well welcome um uh i just want to say that i really um i'm really happy about the way we've been holding our practice uh these last couple of months um doing whatever we can to make it work together so that's uh i i can't say how pleased i am that we uh this is the the test you know it's it's how you how you when everything when all your dependencies are over or uh in the background how do you practice so i think we're doing really well and we're uh learning how to do that and actually every day is a different way of uh dealing with our new ways of practicing And so I really want you to feel that I recognize the effort that everybody's making, it really holding together really well.

[01:15]

So given that, Susan, you being first, please ask a question if you have something to say. Sojin Roshi, there's always not knowing. Every day there's not knowing. But right now, we're more acutely aware of knowing that we don't know somehow. So how do we practice with that new understanding of not knowing? Well, you know, you know, you know, not knowing means that you meet every moment in a fresh way. You meet every circumstance in a fresh way.

[02:22]

It's called nothing held in the bottom of the heart. without preconceptions, even though you know many things and we have a lot of information, still to meet everything with nothing at the bottom of the heart and see everything just as it is. This is called the great round mirror wisdom. This is how we practice the great round mirror wisdom in our life. It's not just a term or something. intellectual idea that somebody thought up, and it kind of is, but it's a mirror reflecting everything just as it is without any interference. So this is our practice, to see everything just as it is, which is really hard, because we always have some preconception.

[03:29]

about somebody or whatever we meet. And in many ways, that's important. All those things are important. But fundamentally, what's important, most important, is how to meet everything without preconceptions. It's hard to do. That's what we, in zazen, we can meet everything without preconceptions. It's much harder when we're facing our daily life, a busy life. But even so, it's possible. So this is what we call our practice, to see everything, to make it possible to get beyond our preconceptions and see everything new on each moment. And what do we rely on?

[04:38]

Nothing. I knew you were going to say that. I know. We give ourselves over to our mother. And my mother will take care of us. You know, when we're born, or when we enter the world of breath and water, we're totally helpless. And what do we rely on? We rely on our mothers, or whatever serves as our mothers. And as we grow up, as we age, we rely on various other things besides our mother. But actually, whatever we rely on is our mother. When you think about it.

[05:40]

So our mother takes various forms. Takes the forms of food, drink, sleep, activity, ideas, and so forth. and we depend on those things. And then we live a certain amount of years, and if we know what practice is, we turn ourself over to, it's called, faith is called our mother. When we say I have great faith, it means that we rely on our mother, which is the universe. Our mother is really the universe. We're cosmic children of the universe. And we rely on that. So that's why when we keep our mind open, we let our Buddha nature, which is our mother, take over.

[06:56]

Suzuki Roshi, just talk about that. Zazen is like putting ourselves back in our mother's arms. And this time is a kind of test, you keep saying. For what? A test to see what we will depend on. So... we turn ourselves over. And then the universe, which is our mother, provides everything for us. But without that trust, it's hard to see that because as soon as push comes to shove, we start to rely on something else.

[08:02]

And that is a problem. When push comes to shove, we may say, oh, I rely on, you know, practice and faith, so forth, faith and practice. But when it comes to push to shove, we reach for something else. But if you don't reach for something else, then you find yourself in not knowing. Not knowing is the highest. Because we turn it all over. And then we have this, that's called inner direction. The universe provides inner direction. Because that's what it's always done. You didn't ask to be born. You were born helpless. And then we end. It all ends. So when we have that kind of trust, we have a happy ending.

[09:07]

Hopefully. But we don't know. We don't know. We do not know. Not knowing. So the trust, it's just, people say, what do you have faith in? Just have faith, that's all. It's not in anything. Because... Everything is, so far, you have no control over, you have some kind of control over something, but those are minor controls, major controls we have no control over. Every day you age, you have no control over that. And we march on, march on, march on, and then finally, we don't march anymore. And then, so like, What do you cling to? What do you hold on to? Nothing. It's like breathing. You're breathed.

[10:11]

You do not breathe. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It just happens. Blood flowing through the veins is not your fault. What is your fault is talking too much. No, I really like what you have to say. I love your lectures. Thank you, Sojan Rishi. You're welcome. OK, our next questioner is Rondi. And wait till I unmute you, Rondi, before you start, if I can find you in the list. Here you are. I don't see your pick. Ask to unmute. I don't know why it doesn't let me unmute you. It only says ask to unmute. Oh, there she is. Here I am. Hi, Randy. Hi, Sojin Roshi. Hi, Charlie. Hi, Charlie.

