flower. At Shaolin Temple it blossomed forth the five petals of Zen. More recently it has been seen as a rattlesnake guarding the Tassajara road. Sometimes it is a dragon devouring heaven and earth. Sometimes it is a Vajra sword giving and taking life. Sometimes it's an old plum tree on Russell Street bearing fruit for all sentient beings. I now hold the staff in my hands. Though just a mosquito biting an iron bull, I cannot give it away. Dragons and elephants, let us bring forth the Dharma. Please give me your questions. Shiso. Hi. Tell me, what is true confidence? sitting together with your friends all the time.

[01:08]

It's to sit here through all things, even when the baby is crying upstairs. But not to forget the baby. During this last session, I kept thinking of a scene in the movie Repo Man, where there's a pair of empty boots, sort of smoking, because this character has just been evaporated by a substance from outer space. And another character looks into the boots and says, Sometimes that happens. People just explode. During sashimi, the fires burn freely. Desire, thought, emotion. Why is it that the zendo smells of June and of incense instead of scorched hair and flesh? Well, there's still smoke. There's lots of smoke. But no fire? There's fire. There's all kinds of fire. is fire for all of us, but no one got burned.

[02:39]

I think it's because of compassion. So what is patience in the face of conflict? Well, I'm working on that one. Tell me more. Yeah. I'm going to try. That wasn't the whole answer. I think it's remembering to keep your center, remembering to keep your breath and your feet, and remembering that the other person has just as strong concerns and just as strong a right to them as you do. In today's world, sometimes it seems the water isn't just muddy, but it's polluted.

[03:52]

How do we live with purity today? We clean up the waters as best we can, and we live with the pollution as best we can, and we keep trying again and again to point out to people that they have an option to improve themselves and improve and clear the waters, even when it doesn't work. Shiso, during the practice period, what incidents gave you an opportunity to polish your own practice? Well, some of them I don't think I can talk about. I think I constantly polish my practice in our family life.

[05:00]

That's one place. The fact of going back and forth to work, between work and the zendo, Even though my work is Buddhist work, it was very hard. And that was another opportunity for practice. And seeing what's going on in the world, and feeling sometimes despair and powerless to make any change, that is always an opportunity for practice. What's a nice Jewish boy like you doing in a place like this? I could ask you the same question. Why do you want to know? I don't know.

[06:04]

I just feel at home here. I felt at home the minute I walked in. Is that enough? How about you? So, after coming to the center for well over a year and being very contented and feeling very at home here, I sat my first machine and dealt with my first resistance feelings, which were very shocking. Do you have anything you could say to help with that? Yeah, you're very lucky. Why should it always be so wonderful? Is the rest of your life still wonderful? You know, if the rest of your life is great, then you might be here, you might not be here. But you're lucky. Thank you. Shuso.

[07:06]

Yes. I see you at work at the Buddhist Peace Fellowship, and I see you here bringing up your practice, and you have your family life, and I know you have your life as a musician. And I'd like to know, during the practice period, How did you learn about living a simple life and renunciation that you could help me with? Well, two parts. First, I'm trying to say no to things. It's very hard. Laurie encourages me, but not enough. And I'm encourageful. That's one part. The other part is that our practice, I come to think of our practice as the renunciation of renunciation, which is a very difficult practice. I've been reading a book about Taoist and Chinese monks, present-day monks and hermits, and they keep talking about how peaceful it is in the mountains, far from the land of the red dust.

[08:14]

But when the mountains are being destroyed, There's no place to practice but in the midst of the great dust. So that's where you and I are. Shuso. Yes. When the tiger bares its teeth, what will you do? Probably send him to the orthodontist. Are you a dentist? No. That's why I'll send him to somebody else. I don't want to put braces on the tiger's teeth. What makes you think the tiger needs braces? Well, they're crooked. You wouldn't want to have a tiger with an overbite, would you? What would you want to have a tiger for? I wouldn't want to have a tiger for everything, is your question. Do you think the tiger would go willingly to the orthopedist if you sent him? Maybe it depends on who's paying the bills.

