An unsurpassed, penetrating, and perfect dharma is rarely met with, even in a hundred thousand million kaphas, having it to see and listen to, to remember and accept. I now vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's words. Good morning. Good morning. There are a few things that I said last night at our gathering that I just want to reiterate, logistical things. One is to say that we'll have more opportunities to gather and remember and speak to and about Sojin Roshi in the next couple of weeks.

[01:12]

And at a certain point, which has not been determined yet, there will be a cremation ceremony. And that will be live streamed so that people can can see that the date hasn't been fixed yet. But when we know all this stuff will be announced on the on the website. And also, there is what is called a kudo board on the front page of the website. And maybe Lori or someone can type into the chat the link for the kudo board so that it's a wonderful opportunity. So instead of sending sort of personal condolences to individuals or to say to Liz Horowitz or Daniel, we can see what we're doing in public and share it widely, share our thoughts and our sentiments widely in the community.

[02:29]

And just to say it is going wide. I think maybe you saw there was a piece in Lion's Roar. I've been talking to Tricycle, and they will have something about Sojin coming soon. And sort of messages that have been coming to and through me have been quite extraordinary and wide-ranging, actually. people commenting, people from five continents. And it's really amazing to see the breadth of feeling and, you know, mysteriously, how Sojin Roshi, how his teachings and his being communicated so widely

[03:40]

For someone who was, he certainly was not self-promoting in any way. And, you know, he kept this very quiet, steady presence here at Berkeley Zen Center. And it's really instructive to see how that steadiness can have this enormous reach and effect. I wanted to say something brief about honorifics and titles, because in the service that we did this morning, we referred to Sochin Roshi as Dayosho, which really means it means great teacher. or very high ranking priest.

[04:48]

We have these various titles. Roshi in Soto Zen has a little different meaning than Roshi in Rinzai. In Rinzai, it's a kind of ecclesiastic rank. In Soto, it's used a lot more freely, and it really means old teacher. or old master. It's a kind of intimate and broad form of address. So when I was practicing at Zuyoji in Japan, you referred to everybody in a, like you had the Tenzo Roshi and the Ino Roshi, and these could have been old people or young people, but it was, it sort of the, it went along with their positioned in the monastery. We don't use it that much. I really like the idea of that you that you kind of need to be old to be called Roshi.

[05:55]

And also one of the things that I've seen in the United States that I've never seen in Japan and it kind of like chalk on the blackboard to me is people referring to themselves teachers referring to themselves as Roshi. And I've never seen that in Soto circles. And it's not entirely comfortable for me to hear it used that way. So I think that in our formal, what I've learned and I've seen, so when you... When you have lay ordination or priest ordination, you receive a lineage document. And it's a document. It has all of the teachers, all of the teachers in the lineage from Shakyamuni Buddha down through Sojin or through me or someone else.

[06:57]

And all of the Chinese and Japanese teachers are referred to as Dayosho. They are teachers in our language. lineage. And when you get to, like on my lineage paper, after Suzuki Roshi, Shinryu Suzuki Daisho, you have Hoetsu Suzuki, Hakuryu Sojin, and then your name here. But they do not use that honorific daisho. So, usually we do not, we don't use that until a person has passed away. And so now, to me, sojin is sojin daisho in a formal sense and in an informal sense or

[08:07]

in the sense that he occupies our minds, that he is alive in our minds, I think of him as Sojin Roshi. And I realized yesterday that before we have the mountain seat ceremony in a few weeks, I want to have a photograph of him next to Suzuki Roshi in the founder's altar. That's a place that he occupies at this point in time. So those are just a few things that helped me wander into this talk. I had another completely different talk in mind and more or less prepared.

[09:11]

And that talk was on what's called the five remembrances or the five recollections. They're teaching from the Upajatana Sutta, which is in the numerical discourses in which You have everything categorized by the ones, twos, threes, fours, fives, and so forth. It's the, I think it's the largest of the, it's the largest or almost the largest of the polysuttas. And I was going to kind of unpack them, but I'm going to read them to you anyway, because I think they're, they're instructive and lead us into what we can talk about. So these are five remembrances, five things to consider on a daily basis, and they were taught both to lay people and to monks.

