Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, practice period people and the regular members will hopefully be present to test the shuso, the head mount there. And I think the practice period has been pretty successful. And we're coming toward the end of the year.

[01:04]

So it's nice to have a good focus on our practice before the end of the year. And so we can go into the new year with a renewed sense of intention. So after today, there's a space before New Year's in which Christianity dominates the atmosphere. And a lot of people ask me questions about how do we get through these two weeks of Christmas packaged religion and materialism and so forth.

[02:10]

So I always usually try to encourage people to not avoid it or be critical. but to try and see into the heart of Christianity, to really look at that. If you don't want to be fooled by the materialistic side of Dana, or generosity of both material and spiritual sides, about, not in a sectarian way, but in a real way.

[03:14]

And if you go to the heart of it, then you can see how it actually confirms your own Buddhist practice. You can find some confirmation in your own Buddhist practice? What are the really important aspects? And where do you meet that in your own practice? So I think each one of us has to find out, well, what is important or Judaism or even Islam, that is essential.

[04:17]

And if we can concentrate on those points, then we can accept what's really going on. These two weeks are a rather huge, dominating Christian festival. And we can't ignore it. We're right in the middle of it. So, the best way is to be one with it. Just be one with it and make a good effort to find out what it really means. In the Chronicle, there was an article by Don Lattin, who is the religious writer for the Chronicle, and he's written several articles recently, which involves Ensign.

[05:52]

There was also one last Sunday, in the This World section of the Chronicle, in which he compared religion in California. Interesting. Zen Center came off a little better in his opinion. But he hasn't always been sympathetic to Zen Center. In articles before, he was seduced into thinking of Zen Center as a wealthy middle class institution that was dealing in real estate. But I think he's become more sympathetic and understanding of what Zen Center's purpose is.

[07:04]

But this last article where church is warning people about meditation and yoga. And I have a lot of sympathy for what they're saying, actually. I think that I agree with a lot of their attitudes you can see how little by little young people are leaving the church and they're attracted by new age disciplines and church gets defensive natural response and

[08:13]

in their own sincerity, they feel that they understand what they're doing. And to put something new in there like meditation or yoga is kind of an affront. What do we need that for? We have the real thing, we've had the real thing for 2,000 years, almost 2,000 years. What do we need something else for? What's wrong with what we already have? One of the interesting things that, I can't remember this person's name, but he said it's easy for people to do some kind of physical yogic discipline and then feel that that because they feel good, that this is a kind of religious experience.

[09:16]

And I think that he has a lot, there's a lot to say about that. I think that's a lot of truth in that. But I think that they also realize that it's deeper than just some physical, nice physical feeling. and that they also mentioned in the article that one needs some guidance in meditation in order for it to be meaningful and in order for people to find the... go in the right direction to make it meaningful. There are a lot of people that come to meditation for superficial reasons. And most people, I think, don't regard Buddhism or Zen as a religion, but as a kind of physical discipline which makes you feel harmonious, and for some beneficial reason.

[10:33]

And I remember very well when Suzuki Roshi was teaching This was a big issue. Why do you come to Zazen? Why do you do this practice? And he would talk about how most people come to the practice for some kind of benefit. But not so many people could see it as a religious practice. because in the religious practice, according to our way of thinking, you need to have a deity. Religion, you have a deity. And if you don't have a deity, how can you call it religion? And so for people to understand that Zen and Buddhism

[11:39]

body as well as your mind. Body, mind, spirit. A spiritual practice that involves body, mind, without a deity, without a special deity. It really throws people. So you can see how I'm very disturbed by this. It looks like paganism is making inroads into the Church. If I was in that other person's position, I would be very worried. So I'm concerned, actually, about Christianity and Judaism, too.

[12:59]

I think a lot of people, when they come to Zen practice from another tradition, often through the practice they can realize the fundamental qualities of their own religion. and can go back to it with a renewed sense of what it is. We often get off the track. You know, when disciplines come from the East or some other place, usually they come in a reformed way. And what happens to a religion, including Buddhism, it gets so big that it loses its purpose. Mostly, religion becomes materialistic.

[14:07]

It doesn't take very long for a religious practice to become materialistic, overly materialistic, or overly domineering. Domineering or materialistic or dogmatic. And then people begin to lose interest of it. They have a very hard time getting into the reality and then they start to leave. And so someone like Zen comes to America and people are searching around for reality within the religion their own religion which has been cut off. Religions are kind of really sick and needs reform. And so people latch on to the new religion because it comes in a reformed way.

[15:12]

They have all of the qualities that they're looking for in their own religion but they're not there. I myself would much rather have people come and get a taste of that reformation and then help people to reform their own discipline. I think that we're not interested in proselytizing or getting people to leave their religious background and become Buddhists. I think that if we can help people to make that reformation within their own religion, then it's far more helpful. religions find that reformation in truth and honesty and Buddhism disappears.

