which is going to be one month long. We have two of these events each year. One is the regular practice period, or not the regular practice period, but just the practice period, which is, I think, six weeks long in spring. And then recently, I guess in the last few years, we've started doing aspects of practice around this time. And the difference is that the aspects of practice is kind of a collective effort by the practice leaders. We do not have a head student and the practice leaders lead the classes one a week. So even if you are not signed up for this, which the sign up has already happened, if you haven't signed up for it you still can participate just by being here. And the theme of this aspects of practice is that teaching of the ancestors, and each week we'll take a different ancestor.

[01:08]

Dogen, Huining, Tozan, and the nun's name? Moshan. Moshan? Moshan. Moshan. I won't be here for the first couple of weeks, so I feel a little funny describing it, but it's what's going to be happening. This machine starts tomorrow and opens it up. So you know, our life is so fragmented, many of us, our life is so fragmented in different parts, just this urban, Bay Area lifestyle, that to have a have a focus, a practice focus for even a month where we all sort of look at the same kind of study issue is I think it's a good idea and helpful. In this information age we're just, these days we're just inundated with every kind of form of Buddhism and every kind of form of teacher

[02:18]

You know, in the old days it used to be that that wasn't so available, there was much fewer choices. But now, especially with the internet, it's overwhelming and I think there's a tendency to run off in 25 different directions, this teacher looks more interesting now, and then this teacher looks more interesting, and then this practice and that practice. And then even within Zen practice and even within Soto Zen practice, there are so many possibilities to study. And they're all seen to be magnificent. So just to pick one sort of segment of that and just one aspect of that and collectively study that one aspect for a month is a good focal point for us. So, you know, we kind of take for granted, maybe, the listening to teachers of the past, especially Dogen, Hui Ning.

[03:34]

These are people that we hear about all the time. But I would like to ask you to consider and to look at how we actually hear their voices when we read them or when somebody gives a talk about them, how do we actually take in what's being said? You know Dogen said that in Fukan Zazenki, basically his introduction to Zazen, and Dogen said that it doesn't matter whether you're sharp or dull, what's important is single-minded effort in the way. So speaking for the dull segment, I notice in my own way of doing things that after a while, there's a kind of, I don't know what I'd say,

[04:44]

lack of actually engaging in practice with what I hear about somebody who I've heard about over and over again. So I think that's what's important is somehow to actually be able to listen to what our ancestors have said or are saying to us but not listening like you're in a literature class and the teacher is going through a survey of wonderful classical literature. It's not a survey. This is aspect of practice. This is practice. So the question is, my question to you is, how do we make listening and considering what the ancestors have said into practice, rather than just, oh, you know, having a nice, warm, fuzzy feeling about how wonderful they were and how wonderful Zen is.

[06:00]

How do we actually take on what they're saying? And particularly, if they're talking about ultimate issues of life and death, duality, non-duality, and we may feel that our life is very ... our concerns relatively are very petty in relation to these wonderful teachers who are talking about the big life issues. How do we take their big life issues and really see it in our own life, in what we might consider to be our own petty kind of life? How do we see those issues? And what I'm suggesting is if we don't do that, it's like going to a literature class in college, which may be very fun and good and maybe inspiring, but unless, I mean, literature can be wonderful if we take it in, but it's the taking in that's the question, rather than just being a kind of observer.

[07:14]

I was thinking of the word influence, that the ancestors influence us. And what is that influence from the ancestors? And how does that influence work for each one of us? And if you think about it, this influence of ancestors is not just in Buddhism, in our entire life is like that. This also includes our relatives, our grandparents, our great-grandparents, parents, children, friends. You know in our entire life we're influenced by others. My personality is to be very independent and self-contained, so it's more difficult for me to poignantly feel that influence, but I'm well aware of its value.

[08:44]

The question is, can we really listen to what's being said? We have particularly when you hear teachers being spoken of over and over again especially Suzuki Roshi we have a warm feeling towards these teachers but because we've heard it so much we particularly people who've been around a while if we hear it over and over again Do we really listen to them each time? Do we really listen to what's being said each time? And it's really this listening quality which is our practice when we're discussing ancestors. And what is their influence that comes through our listening? there's no right answer for that because each person is different.

[10:43]

And while some point might be being made by whoever is giving a talk or conducting a class about the meaning of what the teacher who we're studying is saying, it's how we bring this into our own experience. that really counts. It's really, you know, because it's so, in a sense it's very complex, because we have so many teachers that we have access to in terms of what they've said, and the kinds of, and the nuances and the subtleties of what they've spoken are deep.