[10:25]

One is, I'm sure to become old, I cannot avoid Two. I am sure to become ill. I cannot avoid illness. Three. I am sure to die. I cannot avoid death. Four. I will be separated and parted from all that is dear and beloved to me. And five. I am the owner of my actions, heir of my actions. From actions have I come. Actions are my relations. Actions are my protections. Whatever actions I do, good or bad, of these I shall become the heir.

[11:27]

So... I think that many of these, whether we articulate them in this form or not, are issues that are on our mind, and certainly they've been issues that have been matters that have been on our mind in this period, watching Sojin in this transition. I mean, it's remarkable because many of us have seen him for so many years. And, you know, it really wasn't until recent months that he looked old. It's really unusual, just such an unusual

[12:36]

youth, not just a youth, but, you know, a a density and glow to his skin tone, you know, a vigor to his walk and expression and something that quite amazing for a person of of 90. And, you know, one could imagine It was going to be that way always. And then the illness really took its toll. But I find that I'm remembering him, even though I saw him pretty frequently in the last couple of months, I'm remembering the vitality. So this is part of, when we talk about the five remembrances, it's not just, for me, what that invokes is not just reflecting on the facts of my own life and the issues of karma, but I'm also...

[14:05]

thinking about sojourn, calling him up in my memory. So this word, the word for memory is sati in Pali, smirti in Sanskrit. And often that's the word that we translate as mindfulness. And I've never been in love with that translation. I think that the word mindfulness has a, to me, it's kind of, I believe it was actually the word that was kind of put in place by Victorian era translators with a kind of strong Christian undertone. But more literally, it means remembering or recollecting.

[15:11]

And those are interesting words, right? Remembering. It's like put all those arms and legs and limbs, put them back together and make a whole body. And recollecting also is, you know, Recollecting, but in both those cases, it's remembering, recollecting. It's putting back together something that was originally whole and can return to wholeness. And this reminds me of the Jewish mystical notion of tikkun olam, the healing of the world. in which the images of the world as if it were a shattered mirror that had broken into countless, countless shards that it was our job to recollect, to put it together into one whole.

[16:28]

So. When I think about this process, the five recollections or just my ordinary recollections, I find I'm applying that to Sojin. I'm recollecting him in my mind, even as according to our teachings, His skandhas or what was provisionally called his self is now flowing freely in the universe. But my remembrance has a lot of very particular aspects to it. I was just thinking of it downstairs. Before the talk, I was getting some water and I was standing at the kitchen sink looking out the window and it looks right down to his office.

[17:45]

And, you know, I was always I was always acutely aware of when he was there. You know, you could sometimes tell because the blinds were were open. But there was also a kind of subliminal sense of his presence that I picked up. I instinctively knew, even if I was up here in my office, I could hear, I recognized his car when it pulled into the driveway and the way he closed his door. And I think a lot of us also recognized the way he closed his office door in the morning when he came out to Zazen was vigorously, you know, it wasn't like careful, mindful, very slow and quiet.

[18:47]

It was, boom, you know, direct. And I'm remembering that he is in the details of or the sinews of my mind, and to say that it's very hard to comprehend that I won't hear that car door. I won't see him in the office. I won't be able to knock on the door and have him say, hi. And the door was always open, you know, and he was always willing to be interrupted. Now, maybe that's good. Maybe that's not good. But that was his practice. And it's something that's a really it's a great and challenging model for for all of us.

[19:52]

And just to say that. We did not always agree on everything. There were times of difference or even some tension between us. But at the same time, it was always reassuring to feel that he was there. And to know that he was accessible, irrespective of whether I wanted to avail myself of that or not. And that was incredible. It's a comfort. It reminds me of the old song, motherless children have a hard time when their mother is gone.

[21:01]

both mother or father perhaps, but there's a comfort we know when that person is in the world and we can turn to them. So the other remembering and recollecting that I am doing is I think I alluded to this last night, for those of you who were there. I feel like I'm gathering bits and pieces of myself. Trying to sense and take stock of what shattering or brokenness I am feeling that I'm not even necessarily fully aware of yet.

[22:11]

And to know that this was also the practice that he gave, that Sojin gave to us in the same way as it's the practice that Suzuki Roshi gave to his students. So in this, there's an expression that Sojin used that I, the best of my knowledge, he got it from Katagiri Roshi, and it's a kind of paraphrase of Dogen, that our job as Zen students and the activity of Zazen, which we which we are doing today is to settle the self on the self.