[09:18]

Shuso. Yes. Master Chi left Emperor Wu with little more than smoking boots. What does your compassionate Master Chi say to my pathetic Emperor Wu? I think Master Chi left him with a lot. I think Master Chi... How much clearer could he be? telling him not to send somebody. I mean, he could have flat out told him to go himself, but that would have been an insult to the Emperor. Well, the commentator gives a little hint. You know, always look for Aval Pidishvara.

[10:29]

She's never very far away. That's a good answer. Thank you. Shisto. Hai. What is practice in the United States in the 90s? Zazen, work, babies, jogging, many things, everything that your life consists of. There's no reason why that's not practice. It's just a question of your intention. So, how do you know what is practice and not practice?

[11:45]

Are you prepared to make an offering with your life? Each thing that you are willing to offer, each activity, each thought that you are willing to offer, that consecrates it as practice. Shiso, I'd like to know in the end of our lives, what is it that really matters? That's a serious question.

[12:45]

And I don't think there's any one answer. I've heard it said that what really matters in the end is how well we've loved. I think it's also how well we're loving right then. I don't think you're going to have a lot of opportunity to remember as much as you wish. Shuso. Yes? You can't go backwards. You refuse. You can't go forward. You can't move. What is it, Alan, right now? Sitting in this seat, wishing I could stop to take a drink of cool water. But you can't.

[13:50]

Yes, I can. Be my guest. Thank you. I'm also thirsty. Would you like some water? Yes. I would like to know if anger and ill will in thought form only prior to action is karmically negative. Yes. Next question. No, go ahead. As much so as if it were volitional and turning into action.

[14:53]

I don't know as much. I can't measure as much. I don't have a meter to measure it or regulate it. But it causes karma. It has an effect. But you may not be able to do anything about it. So forgive yourself for it and it will make less karma. Thank you, Shantanu. I liked your story about the time you couldn't preserve the ancient trees. and now is probably going to prison for that. I was inspired. But then I was wondering about my response. We humans often tell stories about such lives. Is that because they're extraordinary or so very ordinary? Well, I think they're extraordinary and

[15:58]

They're ordinary in exactly the sense that Sojourn was talking about when he told us about ordinary mind is the way. It's being totally human in a very plain and direct way, and that's why it's inspiring. I imagine that's the way most of us hope that we can be, and we have that option. I continue to miss the obvious. Can you tell me? Yeah, I think we should give you more bells. When you had only one bell, you missed bells. When you had two bells, you missed fewer bells.

[17:00]

And now you have three in front of you. So I think that the idea would be to give you a whole lot of them. Just, you know, keep practicing it. Shusam. Hi. In Calvin and Promises, when Calvin asked his father, where does the wind come from? So, is the nature of the wind permanent? You didn't sit this session with us, did you? I suffered greatly at the loss. Yes, right. Well, you would think that the nature of wind was permanent if you sat this session with us. Why is that?

[18:02]

Because the secretions were constant. What? From the trees, from the noses, from the minds, all those things. Is that why you all are so mixed up today? So speak for yourself. I am only that. Thank you. Shuso. Who? Where? Shuso. Yes. Please tell us. Is this an interview for Reader's Digest? Are we still in Sesshin, sort of? I'll tell you my most memorable experience in the last couple of days. Just before I was getting dressed, and Sylvie was upstairs, she's saying, where are you going?

[19:04]

I said, I'm going to a ceremony, the Shuso ceremony. She said, oh, you're going to a ceremony? Why? I really don't know. He said, well, why are you going? I said, I don't know. He says, well, who's making you do it? Who talked you into it? What? Who talked you into it? Yes, thank you. Right. Who talked you into it? That's better. So. Hi. It's alive or dead. I think it's case 57 from the Blue Cliff record. Tawu's condolence call. That's all? I get off the hook? Good.