[11:13]

Sorry to be late. Sojin Roshi, my question is a cyclone. Can you hear me, Sojin? Yes. A cyclone floods. locusts, earthquakes, and a pandemic. What is a life? What is a life? What is a life? It's all a life. [...] Right now. There's a big surge in the life of locusts. Not only did they devastate Africa, now they're in India. Big ones. They're more vigorous. You know what? They would rather live than, they would rather be alive than they wish about us. And we would rather be alive than our wish about them.

[12:16]

Who's who? They have the, you know, life just eats itself. This is the thing about it, that we don't like. We like what we eat, but we don't like to be eaten. We like to drink, but we don't like to be drunk. I mean, sometimes. Everything's eating everything else. That's the rule here on Earth. You know, that's life. Life is what we don't like. If you want a definition of life, it's what we don't like. You're welcome. Thank you, Sachin. It's more than that. But, you know, given your question. Pardon me? Given your question. Given my question, that's the answer.

[13:20]

Yes. Thank you, Sojin. Charlie, you're up now. On deck. Excuse me for a moment. EMH iPad, would you mute yourself, or Gary, would you mute? What? Residual sound. Judy's having everybody mute up. Okay, go ahead, Charlie. Okay. Charlie. Thank you, Sajid Roshi. Thank you, Shuso, for doing this. I imagine this is the first in the history of our practice. Yes. Well, it's not exactly a practice period. But I agree with you. Gary was to be the Shuso. for our proposed future practice period, which would be starting.

[14:22]

And I feel very sorry about that. He will not be able to do that. But what's your question? My question, Sojan, is about something you talked about many times that I really do not understand, and that is seeing, the capacity of seeing. Does seeing include the other sense organs, hearing, touch, et cetera, or not? Well, we see with our eyes, we see with our ears, but we call it hearing. And we see with our touch, but we call it touching. And we see with our nose, and we call it smelling, and so forth. How about our small mind?

[15:24]

Do we see with that? Unfortunately, yes. We see with our small mind, which is necessary, in a dualistic way. But our mind is always in a dualistic way. under dualistic control. And it's very hard to see the oneness of duality without discriminating. You see, when we say, I know, that's discrimination. Soon you say, I know, you're including something and excluding something. Open us to seeing. True seeing is no seeing. Of course. Whatever we see is discriminated. That's what discrimination means, is dividing, discriminating.

[16:29]

So we're always discriminating. Our mind does that. As soon as we start thinking, we're discriminating. So that's why it's good to not say anything for a long time, from time to time, not say anything. And from time to time, that's why we said Zazen. So that from time to time, we don't say anything and we don't think anything. And we're just being present with what is. Well, I couldn't agree more with you. I've come to believe that Zazen is sort of a spiritual vacation. Instead of taking a rest, we call it. When I say true seeing is no seeing, it's not I see, it's seeing sees. Thank you so much. You're welcome.

[17:31]

Ben, you're next. I'll unmute you. Okay. So, Jeroshi. I can't hear you, but I can't see you. Just a second. We'll fix that. Sure. There you are. Okay. So, Jeroshi, according to my understanding, our practice is about turning towards our experience and being present in our life. But at times and repeated times in my life, I have moments where I feel quite overwhelmed and as if this human life is pretty difficult to bear. And at these moments, sometimes I find myself wanting to turn away from my experience or hide or even give up.

[18:36]

And at those times, what do I do? Keep going. Just keep going. I remember Kadigiri Roshi used to say, we have to bear the unbearable. This comes from his Japanese experience of the war. You know, the Japanese lost the war, which was the most unbearable thing that they could possibly think of. People would commit suicide, you know, rather than give up. So it's great fortitude. Fortitude is, people say it, sometimes say, oh, you know, Zen is just, how do they say that? You know, you're trying to make life difficult for yourself.