[23:16]

I'm not entirely sure how to express what that means to me, but it's like I see like a layer of self and then the self that settles on it. And, you know, this layer is a little vague and fuzzy. But when I settle the self on the self, then it's clear and vivid. And we know that the practice of zazen, We know that when we finish today, today's sitting, and we look out the window, there's going to be a clarity and a crispness to our vision, to our hearing that has been heightened maybe subtly by

[24:38]

By this practice. And I think that that's that's kind of it's not the purpose of the practice. It's the action of the practice. To settle the self on the self. And I think it's a really good question to hold. It's like, how do I do that? To bring up another matter, the other night when some of the priests were sitting around Sojin's body, we had a discussion without a conclusion. Where is he? and their various doctrinal propositions about what happens to the body what happens to the to the self what happens to the skandhas what about uh karma and rebirth and continuation

[26:10]

There's a line in our funeral liturgy that I've always loved, even though I questioned it. In the liturgy, there's a line that says, the great mystery is no mystery to him or her now. And that's pronounced with great sureness. And I find it very moving. And I confess it's somewhat unverifiable. You know, or at least to my sense, it is my the unenlightened part of me, which is very much alive. I think I've well, when you asked surgeon about. Rebirth.

[27:25]

I've heard him say several times. I don't remember. And I really like that. It's like this to me. It doesn't necessarily make sense that there's not the continuation of your energy or the continuation of your karma. But whether it's life to life. Maybe, but, you know, it's like that memory, I don't have access to that memory. So I don't really know. We had, I think I've told this story before. I did Sashin at Hokioji in maybe 1986. Hokioji was Katakuri Roshi's rural community. It was beautiful out on the border of Minnesota and Iowa, very near the Mississippi River.

[28:29]

And you could hear the coyotes and wolves howling at night. It was a pretty wild place. And the Zendo was a kind of tent structure. It had wood lattice walls, but it had a canvas roof that was tied down like a tent top. And, you know, at night it was like you were in a big sailing vessel and the wind would be whipping through the, through the yards, you know, through the, through the ties. It was wonderful. So one night during lecture, he said, okay, tomorrow I'm going to talk to you. I'm going to explain because a lot of you have been asking, I'm going to explain about rebirth. So I got excited. A lot of people got excited. We're really going to get the lowdown on this.

[29:31]

And he came in for the lecture the next day and started. And he got about five minutes into it. And he said, I can't do this. said the problem is i believe and you don't believe and so there we are we are left on our own to meet this mystery how do we want to continue we continue in each other's minds. We continue in the minds and memories of friends and children, et cetera. And the impact of our efforts are our continuation.

[30:37]

So I thought before I open it up, I'm actually going to sing you a relevant song, which I've sung before. And Last week, a couple days ago, not so long ago, I brought my guitar over to Sojun's, and I sang and played for him for about 45 minutes. He was kind of a captive audience. And he wasn't... particularly responsive, but Liz loved this. She said, oh, I want this song at my memorial. This is a song that some of you may know by Iris DeMint. It's called Let the Mystery Be. worryin' where they're gonna go when the whole thing's done.

[32:11]

No one knows for certain it's all the same to me. Think I'll just let the mystery be. Some say once you're gone, you're gone forever. Some say gonna come back some say you'll rest in the arms of their savior if in sinful ways you lack some say you're coming back in the garden bunch of carrots and little sweet peas i think i'll just let the mystery be They're going to a place called glory I ain't saying that's not a fact But I've heard I'm on the road to purgatory And I don't like the sound of that Cause I believe in love And I live my life accordingly And I choose to let the mystery be

[33:35]

wondering what and where they all came from. Everybody's worrying where they're gonna go when the whole thing's done. Well, no one knows for certain, so it's all the same to me. I think I just let the mystery be. No, no, One knows for certain it's all the same to me. I think I'll just let the mystery be. So I think we have some time for questions, reflections, opinions.

[35:01]

I'm going to give it back to Mary Beth to describe the process, okay? Okay. So as you know, things change, right? Zoom has changed its platform. We can no longer raise our digital blue hands in the way that we were used to. What you need to look for is the smiley face with a plus on it that says reactions. If you go to there, you will find that there is an option for you to raise a hand. So if you would like to ask a question, please raise your hand through the reactions, or you can type me a message and I will relay your question. You know, I just have to say... Not only is change difficult, but I don't like the idea that they made that they turned us into reactions. But anyway, there you go. Well, and you can go to settings, too, and change the skin tone of your hand.