[20:06]

Jusil, every time I pictured asking you a question, within minutes or moments, the answer came. What is teaching? What is true compassion? I think true compassion starts with completely loving oneself and then understanding that There is no one that's not that self. Nothing that's not that self. So, if you were in the place of the Emperor, what would you ask for the Dharma?

[21:19]

How can I help you? Anything else? Can I be your student? So, when Ephraim asked Bodhidharma what his name was, Bodhidharma said, or rather he asked, who are you? Bodhidharma said, I don't know. That feels to me like standing on the edge of a great precipice. And that precipice is very attractive to me. It's something I dream about. And yet, when I try to jump into it and trust it, invisible barriers keep me on the edge.

[22:27]

If you have a taste of this precipice, do you have a word of advice for me? I don't think of it as a precipice. I think of it as just standing on the ground. It's very easy, but I think it takes a lot of hard work to know where your feet are and how they meet the ground. I don't know if that's helpful. What you saw in our meal chant I was reading Dogen the other day and he talked about various spirits and things.

[23:29]

Isn't this, talking about spirits, isn't that mysticism? Is that really what we're about? You don't have voices in your head? Those are spirits. Why not? Do they ask you for things? Do they seem unsatisfied? That's right. So... What... The story about Bodhidharma... And it makes me want to know...

[24:30]

What value, what good to all sentient beings and non-sentient beings is a man who does not know who he is? I think he knew very well who he was. I just don't think he wanted to be anyone that the Emperor could identify for the Emperor's sake. It was for the Emperor's sake that he didn't know who he was. It was out of kindness to him. Real, deep, compassionate effort. And sadly, it didn't work. But, Shuso, I don't know who I am. What good am I Well, you're sitting here with the rest of us trying to figure it out.

[25:39]

All of us are trying to figure it out. And there are a million more painful and destructive things that you could be doing with that question at this moment. You're doing something very compassionate and helpful for all of us. Well, I mean, I could give you some Zen answer, I suppose. We're two and one. We're very far apart in this room, about as far as you can get in this room. And yet we're all in this, we're both in this room, contained here in one organism.

[26:41]

If we are one, why didn't I know what your answer would be? I don't know. Why worry about it? Does that bother you? I'm bothered by the statement that the whole world, the whole universe is in me and yet I don't know the other beings in this sendo? Well, I live on this block and there are a lot of people I don't know on this block, but I know that I live here. So how can it be said that the whole universe is in my moment instantaneous being? It sounds like a big problem for you.

[27:50]

I can't answer it. I'll work on it, thanks. So, what is the teaching of a monk on the other side of the world who ordains trees? It's the same as what we receive from our teacher. teaching of wisdom, teaching of meditation, teaching of morality, it's exactly the same. Why that expression? What expression? The expression of ordaining trees. Because he's taking care of what's right in front of him. If Mel were in the forest, if you were in the forest, and they were cutting down trees all around you, you would probably find some way to take care of him.

[28:55]

This is the best way that Papa Chak could find. Is it honored? Is it? Is it honored? It's honored to the point where they want to throw him in jail, yeah. They take it seriously enough that they feel he's a threat. So they take it pretty seriously. Well, it's happened to me. And I just had to go and lie down and breathe.

[29:58]

And after a while, I saw that it was panic. And nothing bad was going to happen. Did you think about anything when you were lying down or did you just continue to panic? I really tried to breathe. It's very scary though, I know. But when it happens, you can also ask for some help. It's hard to be alone with it. So maybe ask for some help. Why do I have a hard time holding that in my mind?

[31:06]

I think that's a good answer. I don't. But I have to think about it. We'll talk about it. I think you and I can talk about it. Shusos. What are tears at a Shusos ceremony? I don't know, but it happens a lot. Usually it feels pretty good. I think it's an expression of love. Are you having them? Thank you, Jeff.

[32:07]

Good. So, as I continue with my practice, will my back and my legs hurt more or will they hurt less? No knowing. Do you really? What if I said they would hurt more? I'm taking a survey. How do we cultivate joy in the midst of a process that is so much about suffering? Well, I have to put the baby to bed right now. Can you call back in about a half an hour? No. That's what I do when people call me with surveys at this hour. Can you ask it again?

