That training and perfect armor is rarely met with, even a hundred thousand million kalpas. Having to see and listen to, to remember and accept, I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's word. Good morning, everyone. Mary Beth, how's that? Volume wise? Volume is good. You could tilt the camera a little bit more. We don't see the top of your head. How's that? Better. Yes. Thank you. All right. So I just want to acknowledge that this is

[01:00]

significant weekend in many ways we are first of all open to the public for the first time in two and a half years we've been open to the practice uh participants on saturday and we've been open during the week to the public but this is our first saturday and we are having two very meaningful memorials for Sojin, one tonight here at BCC and one tomorrow at Green Gulch. And everyone is invited online. I don't like to think of us saying goodbye because he's just always with us, isn't he, through his words and just in our bodies, really. And it's a way to acknowledge and a completion of that stage of his life.

[02:05]

And tomorrow is Father's Day, so I wish all fathers a happy, joyous Father's Day. It's also Juneteenth, which was the day that finally word got down to Texas that the slaves had been freed. And we're only a few days from summer solstice So get your feet on the ground. That's the most balanced day of the year. That's a practice I do. Get out on the dirt and then we'll have some vacation time. So my talk is called finding joy in the midst of difficult change. And I think we all know how it's been for the past two and a half years. lots of difficult change. And at the beginning, I really enjoyed that time, that quiet time.

[03:11]

And the roads were quiet. It was just so nice. The air was clean. That went on for quite a while. But after now a couple years, I have found that I grew weary of it. because we had so many cycles you know so it's going away well it's not it's coming back so there's just been up and down like a crazy crazy cycles and i got really a little bland and i found that i didn't know where my joy was i just couldn't access any joy um and I wanted to look at that. Was I waiting for something to happen that I would feel joyful? What was I expecting? So I really started to look and see, well, what am I seeking?

[04:15]

Was it some kind of experience? I thought it was. I could just get away. That would bring me joy. Or something that would touch me deeply. which I don't know what that was, but that's what my thoughts were. But I realized, well, I had to be open to what was right here, right in front of me. And instead, I was closed down. I was closed down with all my preoccupations, with my thoughts and my attention to what I needed to be done. So I started by examining the three states of mind, which we in Buddhism might consider like positive or wholesome state, negative or unwholesome state, and neutral. And I thought I was just living in neutral. So in positive, you know, we're really looking for the positive outcomes, seeing things in a brighter light.

[05:23]

Negative, we're kind of looking for the worst things to happen. And a neutral is really more a balanced state. And you're considering both sides. And it's more objective and calm. And you probably can make clear decisions in that neutral because you're really weighing both sides. And it's really not so personal. Really, as we would say, seeing things as they are. And it may not necessarily be attached to any emotion or feeling. It may, and it may not. But I think in that state, one is really more open to what is next. And I think we probably travel from one state to the other. all the time, sometimes quickly, maybe not so quickly.

[06:27]

But I could see the value in just observing that in myself. What state am I in, especially if it's not a wholesome state? Well, how can I shift that? But I know I was feeling imbalanced, and I know I was feeling a lack of joy. And it was funny because I thought I was being neutral. after looking at it it's really not a neutral state maybe i was kind of floundering a little bit on that edge of unwholesome so i don't know that any state is better than another state i think it's more about recognizing the state that you're in and studying that So the next thing I did was I turned to Dogen. And Dogen, in his instructions to the cook, that's a cult, he describes three minds.

[07:39]

There's the joyful mind. There's the parental or sometimes called the grandmotherly mind and the magnanimous mind. So I'm going to look at the joyous mind. So the joyful mind, Dogen says it's a little dense, but it's really important. He talks about it as a frame of mind. So it's how are you looking at things? How are you framing things? And he goes on to say, the man of a joyful mind or woman is content with their lot. So what they have and what they don't have, they're just content, not probably trying to change things or make it better. And even, he says, even in adversity, they see the light. So says he finds the Buddhist place, this person, he or she, in different circumstances,

[08:52]

easy and difficult. So it's not based on our circumstances, our lot, but it's what frame of mind are we bringing to our life. And in particular, he finds joy in painful conditions and rejoices, he says. Then he goes on The Tenzo, this is really written for the Tenzo or the head cook. In the monastery, they prepare all the meals for the Sangha, all the meals. It's quite an honor to be a Tenzo, I guess you could say, because they're learning so much. They're forming this connection. with the Buddha Dharma. So they really have this frame of mind, not just doing it to get the meals cooked, but really holding it as these three treasures, this offering is for the three treasures, Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.