[19:42]

Well, we don't have to try, you know, because life is difficult enough for us. But an endurance contest, that's what it was. Zen is just an endurance contest, as if that's bad. But actually, it's good. Life is an endurance contest. The request of our life is to endure. until we die, right? So it's a kind of contradiction. Life is a kind of contradiction where we strive as hard as it can to live and that, but it's all going towards dying. So yes, it's an endurance contest and you're in the middle of it, you know, and we create our own problems. And then we, have to figure out how how to endure the problems that we create for ourselves um but uh yeah when you don't know what to do just keep going also take a rest sometimes taking a rest you know it's good i remember when i was you know beginning my practice and i had a lot of problems and

[21:12]

you know, problems like all I could do is walk around the block, you know, or just take long walks or something day after day, you know, but there was nothing else I could do. What do you do when there's nothing else you can do? Well, you say, well, I'll cop out, you know, I'll drop out, but you can't do that because our life is about motivation, right? It's about moving. It's moving. and doing. So we set ourselves up to attain something. But in the midst of setting ourselves up to attain something, we create a problem. So we have to deal with that problem. and that's practice enduring even no matter what's going on what i what what i did when that was happening i would sit zazen every day twice a day and that sitting to zazen twice a day is what helped me to endure because i could see that there were two things one was being and the other was doing and it's

[22:42]

enough to just be without worrying about the doing but we're motivated to do so it's good to take that break of just being because that's enough and when we lose our our resolve or our energy or our motivation to practice that just keep moving just yeah That's the time, that's the great test of your practice. What that does is strengthen your practice. Because the truth being that once you start your practice, you can never stop. No matter what you think. If you go away for 20 years, you can't stop. Why? Because it's the truth about your life. Thank you, Sojan. You're welcome.

[23:42]

Okay, Kabir, you're next on deck. Let me unmute you or ask you to unmute yourself. Hi, I'm Sojan. Sorry I'm late. I had a bit of a technical difficulty. Well, first off, I just want to thank you and the community for this great support. One thing that, one of the positive things that came out of this whole shelter in place is I meditate regularly now, especially in the evenings, which has been very, very helpful. What you said a couple weeks ago about how to remember... Kabir, you cut out your voice.

[25:00]

I'm sorry. Oh, can you hear me now? Yeah. Okay. So when you mentioned about discipline, when I asked about... How do we remember our breath in the storm of emotions or anger? You said something about discipline, and that was very helpful. What I've been doing is when I'm not feeling, you know, angry or I'm not in the storm of emotions, I try to recall my breath. or pay attention to it when things are good, when things are calm, when things are okay. And when things get a little shaky, it's a little easier to get into the call or to come back to the breath. I had this interesting dream that night,

[26:10]

uh i was saying i go to refuge to buddha dharma sangha and then also also i heard said i go right fish to my actions and i wanted to know what's your take on that you know going going for refuge to our actions Sojan, you're muted. Hold on a second. Kika, can you unmute Sojan for some reason? How's this? OK. Sorry. I might have done that by mistake. It's like if you offer everything to Buddha, then everything is OK.

[27:11]

But, you know, you said I take refuge in Buddha and so forth. And then you go back to your stuff. Yeah. And so you offer your stuff. How do you take refuge in Buddha is to offer all your stuff to Buddha. Buddha will take care of it. What does that mean that Buddha will take care of it? It means that you're trusting yourself. Actually, Everything is okay. We think it's not okay, but everything is okay. It could be better. Yes, yes. You can make it better. But first of all, you have to be able to say, oh yeah, everything is okay, because here it is, and this is what it is. Then, okay, now what do I do? So you come back to, coming back to Buddha means... To offer it all to Buddha means it's all okay.

[28:17]

All okay. It's all okay. And now what do I do? Instead of it's not okay, what do I do? If it's not okay, you'll never find out what to do. So it's got to be okay. Everything is okay just as it is. Now what do I do? So you're going from pessimism to optimism. You want to stay in the realm of optimism or neutrality. As soon as it's not okay, then you lose your footing. You lose your center. So you just come back to your center all the time. You live in your center. You don't live out there. You live in your center. And then everything you do comes from that place. That's called faith in yourself and in Buddha. So yes, come back to your breathing. Come back to your breath so that you maintain a calm mind.

