Can you hear me back there? Yes, okay. We always have this microphone, Dharma. Okay, it's good now? It's fine, okay. Well, good morning again. This morning, I'm feeling a little bit reassured by something that Karen told me last night. She said, I hope I'm not putting you on the spot. She said, oh, Raul, just because you don't think we're after you doesn't mean that we're not. Or we're after you even though you don't think that we are. And I said, oh, great. It took me a long time to get over paranoia with Mel saying, Raul, yes, Mel, you're paranoid.

[01:02]

Raul, yes, Mel. Or me saying, no, but don't you know that this and this and that. So Raul, yes, Mel, you're paranoid. I said, OK, I'm paranoid. Now let go of it. Okay, so paranoia is the wisdom of the other. Paranoia. Like Paramita, the other shore. So, thank you for your wisdom. And Karen, thank you for your wisdom. So anyway, having said that, what I want to talk today about is the Heart Sutra. And so we chanted every day. And so I'm going to talk about the first five lines of the Heart Sutra, beginning with the title.

[02:10]

We announce it as Great Wisdom Beyond Wisdom Heart Sutra. And in Sanskrit is Prajna Paramita Hridaya Sutra. So we add, in English, we add the great wisdom. And so we could say, translate it like the wisdom of the other shore beyond wisdom. Or the wisdom of the other beyond wisdom. The other here means interdependence, the other dependent nature. which was Nagarjuna's term and then followed up by Basubandhu. And now we hear it all the time in terms of interdependence. So it's the other shore. The other shore is also the other shore of nirvana.

[03:12]

And it's beyond wisdom because it's beyond itself, like consciousness beyond consciousness. It's not only beyond the analytical intellect, but it's also beyond anything we can say about wisdom. So the wisdom of the other shore beyond wisdom then is a wisdom of the heart because it's the heart sutra. So, Hridaya Sutra. So, the Heart Sutra is the essence and the short version of the Prajnaparamita Mahayana Sutra, which has 600 volumes. You know, for a religion that sort of doesn't place much ultimate merit in words, Buddhism has the largest literature of all the religions, even more literature than Judaism, which places great merit on the word of the absolute or the absolute word in the Bible.

[04:32]

But anyway, the Mahayana and Zen reduces the whole 600 volumes to this one page. And then we recite it, but then we say, the meaning is not in the words, so the meaning is how we chant it. But another Zen poem that we recite says, the meaning is not in the words, but the meaning is not not in the words. It's not in the words and it's not without words. It's not in the words and it's not not without words. Well, I think that's a triple negative right there. And not not without. So, The Prajnaparamita Mahayana Sutra, the 600 volumes, were developed between 200 BCE, before the Common Era, and 400 of the Common Era.

[05:42]

And it's considered the second turning of the Dharma wheel. So it's a kind of Buddhist New Testament. It's Nagarjuna, turning the wheel of the Dharma all over again, and giving the original teaching a new meaning. So, you know, we have a Dharma group here that I'm in, and we've been studying the Heart Sutra for about one or two years. And it's kind of inexhaustible. At some point we're going to stop, just because we have to stop, you know. At some point you have to stop, even though there's no stopping, the Heart Sutra says. No origination and no stopping.

[06:43]

So I want to name the people in the Dharma group, just because I want to. Jerry and Alexandra. And Agnes. And Bill. I don't know if Bill is here today. I don't think so. And Stephanie. I think Stephanie's here. And Baika, who had to go visit her mother, especially after focusing on Tozan, the whole practice period, and Tozan slamming the door on his mother. She said, I got to go visit my mother. Sorry, Rahul, I'm going to miss your talk. Please go take care of your mother. And Marie and Anne Kennedy, although Marie and Anne have left the group, and we have two new members, Jed and Carol. And Dolly was in our group up to her death as well. Okay, so...

[07:47]

Prajna is a wisdom, I said, beyond understanding. So the words in the sutra are kind of beyond our understanding. So, you know, we spend a long time reciting and saying, you know, what on earth does this mean? What do these words mean? They're not meaningless, yet they're not exactly meaningful as we usually understand meaning. So we just recited in faith and knowing that it's talking about something in our nature that is close to us and yet it's beyond what we can understand. And so we could say the words of suchness or letters of emptiness. Mel says prajna is the fundamental connection to the principle that unifies reality.