[11:50]

On the other hand, it's extremely simple. We're extremely simple. You could see us as being very complex, which we are, but in another way just eliciting quality is extraordinarily simple. If we have some preset idea about we're trying to gain an understanding, say I think we would all like to gain an understanding Although we say that we should be careful about having a gaining idea, most of us, especially if we're in a class or going to a talk, would like to gain some understanding. But the gaining supposes that you have a pre-set idea. You have an idea that we would like to gain an understanding. So this is one of the wonderful challenges of Zen practice in the way that it's been presented to us is how do we make the single-minded effort that Dogen talks about in the Fukunza Zen Geek, how do we make this single-minded effort without getting caught by a gaining idea?

[13:21]

How can we make an effort to listen to what the ancestors are saying to us and make that effort to listen and just listen without needing to gain something from it. And in Zen Mind Beginner's Mind, Suzuki Roshi says, he says, you ask me how we can make an effort without having a gaining mind or with being aware of our gaining mind. And he says, Just leave off whatever is extra. So the question is, what's extra? And only each one of us can know in our heart, what's extra? What's essential and what's extra? Of course, this is a dualistic way of looking at it, but so be it.

[14:29]

So you know in one sense we um an enlightened person or somebody who's who's realized the truth or realized how things are how reality is seems to be somebody who um is content with themself as they are finds finds everything they need within this situation right now. They don't need something extra, something more. And don't need to sort of fend off, you know, so-called evil influences. They can just absorb what comes. And then on the other hand, I presented the idea of being influenced, of taking in something from an ancestor, from a teacher.

[15:57]

So how can we bring them together? How can we be self-contained, satisfied, content with what we actually are, and yet listen and take in and be influenced by others, and particularly by our teachers? seems to me that to study just a little bit but to actually practice a lot with a little bit that we study is much more valuable than to study a lot but to practice a little bit with a lot that we study. So if you can study a lot and practice a lot that's the best, but

[17:09]

I guess it means incorporating, bringing into our own behavior. Whereas studying without practicing would be observing, but without bringing in, observing but without actually engaging. And looking over my own history I would say that most of my studying has been more on the observing side than the engaging side. It's very pleasant just to observe, to study, to read and very interesting actually the wonderful nuances and insights that are available to us within Buddhism nowadays. Suzuki Roshi says also, when he was giving a talk, he said, you should just listen to my talk when I'm giving my talk, but when I'm through, just forget it.

[18:22]

So that's another interesting thing. We could practice with the teaching of the ancestors and carry it around, like in the same way that we could carry around the practice of focusing on our breathing as a way of returning to what we actually are rather than being carried away with all of our distracted thinking and various drama scenarios. But on the other hand, maybe it's not necessary. Maybe just to listen to the ancestor, to the teacher at that time and then just go on. I think actually both ways are fine. In a minute I would like to have a little bit longer discussion than usual, and I'd like to ask you to relate some instance in the past, in your past, where

[19:40]

some teacher of some kind doesn't have to be a buddhist teacher and it doesn't have to be a so-called spiritual teacher it could be a friend or a parent could be a pet but somebody some being who has influenced you in some particular discreet way in an event, something they said, something they did, and if you could make it very direct and simple, not so much the scenery around the whole situation, but just how did you change or what shifted in your understanding as a result of this interaction? And it needn't be profound or earth-shaking it could be very simple very mundane but you know it's just interesting what causes us to shift our understanding our perception of the world how does that how does that happen because so much we're stuck in our conditioned way of being and our habits our habits are so powerful

[21:03]

And in some way, I think most people never really get to the bottom of their habit structure. And in a sense, our practice is challenging us to open up, to unfold our habits. So when there's an influence from a teacher wherever that may come from, that it tends to bend our habit structure, and it's a kind of a little awakening. It could be big or it could be small. I just wanted to tell one small story, one version of this, which is, I think I just want to tell a story. I'm not sure how related to what I'm talking about. But it's a wonderful story to me.

[22:07]

And it's a reversal. Rather than the teacher influencing the student, it's more the student influencing the teacher. And this concern is Johann Sebastian Bach. And this occurred in the early 1700s. Now we see Bach as maybe many people, including myself, think he's probably the greatest musician that ever lived. But in the time that he was alive in Germany, he was just known for being a really good organist. And his first compositions weren't actually published until he was in his early 40s, I believe. Handel was the rock star of the day, and Bach was just known as being a good organist. But organists were really important in those days because they provided the music for the church services. So it was a position of importance. And the eminent organist of the previous generation, who was in his 90s at this time, had heard about Bach and really was discouraged with the level of mastery of that instrument as he was getting older.

