I love to taste the truth of the Dr. Westworth. I asked Andrea what should I talk about this morning. She said, why don't you talk about Sejo and her soul separated. And I said, oh no. But that's what I'm going to talk about. This is case number 35 in the Mumon-Khan.

[01:01]

I really like talking about this, but maybe I talk about it too much. Master Gozo, whose Chinese name is Wuzhu, said to his monks, this was Gozo, lived in the 10th century in China. you know, the mu'min doesn't give an introduction to his cases. In the booklet record, there are always introductions, mostly, but there's no introduction in the mu'min khan. So Master Goso said to his monks, Sejo's soul separated from her being, which was the real Sejo. So this refers to a story. And of course, I'll relate the story. But before I do that, I'll read Mumon's comment.

[02:10]

When you realize what the real is, you will see that we pass from one husk to another, like travelers stopping for a night's lodging. But if you do not realize it yet, I earnestly advise you not to rush about wildly. When earth, water, fire, and air suddenly separate, you will be like a crab struggling in boiling water with its seven or eight arms and legs. When that happens, don't say I didn't warn you." And then, Mu Man has a verse about the case. He says, the moon above the clouds is ever the same. Valleys and mountains are separate from each other. All are blessed, all are blessed. Are they one, or are they two? So, this case, Sejou's soul separated from her being, which was the real Sejou, refers to this story.

[03:23]

One day, well, in China, there was a young woman named, I'm going to give all the Japanese names, Seijo. And she had, when she was very young, a little girl, I don't know, 10, 12, 13. She had a boyfriend named Otsu. They were very much in love with each other. But her father, wanted her to marry. Well, when she came to a certain age, her father actually promised her to some old geezer, who she didn't have any feeling for. And she was very distraught, you know, because she really wanted to marry Otsu. So she ran away.

[04:26]

and she took a boat and went up the Yangtze River. But just as she was starting out, just as the boat was starting out, she saw a little figure running on the shore, waving, and it turned out to be Otsu. So she had the boatmen pull over and Otsu climbed on board, and they went up the river together. I didn't see the Yangtze River when I was in China, but I saw the Huangpu River. which doesn't, in Shanghai, the Huangpu River was the most interesting part of Shanghai because it's this waterway where boat traffic is continuous. There are these little boats that probably look the same as they did in the 10th century. 11th century.

[05:29]

And there are huge steamships and cargo boats all loaded down with aggregate that are so low to the water that the water washes over the decks. And all these boats are passing in each other continuously. Anyway, there's just a little side. So they went up the Yangtze River, is what the story says, and they found a little town, and they settled there. I guess they got married, because they must have got married, and they had two children. And they were living a pretty happy life. And then one day, Sejo said to Otu, you know, I'm getting, I bet my father really misses me.

[06:36]

I miss my father, my family, and I know he misses me. And he's not getting any younger. I think I should go and visit him. and kind of make up, you know. So Otsu said, okay. So they hopped on the boat with their children and they sailed down the river to the town where the father lived. And so Seijo stayed on the boat and Otsu left and went to visit the father. tell him that they were here. So he came and knocked on the door, and the father opened the door. And he said, oh, Otsu, gosh, it's been a long time since I've seen you. Where have you been? He said, well, you know, he told him the story. And the father said, I don't understand.

[07:41]

He said, Sejo has been in bed in her room for five years, in a kind of coma. And we've been unable to wake her up, get her out of bed. She just lays there. And Otsu said, No, she's in the boat. Let's go down and see her. So they went down, and there she was in the boat. And so they brought her back up. They were happy to see each other, of course, you know, but everybody's very puzzled. So as soon as they came into the house, the other Sejo got out of bed and came over and embraced the other Seijo. So as soon as that happened, they became one Seijo.

[08:44]

That's the story. It's taken from a Chinese fairy tale or a Chinese story. And Mumon uses this as a koan. So the koan is, which is the real Seijo? The one Seijo or the two Seijos? So the question is, which is your real self? Who is your real self? In China, when we went to China, We visited Dogen's, the temple where Rujing, his teacher, was. And we said, well, what is the practice?

[09:53]

They said they have both Rinzai practice and Soto practice. But the Rinzai practice, they stopped doing koans in the 30s. But they do have some koans that they use. And the koans they use is, who is sitting zazen? That's the main koan. Who is sitting? Who is doing this? So Master Mumen, in his comment, says, when you realize What the real is, you will see that we pass from one husk to another like travelers stopping for a night's lodging. Now, this can be taken to mean that there's something that transmigrates, like a, you know, that goes from one body to another.

[10:57]

This is a very tricky place because Buddhism doesn't believe in a soul that travels from one lifetime to another or one body to another. So the meaning here is more like one state of mind to another or one state of being. Every moment is a different state, is a new state of being. Dogen talks about what's called the Shrenika heresy in Buddhism. Shrenika was a, I think, a disciple of the Buddha. And what his notion was, was that, which is very consistent with a lot of Indian philosophy, and Indian religions, that there is a permanent entity called a soul which transmigrates from one life to another.

