Good morning. It's very nice to come back and sit sasheen with all of you. And we have a lot of guests sitting sasheen. Betty Boyd from Canada, and people from Tassajara. Nancy Schrader, who is the Tenzo at Tassajara currently, and Juan Aldai, who was at the retreat at the practice period, and Robert Thomas, here in this practice period, and Albert from Palo Alto, and Anne from Arizona.

[01:21]

I think that We haven't spoken to each other since I've been back. And I think you'd probably be interested to know how the practice period at Tassajara went. Well, it went pretty well. I didn't know how it would go when I went down there. It was somewhat hastily put together. And since we'd never done anything like that before, there were a lot of loose ends and rough edges. But everything worked out very well. People compensated for any problems that we had and adjusted very easily. to the situation.

[02:28]

And it was quite a diverse group of people. There were a group of older men, around 45 to 50, and a group of young juvenile delinquents, who've been difficult to take care of, for years in Zen Center, and people from all over, some with experience and some with very little experience. But everybody seemed to find their place very well. We had rain, cold weather, went down to about 25. And when you're living in Tassajara, the practice period, you really are conscious of the weather every hour, moment by moment.

[03:43]

The weather plays a big part in your life. There's no heat except for the community room, and in the Abbott's cabin. So people are rather cold all the time, but moving, always moving, so that you don't bog down with it. Our zendo is quite warm. You can really see the difference when we come into our zendo in the morning. The walls are insulated and you can close the windows. Tassahara, the zendo, the windows are made out of paper and there's no insulation.

[04:47]

And it's very cold. Here it's rather small bodies heat the place up. One thing that I wanted to do when I went to Tassajara, because it was a group of people who didn't know each other so well, I wanted to do something in order for people to know each other well. Because it's very easy if you go to Tassajara to be rather somewhat isolated and easy to get out of communication and easy to not be known or know people so well, except through your activity.

[05:53]

So I was rather encouraged by our Monday morning talks that we've been having here when we talk about our life, what our life's about. And I wanted to do that at Tassajara this time. And I didn't know how I was going to get it into the schedule. The schedule is so relentless. The schedule is your life in Tassajara, one activity after another. I couldn't see where to fit it in, but we managed to do it. And, well, in the morning, after breakfast break, we have either a lecture or Choson. And Choson is a little bit like lecture, except that it's informal. Everybody has tea. Choson is morning tea.

[06:56]

Everyone has tea together in the zendo. And there's a question and answer period. So usually a lecture alternates with choson. And so I decided that we'd have lecture choson and tatakis. What we came to know as tatakis, where people would talk about themselves. And it became very interesting, people talking about themselves. But in that situation, Tathagatagarbha is a very focused place. And with that kind of focus you get that people's revealing of their lives and their feelings. what seemed significant to them in their lives became very powerful.

[08:04]

Someone, one person said, you know, when I go someplace, usually people say, where did you come from? And she said, but here at Tassajara, someone asked me, how did you get here? She said, it's like the end of the road. It feels like the end of the road. And that's very true. It's like, you know, you go 14 miles into the forest, into the mountains, and it's the end of the road. And it's like, how did you get here, finally? There's no place else to go. So it has that feeling. You can't go anywhere else. When you reveal something, it's right there. And that really brought people together. The talkies really brought people together.

[09:10]

And the feeling that everyone really knew each other. And people could talk about themselves without any... in a way where there was no judgment. They could say anything they wanted. And there was no judging. Mostly, everyone was very sympathetic to everyone's story and could identify, easy to identify with everyone's story. And then you begin to see how people are the way they are. And you get a kind of picture of why people are doing what they're doing and what brings them to Zen Center. And in a way it was like shedding, coming out of your skin. The people were really straightforward.

[10:12]

It was like shedding their old life and just being a new person right there in that space. And everyone could share their lives with each other in that way. It was quite wonderful. The biggest complaint was that it didn't last long enough. It ended too soon. Practice period is usually 90 days. And the first month is like one third of that time. So you get over a big hump for the first month and then you begin to settle into practice period. And every moment was just in that space where they were really beginning to move well together. And then it was over. So that's a little too bad. I don't know if we'll do it again in the future.

[11:20]

But I think there's certainly some... This practice period sets a good precedent for doing it sometime. again. One of the things that was mentioned was that people didn't really want to... I mean, it's good to have two long practice periods at Tassajara. It's very valuable. And so, because Tassajara is also a continuous practice, it's hard to know where to put something. The reason why we were able to do this was because there was no practice period this fall because of the work on the baths. So that's why I suggested doing this. The schedule was not so different from regular practice period, a little lighter.