[33:10]

How do we cultivate joy in a practice that is so much around suffering? Didn't we just do it? Thank you. How do you reconcile your practice, your travels in Southeast Asia and your concerns there with the problems in our neighborhood in Oakland and Berkeley, the social problems here? This is something that troubles me a lot because it's a lot easier for me to deal It's a lot safer to deal with problems in Southeast Asia for me than it is to deal with problems around the block, because I can leave.

[34:15]

And I always do. So this is the practice that begins after the practice period. It's already begun, but this is what I hope to look at. There's no reconciliation. I mean, there's no difference between what's happening there and what's happening here. So the difference is put yourself, make yourself open and at risk, and take care of yourself at the same time. Xu Song. Yes. It was said in this room that there are doubting types and faith types. And you said, not in this room, you said you were a strange case because you were a mixture of both. What is doubting on the path of faith?

[35:21]

Well, for some people it's necessary. That's what I say too. What do you doubt? What do I doubt? My understanding. My ability to love. That's a good start. What do you have faith in? Sometimes I have faith in my understanding, my ability to love. I have faith in my friends. And if I pay attention to what my friends express towards me, and what they express towards each other, then it gives me a lot of faith. It really helps soothe the doubt. Are we friends? Yeah. Aren't we? That's a good answer. Shiseo. Hi. You've made wonderful music of your life and your work. What is the song you sing now?

[36:27]

It's the song of Zazen. How does it go? We all know the tune. Can you hum a few bars? This is a question I don't want to answer that way because I've spent time rehearsing it. And it wouldn't be honest. Well, I hear the music now. Thank you. Shuso, two people. One is apologizing to the other. What is the deed that was done that required the apology? thinking that there were two.

[37:45]

Jusel. Hi. Also called Alan. Yes. Po San. Yes. Whatever you like, but not late for dinner. During the six weeks of the practice period, a familiar but subtly different figure emerged. I caught glimpses. I called him in my mind Ozan-sensei, who is Ozan-sensei? I have the slightest idea. Did you become aware of him? Not particularly. Well, I can assure you, he was here. Well, that's lucky for him. No, lucky for us. Thank you. Appreciation. Juso, I feel extremely fortunate to have met you and to be here today. Ditto. I've heard your wonderful music for many years.

[38:56]

Have you ever played with the wooden man? Sure. Sometimes I am him. Does he have a partner? Don't tell her I said that she's done But that's what you do all the time. I mean you do it all the time. There's nothing more that you can do. There's probably a lot more I could do.

[39:57]

And I'm sure I'll hear about it. We've been putting all these things off until tomorrow. Thank you. I love you very much. Shiso. Hi. How do you perceive vast emptiness? I don't perceive it. I'm either in it or I'm not. How do you know? It goes by very quickly. What happens after it goes by? I start thinking again. It starts thinking again? I start thinking again. And then what happens? then the bell rings, or then I do something else.

[41:04]

This is our friend. And then what happens? And then sometimes there's emptiness again. We're in and out of emptiness, even though we're in emptiness all the time. OK. Thank you. Shisho. Hi. Chow Chow said, not knowing his nearest. Do you really think Bodhidharma knew exactly who he was? No, I don't. But I think he knew exactly what the Emperor was asking. And I don't think they are the same. Can you say something? I think, at the risk of explaining too much, I think the Emperor is obsessed with position and wanted to know what was the position before him.

[42:13]

Bodhidharma did not want to leave him anything that would hurt him more. The six Chinese ancestors said, from the beginning not a thing is. I say that's why we make it all up. What do you say? You say what? That's why we make it all up. What do you say? I don't really think about such things. You're lucky. Does the middle way encompass evil views and unwholesome actions? Is there a difference between encompassing and experiencing?