[10:09]

So it's a much wider point of view, much wider frame that they're holding. And How they find this joyful mind in something is when they're wholeheartedly engaged in it. Just freely absorbed. So, I ask myself, and we ask ourselves, Well, first of all, we're not all going to be Tenzos, right? But where can we find our joyful mind? Where are we wholeheartedly engaged in to bring forth this joy?

[11:12]

Where do we find this contentment? And Dogen says, well, there's no greater joy than serving the three treasures. We're doing something out of pure love. When we serve our communities, when we serve our family, when we serve our self, that is the greatest joy. No greater joy than that. when we're doing it out of pure love. So we're really, we're arousing this bodhisattva spirit within us. And when we're engaged in that activity, it really brings a lot of vigor and energy. You probably noticed that, you're probably thinking about that right now.

[12:14]

Where do I do that in my life? You just feel so much energy and vigor. Because we're really using ourselves up. It's called using yourselves up. And instead of it being work, it really becomes a joyful practice. So that's all in holding that frame of mind. And you know, it's really not about excitement, which I think can be misguided. And that's what Suzuki Roshi says. It's not about excitement. He says it's more about being calm and joyful. Be calm and joyful. So this becomes a joyful effort. So we want to find ease.

[13:17]

How we find ease in our effort is through our Zaza. we're sitting on that cushion or on a chair or lying on the floor, however we do our asasana, we are just doing this in awareness. And there's effort, but within that effort, when we feel that ease, it becomes effortless. So that's how we practice developing those things. And so we asked, well, how else can we do that in our lives? How else can we find that calm, centered spot? So that we may have joy, bring joy. A friend was telling me a story about her teacher, Shohaku Okamura. And she was talking to him about a project that she was asked to do.

[14:20]

And it... It was a big project and she was already very busy in her own life with her own projects, but she really wanted to do it. And I thought Okamura gave her such good advice. He told her, only do it if you can do it with joyful effort. Only do it if you can do it with joyful effort. Because it won't work for you. These are parties if you take it on otherwise. So to understand Dogen's remarks on joyful mind, I think we need to ask ourselves, what direction are our lives going? Where are we heading? What are we trying to do with our lives? And what should we really be doing?

[15:21]

And how do we learn to settle, to settle into this life that we have? As Dogen says, accepting our lot just as it is. How do we do that? Well, I know for me, I have to have a lot of faith and trust in this practice. And more than just the practice, myself in the practice. I think, well, I have plenty of faith in the practice, but do I have it in myself? We need that faith and trust. This Hozon wrote on my rakasu, throw yourself into the arms of Buddha. Throw yourself, your arms into the arms of Buddha. And that's, for us, the three treasures as Zen students.

[16:27]

That's the way we do it. We throw ourselves into Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. And it is there that we can find a settled life. And Uchiyama, in his book, Refining Your Life, reminds us, this joyful mind is one of gratefulness and buoyancy. So those two elements you can't not have when you have joy. You're grateful and you're energized. So recently I saw this movie and it will be coming out shortly. I recommend it. Full of joy. It's with the Dalai Lama and Desmond Tutu. And they spent five days together in 2015. because their purpose was, they named the movie, this was their purpose, Mission Joy, Finding Happiness in Troubled Times.

[17:34]

And then the two of them, they felt just a strong connection. They just had a brotherly connection and love for each other. You know, we all have probably people like that in our lives where you just have that automatic affinity. And they also, I think is key, they discovered that eight-year-old boy in each of them. So they're just both have such mischievous energy together. They laugh so much and just joke. It's such a good time. So fortunate they found each other. And yet, you know, they have very different backgrounds. Desmond Tutu, of course, is a Christian, Dalai Lama, a Buddhist. And at the same time, they have common situation. They both faced very difficult and painful things in their country.