[23:22]

He felt nobody really understood how to play the organ in the way that he thought it should be done. So through some friends, they arranged to have a little recital where Bach would play for him, the young, upcoming organist playing for the 90-year-old master. And in those days, to be 90 was to be like 125 today. So they set up a concert or a little recital in a church, a big organ in a big church, just a few people. And what they did was they gave Bach a theme to improvise on. which would probably be a chorale. And so he sat down at the organ and he spent an hour just improvising seamlessly on this theme. And at the end the old master was just in tears because this was what he had been looking for his whole life and he recognized this He recognized that Bach was actually, the music was Bach.

[24:26]

There was no separation. This kind of extraordinary ability that he had to improvise polyphonic, multi-voice music according to rules of harmony and the rest of it for an hour and do it really well. He had an extraordinary ability and the old master was just in tears. So to me, that's really poignant. Not so much about how great Bach is, but more the fact that there's this communication. And not so much what Bach's state of mind was, but the teacher's state of mind of, not the teacher, but he's just the old master. His state of mind of, listen, actually here's what Bach is doing, and it goes down to his core, to his base. makes him cry because they both share this passion and this love.

[25:27]

And in a sense, that's what we're doing. We're sharing this passion and this love, but it gets clouded over oftentimes. So I'd like to ask you, we have maybe 10, 15 minutes, if you can relate some instance that happened in your life or some event in some simple way. Paul? That question is very intimidating. It's what? It's very intimidating. It's scary. It's hard to come up with. But Paul had a day's notice. I had 24 hours. So many years ago, when I was maybe 25 years ago, when I was 20-something, I wanted to make poor bean salad. So I asked my stepmother, who's a really good cook, how to do that. And she said, well, I never made it. But if I was going to make it, I would make it like this.

[26:37]

And so I made it that way, and it was really good. a staple in my diet. I made it many, many, many times. And then maybe, I don't know, 15 years later, another friend who really liked that recipe decided to put corn in it, because then it's called a four bean salad. And if you add corn to it, then it has protein in it. It makes a complete protein. And forever after, I made it that way. So I changed my habit, and it's good for me, and I make it as a staple. Thank you for bringing all the ancestors here today and I consider you one of my ancestors. Ancestry. Ancestry. Ancestry.

[27:39]

So what I've learned from you is that the people who have been around for a while get to do the hard thing, follow the schedule completely, just take care of things in a way so people who are newer can just have a little more ease to help them the hard thing and then we can just feel supported in that, so thank you. Thank you. I try to do the hard thing. I think you're doing okay. Andrea? Well, in the spirit of your questioning, Ron, I should probably tell you about how my dog teaches me all the time. And the dog's name is? Ananda. How my mind works. Actually, as you were talking, there's another question or another example that came to mind.

[28:43]

I really appreciate the way in which you're opening up our presence to the practice period. Some time ago, I was sitting at a retreat someplace else with a teacher I look forward to sitting with, and I was all excited because I was going to have a chance to sit down and talk with him as part of his long retreat we were on. And it turned out he didn't give dogasana. In fact, we didn't really do forms at all. And so I realized I couldn't talk to him at all. I realized that the only thing that I could do was watch him. And there weren't many things to watch, sitting down, getting up, putting the food in the bowl. And something amazing happened. My understanding of this practice opened up enormously, widely. with no words at all. And so when I think about the whole question of studying our ancestors, so much of our practice is about face-to-face transmission, that which is beyond words, or the words are kind of like the hanger of the practice.

[29:55]

How can we listen and feel that face-to-face transmission with these old Chinese and Japanese men that have been dead for centuries? Yeah, it's true. You know, mostly the way people study with their teachers is just by, in Zen particularly, it's just like being with your teacher, just every day. And it also reminds me, you know, in the Zen, especially in the morning, if it's dark, or if I don't have my glasses on, you see people walk in, you can't see exactly who it is, but just by the way that they walk, I can tell who it is. because everybody has their own ... they express themselves in the way that they move and they walk and that's very important. But it's true, you know, in the beginning we just finished a four-week class on the Diamond Sutra and the beginning of the Diamond Sutra is ultra-simple.

[31:01]

It's simply that Buddha gets up, goes out with his disciples and goes begging, comes back, eats breakfast, wraps up the bowls, cleans them, sits down and then focuses his mind and then gives a talk. That's the beginning of the Diamond Sutra and Shabuti is kind of inspired by the whole way that the whole comportment of Buddha as he's going through his very ordinary morning activity and that opens up the whole Diamond Sutra. His question is sort of based on, well how should we walk and how should we control our mind and how should we do things? But Buddha's own daily life in its most ordinary way is what inspires the discussion. But it's a good question that Andrea raises, is if you can't see, touch, or hear teachers, how do you receive what they say?