[43:25]

I'll ask you a different. How are we to practice with these close companions? With as much steel and as much compassion for them as we can manage while keeping our feet on the ground. goes on forever. How are we to deal with this hard road? I just deal with it as best I can, day by day, breath by breath. And if I think about how long the road is, I would just stop right here.

[44:32]

Shuso, great Bodhisattva, layman pang, threw all his possessions into the lake and chose to make his living by carving chopsticks. Nowadays, we students and monks of the way have bank accounts, credit cards, stockbrokers and houses. Are you a monk of body or a monk of mind? A monk of both body and mind. How can you be both at the same time? How can you not be both at the same time? But, as I said before, we're walking a very difficult way Very, very tricky, very difficult.

[45:35]

Renunciation of renunciation, pretty tricky. Yes, shucks, the question was asked before. When this world breaks down, what remains? Some other worlds, not this world. It will be sad. But we won't be full of regrets. But there will be many other worlds.

[46:37]

You saw 10, 20, or 50, or 10,000 words. How do you stand beyond words? You stand with your actions. Words are actions too. actions of words and beyond that. You stand with open arms. Under the clouds. Yes, always under the clouds. Vast emptiness is not being spoken.

[48:12]

Alive or dead? Always alive. Juso, are the Montgomery's dead or alive? Are the Montgomery's dead or alive? Well, physically, the individuals are alive and the Montgomery's are dead. The Montgomery's are always alive. The Montgomery's were never alive. Besides that, are they dead or alive? They're alive. You remember them. I hardly ever think about them. But now I remember them too. So they're brought to life once more. In the case of the Cliff record, he wouldn't say if they were dead or alive. How are you different? You're not my student.

[49:16]

Tanya Montgomery says hello. She said... Hi. Hmm? Alive or dead? Who asked me that question? The Charlie? I gotta talk to you after. Hey! I won't say. I can't say. Still working on it. Haven't resolved it. What's your practice?

[50:20]

My practice is to be as completely alive as I can be. And not to worry. about the moment when that will cease. Okay. Is that okay? Shiso, I'd like to go back to that memorable question and answer pair you had before coming here. I guess with your daughter? Do you take any responsibility for being here now? Oh, yeah. What intention brought you here? To solve the problem of birth and death. Is that your deepest intention? Yeah. And what about compassion for you?

[51:39]

Where does your compassion extend? Well, I'm learning to be compassionate for myself and then I found it spreading ever outwards from that point and I find that it was there in the beginning. Thank you. So, what is this Dharma seal that Bodhidharma brought? What did he do with it? He gave it to us. It's the seal. It's the twining vines of his teachers and their teachers until they're all mixed up together so that their thoughts express one wish. And here we are still working on it. And don't you think we should be grateful to Emperor Wu also?

[52:43]

Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it's very important. I agree. I think he's much more aligned. I feel a lot of both sadness and gratitude for him. Shiso, while I was sitting here listening to you, I noticed that my heart I don't know. But I know that it has to do with everybody's heart opening. When I'm in this room, that seems to be what happens. And because that happens in here, we can take it out of this room.

[53:50]

And it's not as easy outside this room. But little by little, we learned. We've just been sitting here for five days, and it's very open. I'm grateful. Thanks for your help. Shusel. Hi. When you see smoke on the other side of the mountain, When you see horns on the other side of the fence, you understand ox is already there. When, to understand that there are three when one is raised, this is the business of a patch-robed monk. Now, incorrigible one, is a patch-robed monk busy? They're incredibly busy. Always running around. Always being still. Very hard work. Aren't you busy?

[54:53]

All the time. Where were you this week? Gone, gone, gone. I'm glad you're back. Me too. Mr. Son. Hi. All these years trying to save the world. Why do you want to save the world? Did I say that? You've been working very hard for a long time, I think. Yeah, but not as hard as sometimes I think I might. There have been whole years off. That's good. Not so much saving the world. You don't want to save the world? Well, I do. But I'm selfish. You want to save the world? It's my world too. So if Deborah Wu calls you from Washington to join the administration, what would you say? I'd say, I have to talk to Laurie. And she'd probably say, no.