[08:55]

So we say, because things in their own being are empty, then everything is connected to everything else. If things weren't empty, then they wouldn't be connected. because the connection is based on each thing deriving its nature from everything else. And we can only derive our nature from everything else or everybody else if we ourselves are empty and therefore we are connected. If we're not empty, then we're all a group of isolated parts disconnected from each other. which is a little bit the worst mental disease that we have is schizophrenia, and that sort of describes a little bit the world of schizophrenia. A bunch of disconnected parts living in isolation. Whether it's people we're talking about, whether it's the subject and the object in a sentence that gives a certain meaning to the sentence, whether it's neurons that are connected to each other or not, it's all the same reality.

[10:13]

It's a question of connection. So the medications are trying to reconnect the neurons, right? And Buddhism is the medication for interdependence, where we try to reconnect with our nature and reconnect with each other. That's our meditation and medication, right? So it's the meditation of interdependence and the medication of reconnecting the brain. So in emptiness, we actually feel very close to people and feel close to the world and don't feel persecuted by the world, but feel that actually the world confirms us, supports us. So it's the counter of paranoia. So, or says, everything is myself, or Dogen says, in delusion, the self, how is it, when the self advances the self, this is delusion.

[11:32]

But when all things confirm us, this is enlightenment. So in emptiness, all things confirm us and support us. And we're connected and interdependent. On the other hand, when I hold a form or a position, or just this person, or just Raul, I didn't choose that name. My parents gave me that name. Who is Raul? Just Raul, that's it. or Imo. I didn't choose that name. Mel gave me that name. Who's Imo? Just Imo. So this is the other side of, you know, when Baika was talking about in the practice period, Baika was our Shuso in the last practice periods, and she was talking about Tozan. And Tozan, when he asked his teacher, well, he wanted a parting teaching, they were separating.

[12:38]

And he said to him, just this one is. So just this one is. So this is when you are doing the Mukugyo, you're holding that position when you're Doan. Just this one is. It's just the Doan. It's just the Mukugyo and the beater. And the whole universe is included in that. in this. So just this one is. Everything is included as opposed to everything is separated and disconnected in when the self advances itself. So things are connected in interdependence and what connects things is cause and effect.

[13:43]

This is the law of cause and effect or karma. There's another aspect of interdependence and the condition or the relative side. And at the same time they're unified So wisdom is our connection with the unifying principle of reality, our intuitive connection, because things are also unified and connected by the unconditioned, or by emptiness. We call it the unconditioned, we call it emptiness, we call it the unborn, which is causeless. So this is kind of the koan of Buddhism. Everything is connected through cause and effect, and at the same time, everything is without causality. And this aspect of how things are connected, free of causality, free of karma, is what I don't fully understand.

[14:49]

And this is what we don't fully understand about the Heart Sutra. And this is our Buddha nature, something very close to us, very intimate, and yet we don't fully understand it. And it's okay. So we just say, don't know, don't know mind. The Buddhist, I don't know mind. Butsudho. Wisdom is also described as the lovely and the noble. And Prajna is the noble mother of all Buddhas. The noble and lovely holy mother of all Buddhas. So what is this noble mother? This noble mother is wise because even though she loves her children, she lets them go and be themselves at her own expense and even if she becomes dispensable to them.

[15:59]

So it's both the I'll take a bullet for you and please go and be yourselves. If the I'll take a bullet for you is the side of compassion. The please go and be yourselves is the side of non-attachment. So a noble mother has both sides. If she is compassionate but doesn't have the side of wisdom, then she keeps the children for herself, doesn't let them go. Um, uh, as a child, I didn't see my mother for two years, uh, between the ages of four and six. And yet I always felt that she was very close to me. And it's a whole story, like we all have our stories and, you know, great dramas, you know, and I don't have to go into the gory details, but that was my experience with the Mother of Wisdom.

[17:23]

And I actually have great respect for my mother, she's a very wise woman. but we're also so close it's a little bit too much. So then I can understand Tozen's slamming the door, so to speak, metaphorically, meaning our close, our connection has to be of a different nature because otherwise it's so close that it's, like Jung said, incest is kinship. Incest is kinship. It's the same, the union of the same with the same. So that has to be, the door has to be slammed to incest, it's kinship. Because otherwise it's incest, it's so close. So that's, for me, that's the metaphor of Tozin with his mother.