[32:09]

Eric? Thank you for your talk, Ron. It reminded me of a story in my own life that I hold rather dear when I was working in the kitchen at Tassajara for three months. And one of the other people in the kitchen was this friend of mine named Jerome, who who's a very good cook, and he actually works at the cook now, and had, actually, a shape amnesia for 20 years. Anyway, so I was really excited to be in the kitchen and cook. And I had a rather high opinion of my cooking abilities. I really liked cooking. My cooking abilities weren't bad. They were good, actually. But I remember because I would be hanging around with Jerome, and he'd say, so how are you going to cook this whatever? But I had this great way of how to cook. I'd say, I'm going to do this, and this, and this, and this. He'd be like, oh, OK. And I'd do it. And this went on for weeks and weeks. And then I remember how it happened.

[33:13]

But eventually, I wish there was a moment that I could point to. But eventually, I stopped saying how I was going to do it and asked him what he thought. And he was like, oh, well, OK. Let me tell you this, and you know, it was really amazing because he's, I mean, it totally changed everything about the way I cook, actually. Because I realized I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I knew something, but I didn't know what to do. And for the first, like, month, I had just totally missed this opportunity, because I had been so wrapped up in the idea of showing off, you know, what I thought I already knew. And now, to this day, when I cook, I feel, actually, like everything I do in cooking comes from the second half of those three months, when I actually started paying attention to what this guy really needed to do. And so I feel that, you know, when I just put salt in the water before cooking pasta, I think of him.

[34:20]

Your talk reminded me of this, because this issue of actually listening to someone, and how it's usually our own Early on when I first started practicing here, Mary Mosin suggested I read Uchiyama. And so I started reading, opening the hand of thought. And there was something in there that really, really struck me. At the time I was concerned about loneliness. And he said something in there to the effect that people try to overcome a sense of loneliness by connecting with another small self, but that doesn't work.

[35:26]

The only way to overcome the sense of loneliness is to feel the connection with the big self. a revelation to me. It was a real revelation. And I felt what he was talking about and it made a huge difference in my life. And I was also at the time starting up a relationship And understanding that and not looking to the other person as the person who was going to somehow solve your anomalies, it made a huge difference in the way I was able to relate in that relationship. In a lot of ways, that was probably the one biggest thing that came from Zen, but it certainly made a huge change in my life.

[36:35]

That is a very poignant issue that everybody, I think, feels in some way or another. And that really rings true. Peter. Thank you for your talk and your question. I really hope this won't embarrass you because the first thing that came to mind not or if he knew it before me, but I had been practicing here for a while. And, you know, Eric was just this scruffy 19-year-old kid with a ponytail who came to this endo and torn up jeans and a t-shirt and sat every morning. One of the good old days. Yeah, you know, and I was really, I was moved and impressed and inspired because I was so worried about how I looked. I mean, I was so into what do I look like and how do I look and do the forms right so I can look good.

[37:38]

And here was this kid who clearly had something internally about practice that was real, who would just wear his jeans and t-shirt and do everything I did and more. And then he went off to Tanzania. And now he has no hair. And wears the most formal attire that we wear in the Zendo, which is the complete opposite And so every time he goes up to the man and does his vows in the doshi, I'm struck with, this is the same person. But this is really not the same person. And it's just really inspiring for me to see. I remember once reading something about how the only way to really be with a capital B is to be with a small b, which is we just have to be ourselves. And if we're really ourselves, then we get to be ourselves. And I think every time Eric goes and plays doshi, I give him I don't remember what it is now, but I remember the essence of it was kind of like Zen spirit or rock solid or something like that.

[38:51]

And I remember when I heard that, I was like, yep, that's Eric. It fit. So thank you, Eric, for your community practice. What is the name? Something like that. Just one more box. When you were talking about influence, I was thinking of confluence also, and how waters come together in confluence, and different streams make a river. And practicing here, I receive influence from people, and then I'm not thinking about if there's a confluence of all of our energies together. And when I was Shuso, I was asked a question, how do you practice with a broken heart? If someone would have given me that question to think about, I would probably be trying to figure it out. And just in the next breath, I said, well, we're all practicing with broken hearts. There's this confluence of people and suffering and just working with that and how we influence each other.

[39:55]

And there's this synergy together, just carrying on. And I think, for me, that's the continuance of the ancestors and being homage. Thank you for bringing your question. It's interesting that Ross is just expressing his practice. Your way of practicing is to include everybody. You're the person who's just always this dare. Okay, thank you.

[40:44]

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