[12:23]

We got to the Zendo at 4.30 in the morning. instead of four, and went to bed at around nine, and got up a little bit later on our day off, four or nine days. But for me, it was like coming out of the bramble and skating on ice. The contrast. For me, it was like so smooth. I realized when practicing in the city, it's very bumpy and rocky and full of frustration. But Tassajara, for me, everything was just so easy and wonderful. And I felt so grounded, probably because of my practice here.

[13:27]

I felt very grounded. And it was like one thing fell into place after another. You know that feeling where you do, where your actions just follow one after the other so easily. And of course I had a very nice jisha, a nice anca. Jisha is Robert Lytle, who had been Jisha for Katagiri Roshi and been at Tassajara for quite a number of years, and is very comfortable relating to him. For me, very wonderful. We got along really well. And Anja was Barbara Isaacson, and Anja is kind of like my attendant who takes care of me, makes my bed and puts it away and brings me something to drink and washes the laundry.

[14:45]

Those are two very interesting relationships. I'm not used to having an Anja. I'm not used to having somebody take care of me. So my tendency is to say, no, no, I'll do that myself. No, please don't do that. Go away. But if I do that, then I'm not really letting that person serve their function. So I had to learn how to practice with letting someone serve their function by taking care of me, tending to me. So that was very interesting, working out that relationship. Because a relationship gets very close. And I remember when I was working with Suzuki Roshi as his jisha.

[15:55]

And he would say to me, no, that's OK, I can do this myself. But I want to do it. He liked to take care of himself, too. And he said, well, you know, I don't need somebody to take care of me. This is not for me, it's for you. And that's the way I felt, too, with my Anja. This is not for me, it's really for you. It's for both of us, actually. some kind of training. And it worked very well. We've got to create the relationship that worked very well. But, you know, a lot of that relationship is very intuitive. You have to create an intuitive, very fine intuitive understanding. And I was reminded of the term sandava, saindava.

[17:07]

I think I talked about that here before. From the Parinirvana Sutra, there's a story about a king who had an attendant. And there were four things that the attendant, that the king usually wanted. One was salt, and a bowl, and water, and a horse. And whenever he wanted one of these, he would say, Sandaba. And the attendant would know exactly which one he wanted. That's a kind of example of intuition, or close relationship. So I felt that I was creating close relationship with a lot of people at Tassajara.

[18:15]

And mostly I was concerned with the people. And having a good relationship with everybody. And it's hard for one person to do, to have a close relationship with each person. But that's what was my main purpose, I think. So if it had gone on a little longer, it would have been nicer, better. And I felt that in the end, just about everybody felt good about what we were doing and could relate to each other pretty well. Do you have any, maybe you have some questions about, that might help you to talk about it.

[19:24]

This technical thing, I understand what a kanji is, but what is a jisha? Jishya takes you to Zazen, carries the incense. Helps you with the more visible side. And is a kind of go-between. Arranges Doksan. And when people want to see me, so they talk to the Jishya. So the jinshi is kind of a front person. And also, like the eyes and ears. My eyes and ears, so that they let me know what's going on around town.

[20:30]

Not an informer, but... Someone to discuss things with. It just so happened that he was also the director. So, jīṣa is usually someone who is very close and advanced person. Someone that Abbot can relate to in an intimate level as far as the dharma goes, as far as people go. Could you say a little bit more about how the talk period went? I mean, did you, how was it, how was it that you would talk? Was there a lot of discussion? Did people talk more than once? Well, we tried to get four, three or four people to talk in one session so that they would only talk for about 15 minutes.

[21:38]

But some of them were very short. so it wasn't very long. You can't, it's hard to limit, you know, when you say, 15 minutes, 20 minutes, and then, sometimes they were a little too long, but even though they were too long, they were still okay, you know, there's nothing you can say, because some people just needed a lot of time, a lot of space. And, so it varied quite a bit. And it was in the dining room, informally. And some people didn't want to reveal themselves. They gave little lectures instead. But other people really, some things really had everybody in tears. So it varied quite a bit.

[22:41]

And we tried to get, just do it at random, not to have special, you know, people. Talk about just everybody horizontal, feeling. And so this was, like, how many times a week? Well, it was almost every day, except for, you know, days off and other rocky days. As much as possible, we tried to do it, to get everybody to do it. That's quite a bit. Would you talk a little bit about the value and the willingness and that kind of intense practice, and then having to come back to a busy, ordinary life? I guess I'm especially asking because where I come from, we're so totally on our own, and trying to figure things out. And people have an attitude that, well, the very precise kind of carry taking things or doing things on a schedule that maybe doesn't apply to us.