[18:27]

Hopefully he didn't do it in the literal sense, but it just means that cutting of the kinship bond. That needs to happen, actually, and the noble mother is the one that, even though she's close, she also promotes the breaking of that bond so that the bond can be of an other-dependent nature. Okay, so in the sutra, Shariputra asks the Buddha how one courses or practices with wisdom. So it's Shariputra asking the Buddha. And the Buddha doesn't answer, right? The Buddha asks Avalokiteshvara to explain it to Shariputra. Now, mind you, he has Avalokiteshvara. Avalokiteshvara sometimes is male, sometimes is female, is the Bodhisattva of compassion.

[19:29]

The Buddha doesn't ask Manjushri to explain it to him. Manjushri is actually the Bodhisattva of wisdom. So, the Buddha asked Avalokiteshvara to explain it to Shariputra, and Shariputra was the wisest of the arhats, of the disciples of the Buddha. So Shariputra, the Arhat of Wisdom, is asking the Buddha about how to practice with Prajnaparamita, and the Buddha turns around and asks Avalokitesvara to explain it to him. So why does the Buddha ask Avalokitesvara to explain it? Because wisdom has to be approached from the side of the heart, from the side of compassion, and that's why it is the Heart Sutra. Also, it's fitting because the Buddha doesn't want to explain the unexplainable. So, it's the Buddha in the manifestation of the Bodhisattva compassion that, I'll use that word, condescends to explain prajna and the teaching of emptiness to living beings.

[20:48]

So it's a kind of condescension. Condescension has a double meaning, right? Here it's the noble meaning of condescension, meaning he agrees to explain it, even though he really doesn't want to explain the unexplainable. So it's an act of compassion on the part of the Buddha to explain the unexplainable, and therefore he asks the Bodhisattva of compassion to explain it. Because it's a manifestation of compassion. So compassion is necessary for wisdom, and prajna is the wisdom of compassion. During the shuso ceremony that we had, I asked Bhaika, how does the bodhisattva practice with wisdom? And I asked that question not only because we've been studying the Heart Sutra, but because it kind of was a living question for me at the time. in terms of some conversations I've been having with Mel.

[21:56]

And so her response was, she said, I make a heart connection with everyone I meet. Okay, so that's stressing the heart aspect of wisdom. I like that answer. And that reminded me that when I studied Judaism, I learned that the spiritual heart, there's the physical heart and there's the spiritual heart, is represented by the empty ventricle of the heart. So the Talmud teaches there's a heart that's full of blood and there's a heart that's empty. And the material heart is the blood heart.

[22:59]

The spiritual heart is the empty ventricle. But actually, so the blood is the heart of passion. The empty ventricle is the heart of compassion. The spiritual heart is the heart of compassion. The material heart is the heart of passion. But actually, this is sort of dualistic teaching. It's not a bad teaching, but it's dualistic teaching in the sense that if you go to medical science, they say, well, there's no one ventricle that has blood and the other one is empty. Both are empty and full of blood at different times. So that's like the teaching of non-duality. So there's passion in compassion and there's compassion in passion. Samsara is nirvana, nirvana is samsara.

[24:04]

So how are passion and compassion related as to the wisdom of the heart? So I want to say first something about passion and compassion, and then I want to say something about compassion and passion. You know, when we meet someone, we have to be the empty ventricle that receives the blood of the other. So we meet somebody, we greet them, and then if we get past the greeting, we have a conversation. And if we have a conversation, we have to be ready to listen. And to listen then, we're listening with the empty heart. And the person is speaking, the person speaking is like the blood of the other.

[25:13]

And we're receiving their blood, we're receiving their joy, we're receiving their pain. We're hearing the stories of their lives which has pain and joy in them. And then we have to give them of our blood when we speak and turn. So we give them of our blood, we give them of our joy, we give them of our pain. Another way to think of this is we could say it's the heart of light and the heart of darkness. So the blood is the heart of light, and the empty heart is the heart of darkness. So when we listen to someone speak, they are in the spotlight, and we are enshrouded in darkness. We know who they are, but we don't know who we are at that moment. We don't know who we are at that moment means the not knowing of wisdom, which in Buddhism is represented by darkness, non-discrimination.