[36:07]

So go figure. I do not see this. Penelope, are you trying to ask a question? I'm trying to figure out what you just said. I can't seem to locate the thing on my computer. So go ahead. It's not at the bottom, probably next to share screen or your chat box. Penelope, do you have a question? No, that's why I don't want to take time. Thank you. I'm going to call on myself. Who is it? Baika. Hi. Hi.

[37:09]

Thank you for that. It's so soothing and comforting to be with family today. So I don't know how much to say, but thank you for this song. That was beautiful and your talk. And it just feels really good to be here. So thank you for that. Thank you for being here. You were there last night, too, right? Yeah, I was. Not for the whole time. And then I was late for Zaza this morning, but that's a whole other story. Sorry. It's always wonderful to see you and absolutely family. Yeah. Yeah. No mistake. No mystery. Just to say, that was kind of that was the really the Key reason that I wanted to ordain was that I realized I wanted to be in this family. And, you know, more and more, we're even in this loss.

[38:16]

We are forging family. And so we really need to take care of each other. Mary Beth, I'm seeing hands. Are you? Now I'm not hearing you, though. I think she's going on you, Ed. Go ahead. Thank you. Thank you, Hozan, for your talk. It's not easy to... even talk right now. But what I want to say is that when I think of Sojin, it's not so much his words, but I think about the way he held his teacup.

[39:38]

And The way that he folded his napkin on his oreo key bolt. And how he bowed at the altar. And like you, whenever I came in the gate, I was conscious of where he was in his office. That was the first thing that I thought about. So I'm just sitting with my sadness. Thank you. Thank you. I think it's important to remember, I mean, words are wonderful, and I love words.

[40:41]

And When he chose, Sojin's words could be very precise. But I do think that the true teaching is a body to body teaching. Yes. And just how he moved, how he bowed, you know, the just the teaching of meeting him at the door after Zazen in that bow of meeting face to face. That's really the true teaching, I think. Not that the other isn't true, but I think that's kind of how we learned. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. I have some more comments in the chat box.

[41:46]

So I just want to say, if you haven't updated your Zoom yet, it's possible that you still do it the old way. And also, if you're using something different like an iPad, it may be in a totally different place. can't help you there. But I'm also told that you can click on your name if you're in a different operating system under participants, and there you will see the option to raise hands. So if you can't find the reactions, it's possible it's in those places. So I'm now going to call on Ross Bloom to lower his hand and ask a question. Thank you for blooming. That's a good one. Thank you, Sojan. Thank you, Hozan. There we go. Great. Just a little history on the titles. When I was studying in New York with Bernie Glassman, we only called him Sensei.

[42:51]

There was no Bernie and not even Tetsigan. And when I came out here, I had to adjust to plain old Mel. And we used to call him Sojin Sensei in Formal Chosan, and that was it. But mostly it was just smell. And I really loved that informality and the seamless quality and the ordinariness of him. And then for some reason in 98 when I was Shuso, we suddenly started calling him Sojin Roshi. And it was not a formal proclamation, but as you said so eloquently in your description of this naming process, It just happened organically. And to me, that really felt like a from another place, the embodiment of Roshi. So thank you again for that little bit of history lesson for us. Thank you. You know, basically, that's how I recall. But I really don't remember, you know, what was the threshold there or why?

[43:53]

It just, you know, I I don't know. I don't know. But, you know, what I like, which we don't use because, you know, we don't use a lot of Japanese titles. But, you know, when I was in Japan with Owitsu Roshi, and this was he wasn't Roshi either. This was in 89, I think. The head priest. at a temple, even a small temple, is called Hojo-san, you know, which means Mr. Dharma Hall, and is very intimate. You know, it just, that felt, in that context, just right, that he was, and like, I can think of Mel as Hojo-san, you know, even though we don't use his terms.

[44:53]

That's nice. Thank you, Hosanna. Yeah. I'd like to give a plug to Ed Herzog and his video work on that Lion's Roar posting. It's a great 11-minute snippet of our dear, beloved teacher. He's just so alive in that work. So thank you again, Ed, for that. Karen Dakotas, would you like to... unmute yourself. Yes. Hi. Thank you, Hozan. Wonderful to be with everyone. I just wanted to add that I remember, I think it was a morning, Shosan, where we started calling him Roshi. Someone had an interchange with him and asked him about it, and then from that day on, I remember, I don't remember who it was, but I remember being there, and it was a lovely transition. It was like this, it wasn't formal, but it was like a lovely moment, and it's a nice memory.