[29:22]

You can't do anything. If you're in a fight or in a desperate situation, you can't operate from that situation. You can only operate from the situation of calmness. So you come back to your breath and let go of everything. Just like that. That's very good. and take a deep breath from here. Always breathe from here. Make a practice of always breathing. You can't see this, but deep in your gut. That's where your practice comes from. That's where your breath is. That's where you solve all your problems. When I say solve all your problems, it means you know how to take care of them. or you make an effort to take care of them from your center. What about taking refuge to our actions?

[30:30]

Well, yeah, so your actions are all aimed at being Buddha. All of your actions, what would Buddha do? George Bush, you know, what would Jesus do? But that's true. You come back to, I am Buddha, what shall I do now that I'm Buddha? I mean, it sounds a little hokey, but it's true. No, it's perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Linda? Linda's still there? Yeah. Okay? Yes. Hi. Hi. Yeah, you said Zazen is a rest.

[31:41]

You're resting your mind, yes. Yeah. Sounds like such a good idea. Zazen was like that. I've been sitting more regularly now during the period than I was before. It's not restful, though, mostly. And even now, I was coming here to meet you all. but I didn't feel I could find my sincerity or my open heart and I can experience a lot of fluttering and a lot of strange action over here and I don't have maybe this is about as sincere as I can get but it doesn't feel very open-hearted what about that Gee whiz, I never think about those things. Gee whiz.

[32:43]

I never think about those things. I just think, now I'm going to sit the dozen, now I'm going to be with so-and-so, now I'm going to meet the Sangha. I never think about any of those things. Oh. That's because my mind is open and not cluttered with looking for things to hold on to. So, If I say, good evening, Sojin. Yes. That's the sincere. A little flurry heart and a little bit of a chopped up frontal lobe. And I don't really have a good question for you, but it's nice to see you. What you bring forth, though, is a question. What you bring forth is the question of what do I depend on? Where is my bottom line?

[33:46]

That's your question as I see it. So I don't know, you know, if you want to have calmness of mind. Maybe you do. Maybe you don't. I don't know. But I think your mind threatens you threatens you and you're a little bit afraid of it yeah it can be scary that mind yeah it's a bit scary yes so you know i would like to say that we all love you very much and we want to see you happy and not worried about anything at all Is that what I was really asking for again?

[34:47]

I know. You don't think you're asking for that, but you are. Anyway. Got me. Well, that's good. Thank you. You're welcome. Yes. Okay, next is Karen Dakotas. So Jun Roshi, I can't see you yet. but I think you'll come into view soon. Hi, I see you in a little box. He's muted again. Yeah, I don't know what's with this. I seem to be muting my teacher. Sorry, Sojin. Is that okay? Yes, hi. Hi. I don't know why that's happening. It doesn't matter. It's just happening. And we fixed it so far. So far. So far, so good. So far, so good. So, hi. I've just been on Zoom for almost three solid months.

[35:50]

And certain themes have come up about my practice. You know that saying, you know it, because I learned it from you. When you are you, Zen is Zen. Oh, he's frozen for me now. He's completely frozen. Anyway, that phrase, I used to never understand it. Now I sort of understand it, but I haven't realized it. So my question is about being authentic. And I have found through this Zoom experience that I feel very much like... I used to think I was very authentic because I had all these feelings and having feelings made me authentic. But in fact, I feel like I present a lot. I present and I don't know if I'm really being myself.

[36:52]

I don't know if Zen is Zen because I don't know if I am me. So it's like Katagiri's two books, returning to silence and then you have to say something. so i want to learn all right my question is about how to express myself not from presentation but from being real being present but not presenting you know you were you were gone for a while So were you. You were gone for a while. I didn't get all that. I got the last part. Oh, okay. Well, whatever you... Say something. Yeah, that's it. I said it's kind of like between Katagiri's two books, Returning to Silence and You Have to Say Something. Yes. And the part where I have to say something, even in this moment, it's like, am I...

[37:55]

Am I really being me? Is Zen really Zen? Or am I just presenting? And it bothers me. That's the problem. Don't worry about it. Just be you. Honestly. Don't worry about those. I don't worry about those things. I know. I got that when you talked to Linda. I got that you don't worry about it. And I know you don't worry about it. But I still have to bring my questions to you. I know. It's easy for me to say. It's easy for me to say. But I think it's real for you. I think you have a kind of faith that I think these last few months have tested my faith because I've been seeing myself all the time on these Zoom meetings, and it's just sort of closed in on me. So... I can't get some freshness to who I am somehow.