[26:22]

And because we forget ourselves when we listen in darkness, we have to forget ourselves to be able to listen to what somebody's saying. If we're thinking about ourselves when we're listening, which we often are, unfortunately, then we're really not in darkness and we're not really listening. So in order to really listen, we have to forget ourselves and go into this heart of darkness. And then this helps the other, when we listen from the heart of darkness receiving their blood, then the other person, this helps the other person to be seen in their true light, to speak true speech, and to discriminate on the basis of non-discrimination. And then when we speak, the other does the same thing for us. And if the other doesn't listen in darkness and starts responding to you on the basis of their thinking about themselves at that moment rather than what you're saying, so that means they're discriminated on the basis of discrimination rather than discriminating on the basis of non-discrimination, then we have to go back into darkness.

[27:38]

So we get interrupted. We have to allow ourselves to get interrupted by the other. And then we just go back into the heart of darkness. And then from there, we come back with a response. Then to speak about the compassion and passion, or we could also call it the emptiness of love. compassion and passion or the emptiness of love. I want to talk a little bit about what in, I'm, you know, in the secular world, I'm a psychologist and a psychoanalyst. And there we speak a lot about transference love. Transference love is the love that takes place between the analysand and the analyst. or between a client and a therapist, or between a therapist and a client, or between an analyst and an analyst.

[28:49]

They're both transference love. And it's also applicable to the relationship between a teacher and a student. Although the teacher-student relationship is not exactly the same. It's similar, but it's not identical. And, you know, the analysand or the client usually begins to love the therapist or the analyst for their wisdom. For what is perceived as, I'm coming to you because I see in you a certain kind of wisdom that could help me. I need something, I'm suffering, I need some help and it looks like you got something there that could be helpful and therefore I love you and this evokes passion. But actually that's an illusion.

[29:49]

because we really, the therapist or the analyst, doesn't really have the wisdom, or a teacher for that matter. The wisdom is really inside the person's, the client's, the student's own nature, within their own mind. But we play with the illusion, right, that the therapist or the teacher has this wisdom for them, like I can give you something, but We really are facilitators. I'm trying to think of the person that helps facilitate the birth. How do you call it? Midwives, yes. Midwives of wisdom. So often, you know, students see the teachers having certain kind of wisdom or charisma.

[30:55]

And this is often symbolized by a staff. And yet the staff may also symbolize how wisdom can be sexualized. and there instead of symbol, so how wisdom can be sexualized instead of being a wise understanding of sexuality. So the staff becomes a kind of phallic symbol, whether it's a male or a female teacher. What is it that you got that I want? Now, I say it's not the same, it's not identical, because professional ethics makes a distinction between the relationship between a teacher and a student and the relationship between an analyst and an analysand or therapist and client. They're not the same.

[31:57]

In both cases, a sexual relationship is not allowed, but in the case of the teacher-student or supervisor-supervised, once the professional relationship ends, a social relationship is permitted. So it just can't happen at the same time. Now a student may fall in love with a teacher and want the teacher to give him something. And this something doesn't have to be sexual. It could be a sign of love. The student wants a sign of love from the teacher. This is a kind of transference love. But the teacher can't give her what he or she has. The teacher can only give of their emptiness. Of the emptiness in their heart. So passion is responded to with compassionate wisdom.

[32:57]

Now, sometimes a teacher or a therapist may go on the side of the passion of compassion or sentimental compassion and try to respond to the demand of love by a student. And it's out of compassion. The student wants a sign of love. Please tell me that you love me. And it seems the compassionate thing to say Yes, I love you. And yet, this is a demand that cannot be, the analyst never responds to this demand for a sign of love. The responding to the demand for love doesn't work because the demand really wasn't about getting something from the teacher.

[34:02]

It's really, the demand is really about the question of the student. So the focus has to stay on the question of the student. You know, there's a famous passage in, classical passage in Plato's Banquet. And there, there's a dialogue between Socrates and Alcibiades. I don't know if anybody has ever read that. And the theme of the banquet is love. You know, the Greeks used to have these meals where they would get together and have a meal and then choose a topic to discuss during the meal. So this is the banquet. And Alcibiades was a soldier, a young hunk who was in love with Socrates, was a young soldier. And Socrates was a young soldier who was in love with this old sage who was Socrates.