[23:47]

You know, we all do things our own way. In a way that's true because that's the way we live. But then what is the relevance of going off into the forest like that? Well, I can only say, talk about it, best way to find out is to go off into the forest. But, it gives you an opportunity to let go of all of the distractions of your life and practice in a way with people that's just focused on mindfulness. When I say mindfulness, what I mean is my definition of mindfulness is always being mindful that you're practicing. Always being aware that this is practice.

[24:48]

This is Buddha's activity. So it's very hard to keep reminding yourself of that in your ordinary life. But when you go to a practice period, that's all there is. So you're constantly reminded. constantly on the spot. And that's very valuable. When you know how to do that, then when you come back to city life, hopefully you can apply it. Not everybody can apply it, I didn't know what it really takes to be able to apply it. I've always been able to apply it, because I lived so long before I started practicing. And... It's interesting, you know, my person who was doing the town trip, my ancha actually, went out on a town trip,

[26:07]

And when you go to the town trip, you drive the truck over the hill into the town, into Monterey. And there you are in the middle of a busy city. It's a very big contrast, really a big contrast. And she just got all shook up. I don't want to do that anymore. But actually, you should be able to do that. You should be able to go out. Do all that stuff, get in the midst of the traffic, go to all the stores where all the candy bars are. Unless you experience that, you don't know what I mean, maybe. But it's like coming from Mars down to Monterey. And cars are going by pretty fast. You see everything. in a very fresh way. And it's easy to get thrown off, unless you have some good stability.

[27:13]

So, you should be able to go back and forth. Ideal practice is to be able to go into Tassajara for three months, come back out, and just resume your normal city life, if you know what you're doing. And that should be the goal. To give you some real sense of real stability and be able to live an enlightened life in the city with all the distractions. I realized, you know, when I came back, I can do it pretty easily. zip into San Francisco, you know, and zip around, just as if nothing happened. But there are subtle pulls that I feel after I'm back for a few days. I can feel these subtle pulls which I didn't feel when I was at Paso Haro.

[28:19]

And I know what to watch for and what to be careful of. But I'm pretty good. I feel pretty good. that I can practice either place. And when I say that I go to Tassajara and it's like skating on ice because for me it's so carefree. I have a lot of cares at Tassajara but it's carefree. It's like I know just what to do. But I don't mind coming back to the city at all. I don't mind coming back to all the problems here at all. Either place is fine. This morning you changed breakfast. Both of you were doing the tasahara. Were there any other changes? Not that I can think of.

[29:23]

There, you know, one of the funny things at Tassajara is that in the past few years, different teachers have been down there and changed the style. So when I went down there, the style was very different from when I was there before. The way you do service and various things. And it's very confusing. But people were a little bit confused because there were so many different ways that had been done and no standardization. But I think that we're going to work on some standardization for all of Zen Center and Berkeley, maybe Minneapolis, all of our kind of Soto styles, so that we can go from one place to another and it'll all be the same. I don't know if that's good or bad, but But we don't have to accept everything we don't want to.

[30:45]

We just accept what we like. If we like doing things, the same. But I think it's worth going over and finding out some way to do things. It's not a big deal, service and eating. It's not so big. It doesn't matter so much. Just decide something. No. I'm sorry. Could you maybe make some comments of tying this into the seven days we have ahead of us here and kind of our, I mean, practice period, but it's a significant stretch of time for most of us. Right. Yeah. Talk about our fishing. Well, what I was thinking about when we were doing Kinyin was it always brings me back to when Dogen came back from China.

[31:47]

He said, I don't have anything. They didn't bring back anything with me. He did bring some stuff back with him, but he said, I didn't bring back anything with me. The only thing I know from my trip is that My nose is vertical and my eyes are horizontal. And that's really it. Everything comes out of that place where the vertical and the horizontal meet. And when we sit here for seven days, Everything comes out at that place where the vertical and the horizontal meet. It's all there is to think about. It's all there is to do. You're working with these two forces, two dimensions, horizontal and vertical.

[32:56]

And this is the center, right here. and your body goes up and the ground goes across and you're constantly aware of yourself in that relationship constantly aware of yourself in that relationship so you start from right here and you hold your body real straight In everything you do, you're aware of how you're holding your body straight. Not leaning to the side this way. Not leaning this way. This is not mindfulness. If there's nothing else to do, you might just as well do it thoroughly. All the vertebrae are lined up on each other.

[33:58]

How do they do that? How do they get lined up? How do they remain straight? then the neck, and then the head is on top. Not like this. How do you do that? How do you keep it up there? How do you make it work? The ears are in line with the shoulders. The ears should be in line with your shoulders, not in line with your knees. and your nose is in line with your navel. And you keep that in mind all the time, whether you're sitting Zazen or walking Kinhin. I notice we don't pay attention to that when we walk Kinhin. Some people do, but mostly Kinhin is just kind of casual walking in a form.