[16:35]

I think that would be okay. Maybe all religions at some point should disappear. Suzuki Roshi used to say, someday I'll take off my robes. At some point, when there's no more need for Buddha Dharma, I'll take off my robes. And we should hope for that day. So, when someone comes to me from another religion, I feel that they should be very careful

[17:59]

very careful to know why they're doing that, and to look clearly at what their problem is, what kind of problem they're really having with it. So, you feel, you know, this is right now, we're in a climate in California at any rate of bringing religious disciplines together just to dialogue and to see how the kind of tolerance and coexistence is possible and what the different disciplines can learn from each other I think that one can do that easily if you're grounded in your own convictions.

[19:11]

I don't mean dogmatisms, but convictions. You should always be able to have a little doubt. Doubt is a very important part of faith. And doubt is important because it guides trust and forms an anchor, a balance to trust, so that trust is not just blind. If we have more doubt than trust or faith, then we can't move. It gives way to skepticism. But enough doubt. to be able to question everything. So one of the characteristics of Buddhism is that we should always question everything.

[20:17]

Everything is to be questioned. So that when you have your own conviction, it's your own. That's the kind of religion Buddha-Dharma is. You shouldn't just take someone's word for things. So we have the advantage of we can practice and find out for ourselves. Buddha says, follow me and find out for yourself. You want to know? Come on, find out for yourself. Not, you should believe this. You say, this is our belief. You should always find out for yourself. And I think that the same is true for other religions, but most religions have become very dogmatic and say,

[21:34]

wealthy people. But I think that within Christianity, you should be able to find out for yourself. And I think that tradition does exist within Christianity. So this is what I'm thinking about today. And I wonder if you have any questions, anything about it that you'd like to discuss. Bob?

[22:40]

Yeah. It was brought to my attention at work. They were pretty upset. Yeah, I think so.

[23:45]

We don't have a copy of the statement. Be careful. But I just wanted to say, I was thinking about the season. When I was a kid, I was shocked that all of these celebrations were being attended to themselves. And it had to do with the notion of the days getting longer again. Yeah, there are a lot of ways to think about season.

[24:55]

You can think about it seasonally. But it's also spiritual renewal. It's really about spiritual renewal, which includes both body, mind, and spirit. So you can look at the parts, and you can look at the whole. No one? Only the mind. He offered different practices for people according to where they were in their lives.

[25:59]

And he introduced them to Christianity, their sometimes violent experience of things that are not so simple. And people who are looking elsewhere, whether they're I have the same question. Buddhism is a religion. Yoga is often part of another religious system, and maybe it has a way to just kind of grab these things and what they're doing. On the other hand, it speaks to something that people have that's not getting met because of the narrowing of needs. In all these religions, there's a very deep contemplative tradition that people meditate on. There's a few other practices that I think pretty resemble ours.

[27:05]

But for most people, that's not the office. Many people don't even understand that it's available within their religion. And even if it is, it's seen as something way over there. So, this is accessible for them to suggest this problem with what's available. Well, not only is it not offered, it's discouraged. Why? Because, well, there are a lot of reasons why. But, as religion starts out, heavy on the spiritual side. And then it starts to include the materialistic side. And then the weight falls on the materialistic side. And when it falls on the materialistic side, then the spiritual side is discouraged, because if people do that, then what's going to happen to the other side?

[28:17]

The parallel is between peace and war. The country starts out with the greatest ideals of peace. And then we turn into a nation which is dependent on offense industry. We call it defense industry. In order to fool ourselves into believing that we're just protecting ourselves. After a while, you know, why do we need to protect ourselves? this much for. Anything beyond protection becomes offensive in many ways. So it parallels very much the same. If you stop making war and do peace, then what's going to happen to all your money? And if you stop accumulating money and start doing religious practice,

[29:21]

what's going to happen to your security. So, that's okay. The monastic tradition has always been kind of okay in a certain way, but it's not the thing that people do. Some very extreme types do that. So, religion, even though we have the I mean, if you live in a Jewish family, it's all motion. Very little content. So, it's nostalgia. And people pay attention to the holidays, but they're not quite sure why. It's some kind of ancient nostalgia. There's very little content. And this is what people

[30:24]

they can't, it's not there, so they go someplace else. And if you look at the, in the 18th, the 19th century, the Hasidic movement in Europe was an attempt to revitalize Judaism spiritually. And there were these great battles between the establishment and the Hasidim. And then, of course, the Hasidic movement died out. And it pops up again. It's kind of inspiration. And it's always there, but it never gets too far, because it's difficult. So the materialistic side is too heavy. And even when people voted, I heard it, yes, at the right time, but not at the... The thing that has always confused me was that this was going to be Newark.

