to ask a dharma question that's close to their heart
of the whoever is leading this machine
so i figured out a way to ask the didn't
identifying the no spam had been with or anything and i just said that even had this is issue and and i had worked to get to an empty heart and felt like a cost a lot that was really are and and i said does it get any easier as it felt like
it costs a lot and and
does it get easier and he'd be looked at me he said don't be stingy
i can't hear you laughing you know
welcome
anyway
so don't be stingy
this
he's you use on my
self enjoying some money when you know when i once i got there the that empty heart it was
a joyous thing
once i worked through only he go on wholesome stuff i gotta wholeheartedness
the and the heart his whole hearted

and in my old age i forgot the other thing house them and the other story but
yonder
think of another story
oh i didn't
i think i was there for this
and i'm ninety nine point shirt nine per cent your him at any rate some a sojourn have lectured and in the question and answer actress a young man raised his hand and said
i'm relatively new to this i've only been doing it for a few months and when i see tarzan i might just drives me crazy i'm just thinking all the time and thinking and thinking and an arm
does it does it i think he said it doesn't get any easier
in surgeon said you know the difference between you and me get this young man's there's no and surgeon said
i think to but it doesn't bother
as bother
that's changing the sunlight small line is there the selfish they're thinking thoughts but they don't bother
as he's not grasping after them is not swatting them all
they're just doing their thing and his knees in his back and his breath and doing their thing
and he's simply present
which i know this isn't to say and minutes

pajama tops about it in his commentary to the bento won
younger she was a japanese modern japanese teacher
who taught com okamura
and
he wrote a commentary on the bed no-one
does the book that i was reading if the boat this is a translation of his the of the vendor was but also with jonas commentary hundred
at any rate
uchiyama talks about it as he saying that it in a way
it's about knowing that you're deluded and accepting that your to move to teach you new some nine
and stopping
insisting on getting somewhere or getting rid of something

i have a motto which is trying doesn't work
we are that's even that small cell is when we do we think
the default is i think that i am
a permanent solid event
maybe not permanent you know if you ask me if i'm going to die enough to say yes but
i don't go around thinking about it
but i do an and i think that i
i exist here in this world when you exist and i can see a few faces on my screen as a little
strip with
six best
and i think you there and here's a teaching stick
here's a cup
oh with water in it
that was given to me by a woman named cole i think
and it's been a long time

oh and i'm i'm picking and choosing all the time we're living in this relative diluted were on only after
there was
you couldn't hear me

though in order to function we live in an undiluted world that that time treats things are sir
permanent and a solid
hurt your total if you pick the kid
so that needs to be okay
can't
you can't live and function as you
and relate to me you can't do that in the absolute

why they call it the hazy moment of enlightenment because it has to include
accepting
things as it is another socialism has a
he says be suzuki roshi use that phrase and according to surgeon he was questioned like did what he even things as they are
and he said no things as it is and surgeon loved that as you probably you
but it's important for ginger was on mine
let the self be the self
enjoy it
but would that be like there's a great joy and
wholehearted acceptance of things as it is
the great joy and letting go of all the extra

and zaza is where away
practice it
and expressing

he wants certain and maybe murder when southern where he said something if somebody asked him something of that size and he said you know just said like it don't like it doesn't matter at all just sip
sometimes when know like it so said anyway
he also said the system somewhat of a side that i think it's useful to remember to every time he said every time i said oh when i sit down i give myself sauce and instruction for you know a check if i'm sitting up straight and
notice where my genius and are are my ears in line with my shoulders of my nose of mine i need
and one thing that really stuck with me over the years
is that he said push up with your breastbone no not out not like the marines just up
a restaurant ending your shoulders naturally open him and followed
oh
that's gg use on my simply whole heartedly assuming
wholeheartedly letting go of thoughts
wholeheartedly noting noticing what's going on in your body when you're irritated when you don't want to sit if you're sitting there grumbling
there was not pushing it away or not saying years of i should be enjoying us they said his self enjoyment why shouldn't a enjoyed what's wrong with me i must be doing it wrong
i'll be not
well you are because you doing all that extra
top of not wanting
the not wanting to not want that's the problem

so
the next paragraph i love
i don't remember him talking about this and these terms so much better i predicted like this translation or just sporting oneself freely in this in this samadi juju as online practice exhaustion in upright posture is the true gauge although this dharma
it is apparently inherent is abundantly inherent in each person it is not manifested without practice it is not attained without realization when you let go the dharma fills your hands
it is not within the boundary of one or many when you try to speak it fills your mouse it is not limited to vertical or horizontal