[12:01]

But this is not Buddha Dharma. Although in Buddha Dharma, there is the flow of energy which is continuously becoming and changing its form and shape. But there's nothing permanent, there's nothing solid that goes from one life to another. So that brings up the question of who is this? What is this person? Who is this person? So he says, when you realize what the real is, you will see that we pass from one state of being to another, like travelers stopping for a night's lodging.

[13:11]

But if you did not realize this yet, I will earnestly advise you to not rush about wildly." So his advice is, don't rush around here and there trying to find your true self or trying to find the answer. first seeking it here, then seeking it there, going to this practice, then to that practice. In other words, you won't find it by shopping. You only find it by stopping. So his implication is just sit down and be who you are. So he's saying, just do zazen. To find this unification of self, just do zazen.

[14:15]

Stop thrashing about, stop. And then he uses the crab as a example. When earth, water, fire, and air suddenly separate, that means those are the four elements, right? But there are also five elements, earth, air, water, and fire, and mind is the fifth element. When that conglomerate, which we call myself, which is made up of these elements, comes apart at some point, which it will, and it always is. You would be like a crab struggling in boiling water. When, of course, in order to cook a crab, they put the crab live in the pot with its seven or eight arms and legs. When that happens, don't say I didn't warn you.

[15:20]

So what would you do? How will you let this happen? How will you meet this circumstance? That's what this koan is about. How will you meet your true self? Because we live, you know, with the illusion. We live in a dream. And we have the dream of separation. Separation is actually a dream because we're actually... Our true self is connected to everything because we identify with a small self.

[16:29]

and feel our separation from the unity of life itself, we have this problem of suffering and fear. So, when we identify with life itself, we have less problem. And we can see that there's only change, there's only transformation. When we try to stop the process of transformation or hold it in a certain place, then we have suffering. So he says, But if you don't realize it yet, I earnestly advise you not to rush about wildly."

[17:44]

So his implication is Zazen, and Zazen is Samadhi, and Samadhi is unification. This is the meaning of Samadhi, to unify body and mind. in realization with the universe. If we find our unity, then we can always find release. Acceptance and release. Acceptance and release. This is kind of like the steps, the path, actually, of acceptance of this moment and release of this moment, and acceptance of this moment and release of this moment.

[18:57]

It's like the foot before and the foot behind in walking, as Sekito says. We enter this moment with this foot and the other foot is behind. And then we enter the next moment with this foot and this foot is behind. Leaving one moment and entering the next. Leaving one circumstance and entering the next without repeating anything. Where does it go? Where am I going? So, wherever it is that we're going, we must be just open to it, open to whatever. The Master Tozan says, when he was crossing the stream, he saw his reflection in the stream.

[20:09]

And he realized what his true reflection was. And then he made a poem. He said, wherever place I turn, I see myself. Wherever I go, I see my real self. reflected in everything. So, in Neumann's verse he says, the moon above the clouds is ever the same. You know, if you look at the clouds, that cover the moon. On a cloudy night, there's the moon and the clouds, and the clouds come and they obscure the moon, and then they move off, and you see the moon, and then another cloud comes and obscures the moon.

[21:23]

Or maybe the moon is behind the clouds, and it's very hazily lit. There's a saying, the hazy moon of enlightenment. seen through the clouds. The moon is still there. The moon is always the moon. It's always what it is. It really, even though the clouds obscure it and change it, its appearance, the moon is always the moon, shining as it is. And then he says, valleys and mountains are separate from each other. Valleys and mountains are separate. There's the valley and there's the mountain. But at the same time, the valley and the mountain are one piece of earth. They just look like one is up and one is down. But if you look at the mountain,

[22:27]

from the viewpoint of standing on the earth, it looks like the mountains are high and the valleys are low. But if you get up into the sky and look down, the valleys are high and the mountains are low. Simply, our viewpoint, high and low, are just relative. But a mountain is a mountain, a wave is a wave, but it's just an undulation on the ocean. A mountain is just an undulation and a valley is just an undulation on the earth. But we call them mountains and valleys. But they're all one piece. Then he says, all are blessed, all are blessed.

[23:35]

Everything is just the way it is. Then he says, are they one or are they two? Mountains and valleys, are they one or are they two? Well, they're two and yet they're one. This is the way it is with everything. everything is singular and yet it's not. Yes, but So, how do we attain this realization?

[24:50]

Sejo embracing herself became one. Which is the real Sejo? Well, which is the real you? How will you embrace yourself? Sometimes we call Zazen embracing the mind. Embracing true mind. How far will your arms stretch? So, you know, we say in Buddhism, in Zen, sentient beings and Buddhas are not two.

