Ordinary Mind, Buddha Mind

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BZ-00174A
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From "Not Always So", Rohatsu Day 3

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I vow to taste the truth in the dark of today's world. Good morning. You know, Suzuki Roshi talked about enlightenment a lot, but he never talked about it as an experience, as a special experience. He always talked about it as a way of life, or as enlightened activity, not as some prize or some special event, but, you know, not such a big deal.

[01:28]

In Zen literature or Buddhist literature, enlightenment is always often, mostly presented as a big deal. And if you read Buddhist literature, the Mahayana literature especially, everything is kind of blown out of proportion. If you read the 10 Bhumis of the Bodhisattva, the 10 steps of the Bodhisattva, or the 52 stages, you know, it's like kind of superhuman. Is that a mortal thing? I mean, mortals can do this? And so enlightenment is kind of presented in the same way, often, as some monstrous experience where thunder and lightning, the sky falls down, the earth falls away, and your head is ringing for two weeks and all this.

[02:46]

Those experiences do happen. Books are like illustrations, you know? They present something in a dramatic way that makes a point. But in real life, Every experience of enlightenment is peculiar to the person who has that experience and is different for everyone. And your enlightenment experience may not be dramatic at all. You may not even recognize your enlightenment experience. Or you may, in retrospect, realize something that happened a long time ago that you didn't understand at all.

[03:56]

Or you may just wake up in some way and realize how stupid you are. which is a wonderful enlightenment experience. Enlightenment is the realization of how small you are, and how ignorant you are, and how wonderful you are. and how you are. As a matter of fact, it's just an experience of just what you are, really. What you really are, who you really are, without any illusions.

[05:03]

So, you know, it's possible that you may not feel good about it. That's Suzuki Roshi's classic statement, you know, when you get enlightened you better be careful about what you want because if you get enlightened you may not like it, which could be true, but you have to accept it. So, you know, enlightenment is to be aware of what is delusion. The enlightened mind is the mind that is aware of what is delusion. And the unenlightened mind is the mind that is not aware of what is delusion. The enlightened mind

[06:15]

will accept everything as it is. because it's always completely open. And we'll deal with whatever appears without hesitation. In this talk, Suzuki Hiroshi talks about ordinary mind and Buddha mind.

[07:22]

And he says, the point of my talk is to give you some support for your practice. There is no need for you to remember what I say. If you stick to it, you stick to the support, not to the tree itself. A tree, when it is strong, may still want some support, but the most important thing is the tree itself, not the support. So he's talking about the teacher and the student. The teacher is a tree and the student is a tree. the tree, the student, or the teacher, is a kind of support for the student. But the purpose of the teacher is to help the tree to stand up by itself without any support. Sometimes, one time Suzuki Roshi said that when a student arrives,

[08:33]

the teacher acknowledges the student and then sends the student away. Get out of here. That's a kind of, not literally so, but the meaning is when you come here, you have to stand up by yourself. I will help you as much as I can, but you have to depend on yourself and lean on yourself. And if whatever help you need, you know, we give you and guide you. But unless you make your own effort to stand up by yourself and find your own way, a teacher can't really help. So, He says, you know, the purpose of my talk is just to give you some support, but don't stick to what I say.

[09:43]

Don't lean on what I say as some truth that you can hang on to. You don't have to remember what I say. It's just to give you some support. Often the talk, you know, In Japan, they tell people how to listen to a talk. And the way to listen to the talk is to just be open. Just sit still, open your mind, and don't think. And just let the talk come in. And don't think about it. And then just go away. I mean, that's, you know, of course people ask questions and so forth, but to not discuss it while it's going on, to just take it in.

[10:51]

And then the talk will, you eat the talk, and then you let it settle in your stomach and if it doesn't taste so good, you know, get sick or throw up or take a poop or whatever, but you let it work and digest in your stomach and then whatever nutrients come out of that will, you know, create some support or sustenance And if you don't like what the teacher says, you go someplace else. It's okay. A good teacher never tries to keep anybody around. If somebody feels that there's something, some sustenance, they'll stay. If they don't, they'll leave. And it's as it should be. Not every student can connect with every teacher or any teacher.