when you let go the dharma fills your hands
when you let go the beach ball deflates
when you try to speak it fills your mouth
you could interpret to opposite ways and i think that's fine we're in a dead i don't know that i said bender wise i am toga
the thirteenth century founder of our school
anyway it fills your mouth you can think of it alice
when you speak the dharma comes forth
you can also think of it as
it silences you
i don't know if you've had the experience i hope you have sometimes especially and sheen
you just fall
there's just silence and it's hard to talk
and you don't have the impulse to talk and sometimes people will come for a joke son
and they just
have nothing to say
i was son
he showed for her a norman fischer had got was a green gulch for a while and he had a practice of when on people were sitting there for a session he would call them and he would win for them to sign up just called the chat with them and so i was
would go and get them for him and there were i don't know it's a practice period and there were maybe
six or eight people in that said been that category and charges
they would be in there for like two minutes and then be out and had yet another one and during a break i asked him about it and he said they they didn't want to talk
i think that was pretty nice

and the park

that image of a when you let go it fills your hands you've heard all kinds of variations in them
don't you hold the bird to time you kill it you would let it go and maybe it'll come back someone you love let him go and then if they'd come back of their own accord than you know

there is there is a great joy
in letting go
it's not i was easy
i
this phrase for disporting oneself freely in this summoning
zazen is true gate
the sporting oneself really what a wonderful image i think of dolphins never see i'm lucky there are sometimes around the golden gave some field
and baker beach you consume and they're very they're just
swimming and jumping and then that seems to be a wonderful image of disporting for me
and when we when we are
not stingy when we're willing to pay the price of getting too
an empty heart
when we're willing
the practice this gg the sunlight this
letting
letting the small self be
without
inflating it
and also without online get you know don't don't try to make it into a golf ball

that goods and stop trying and stop thinking of my notes
fairly were once gave me a ten which i still have and melt okay yeah please where i used to wear it i used to wear it on the on the inside of my robe tassajara
the every so often i come across it and i think i should put that back on we should all have any way the button says stop thinking and let things happen
then i am grateful for it

oh i think our job
if you choose to accept it is to make this effort
the see clearly as possible
where were holding on where we're pushing away where we're adding extra
and to do the homework if you on
necessary to let go of all the extra and then this wonderful lightness
this is joy arises not the joy necessarily have you been whereas somebody said
my my zen key is total joy since and know somebody i was contrasting it with another kind of joy and somebody said so yours is the joy of sex and chocolate
i think yes when oh but i'm not talking about the joy of sex and chocolate so much as is a a deeper kind of
a self-fulfilling
that go that longing for
an essential self
don't want to leave time for discussion or questions or comments or whatever so
thank you

so
good sanga as you all know
you the participants you open up participants at the bottom our hands and those are already raising ah so i will call on people and
i asked the you ask a question
a direct question so first of ellen web i invite you to unmute yourself and ask a question

hi mary i thank you for your target and thank you for being with us today and it's nice to have you here and ah and i appreciated her talk am and i just i just stumbled over one thing you said one word you use and which is a word i often stumble over
we're actually am and it was when you were talking about year surf harsh words in the tassajara kitchen and and then use talked about hum
having to work on getting to an open heart and you use the word work a couple of times and i always sort of stumble over that word like if what we're doing is letting go or not trying
you know working seems am
i don't know just it's not a word that i can really relate to so that's my question
don't be stingy
yeah but i mean is that work yes above it my my experience of my needing to ah you're wanting to arrive at an empty heart my wanting to
fine
myself
without the on
a version or clinging
my need to get to wholeheartedness it was fighting all art and an mpr to be the same thing but
it is work because i it
well i'm sorry what's the work i have to sit still for unpleasantness
because it i have to i have to touch that part that's that's hurting or have part that's resentful that part that says well what about me
no it's also know i'm a i'm a preacher of oh young and analysis so you it because padilla was alec close because do ancient twisted family karma
and i have do i have to allow that and i have to feel the hum
the hurt and get underneath the anger and i have to
allow myself to do that and and set aside
the chatter on top
but not with denying it but just seeing it for what it is and what's underneath this what's underneath this and it's usually some kind of burnt
but i don't wanna feel it
ah so that's it is work for me it is an anna it's work that i do with with such joy and with a lot more ease now than i did then it does get easier
oh
but i still think of that in oh don't be stingy do do it and it's a stingy with
you're on
effort
oh it's something like that but it it's alive for me as you know as a lot of it's body it not so much about the story but the body and but it does feel like work but it isn't work in order to get something through so this lancet with advanced the difference is not in order to win it so it's
not a grasping at a a new it doesn't work to insist on on not
exceeding them avenue was succeeded words sometimes are taken a long time have been down into the couple of days
it was only a five days your hundreds of i understand what you're saying in it's clear to me i did not the word i would use that it is clearly okay
it gives you this new come up with another one