[38:59]

I see. And offer. It's like Linda said. It's like, I don't know that I'm here with a full compassionate heart. Although I feel compassion, I'm not called to action. Does that? Well, I understand what you're saying. Okay. But I have to say it. You look great. You look marvelous, darling. You look marvelous, darling. Honestly. Well, and that's really what I'm going for, right? Yes. And what I thought when I first saw your picture, I saw you on here, boy, she really looks great. You look better and better all the time. You know, I have gotten to, sometimes I'm bowing at the bowing mat, not knowing what to say before giving a lecture. But I don't think about those things. I just think, you know, put something in my mind to say, you know.

[40:01]

And then I just open my mouth whenever it comes out. And it's all there in you. It's all there in you. And you shouldn't worry so much about your delivery or about any of those things. It's there. Don't even think about what you're going to say. And just trust that it will come out of your mouth. Well, yeah, things do come out of my mouth. You always give good talks. I've never heard a talk by you that when you were a shoe, so you get great talk. You know, it's there. If it's not there, it won't come out. If it's there, it won't come out, but you have to trust that it's there. after practicing for 30, 40 years, you know. Yes, thank you. And I think the many things you've said tonight that feel inspiring, the one is about faith, that it's not there's faith in anything, there's just faith.

[41:13]

Right. And I think when I remember that, the question I brought falls away. Yes. because I can't really control how what you're seeing is. Right. Right. But I always have had great grief in you. That's why I ordained you. That's why I transmitted you. For which I'm very grateful. Thank you. I just depend on the practice. What do I depend? I depend on my practice. Yeah. Cricket, you're up. Okay. Hello, Sojan. Hi. Thank you. I don't see you yet. Oh.

[42:14]

I'm down in the bottom corner. Okay. All right. Now I see you. Okay. Could you say something about... how it is to want to practice generosity at a time when it feels like the need is so overwhelming that it's easy to get flooded with all of, you know, sort of all of what we see, all of the requests and so forth. And at the same time, you know, just speaking for myself, you know, that I give and then I also at other times feel a constriction out of insecurity. Like I go back and forth between could I give more, am I giving enough, and then wait, you know, but what if something happens to me and I don't want to be in a position where I need something.

[43:24]

And I think this time of insecure, you know, maybe a heightened awareness, both of privilege, of how much I actually do have relative to, you know, sort of what my circumstances could be, makes me, you know, want to give as much as I can. But then fear comes in. And I'm, you know, and I don't usually... This isn't usually a big problem for me, but during this period of the pandemic, I seem to feel much more overwhelmed by this. Is the fear of being overwhelmed? No, it's more. I think it's the uncertainty and the not knowing, you know. All right, let's say I want to give in these various ways, but what happens if I lose my own ability to take care of myself?

[44:31]

Well, then you have to allow for other people to take care of you, just like you take care of others. It's not just one way. Yeah, I find it really hard. I mean, to me... It's difficult. It's hard. It's hard, yes. But... It's like giving people the opportunity. You think it's, from your point of view, you see it as people making it difficult for people. On the other hand, you're giving them the opportunity to do something which they appreciate. Your friends should appreciate taking care of you. They want to do that. But we feel, well, don't, you know, I can take care of myself. I don't want to impose on you, right? Yeah. It's good to have flexibility is the most important thing in the world. Flexibility, a flexible mind, a flexible body, a flexible attitude is the most important thing, which means that you're a leftist.

[45:38]

No, it means that you're willing to work yourself with what's going on, and instead of having rigid ideas about how it should be, or how you're gonna feel, how other people are gonna feel, forget the future. Just take care of the present. If you have a warm-hearted, generous spirit, that's all you need. And then what comes to you, you can take care of, and what comes to you, you can't take care of. So you take care of what you can't take care of, and take care of yourself. If you don't take care of yourself, you're making it harder for other people. So it's like, you know, it's all interwoven. Our lives is interwoven with our actions and our feelings and our thoughts and everybody who we come in contact with. So how do you move flexibly through all of these, through whatever is going on?