[11:54]

Some people have an affinity for one teacher or several teachers. Some people are always looking for the right teacher and can never find the right teacher. If you can never find the right teacher, there's something, maybe something wrong, maybe some arrogance or something. So when you find the right teacher, You just open up your mind and let something come in. And if it doesn't taste good, maybe it's not the right teacher. Or, if it doesn't taste good, maybe it's bitter. But bitter medicine, you know, is good for you. So sometimes we get the bitter medicine and we stick around. That's a good student who can take the bitter medicine and still stick around. Then that medicine starts working.

[12:58]

So that's a kind of support. But still, he says, the point of my talk is to give you some support for your practice. There's no need to remember what I say. If you stick to it, you stick to the support and not to the tree itself. A tree, when it is strong, may still want some support, but the most important thing is the tree itself, not the support. I am one tree, and each of you is a tree. You should stand up by yourself. When a tree stands up by itself, we call that tree a Buddha. In other words, when you practice Zazen, in its true sense, you are really Buddha. Sometimes we call it a tree, and sometimes we call it a Buddha. Buddha, tree, or you are all many names of one Buddha. I remember Suzuki Roshi talking about when he went back to Eheji, after being gone for a long time, and he saw these wonderful cryptomeria trees,

[14:05]

that he had remembered that were there when he was practicing and had been there for hundreds of years. And he called them the old monks, the old Buddhas. He says, when you sit, you are independent from various beings, and you are related to various beings. And when you have perfect composure in your practice, you include everything. You are not just you. You are the whole world, or the whole cosmos, and you are Buddha. So when you sit, you are an ordinary human, and you are also Buddha. Before you sit, you may stick to the idea that you are ordinary, So when you sit, you are not the same being as you are before you sit.

[15:07]

Do you understand? Before you sit, we have this idea. We have this idea of ourself. I am so and so, with such and such a name, who does this kind of work, and has these ideas and feelings, and you have an identity. as a person. But when you sit on the cushion, you let go of that identity as a person. Sometimes it's very hard for people when they're older to sit Zazen or to practice, especially in the monastic practice, because they have to give up their identity. You spend all these years creating an And then when you sit on the cushion, you let go of that identity. So all these years of creating an identity are for naught.

[16:08]

It's not true, completely. When you give up your identity, then you get it back. But before you get it back, you have to let go of it. So when we sit, we become Buddha. This zazen is Buddha's practice. It's not my practice. There's no me, mine, or I. Simply Buddha's practice. That's why, you know, sometimes we say it's not karmic activity. Karma is volitional activity. It's my activity. Karma arises when self arises.

[17:15]

When we sit Zazen, we let go of self or the arising of self, even though self arises during Zazen. It does arise during Zazen, but the point of Zazen is to let go of self. But there's always this, you know, coming and going during Zazen. Sometimes self arises, then sometimes it secedes. And it arises and we let go, and it arises and we let go. So it's a kind of arising of self and then letting go of self and coming back to Buddha. Or to posture and breathing. Or not being bothered by thinking. Thinking continuously comes up, but we're not bothered by it. When you're bothered by it, that's self. When there's no self, even though there's thinking, it doesn't matter.

[18:20]

You're not bothered by it. There's no one to be bothered by it. So, karma is always being created. but the effect of karma is very weak, either weak or non-existent. So there's a kind of range from karma to weak to non-existent. There are moments when there's no karma being created, when there's no grasping, no thinking, Or if there is thinking or feeling or emotion, there's no one who's being bothered by it. When one is being bothered by it, then karma is being created.

[19:23]

So, He says, while you sit, when you sit you are independent from various beings and you are related to various beings. Independent of various beings means a blank screen. Related to various beings means being part of the movie, part of the drama, being related to phenomena on this side, being Buddha is being on the other shore, and being related to things is on this shore of the phenomenal world. So you're in the phenomenal world and at the same time independent from the phenomenal world. That's Buddha. But Buddha is both. And when you have perfect composure in your practice, you include everything.