marry somebody asks in the chat where you are meditating and you don't worry about having monkey mind how do you know you're not just being lazy
oh i get lazy it down
lazy pursue as the thoughts lazy gets on emulated i like to say don't get on the train of thought or suzuki roshi said you know don't invite them in for fourteen so lazy is just sitting there thank you
i'm not talking about sitting there thinking i'm talking about sitting there and letting letting thoughts be thoughts just like left the deer come to the poor but the thoughts be thoughts
they have your online
don't i don't get entangled with don't get pulled around by the us virgin used to say especially about the a sudden they're pushing for any
i don't know who else the novels
i invite ben to meet yourself and ask a question
hi mary thank you so much for your talk i thank you can i i don't mean to be rude to you ban but i i would appreciate people than keep saying thank you for your talk
because i made a good sound very much to me like you meant it and that's fine but sometimes i think people to sound like they're being polite
and it's one of my many a piece
okay raining just idea element too fast and so i didn't get a chance to say no i understand okay thank you so my question for you earlier in your talk you talked about how sojourn helped you
you found surgeon helpful as you were practicing with the decline of your parents and in the loss of them move on i don't know if you have anything more to say or share about that in what way
a surgeon was helpful in what way your practice unfolded during that and if you prefer not to say anything that's okay to now i'm happy to talk about it and minutes eighty nine as a long time ago
then i have to tell you that is
well he gave me
he gave me the on case fifty five that will look live record
which is famous it's the alive again one without a teacher and them young monk go to visit a family that's just lost somebody and here's a there's a coffin in them
the family are there there there with the fighting
the
the family's not in the room i many more than that the a young monk hits the continent and he says teacher tell me alive or dead after know
and the teacher says i won't saying i won't say
and the kid name
good again remember but any rate at them they're heading back toward back to the monastery and all the sudden the i'm young monk stop since his teacher i have to know alive or dead if you don't tell me on hit you and the teacher says
it may if you need to and i won't say
and the kid does it
and then the teacher says you know you've given me a bloody nose and you better
leave now because if you go back with me to the monastery you're gonna be in deep deep trouble
and so the young man goes off
later he comes back to new wages for but that i won't say i won't say
was tremendously useful to me and i i have to chew on it no hidden hidden explain it to me at all
they just said you might want to take a look at cases fifty five of the brooklyn record
wow
and so i did and i first thought
my first response was how mean and rude that teacher was because he didn't say i can't say neither saying i won't say
what's that and i just i just kept reading it because i kept saying as i figured he wouldn't get sojourn would not give it to me for no reason so i just kept reading it over and over again and on at one point i was sitting
under a hair dryer
i had here and then
and i was reading it has kind of in the back of a salon and and by myself and i know
it was reading it anna and on
i was just struck
but like you know like getting socked in the solar plexus you know not at the thought wasn't initially wasn't a thought was just blown and then i had the impulse which i did not who being in a public place i want to just throw the book and the after the inside than the words came when it was something about
there's nothing to say you just have to accept it
and there were other inside some in i kept i kept working on an end on and he and i talked about death and dying in in i'll tell you one experienced that i had that i'm sure arose out of the know
what was the c'mon
and that was that i'm i had i was sitting zazen and i had this image that death classic three
oh came into the zendo and that sec champions over took me outside to the that porch
and pointed towards a grassy area in front of foul
allen's office and i'm and what i saw was that a shadowy outlines of adults falling down and then melting into the ground and where each adult fell a little chinese post your baby
oh sprang up you know they look like with israel pink jackson am i was wonderful smiles on their faces and i said to death
then why do we cry and guess said because it's important
and i told sojourn about that
and i and i said india said because it's important and he said what had just been and
i hadn't even thought about
i mean i don't know that i could have said much because i understand it intuitively but ah
but i hadn't thought about that and he brought me up short and i don't think the right i had an answer me now i can give you a whole dharma talk but that's beside the point at any rate that's how i mean was tremendously helpful as he kept you know he kept he was supporting me to do the
forgive me i want to do the homework around it
oh i know if you want to talk about it sometime that's and one way ticket from
and i'm so bad some time thank you mary

ah think that's
oh wow i can tell to that would spring into a compose shadowy on
ah we will go ahead and the are
the go on will clunk and will say the vows chairs the other objects that the patrick's iphone as a handrail yes it does it as in it disappeared and then he came back yes you have
have an extra minute the we have an extra minute patrick would you like to meet yourself and ask her brief question

google
okay our next year
scott
i drifted get it out on merely this is a very quick question you should you might be able to address it in a word ah i'm thinking of you earlier this morning because i was in the berkeley ball at the beginning of the pair german
and i think we were just being there data to wear masks when he went into the ball i was seen your our ah
and you're wanted few other people in story
i was so happy to see you you are out of place for me the lay all now you're in berkeley ah and you were wearing a mask for a moment
didn't recognize you and then it snapped into place and i step towards you
and you back off
and in that moment i realized
she's taking care of herself
that's what was going on in my my barry ah you are properly defending yourself
what was it reminded that moment as you might not remember at all i mean so i i like i don't remember and i believe you because i do that and i don't think of it is defended myself so much as taking care of myself and may be taken care of the other person yeah
if i'm a people come
i'm now i'm completely vaccinated but but i'm still trying to be careful about stuff like that so people come closer than six feet then i can to move back
i don't i don't have didn't have i don't know that i had much of anything in my mind except oh oh this person's to close and i don't know if i recognized you right away i have a patrick i don't know the short answer is i don't know
was nothing personal oh well i took it personally for about thirty seconds and i realized oh the
exact yeah all right thank you you're welcome