[45:59]

So, Roshi. Thank you. I mean, I was really, I was very comfortable with that. I mean, he never referred to himself that way. Right, right. And it's just like, yeah, he's old enough. He has enough students, you know. He's done enough in this world. Roshi is, this makes sense to me. Right. And I like that you said we never refer to ourselves. Someone asked me here up in Bozeman, is it time to start calling you Roshi? And I was like, oh, my God. No. I don't know what to say to that, but that happened. Yeah. There you go. I had an exchange in Germany at an event that... It was an interview with His Holiness Dalai Lama, and I was participating in that. And, you know, he greets everybody when he comes on stage.

[47:01]

And so he walked up to me. I was wearing my robes. He said, oh, Zen master. And I said, no, Zen mister. I like Mr. Darmahal. You do. Thank you again, and lovely to be here. Okay, now Karen, Sondheim or Nancy. I just wanted to add to this thread. I remember being at a Saturday lecture. It was around 1984. planning his trip to Japan to receive Dharma transmission from Huitzu. And this was so new and foreign to all of us. And so he kind of described what was going to happen. And somebody raised their hand and said, does this mean we're going to have to call you Roshi?

[48:10]

And everyone burst out laughing. It was like a bunch of giggling children because it was kind of unheard of for us back then. And so Mel said, oh, I don't know. I can't remember exactly. I think he said, no, no, I'm still Mel. But I'm not sure, but knowing how little Sojin liked planning, which was not at all, I can see how things just kind of evolved. over time, like some people have said just now, Karen. So anyway, I just needed to add that. The only thing that I, the only naming thing that I recall him saying something about was that at a certain point, in formal situations, he wanted to be referred to as Sojan.

[49:15]

He wanted to be referred to by his Dorma name, not as Mill. And, you know, that took to some degree and didn't take to another degree, you know, but that was not a matter of titles. That was name. I have a comment from Ellen L. She says to please thank you for the song and also that she remembers Sojin telling her that things will work themselves out. And now I'm going to ask Kika. Thank you, Ellen. I'm going to ask Kika to ask her question. Thank you, Hozan, for your song. I really appreciate that as well. I just want to continue on the naming.

[50:19]

When I started practice, I knew Sojan only as Sojan Roshi, and I was very awestruck by him, and so I would very formally say it all the time. And then during a Doan training, he was talking to someone else, but I sensed he was talking to me when he'd just say, you know, just say, hey, Mel, hey, Mel. So I started doing that and it felt very stiff. Hey, Mel. But then I got into the hang of it and it was kind of an ongoing little bit of a joke because I did start doing that. And sometimes at the inappropriate time, like you say, Hosan, he didn't want to be called Sojan. But one of the last times I saw him, I just softly said, hey, Mel. Not very meaningful. Thank you. We all have our own. Each of us has our own. Intimacy.

[51:20]

With him and with ourselves and with others. And there's. They're all right. They're all correct. Are there any of the any people who don't usually speak who would like to say something or ask a question? Ellen Webb, I invite you to unmute yourself and ask your question. Hi, Ellen.

[52:24]

Hi. Where are you? I'm back in Oakland now. You're back in Berkeley? Oakland, yeah. Yeah, oh, good. So thank you. Also, I liked your song a lot and I liked your talk. I just want to say that my family knew Mel when I was, you know, kind of young in my teens and early 20s and always referred to him as Mel. And then when I started practicing in 1992, you know, and from then to really, you know, now, I've never really known what to call him. You know, I just never, you know, when I saw him, I just never knew what to call him. And I never worried about it. I don't think he did either. But I was always slightly confused. I'll just share that. Thank you. You know, he was not, as everybody knows, He did not stand on formalities. He wanted respect, but respect could take, you know, could have any name, I think.

[53:32]

Depends on what the energy in it is or was. So I really appreciated. I mean, his. To me, there's something about. ordinariness that's really precious. I think this is also part of how I came to practice was reading Chinese and Japanese poetry and seeing how there was a luminous quality in things that were ordinary. And the people that I've met, a number of people I've met who were very prominent teachers I felt their their ordinariness, you know, as opposed to other teachers who. You should excuse me, seem to cultivate their charisma.