[18:45]

The Dalai Lama had to flee his country for his own safety. And Desmond Tutu, he faced tremendous apartheid in his country. So they had differences and they had common elements. So in this time together, these five days, the purpose was to exchange ideas about how they find happiness. Well, first they discovered that joy, I don't call it joy or happiness, joy is something that can be cultivated. And it isn't necessarily a feeling. You start to think about where does that joy come from? And I think it is definitely a state of well-being.

[19:50]

You know, I was reading just this morning a quote from Bill Fronsdale. how our whole practice is that we're practicing to gain well-being. Well-being. Maybe not necessarily exciting, but it's certainly a state of great contentedness. Because within that well-being, you feel balanced. You really can harmonize with everything. And there's a calmness, a deep calmness. Even when there's chaos around. And there's a lot of chaos around. So where do we find that calm center within? And that's the place to always return to. That calm, deep place within. It's that deep place of really zazen. Inner side is doing zazen.

[20:51]

So we want to return to that. You know, I had this experience with my granddaughter. She's eight years old. Mia is her name. And she talks pretty much nonstop, has so much to say. And I was visiting her in Denver and it had been snowing the night before. And so the next day we took a walk and, uh, you know, the snow was melting. And so the branches and the leaves were falling down. Uh, and she was very absorbed in telling me this story about she was really quite taking this quite serious. She had some money. She probably got some money from her birthday or something. And she didn't know whether she, she should buy this doll. American doll, really. I could see it was a very difficult choice for her.

[21:54]

And pretty absorbed. We were both looking at the ground because we didn't want to stumble. And we walked by this tree, this bush, rosebush, where the petals had fallen. And it was this rose that, you know, the upper side was magenta-colored, and then the underside was cream. And so the way they'd fallen on the ground, it was so beautiful. You know, some pajanta, some cream in this very sporadic pattern. And I noticed it, and she noticed it, I think we must have noticed it right at the same time. And this little eight-year-old girl just stopped and just said, oh, how beautiful. And I was just, just that moment of, I was just filled with joy that She saw it, I saw it, we connected. And I just, I felt so much of admiration that she had her little artist eyes on. So that was a small moment of joy.

[22:59]

So one of the first things that the Tutu and Dalai Lama found is laughter is central. Laughter is central. And so I think it's really good as they found each other Find someone you can be silly with. This is good like you find those old friends when you were a teenager, you know? So silly then. And just find ways to laugh and not take ourselves so seriously. We're watching a movie. I like to watch funny movies. Engaging with children so you can think about how do you find laughter in your own life? Children often say such funny things. They always bring a smile to my face. So laughter, you remember those workshops? I guess I still have them. Where you think, okay, let's laugh, and you gotta all shake and laugh, just to get those endorphins moving, I guess.

[24:06]

So find laughter in your life. And the second is, what they make is, Finding what is satisfying, we just talked about this, and a meaningful life, just as Dogen talked about. What is satisfying? What is meaningful? You know, Sojin, he said, the most practical way to understand the meaning of life is zazen. Because really, it's there where we study ourselves. We watch our thoughts. We watch our minds. So finding meaning isn't, as we know, based on the outside of ourselves, but it's an interior job. You know, it's nice. It's good to have things, homes, cars, whatever experiences, that's all good, but it's not going to

[25:13]

ultimately bring meaning to your life. It's not going to be long-lasting. So we need to study the interior side to find what is meaningful. And for me, of course, probably many of you, it's our practice, our spiritual practice as Zen students. And I think Sonja was a great example of finding meaning in his life. He loved the Dharma, and it was constant. And, you know, he just found such joy. You could see it in his eyes. He wasn't particularly a social person, not a person that liked small talk, but he liked to talk about the Dharma. And he just studied, and you could tell, thought about it, and loved to teach about it. He was a great example, that effortless effort in finding something that was meaningful and joyful to him.