[20:35]

So perfect composure means both Buddha and sentient being, and not being worried about whether you're a Buddha or a sentient being, because you accept both equally. And composure means that you settle on sentient being as Buddha, and Buddha as sentient being. You are not, and when you have perfect composure in your practice, you include everything. You are not just you. You are the whole world, or the whole cosmos, and you are a Buddha. So when you sit, you are an ordinary human, and you are Buddha. Before you sit, you may stick to the idea that you are ordinary. When you sit, you are not the same being as you are before you sit. So you may say that it is not possible to be ordinary and holy.

[21:40]

When you think this way, your understanding is one-sided. In Japanese, we call someone who understands things from just one side a tambang-kan, someone who carries a board on his shoulder, or a board-carrying person. Because you carry a big board on your shoulder, you cannot see the other side. You can only see that way. You think you are just an ordinary human, but if you take the board off, you will understand, oh, I'm Buddha too. How can I be both Buddha and an ordinary being, an ordinary human? So that is enlightenment, when you see that you are both Buddha and human, when you realize you're both Buddha and human. But we may be acting in this way without realizing it. So there are two things. There's enlightenment and then there's realization. When we sit zazen, we're sitting in the midst of enlightenment, but we don't realize it.

[22:47]

We may think, oh yeah, but where's this realization? Because we want something else. As long as you have an idea, You're not sitting in enlightenment. You think it's something else. When you experience enlightenment, you will understand things more freely. You won't mind whatever people call you. Ordinary mind? Okay, I'm ordinary mind. Buddha? Yeah, I'm Buddha. How do I come to be both Buddha and ordinary mind? I don't know, but actually I am Buddha and ordinary mind. Buddha, in its true sense, is not different from ordinary mind. An ordinary mind is not something apart from what is holy. This is complete understanding of ourself.

[23:52]

Complete means not just from one side. When we practice Zazen with this understanding, that is true Zazen. You will not be bothered by anything. Whatever you hear, whatever you see, that will be okay. To have this feeling, it is necessary to become accustomed to our practice. If you keep practicing, you will naturally have this understanding and this feeling. It will not be just intellectual. You will have the actual feeling. You know, he says, I don't know actually, how do I come to be Buddha, an ordinary being? I don't know actually. Not knowing is a very important aspect of knowing. Not knowing is how you know.

[24:57]

That's a big koan. Even though someone can explain what Buddhism is, if that person does not have the actual feeling, we cannot call her a real Buddhist. Only when your personality is characterized by this kind of feeling can we call you a Buddhist. The way to become characterized by this kind of understanding is to always concentrate on this point. Many koans and sayings bring out this point. For instance, the koan, Joshu and Nansen. Joshu asks Nansen, what is the way? And Nansen says, ordinary mind is the way. And Joshu says, well, how can I attain it?

[26:02]

And nonsense says, well, if you try to attain it, it becomes elusive. And if you don't try to attain it, you stumble past. What will you do? So ordinary mind understands things dualistically But even though we are doing what we usually do, that is actually Buddha's activity. Buddha's mind, Buddha's activity, and our activity are not different. So in other words, we don't try to eliminate our dualistic thinking. Dualistic thinking is very important. If you don't think dualistically, you can't operate in the world very well. There's right and wrong, good and bad.

[27:07]

At the same time, there's no right and wrong, and no good and bad. So to understand dualistically is to understand the difference between right and wrong, and good and bad. And to understand non-dualistically is to realize there is no difference. There is no good or bad, or right or wrong. And both is true. But we usually take one side. Someone may say that such and such is Buddha's mind, and thus and so is ordinary mind. But there's no need to explain it that way. When we do something, we cannot say, I am doing something, because there is no one who is independent from others.

[28:09]

When I say something, you will hear it. I cannot do anything by myself, just for myself. If someone does something, everyone will be doing something. Moment after moment, we continue our activity, which is Buddha's activity. but you cannot say that this is just Buddha's activity because you are actually doing something too. Then you may say, I, but we don't know what I that is. You may say who is doing what because you want to intellectualize your activity, but before you say anything, the actual activity is present. Who you are is right there. So, you know, Who's doing this, me or Buddha? Someone may say that such and such is Buddha's mind.