[54:36]

And. You know, I just. That's what one thing I loved about him was that ordinariness, which is very precious. Yeah, and people. speak of it a lot. It's a little worrisome to me that as he has passed on that he will become specialer and specialer. Well, we, you know, I think we just have to wait and see, but how do we Be careful about the canonization and the objectification. And I think some of it is just inevitable. But I think there's in our community where we've had daily contact with him, we see it's a real person.

[55:43]

Who was. As somebody wrote to me. Who is. perfectly himself, but not necessarily perfect. Emily has a question in the chat. She wants to know the meaning of Sojun's name. Yes. Hakuryu means white dragon and I'm blocking on Sojun. Somebody knows. It was in my... Is it Essence of Purity? Essence of Purity, that's what it is, yeah. So it's White Dragon, Hakuryu, and Essence of Purity. And the Sojin part of that name was given to him by Suzuki Roshi.

[56:46]

And he only received one name, which is not so unusual, And the second name was given to him at Dharma transmission by Oitsu Suzuki Roshi. But his official Dharma name, your Dharma name is usually the second one of those names. So Sojun is his official Dharma name. And as far as I know, I need to talk to Akiba Roshi, you know, because there's a whole other deal with posthumous names. I need to find out if there is one, how that happens, you know. I actually talked to Kiba Roshi and Reb and explore that, but it's not so important to me. But I like knowing what the tradition is, and then you can decide whether to take it up or not.

[57:49]

Hosan, there are about six people with hands raised. Do you want to answer any of those? Let's be brief. And I'm okay. But that's it. Okay. Peter, would you unmute yourself and ask your question? Sure. Thank you, Hosan, for that song. And I feel in alignment with the sentiments expressed. But I'm also surprised at how challenged I am. I've been thinking about this topic recently. How challenged am I by the suggestion of Let the Mystery Be? It doesn't seem like it's a really easy thing, even though it kind of rolls off the tongue. I don't think you have a choice. You know, you can think about it all you want. Yeah. But you're not going to figure it out. Yeah. So we will go through it, whatever it is.

[58:56]

Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Peter. Thank you for being there all these years. You know, while there were, before there were any other priests here, when Sochi would go away, Peter would sort of mysteriously show up in the Zendo and carry the position of being a priest before, uh, maily and i or anyone was was ordained and i i always remembered that it's really important to me susan marvin would you unmute yourself and ask your question can you hear me um it's not a question i just had a quick story i think it was about 25 years ago, and I was practicing as the Tenzo, and it was one of those potlucks where after evening zazen, people would line up to come in to make their plates.

[60:06]

And I was greeting people as they came into the kitchen, and Sojin was at the end of the line, and when I greeted him, he leaned over and said, you know, in Japan, the teacher's always at the head of the line. but here nobody respects the teacher. So I said, well, and I took his hand and I said, come on. And I brought him up to the head of the line and he had this big smile on his face as he kind of cut in line. So about two years ago, I guess, when Lori and Leslie and I became, shared that position as Tenzo, we had a potluck and there he was at the end of the line. I said, you want to come up to the front of the line? He said, no no i'm really comfortable here thank you blake would you like to unmute yourself and ask your question sure thank you marybeth hozan sensei uh you were i believe you were speaking about category gears gary uh category roshi

[61:18]

in giving a lecture about the afterlife, and he said, well, I believe and you don't believe. Could you clarify what he meant by that? Yeah. I mean, his theological ground was in the territory of rebirth. That was his understanding of Buddhism. And, you know, for in... in a number of traditions of Buddhism, that would be a requirement. You know, you would necessarily believe in rebirth. If you didn't believe in rebirth, then, you know, why would you call yourself a Buddhist? This is a big theological debate that's been going on among sects for years. And I think what he was talking about, talking to was, you know, North Americans who are not grounded in that way of looking at things.

[62:25]

It certainly included me. So that's what he meant. Sue Moon, would you unmute yourself and ask your question? Thank you. Thank you, Alan. Favorite song. Also not a question. Two quick things. One is Hakuin, the great Zen master, a student asked him, where do you go after you die? And Hakuin said, I don't know. And the student said, what do you mean you don't know? You're a Zen master. And Hakuin said, yes, but not a dead one. So the other thing I wanted to say about Mel, Sojin, Roshi, was a memory just of the kind of ordinary person who did care a lot about doing things. He didn't stand on ceremony, but he cared about doing things properly and carefully.