[26:21]

You know, he enjoyed his life, and he told me many times, and I've said this before, but I think about it often. Even after my husband died, right after my husband died, when I was feeling a lot of pain and loss, he told me, enjoy your life. I was just looking back, enjoy my life, yes. Let's not forget the other side. Joy and pain exist together. So I do have this practice every once in a while asking myself, well, what is the most important thing? You have to stop. What's the most important thing right now? And do that. And often it reminds me that cultivating this inner life is really what is most important. You want to hear those words from the Sandokai, which we chanted yesterday, ending words, I respectfully urge you who study the mystery,

[27:38]

do not pass your days and nights in vain. So I stop and ask myself, am I furthering my time here? You know, whatever the task I'm doing is. So the next point the Dalai Lama and Tutu talk about is reframing and changing the way we see the world, which also Dogen said too. And so you really, you're looking at all different angles, which often we don't do. But you've got to see it from all different points of view. And we drop our misconceptions and preconceptions. Really, we're using our don't know mind. It's just a way that we can reframe our mind. You know, I read that. Jill Gobeck, she has a book called A Sane Life, and she reminds us that joy is something we find when we move past evaluation.

[28:50]

So we really have to reframe and let go of all those things that we've kind of based our life on in many ways. You know, the Dalai Lama, how he lost his country. After that, when he was here, his practice, he began to see things positively. All things, he found something good in everything, in all circumstances, and you can see that model. He did not disparage those that drove him out of his country. He just sees things positively. You know, lately I've been feeling a need to create a co-honor, some kind of mantra for myself. Replace unwholesome thoughts with wholesome thoughts. And because sometimes I get a little discouraged and overwhelmed with the things that I need to do.

[29:59]

So I decided, okay, I have this mantra now. I have plenty of time. I have what I need. I can do this. I can do this. It's like a little pep talk. But it does shift. It does shift things for me. All right, the next point they make is the importance of compassion. Having suffered such a great deal, both of them, they found, though, that suffering was an important ingredient for them. that helped them develop this compassion. So we do need that suffering, which we have, but out of that, we can develop deep compassion. And it's really in that compassion that we can enjoy joy.

[31:03]

We can really appreciate joy. I think the Dalai Lama said, the key to joy is to get in touch with your compassion and live from there. Just live from that place. And, you know, our Bodhisattva Compassion, she's on the altar here, is Avalokiteshvara or Kansyong, Kuan Yin. She has lots of names. in different spiritual practices. But she has the eyes of compassion, and she hears all the cries of the world, and pours down her water to soften the tears of the world. Some great Bodhisattva.

[32:05]

And finally, the last point that they make, which is similar to Dogen, is serving others, as he talks about in the instructions to the cook, is expressing that joyful effort when you serve others. And really, joy becomes the reward. When we help others, we do feel joyful. You know, at Harvard, they did a study. It's called the Science of Happiness Study. This is part of that film. Well, someone realized, well, they studied depression. Why not study happiness? And one of the key findings of that study was that happiness lasts, has a longer lasting effect

[33:08]

for those who do acts of kindness for others, as opposed to doing kind things for yourself, which is important. We need to do that. And that kindness lasts for the length that you're doing it for yourself. And that's good. But when you're doing it for someone else, that's a long lasting effect for you. So I'm reminded, I'm going to summarize now, that joy is really everywhere. It starts within me. It's not outside me. So I'm the one that cultivates it. And it's really when I'm open and receptive.

[34:11]

that I discovered all around me. So today, I wish you joy and maybe make eye contact with the tree. And there you can find some joy. It's right there, right in front of us. So we have some time for questions. And maybe you want to tell us different ways that you find joy in your life. So, Preston. Carol, I appreciate the different words you're putting to joy. especially the Uchiyama quote about joy as a kind of grateful buoyancy.

[35:17]

And I guess I'm so much wondering what joy means or feels like to you or within this tradition, because I associate joy with kind of like giddiness, Certainly laughing, something that feels really, really good. And I'm wondering what joy means, what it feels like to tune into joy amidst suffering. So when I'm feeling afraid or lonely, what does it mean to tune into joy in that kind of circumstance? Did people hear that online? Okay, good. Thank you, Preston. Well, that is the challenge, isn't it? When we are feeling down, where can we find that joy?

[36:24]

And I think for me, it's just dropping whatever's going on, even in depressed. That's the way I was feeling depressed, a little down. and just having to stop and notice. Like I said, just go make eye contact with the tree. Something that you like bike riding, getting on that bike and just going down to the ocean and stopping and taking it in. What is it in you that can bring up that joy? you can find some love of something. But I think it's opening the eyes, letting go, dropping preconceived ideas, and being there, just taking it in.