[35:08]

And Alcibiades is drunk in the banquet and is trying to get Socrates to publicly acknowledge his love for him. But Socrates knows that in truth, Alcibiades doesn't want anything from him. He only wants to add to himself the title of being Socrates, the great sage's object of love, a love object. And he wants everybody to know that. I am the great teacher's love interest. And he wants to make this public. And so Socrates knows this. And even though Socrates actually does love Alcibiades, you know, in the Greeks, you know, gay relationships were normal. And Socrates actually had love feelings not just as a teacher, but had romantic love feelings and sexual feelings towards Alcibiades.

[36:19]

But he could also read what his game was. So he gives them this famous statement where he says, there where you see something in me that you love and desire, I am nothing. There where you see something that you want, I am nothing. So actually, what he was loving about Socrates was his emptiness, the emptiness of his heart. That was really the true desire. But that gets covered over with all this, you know, with the illusions and deceptions of love. So Socrates wants to go to the heart of the matter. Okay, I'm going to continue with the sutra a little bit, even though it's 11 o'clock already.

[37:37]

Okay, so I haven't gotten past the A of Avalokiteshvara. It's the aleph, you know, in Hebrew, the first letter is the aleph, which doesn't have any meaning. So it's the suchness within the word, you know? It's the A. Ah, ah, [...] ah. Bah, bah. Bah, bah, wah, wah. That's all I've said so far. No, kidding. So Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva, when practicing deeply the Prajnaparamita, perceived that all five skandhas in their own being are empty and were safe from all suffering. So in the

[38:41]

In zazen we have the experience of form and emptiness. We have the experience of calm mind and luminous samadhi, but we also experience the skandhas. And the skandhas, for those of you who may not know, is how in Buddhism we talk about the basic elements of self. of who we are, the basic element that makes a human being. They're subjective elements, actually. It's only when, with the Mahayana then, that takes it to the next sentences, all dharmas, not just the skandhas, all dharmas are marked with emptiness. But at first, the skandhas that are marked with emptiness are empty in their own being. So we experience this in zazen. We have the experience of emptiness. We have the experience of the body is emptiness, and emptiness is the body.

[39:47]

We can't separate the experience of calm mind and of samadhi from the body, right? They're inseparable. And at the same time, we experience all the skandhas. And the skandhas are, the first one is perceptions and sensations. The second skanda is impulses, desires, and mental formations. Impulses, desires, and mental formations. Mental formations basically is purposes and volitions. So when we're sitting there in Zazen, you know, planning things, I'm going to do this, or I did that, or maybe I shouldn't do this thing, or I shouldn't do that thing. That's the mental formation. That's purposes and volitions. Oh, I just realized I should do this instead. That's a volition. And three is body with its forms and functions.

[40:51]

All our bodies, with all the functions of the body. Then feelings, and the feelings are pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral. And then consciousness is the fifth skanda, and consciousness has all its levels and degrees. We have Mahayana psychology, which comes up with nine levels of consciousness. So consciousness refers to all these nine levels of consciousness. So, when the sutra says that Avalokita, Avalokita is the way of summarizing Avalokiteshvara, saw that in their own being the skandhas are empty, this refers to prajna, the penetrating aspect of wisdom, to see into the nature of things. And to see them both from the perspective of form, but also from the perspective of emptiness.

[41:55]

So things as they are includes form and emptiness. And again, we can't separate them, form and emptiness. So, meaning that they're empty is that in addition to the skandhas, there's no inherent self. So in addition to there you are, there we are sitting and having perceptions and sensations and mental formations and experiencing the body and consciousness and so on and so forth, in addition to all those skandhas, there's no inherent self. That's it. That's what we are. So empty of an inherent self beyond the skandhas. And it's the making of a self out of the skandhas that causes suffering. So we experience also that in Sazen. or in our life, you know, we're having thoughts and then out of that thought we make a self or we get attached to the thoughts or to the feelings or to the perceptions and then a self arises and then immediately with the arising of self, suffering arises.