[35:03]

In Kinhin, we should have that real focused attention. Really be aware of our step and our posture. We carry ourselves in Kinhin just exactly the same way as in Zazen. So Kinhin is another form of Zazen. walking zazen, walking stillness. And if you have to leave at that time, for some reason, it's okay. But it's not a break. Even though there are changes of activity, there are really no breaks. So even our break is zazen.

[36:08]

How do you take your break as zazen? Break, you know, it's good to rest. You can exercise or you can rest. The morning break is pretty long. I mean the lunch break. Is it the lunch break or the morning break? Lunch break is pretty long. so that you can rest and also exercise. Sometimes we have an exercise period. In the recent past, we've had an exercise period. But rather than have an exercise period, we just have a longer break after lunch, and that's when you can do your exercise. Now, this thing about vertical and horizontal. It's good to be aware of how you wear your clothes.

[37:13]

It reflects your mindfulness. For instance, how is your collar? Is your collar way down here inside your rope? with your raksu kind of askew so that it's off, back of it sitting off your shoulder. If you're going to pay attention to your body, then you have to pay attention to what your body is, what you're wearing on your body. It helps you, you know, to straighten out your clothes, keep your collar straight. Keep your clothes kind of neat. Keep your rocks so straight. Is it straight? Every time you get up, is it straight? Am I wearing it straight? Am I clothes straight? Is my shirt tail hanging out?

[38:21]

This is like body awareness. So your awareness is starting from here, coming from here, and radiating out. in all directions. So everything that you come into contact with, you have some relationship with. And if you're crooked, you see things in a funny way. So when you fix the altar, when you clean the altar, you line everything up, you know, very carefully is the incense bowl in line with the Buddha's nose? And is it in line with that little spot down at the bottom of the altar? All those legs kind of lined up with each other? That helps you to orient yourself. When you go out the door,

[39:25]

You close the door in a way that has some relationship to your step, the sound of your walking, or the no sound of your walking, and the way you handle the door, the way you handle your body, and the way you handle the door are the same. The way you think about yourself and the way you think about things are the same. So when you pick up a cup, are you picking it up with your whole body and mind, or are you just kind of picking it up as an object? So when we come into the zendo, I don't mean the zendo, when we're practicing here for seven days, we don't treat anything as an object. We treat everything as ourself.

[40:29]

Everything is me. If you want to know, what am I? Just treat everything as yourself. So, it's myself relating to myself. Everything is a mirror for us and reflects us, reflects back, tells us what we're doing. So this is the kind of mind that I want us to practice with these seven days. And this is the kind of practice that you can extend into your daily life.

[41:38]

You should be able to come back and forth in and out of the zindo and still have the same quality of life So when we bow to each other, even if it's just a slight bow, it should be real. Otherwise, don't bother. Where you meet is here. The going down and the coming up is just to get there.

[42:39]

This is where we meet. When it stops. You have to stop. You can't just bow. You've got to stop. I have more to say, Our will, our seven days, progresses. During the Sashin, we have a pretty good number of people sitting for seven days, and that's very nice. But during the Sashin, there'll be more people coming for part-time. And the weekend will be the fullest.

[43:42]

So don't be surprised if you see people coming and going. Mostly they'll be coming. We try to work it so that people don't come and go so much. Mostly they come. They add to it. And there will be people who will come in the morning for regular Zazen and in the evening for regular Zazen. Some people will be coming in the morning and the evening, and the weekend, and go to work in between. Did you have another? Yeah, back to what Eric was asking about procedures, and I just wanted to share something, since I won't be here when you really go into this, you know, and talk about what to keep and what not. I just wanted to say that where I first started to practice, you know, I learned all of those different things, dental procedures, and all that.

[44:48]

And then when I was in Japan a year ago, I stayed at a heiji for five days, and that was almost like a sashimi. You know, I didn't speak a word of Japanese. I was amazed that everything I had learned was exactly the way they did it. And the monks who were helping us thought I could speak Japanese. Because I knew And I could tell what was going on around me because I knew in English what that ceremony or what that behavior had to do with. And so I really, I was very happy when I was there that I knew all of that and it made the whole experience very deep for me. And I also think that here in this country we don't know the traditions or we don't know how these things started. But sometimes if you ask a Japanese monk, you know, Why do we do this? There's a whole wonderful story behind it. So for us just to say, oh well, I don't understand this. I don't think we should do this in 20th century America.

[45:49]

But maybe we should. I don't think it's a matter of taking things away. I think it's a matter of just not getting confused. Subtle things change. places. Anyway, in the mornings, after our morning break, I have to take Daniel to daycare, so that if you see me taking off, that's when I'm going. Such a dreamer

[46:51]

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