[37:25]

And it's very important to do for ourselves. It's the way we really help others. I know I've said this before, but I find it pretty inspiring. When my root teacher, Darlene, was dying, I asked her, what am I going to do now? She took about two seconds to say, be happy. So few people are. That's what she said, be happy. So few people are. That's giving us permission to be happy and joyful. Does that help? Ross? Hi, Carol. I have a comment and a question. My comment is that, as I heard it, if I'm not feeling joyful and there was an encouragement to go look at a tree or something that's classically beautiful, and it's a possibility that I wouldn't accept not feeling particularly happy or joyful.

[38:32]

I was recalling Suzuki Roshi's comment to Sojin, sometimes just being alive is enough, which I think is the undercurrent of what your talk was today, at least for me, just being alive and being happy or joyful of that. My question is, when you share the story of Shohaku and his student, as I heard it, he said, don't approach a project unless you have a joyful mind. Joyful effort. Joyful effort. And I'm wondering how that squares with, just do it, without a preconceived notion, or like, if I don't feel like it, do I not do it, and that sort of thing. Could you say a little bit about what's going on for the person, and then being asked to express themselves in some task or project? So is your question... What is just doing as opposed to joyful effort?

[39:35]

If I don't feel joyful and I'm asked to put the divider and take it outside or something, what would I do about that? Do I still do it or do I wait for joyful mind to arise? Well, I think there's probably a lot of things we just do and don't have the joyful. But maybe notice that. And how could we maybe shift that and find some calm contentedness in serving others, helping someone. You're helping someone when you're doing that. I don't think we're always going to have that feeling of joy. But if you can bring it to your projects, that's really good. I think the noticing is what's so important, not, you know, seeing, well, I'm doing this, but I'm not feeling joyful. Just recognizing that.

[40:35]

Thank you very much. I'm wondering if I should get someone online next. Karen has her hand up. Okay, Karen. Thank you, Carol, for your talk. Can you hear me? Yes. Can everybody hear her? Yes. Yes, Karen. I remember... A few months into the pandemic and Sojin was getting quite ill and a lot of people had died during the pandemic. And but personally, I was feeling happy because the the order was everyone stay at home. It was like stop the world. And I felt for the first time that it was that I got some rest and I was actually feeling happy.

[41:37]

I was very upset about the people dying, but internally I was happy for myself. And then I had Doka-san with Sojin over the phone. And I told him this, that I felt some guilt because Here I was sitting home doing nothing and enjoying it. And he said very adamantly, don't feel guilty, be happy. And I guess, I think about all the problems, the world has always been in bad shape for one reason or another somewhere. And that that doesn't stop one from feeling this internal happiness. What do you think of that? I mean, about the state of the world and how one's self may feel about it.

[42:41]

I totally agree with you. As you say, there's always going to be chaos. There's always going to be things going on in the world. I like that saying, you know, just shine your light in your corner of the world. And that makes a big difference. We're taking care of our corner of the world. And that energy does go out. We have to be aware of what's, I think. be aware of what's going on in the world and send out our compassion and love and support in any way we can. But we've got to take care of our life and those around us. That's how I feel. Thank you. Thank you. So don't feel guilty. Be happy. You heard that. Sojin's message.

[43:44]

Ellen. Thank you, Carol. This is a thought-provoking talk for me. I think you know and many other people know that I was always sort of defined as a happy person and a happy child. And it took a long time for me, really through practice, to sort of connect with the ways that I was sad and, you know, depressed and unhappy. I really had trouble kind of letting those feelings be there for me. And I'm sort of interested in the kind of intersection of, say, sadness and joy. The way that they can, they don't cross each other out for me anymore. They used to, but now they don't. They can really live together. And I'm just wondering if you've got a comment about that. Well, I think that's just right. Yes.

[44:45]

I hope people saw that. Heard that, the intersection between sadness and joy. Well, I think that's the same with pain, suffering, and joy. They do live together. I like to think of it as those moments. They just change. They look like they're together, but it's just changing so quickly. Pain, joy. So it's kind of like all of one piece. And you have to have it. I heard Sojin say that you have to have the opposite. You have to have both sides. And so, again, when you're in one state, be in one state. When you're in the next, be in the other state.