[43:08]

Otherwise, if we don't attach the skandhas and we let them be what they are, then they're empty in their own being, and then there's no suffering, even though we're experiencing the skandhas. We're having feelings, we're having sensations, we're experiencing the body in one way or another. So with zazen, we work towards disidentifying with our thoughts. Disidentifying, I mean not making a self out of them. and not using them, not using the skandhas, the perceptions or the feelings or the thoughts, as stimulus for greed, hate and delusion. If we find ourselves getting greedy in relationship to the skandhas, then that's suffering. If we start getting angry about our thoughts, that's suffering. Or if we start, you know, constructing things based on our thoughts, and that's delusion.

[44:15]

So in Zazen, we learn to just let them be for what they are, and that's emptiness. OK. I think I could have enough time. You know, we've gone over all the different skandhas many times, and you've heard many talks and you've read many books about it, so I'm not going to go into detail about that. It's just to say that, you know, that all the skandhas interpenetrate, so you can't have one without the other. And if you try to find a definition for sensation or for perception or for consciousness, you go in a dictionary, they all refer to one another.

[45:24]

You know, sensation is defined in terms of perception, perception is defined in terms of sensation, consciousness is defined by perception, and so on. But sensation is just the hearing, all this hearing, tasting, smelling, seeing. Perception is how we develop concepts out of sensations. And consciousness is how we become conscious of something, of an object, through sensation. And perception includes cognition, includes language, and includes logic. So we're filtering sensation through logic and language. And that's why the sutra says, no perception, no cognition. So sensation is also a way of seeing directly into the nature of things in their emptiness.

[46:27]

So we emphasize seeing things as they are and not thinking or naming things too much. You know, the next section where he talks about they don't appear, they disappear, no tainted, no pure, do not increase, no decrease. This is kind of hard to understand, but partly it's an effect that this sutra is a response to a Hinayana understanding of the skandhas. because the Hinayana understanding divided dharmas into conditioned and unconditioned dharmas. And the conditioned dharmas were actually, there's a better translation actually that it's easier to understand what this means.

[47:38]

So instead of appear or disappear, say not created, not destroyed, So for the Hinayana, the conditioned dharmas were created, whereas the unconditioned dharmas, they were extinguished, they were destroyed. the conditioned dharmas were impure or tainted, the unconditioned were pure. So the Mahayana is, I mean this Sutra is responding to that teaching saying neither created nor destroyed, neither pure nor impure, neither increase nor decrease. Does it increase in purity nor does it decrease in impurity? It's like, increase or decrease is like numbers, right? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Decrease is 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

[48:39]

But each number is also 0. Each number only exists in relationship to 0. So 1 is 0, 2 is 0, 3 is 0, 4 is 0. So in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, as 0, [...] there's no increase or decrease. just emptiness. So in emptiness there's no increase or decrease. So the difficulty also in the sutras is just a historical and textual reference that we don't see it when we chant it, that it's really sort of a dialogue within Buddhism. And if we don't understand what the dialogue within Buddhism is, then it's harder to understand the relative aspect of the sutra. So anyway, I think I'm going to stop there, although this kind of subject is infinite in variety.

[49:49]

But I'll stop there and see if you have any comments or questions. We still have time, Richard, no? It's 11.15. 11.15 already? Were you trying to signal me and I ignored you? So maybe just a couple of comments or questions. Well, it's sort of like when we're in Zazen, and you experience calm mind. Calm mind is a function of emptiness. And you can't separate the mind of Zazen from the posture of Zazen. So, the mind of Zazen is the posture of Zazen, emptiness is form.

[50:54]

The posture of zazen is the mind of zazen. Form is emptiness. Yes? I know that in a sense, like you're saying, emptiness is compassion. In a sense, it is emptiness, but also it's really, really empty. When you're talking to a friend or to a teacher or a therapist, what you want isn't just a non-response. a response that says that, yes, they see exactly what you're saying, but more than that, they see it more than you do, or definitely more than you do, and it's really active, and it's empty at the same time. Right. Well, that's what I was saying, but the analyst, or just Buddha, okay, is listening from the heart of darkness. It's a skill. And it's a practice to listen from the heart of darkness, and then from there to give of your blood.

[51:58]

So then you speak. But to give truly of yourself, you have to first listen in emptiness. If the dialogue is happening at kind of the chatter mind, that's just kind of discrimination. So then you're not using the tool of language You're not using words to convey something beyond words. And that's the word that helps, that turns. Thank you very much.

[52:43]

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