[29:12]

Buddha's mind is like this, non-dualistic. An ordinary mind is dualistic. But there's no need to explain it that way. When you do something, we cannot say, I am doing something, because there is no one who is independent from others. If you say, I am doing something, that makes you independent. But we're not really independent. You can't say exactly, even though we do say that, I am doing something, that's almost right. That's a tendency toward being right, but it's not exactly right because there is no independent I, actually, even though there is an independent quality. Because whatever we do is done together with everything else, even though it looks like we're doing something all by ourself. We're not doing something all by ourselves.

[30:24]

Whatever we do is connected to what others are doing and to the things around me, my environment. Whatever I do affects the things around me. Sometimes people feel that they can do something without affecting the things around them, but it's not true. So we have to be very careful. aware of what we do, because it affects everything. So when we do something, we cannot say, I am doing something, because there's no one who is independent from others. When I say something, you will hear it. In other words, I wouldn't say something if I didn't expect you to hear it, if you weren't there. So I cannot do anything by myself just for myself. If someone does something, everyone will be doing something. Moment after moment, we continue our activity, which is Buddha's activity.

[31:27]

So it's also Buddha's activity, which means the whole universe is involved. But you cannot say that this is just Buddha's activity because you are actually doing something too. as an independent person, as a seemingly independent person. Then you may say, I, but we don't know what I that is. Is it Buddha's I or my I? You try hard to say who is doing what because you want to intellectualize your activity. But before you say anything, the actual activity is present. Who you are is there. In other words, before you intellectualize it, just doing the activity, you are there without thinking, is this me or is this Buddha? Our activity is both cosmic and personal, so there's no need to explain what we're doing.

[32:31]

You know the story of Gensha. Gensha always used to say, the whole universe is one bright pearl. Dogen wrote a commentary on that. And one day a monk came and said, Gensha, you keep saying the whole universe is one bright pearl. How do you understand that? Gensha says, the whole universe is one bright pearl. There's no need to understand it. So this is like how to just do. When we just do, this understanding is there, but when we think about it, we become removed from just doing. Shikantaza is just doing. That's why zazen is called shikantaza.

[33:34]

It's just doing, without reflecting, without thinking about anything. Simply letting this moment be total, total activity. And then understanding is there, but when you try to understand it, you lose it. When you do zazen as shikantaze, you really understand it, even though you don't understand it. But we want to understand it with our intellect. But you understand it with your whole being. But we don't necessarily realize that. So when we do Zazen with our whole being, without reflecting on it, that's enlightenment. That's enlightened activity. You have enlightenment experiences all the time.

[34:35]

But our idea is about something else. So, you know, we always say the hardest thing to see is what's right in front of us. So our activity is both cosmic and personal, so there's no need to explain what we're doing. We may want to explain it, but we should not feel uneasy if we can't, because it's impossible to understand. Actually, you are here, right here. So before you understand yourself, you are you. After you explain, you are not really you anymore. You just have an image. But usually you will stick to the image, which is not you, and you will ignore the reality. So what we really want is the image.

[35:41]

We don't, you know, and we just ignore the reality because we want something in our head. As Doug Nzenji said, we human beings attach to something that is not real and forget all about what is real. That is actually what we do. If you realize this point, you will have perfect composure and you can trust yourself. Someone asked me about trust. How did you find out that you could trust your practice, or trust yourself? And that's the answer. Whatever happens to you, it doesn't matter. You trust yourself, and this is not the usual trust or belief in what is not real. When you are able to sit without any image or any sound, with an open mind, that is true practice.

[36:49]

I think what he means is, when you are able to sit without being attached to any image or any sound, with an open mind, that is true practice. Because it's not, if you say, to be able to sit without any image or any sound, how can you sit without a sound? You're not making sounds. your ears are hearing sounds. So you can't sit without a sound. But you can sit without being attached to any sound that you hear. I think that's left... You know, when Suzuki Roshi talks, and then you edit, and then, you know, you kind of have to know what his meaning is when you edit. This got, I think, a little skipped over. You have to kind of add that. When you're able to sit without being attached to any image or any sound, because images and sounds, images will come up and sounds will come in. But without being caught by them is the key.

[37:55]

Without being disturbed by anything that comes in or anything that comes up. You know, composure, is not eliminating any problems. Composure means to have calmness of mind in the midst of big problems. The bigger your problem, the bigger your composure. That's enlightened practice. This is what I learned from my teacher. If nothing else, the bigger the problem, the more composure you have to encompass the problem.