[55:55]

And I'd probably say, sorry. I'm not sure that's the best place for me to be. In fact, I'm sure it isn't. Shiseo. Hi. You mentioned despair. How do you deal with despair? Well, I have some experience at this point that it's not permanent for me. But I don't know how I would deal with it in other situations. I can't put myself in another's actual life. so I can only tell you from my own. How did you find out that despair was not permanent?

[56:57]

How did you find the power of powerlessness? Well, we have this teaching of impermanence and I thought if I look around and I see I see a lot of people that I admire who seem to be following this kind of teaching. Maybe there's something to it. So maybe I should pay attention. And when I paid attention, I noticed it didn't stay around all the time. But it's also been a long time companion. I couldn't do it myself. While at Bodhidharma's grave, he said, alas, I met him without meeting him.

[58:27]

I saw him without seeing him. I encountered him without encountering him. This I will always regret. Something like that. And I know that he regretted it. And I'm not sure that he ever resolved his question. And so I feel sad for him. It's a very lonely place to be an emperor, or king, or president. And to have a question unresolved. That's not always so bad. But to be an emperor and have a question unresolved, that's bad. No, to be anybody and have a question unresolved is painful. But to feel like you've missed an opportunity, and not do something about it, because you feel your position has kept you from it, or you allow your position to keep you from it, that's sad.

[59:35]

I find that sad. So right at the end even, at the last, you felt like you missed an opportunity. I believe so. The difference is one had realized the way and was completely at peace with himself, and the other wanted verification of his position. Did they need each other? I don't think Bodhidharma needed Emperor Wu. Yeah, I think so. No. Well, perhaps he did. It's an interesting question. I don't know. Would we be here talking about Bodhidharma if Emperor Wu and him had become great buddies and dharma pals? I don't know.

[60:36]

Maybe we do need. Maybe he needed him. Yeah, but need is a very tricky word. In any way. I don't think so. Some things we need and some things we don't need. We may have to accept them all, but we don't have to need them. Juso, I thought a lot about equanimity and consanguinity this practice period. And I tried to frame a question about this. But as I did, one fine example of this came back. And so I ask you, caw, caw. One little story that the crow told me. Caw, caw.

[61:40]

In a hickory tree. Is that what you wanted to know? Yes. They're practicing, not if they keep the four vows. Master Tozin said, it is me, but I am not it. What did he mean by that? What does it mean for us? It means don't make yourself into something you're not. So, I'm not my baby's crying. I know. You are your baby's crying. I wonder how you can keep your composure to ask that question when your baby's crying.

[62:45]

It's hard. You're here. he's there and he's you it's you've answered your question When I see Bodhidharma, he looks like my grandfather. And I think of a wandering Jew carrying the Dharma from India, and there were Jews in India then, to China, sending it to Japan, and sending it so far to the East that the East

[63:48]

And I hold him, I give him the blame for a lot of these words that we've had here today. But I also hold Emperor Wu largely responsible. And I'm grateful to him. For Bodhidharma, after all his years of practice, it's not so hard. It's pretty easy. not to know. But for Emperor Wu, who desperately wanted to know, it was a very hard thing. My deepest wish for Emperor Wu is that instead of sending an emissary, he would have just gone, just gone and followed Bodhidharma. When the truth comes, if you're not willing to follow it, then you have to just let it go.

[65:00]

And our regrets are very touching, but they may not be the same that we want to remember in our last moment. So through the support of the Abbot, Sojourner Shuk, and all of you, and all of my friends in the practice period, I've been shuso. I'm deeply grateful for all of your help, but I'm not worthy of it. The mistakes that I have made, and the mistakes that I will make, fill heaven and earth, leaving me no place to hide. If my words or actions have misled any of you, please wash out your ears in the pure sound of the Dharma and keep on with your practice.

[66:14]

I'm afraid I've fallen short of the mark. but I will continue to turn towards practice myself.

[66:25]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