[63:31]

And that was something I respected and learned from. And I remember back in the day when I used to be in the Goanrio, and sometimes I'd be hitting the makugyo, and he'd be standing up at the altar doing the bows and things. And tapping his foot, all of a sudden, he'd start tapping his foot to get me to get onto the right rhythm because I was going too slow or too fast or something. Oh, no, no. Anyway, it was a very quiet form of correction, which I appreciated. Good. I'm glad you appreciated it. Many of us have experienced that. I didn't always think he was right. Sometimes I thought, no, I'm on the right rhythm. But just to reiterate something that that Ellen Chang said yesterday, I mean, I think that his care for things could be articulated as basically don't treat anything or anyone like an object, you know, and that that's the kind of formality of unformality.

[64:37]

You know, thank you. Rondi or Charlie, do you want to unmute yourself and ask a question? Yes, thank you, Mary Beth. Thank you, Hasan Sensei. Charlie and I were married by Sojin Roshi, and so today I was looking at our photo album, and what I'm wondering if down the line, like there's some wonderful pictures in there, like we gave a gift to... Sojin Roshi, a little bonsai in a bag, and he's holding it up and grinning. And then there are pictures of him during the ceremony, very ordinary, but, you know, very familiar to all of us. And I wonder, I don't know if Ed is still there, I wonder if at some point we're going to have the Ken Burns version of the photo album, you know, like...

[65:45]

I think that would be really significant. I guess another photo is of lay ordination that I have, and that's precious, too. So I really value those documents, and I think other people would enjoy them, and I'd be happy to share them with people. Thank you. There are thousands of photographs, and presumably... At some point, when we have the means to do it, we want to scan them all and they will be part of the archive that's going to Stanford and will be all then accessible to everybody. But it's a really big project that somebody has to take on and But we've been talking about the archive committee has been talking about this.

[66:48]

And it's, you know, it's right up there as things that we want to do. So, yeah. I just have two quick comments. Before you announced the song, Hosan, I thought you were going to sing You Are My Sunshine. But then I knew that the song was to be something else. But... The words of you are my sunshine kept running in my head while you were playing a different song. And I want to say one other thing Ronnie was talking about our marriage. And I went to Sojan in Dokusan and I asked him to marry us in the Zendo. And he says, I don't think so. I don't believe in marriage. They don't last very long. And I said, well, we're going to be married one way or the other, and we'd like you to officiate. And he said, all right, my fee is $200.

[67:50]

And when do you want it? And we gave him a date, and away we went. So the more things change, the more things stay the same. Yeah, that's right. And then he did come to the ceremony because he had some event planned after. No, the reception. He didn't come to the reception because he had some event planned after it, you know, at the Zen Center. Thank you. I'm not going to sing it now, but the other really relevant song is Que Sera Sera. Very good. Whatever will be, will be. So is that everyone on the list? Yes, it is. Good. Well, thank you very much. And let's enjoy.

[68:51]

I'm sorry. Was that you, Filani? Yeah, I said I wanted to say one thing. I have a few things, but just maybe one thing. Okay, that's fine. All right. Oh, I'm not showing myself. I just wanted to say one time at the Zendo in the community room, Sojin was having a meeting with... I think we've lost her. Now I want to hear her. Are you there, Fulani? I am here. I'm here. Do you see me? Yeah, now he's on. Okay. He wanted to tell me about the name Fulani, that he had learned about it, and I already knew, and I had to pretend I didn't know.

[69:57]

I said, well, I just listened and just kept listening. And so, anyway, I just wanted to say that. Yeah. That's what I wanted to say. That's all. I mean, I have other stories, but I'll talk about that another time. Very kind of you to listen. I had to think about it first. I said, you know what? Maybe I should just shut up and listen. And I did. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you all. And let's enjoy the rest of our day of sitting. And we'll chant the Bodhisattva vows. Bodhisattva vows, right. To close. Please do not unmute yourself during this. You're living this? Yes. Yes. Beings are numberless. I vow to awaken with them.

[70:57]

Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it. Good morning.

[71:27]

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