[39:00]

So the problem doesn't turn you over. She says, the purpose of Sashin is to develop stability. So, composure, stability, calmness of mind, these are the refrain over and over and over again. That's all he's ever talking about. He doesn't talk about intellectual ideas or Buddhism or anything. Composure, stability, big mind, calmness of mind, non-duality, duality, When you're able to sit without being attacked or being overturned or being victimized or disturbed by any sound or image with an open mind, that is true practice.

[40:13]

When you can do that, you are free from everything. I remember Bishop Sumi, he was the bishop at Senshu-ji in Los Angeles when Suzuki Roshi was at Soko-ji. And Suzuki Roshi used to invite him up to our sashins. And he had a little stick he'd go around and hit people with. And he had these characters on the stick. And I asked him, what do the characters on your stick mean? He said, free from everything. So free from everything means free from karma. Suzuki Roshi, when he was talking about the six powers of the arhats, the supernatural powers of the arhats, you know, the ability to see through, to read people's minds and see through walls and fly through the air and all this, you know. He said, those, you know, they may have those powers, but the unique power of Buddhism is to be free from karma.

[41:28]

That's kind of what Buddhism is about, is to be free from karma. Not that we don't create karma, but to find freedom within our karma and to understand how karma is created so that we can avoid creating that which captivates us. Buddhism is about how to be free. Still, it is all right for you to enjoy your life moment after moment, because you are not enjoying your life as something concrete and eternal. In other words, you're just enjoying this moment. You're enjoying your life not because you're going to be on this earth forever, or because there's some security, or because it's eternal, or anything.

[42:42]

Just because you're able to stand up in this moment without knowing anything. Our life is momentary, and at the same time, each moment includes its own past and future. in this way our momentary and eternal life will continue." So in the one sentence he denies the eternal life and in the next sentence he confirms it. That's very interesting. He says, because you were not enjoying your life as something concrete and eternal. And then he says, in this way our momentary and eternal life will continue. This is how we actually lead our everyday life, how we enjoy our everyday life, and how we have freedom from various difficulties.

[43:44]

Eternal life is Buddha. Temporal life is human being. So we're both both Buddha and temporal. Eternal is not exactly, but endlessly dimensioned, just endless dimensions of our life, which is boundless. So I would say maybe boundless life rather than eternal. our moment, our life is momentary and at the same time each moment includes its own past and future. So this moment is the culmination of our past. This moment contains all of our past actions as the result of everything that we've ever done.

[44:51]

Not only that, but also whatever past influences beyond this particular lifespan are included in our past. I don't know what those are. You could call those past lives, but if you think about it, all of the ancestors of the past are present in this moment of your life and have created what you are up to the point where you have volition. And then the future is also contained, even though there's no such thing as the future. The seeds of the future are planted in in this moment. And the causes and the conditions will create what we call a future, which is the replacement of another event on this moment.

[46:04]

This moment is as a endless moment is the activities of this moment are constantly being replaced by other activities. And we call that movement in time. But time isn't necessarily moving. From the point of view of movement in time, we can say time moves. And from the point of view of continuous time, There are no demarcations. There's only the endless dimension of this moment called now, which will always be now. At any moment, we just say now. And it's a different now, and it's also the same now. Because now, just now, every time we say now, it's now.

[47:11]

What happened to it? It didn't go anywhere, it didn't come from someplace, but yet there's a coming and going. That's worldly life. Buddha life is just the endless dimensions of this moment, which is just eternal or now. So both is happening at the same time. Things are moving at the same time. At the center of this movement is total stillness. So to settle on this stillness within our movement and to settle on our movement within this stillness is enlightened practice. So he says, I was sick in bed for a long time.

[48:33]

This is when he was sick. He had a gallbladder operation. And so after he came back from his gallbladder operation, he gave this talk. He said, I was sick in bed for a long time, and I was thinking about these things. I was just practicing zazen in bed. I should enjoy being in bed," and he laughs. Sometimes it was difficult, but when I laughed at myself, why is it so difficult? Why don't you enjoy your difficulties? I think this is our practice.

[49:05]

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