[32:08]

I felt that it was a statement that might be It was a great emphasis that we did when we were trying to have it in there. It was a great step, step one, step two, step three, step four, step five, step six, step seven, step eight, step nine, step 10, step 11, step 12, step 13, step 14, step 15, step 16, step 17, step 18, step 19, step 20, step 21, step 22, step 23, step 24, step 25, step 26, step 27, step 28, step 29, step 30, step 30, step 31, step 32, step 33, step 34, step 35, step 36, step 37, step 39, step 40, step 40, step 40, step 41, step 41, step 42, step 42, step 43, step 44, step 45, step 46, step 47, step 48, step 49, step 50, [...] step 51, step 51, step 52, step 52, step 53, step 53, step 52, step 53, step 54, step That's why I don't see big reward with no reward. Yeah. I think it's remarkable how many things that I've needed in my life that I didn't know I could get by myself and encouraged by.

[33:17]

It's only a big, deep line. It's not that big. It's good. Yes. Well, I'm going to my father-in-law's for Christmas, who is a scientist, an atheistic scientist, who thinks that religion is the worst thing that ever happened to the world.

[35:23]

And my wife has a brother. My wife married a Zen Buddhist priest and her brother married a Catholic, a zealous Catholic lady. And we're all going, it's not the first time, we're all going to meet for Christmas. My brother-in-law's wife, the Arden Catholic, wants to really celebrate Christmas, and it's going to be very interesting. I had no problem with it myself. I love to celebrate Christmas, but it's hard on the farm. If I look at the heart of these various religions, I'm a little confused about whether our faiths represent simply a capacity to increase our self-awareness.

[36:52]

I think it's relative, but it doesn't mean that we are self-aware. Well, I don't know if the statement said that, but... probably implied that. Buddhism talks about buddhanature. Everything is buddhanature. And in the course of buddhism, buddhist development, the philosophy of the Yogacara philosophy came closest to thinking of buddhanature as being

[38:06]

But Buddhism is very careful not to slip over into doing that. So that most religions, you know, like Judaism is very careful to not name. They have names, but the names are, you know, taboo. You can't speak those names because the names, if you name it, it's no longer it. And Buddhism is very careful, not only to not name it, but to not even think it. And it just leaves the question open. And so we say, not knowing, in fact, is the highest knowledge. that the spiritual and the material are not two different things.

[39:21]

One of the biggest problems that Buddhism has with most religions is that they become dualistic. There's God and there's material and there's spiritual, and everything becomes divided. In Buddhism there isn't that division, so there's nothing outstanding which you call God. There's nothing to point to as something outstanding. that would be a not knowing. Possibly. But not knowing, not in the sense of not, there's a not knowing and there's a no knowing. This is Bodhi Dharma's first case, the first case in the book of Bodhi Dharma.

[40:24]

The emperor asked Bodhidharma, who are you? He said, no dome. He didn't say, I don't know. He said, I don't know. But his don't know is not the same as I don't know. It's more like, there's no way of knowing. And so then the emperor asked, what is the highest meaning of the holy truth? He says, emptiness. No holiness. Which sounds rather subversive, but it has the same meaning. When you try to describe it, we all want to know. we all want a description you know we really want and so in that vacuum we invent things we invent a knowing and we invent something that we can grasp you know on the altar we have Buddha

[41:54]

And we bow to Buddha. People say, well, you bow to idols. You Buddhists are always bowing to idols. But Buddha on the altar is an inspirational figure. It's not a deity. We bow to Buddha as a focus. But we also bow to teacups. We also bow to dogs and cats. And we bow to each other. for the center of the universe is wherever you bow. So, and if you're very, you know, when you say the word God, it really grabs you. Not everybody, doesn't grab everybody, but if You know what that means. So, I don't think that's a bad thing to do.

[43:07]

But, we also have to be able to go beyond that, and not be attached to that term. Or, you know, in Buddhism, we say, going beyond Buddha. Buddha going beyond Buddha. And I think we also have to say God going beyond God. Then we meet in the same place. That's why meditation is so universal. Because when you're sitting Zazen, there's no God, no Buddha. no idea about anything. Just this is it. But not everybody can do that. And I understand why. I think it's, yeah, I agree with you, myself.

[44:35]

But one of the problems is that it tends to overshadow the other side. Yeah. All right. Yeah. The article that I saw... Yeah, there were two articles. One was an example of this. Well, I felt the same way, because I think Don Lattin made the point of not pointing out, whereas I think the examiner, you know, the guy didn't have as much experience, so he just said, oh, Zen meditation, you know. They don't write the headlines. They don't write the headlines. That's right. It's a very interesting process. The writer will write the article and then someone else puts in the headlines.

[45:39]

A sensationalist puts in the headlines. It's kind of like the National Enquirer stuff, you know, from the headlines. The article itself, I don't know what was in it, but... Not so good. Yes, I agree with you. It would be interesting. I saw a little of it. It would be great if I could pick it out. It's a pretty good one. But I think it would be interesting that this would seem so difficult and important to this book of law that is this agency that the university is trying to create. I don't know what's going on. Beyond.

[46:59]

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