[46:43]

It's easy to be overwhelmed, but one thing about being overwhelmed is that you are free to take care of yourself. You should take care of yourself in the same way you would take care of other people. You should be generous to yourself, and generosity is just generosity, period. So why shouldn't you be generous to yourself? You're missing something otherwise. So taking care of yourself makes it easier for other people because they don't have to take care of you then. Anyway, you have a generous spirit and you want to really help everybody you meet. But there's limitations as to what you can do. But if you have the generous spirit, It's not a matter of deeds, necessarily.

[47:48]

You are just being yourself. You're helping other people because of your generous spirit without doing something special. This is how our practice permeates into the world. I think that, you know, in this pandemic, we are demonstrating how to practice during this time with this thing. That's our practice. How do we take care of ourself? How do we take care of our surroundings? How do we make an example for people how to do that? When they say, you can do that, then they think, well, I can do that too. And you don't have to think about it. Just practicing, knowing how to practice in this situation of confinement is helping people without you even thinking about it to follow your example.

[49:06]

Because the vibes from our being emanate into the world, unknown to us, necessarily. Some of us are aware, and some of us are not. Thank you, Sergeant. Okay, take good care. Our last one, our last questioner is Kika. Thank you. Well, I feel really privileged to be in your presence. And I just want to say that you're so just wonderfully light, just so lighthearted and light in your body. And I mean, your face, you're very Kris Kringle, you know. So I just want to know how do you stay so lighthearted, so wonderfully lighthearted?

[50:10]

Well, That's just my response to the world. It's like, I'm not worried about anything. I'm not worried about myself, particularly. I try to take care of myself, you know. But I just enjoy everything I'm doing. I'm still enjoying it. I remember when I thought about, during my life, how I'm gonna end it. I always thought I'd be lived to be 120. But that probably won't happen. And then I always thought that I would just live my life totally to the end. You know, just not slow down or do some, you know, reminiscing or whatever it is.

[51:11]

Just live it all the way to the end. And so that's always been my attitude. And I don't worry about the past, although I have a lot of remorse about the past in various ways, but I'm happy about it, you know, I'm just a happy person. And I attribute that to something, to, you know, As you get, when you're a baby, you don't know anything, you know, and you can see everything just as it is. And then when you get, as you get older, you need these props and you need to find ways to support yourself and your ideas and your, you know, body and all that. But then as you get a certain age, if you have a good practice, you don't become childlike. you don't become childish, but you become childlike.

[52:14]

So I feel like I'm somehow segueing into my childlikeness, and I'm enjoying it. Yeah, I can see that, yeah. Because at some point in my life, I decided that my life would be based on love rather than anything else. Appreciate that a lot We had we had a little hiccup here with the video and Yeah, you just stayed, you know, I kind of got a little bit of a rise like oh no where we lost them We lost we lost communication and you just stayed right there just the same energy Pulsing and then somebody said what happened and you said what happened? You said it doesn't matter what happens. It's happening

[53:17]

So that answered all my questions That answers all my questions. It doesn't matter what happened. It's just what's happening I've been watching the series Public television seven series seven video of the Roosevelt's and During Franklin's term He always knew that the war was coming, but he had a hard time convincing people in America that the war in Europe was gonna overwhelm everybody. And then when it happened, he was the calmest person in the room. And all through his tenure, he was always the calmest person in the room. How can I remember to love?

[54:24]

How can I remember to love everybody? It's that you don't love everybody, you just embody love. Surgeon, that's the final questioner. If you wanted to say a little closing statement. Well, that was my closing. Okay. Well, do you want to open it to more people or no? Well, you know, it's been almost an hour, right? Yeah. I would say if I do that, it would be two questions. because otherwise it'd get a little out of hand. I think it's good to keep it to our commitment and then think about it and see what turns up for another one.

[55:36]

I would like, maybe we could say, Is there someone else who would like to ask a question? I didn't get that, I'm sorry. We could say, is there someone else who would like to ask, who's burning to ask a question? You. Someone else burning to ask a question? You. Ross Blum has his hand up. Oh yeah, Ross, okay. Okay, let me unmute him. Hi, Sojin, how are you, everybody? My question to you is, what I see on the screen here is a projection, and when I have the good fortune to see you in person is a projection. Is there a difference? No. Everything is a projection. Everything in your mind is a projection, whether it's on the screen or off the screen. Okay. We live in a world of projections. That we do.

[56:40]

Thank you very much. You're welcome.

[56:42]

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