[26:23]

We are sentient beings, but we are also Buddhas. We also have Buddha nature. As sentient beings, we have Buddha nature. So one side of us is Buddha, one side of us is sentient being. Which is the true person, Buddha or sentient being? Buddha embraces sentient being, sentient being embraces Buddha. Buddha is the teacher of sentient being. Who brings us to practice? Buddha brings sentient being to practice. Buddha, sentient being is looking for Buddha, searching for Buddha.

[27:39]

awakening our Buddha mind. But it's difficult. But Buddha understands how difficult it is. If we really pay attention to awakening our Buddha mind, Buddha will take care of everything. So this is called great trust in inevitability. We have to trust inevitability. When the four elements come apart, we have to trust inevitability.

[28:49]

Embracing Buddha, embracing mind, and stepping into the unknown. Akin Roshi gave an example of somebody who was, he asked, well, what will you do when you're faced with dying? And this lady said, well, it's like waiting for the bus. When the bus comes by and the door opens, I just step on the bus. Do you have any questions? So the moon stays the same, but does it really?

[30:05]

Well, no, the moon changes, but everything changes, but it's an analogy. So, you know, if you carry the analogy too far, Then it's like someone asked, well, when the two sages met, were their clothes, what happened to their clothes? Did they merge? Did the colors change? My attachment to... When you have to see the Buddha, you have to look through the facade of your irritation and go right through that to see the Buddha.

[31:43]

It's like the analogy which I've given many times of the dog, when you shake a stick at the dog, the dog jumps at the stick and you can leave the dog all around with the stick. But when you shake the stick at the lion, the lion doesn't pay attention to the stick, he goes for the person. So you have to act like the lion. Not get caught by the stick. Not get caught by the irritation. And remain settled in yourself. And look for the Buddha nature. Address the Buddha nature. Is irritation extra? Yeah. I don't know about extra, we all get irritated. But when we react just to the irritation that's on the surface, it's like taking a step back and really going deeply within to come up with an appropriate response.

[33:06]

And when we look at the present crisis of the world, there's a lot of stick shaking and a lot of barking after the stick. And there's a necessity to go deeper before doing something rash and coming up with an appropriate response. I wonder if, I mean, it sounds like a, well, a long process and rather difficult. I mean, it would seem that one would not intentionally shake a stick at a lion. If one could help it, one might not be up to it, or confronting a lion. And up to what?

[34:12]

I said one might not be—I mean, this would seem to be a process of development if one is lucky enough to be able to do that. I mean, one would rather not confront a lion until one were another lion or something. Well, I think that if we are always in the mode, see, the quick fix is, how shall I approach something? But you have to be that person. You have to practice being that. Then when you confront a circumstance, you respond in that way. So we should always practice of addressing everyone as buddhanature.

[35:17]

You mean if they bite? Well, some people are afraid of dogs and they get bitten. Other people see the buddhanature in dogs. And even if they bite them, even if the dog bites you, you know, it's just a bite. It's just a dog bite. I know there's a lot of controversy over that. But if you are And if your mode is to address everyone's Buddha nature, even dogs and cats, then you don't run into that kind of problem as readily.

[36:25]

You don't create so many problems. I hear that story and you do talk about it a lot. I'm not sure whether to understand the situation where there are two Sejos as something is amiss or that's just the situation then and there's a later situation when there's only one Sejo. Well, it's more like one Sejo is inactive and the other Sejo is active. So the inactive Sejo is like nirvana. The active Sejo is like samsara. So when nirvana and samsara embrace, then you have your true self. When stillness and inactivity embrace, when the ocean and the waves, when the ocean realizes, when the waves realize that they are ocean, the ocean realizes that it's waves, then there's no problem anymore.

[37:57]

So is there a problem in that story though? Well the problem in the story, Well, you can say that, you know, she ran away from her destiny, but we can only take the story so far, you know. You have to make a leap and see the... what the story is pointing at, and not take the particulars of the story and try to connect them to the story, to the meaning, so much? No. Oh, okay. You had both hands up, so I thought maybe you had something urgent. We do have to watch this time. Okay. Yeah, we do have to watch the time. As a matter of fact... Well, one... Peter.

[39:01]

That's the best way. Then the creature just starts licking more. That's exactly correct. When the dog bites, you don't move. And the dog's like, oh. There's no reaction. There's nothing coming back to his karma. Not creating karma. You're not creating karma by, as soon as you react, you're creating karma. And then the dog is attracted to that. I've had a dog bite me. I remember walking in a park one day and a dog just came up and bit my hand, you know. Kind of sweet, you know. Because I like dogs, you know. I used to play with dogs when I was a kid. The dogs loved to play with each other, so I'd play with the dog like the dogs play with each other. Then he'd get you by the throat. You'd just lay there. And then you get him by the throat.

[40:31]

Anyway. One last one. There's somebody's hand, but I can't see the body. Okay. You were talking about how everything changes. Yes. Does your soul change? Does what change? Your soul? Yeah. Well, there is no soul to change. There's no personality. Even though we talk about personality, there has to be a person for there to be a personality. So we live in the realm of illusions.

[41:30]

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