[45:46]

kind of resist so much, don't we, or I do, of ways, and it's just really accepting it, our lot, accepting our lot. Hosun, did you want to say something? Well, I thank you very much for this talk. I've been perplexed by a kind of Buddhist doctrinal point, which touches on something you were talking about. You were talking about pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral. And I asked Bhikkhu Bodhi about that because it seems to me that there are experiences that are simultaneously pleasant and unpleasant. That's just my perception.

[46:49]

But he said no. Which doesn't mean that that's true. He said just a very rapid alternation between those states of mind. But I think it goes to what I was hearing from Ellen. you know, that we carry within us, there's some things that we carry ambivalence about that are both joyous and painful, you know, and you can think of it, you know, there's people who get sexual pleasure from pain, you know, to be really direct, but I wonder what you think about that. Do you think that there are certain kinds of, even certain kinds of happiness that carry some elements of sadness within you.

[47:55]

Yeah, I definitely feel that. You know, I mean, just through the loss of my husband. It feels sad, but at the same time, I remember all the joy. You know, so it is, it is holding both, both things. holding both things together. I think that's certainly what's going on now. All the loss and pain and suffering people are going through. But remembering, too, that there is joy. There is joy around us and for us. And I hope they experience some. What occurs to me, in response to what you're saying right now is that you know it seems like we've been digging into Sojin's teaching of looking to the other side and Suzuki Roshi's teaching of including everything and to say happiness unhappiness to say positive negative

[49:12]

we're trying to step aside from that dualistic framework. And, you know, even if it doesn't, even if it seems like it's in contradiction to Buddhist doctrine, you know, we're going someplace else with it, perhaps. Anyway. Yeah. That's good feedback. Thank you. I wonder if I should just see if there's anyone else in the chat. Let me just see if there's... Maybe not. Mary Beth? Is there anybody? No? Okay. Susan? Thank you, Carol. You talked about the inner world and kind and calm. And you talked about kindness towards others. And... I guess I wonder what you think about this. Look, I don't see those as goals.

[50:20]

And I feel like our practice is teaching us to do the very next thing and to respond. that what happens on the inside and to and that it's perhaps in our response that kindness emerges not from like a thought like i need to go out and be kind but to to respond to kind of what's there in front of us i just wonder what you think about that or if that's your experience it is i i think you know it just reminds me of that co-honor story, the person grabbing, reaching for the pillow in the night, just a response, no thinking there, just taking care.

[51:24]

Yeah, I think we do it so quickly. We certainly do it raising our children and helping people. I think that comes through practice too. It seems like it connects a little to what if I understood him correctly, what Ross was saying about doing the next thing and not necessarily waiting for some bit of calmness or some idea of kindness or to come. So in other words, I guess what I'm trying to say is like, there's no gap. Yes. Right. I think that's really good. that point you're making. Thank you, I agree. Thank you. Okay, I think I wanna thank everybody. There is one question, Carol, from either Jake or Leslie.

[52:26]

Okay. One last question. Okay, yes. Thank you, Carol, so much for your talk. What came to mind for me when we're talking about joy and sadness. For me, that emerges when I experience deep impermanence and the immoral nature of things. Yesterday, I went under general anesthesia for a procedure, and I had this great experience of euphoria, as you kind of get further. But also, I've been told just minutes before that there were dangers, that sometimes you don't come out of this. And I remember saying to Leslie as we said goodbye to one another that morning, I said, no regrets. No regrets. No regrets. This wave of deep stillness and joy and yet knowing that it's all for the moment and you don't know what's next.

[53:35]

And that was okay. So that's all I remember. Thank you, Jake. It's a beautiful teaching. No regrets. Yeah, Carol, thank you very much for your talk. One word that came to mind for me was longing. And it seems like that's kind of in between. It kind of holds both a kind of a melancholy state, but also. an awareness of things. And it's kind of mysterious, but it seems to me that that could be part of this or another way to see the joy, but melancholy kind of at the same time of things. So thank you. Yes, thank you. And I remember I was struggling with that too.

[54:37]

You told me, Alan, you said there's always...

[54:40]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_91.07