This morning I want to talk about the fifth precept. The fifth major precept prohibits dealing in intoxicants. A disciple of the Buddha must not oneself deal in any type of intoxicants, encourage others to do so, or involve oneself in the causes, conditions, methods, or karma of dealing in intoxicants. For intoxicants are the causes and conditions for all manner of offenses. A bodhisattva should influence all beings to give rise to bright, penetrating wisdom. If instead, one influences beings to give rise to upside-down thinking, one thereby commits an offense." During the 60s,

[01:08]

A lot of people came to practice through drugs. In the 50s, there was really very little place to turn. And drugs were very big. We all learned how to use, we all got turned on to marijuana. And people were using heroin anything to get yourself high. I remember we used to, there were certain kinds of things that you sniffed, you know, to wake you up, but they were very potent if you took the insides out and ate it. And so people were really Of course the drug scene is even bigger today.

[02:20]

People didn't use hashish so much in those days. And there were a lot of new things on the market. Peyote was a big experience. That was a big experience, eating peyote. And then LSD came out after that. And I remember eating peyote. And it always made you sick. But we always felt good about it. We always felt good about it. It made you sick because there was something there. He said, you're paying your dues. There was something about Pele that was pure. It had some purity to it because he felt that there was another side. And then LSD came along, which is a much more purified form, so-called. But I started practicing and kind of left all that behind when I started to practice.

[03:30]

That was 20 years ago. And I never really had any desire or use for it since then. but I remember Suzuki Roshi talking to us about LSD and people talking to him about it and asking about they were trying to equate the enlightenment experience with an LSD experience and I think that's one reason why why he didn't promote the idea of enlightenment experience. He said there's certain times when you talk about, really promote enlightenment experience, and there are times when you don't, say you minimize it.

[04:32]

And he felt that Americans were always looking for some kind of high, some kind of big experience. that would change their life or lead them into some new realm. And he was just trying to get everybody to accept their life, to accept the dullness of their life. So he emphasized the dullness of your life. The plainness and the no, nothing interesting. that Zazen is not interesting. If you want something interesting, you should take LSD. If you want to get high, you should take LSD. And so, it was very influential, I think, in the way he presented the Dharma to us.

[05:40]

de-emphasizing any kind of high. He would say, people would get high during Sashin. And he'd say, as soon as you leave Sashin, forget it. Don't try to maintain your special state of mind. And of course, people always wanted to maintain their special state of mind, their Sashin high, their Zazen high. So he really brought people back to earth and emphasized being satisfied with your ordinary mind. But when he talked about this precept, he didn't really talk about so much about the morality of intoxicants.

[06:49]

And the precepts have a moral tone, but they go far beyond just morality. The precept says don't obscure the brightness of your buddha nature. And don't do something that will create a shadow or separation from your clear mind. Sometimes, you know, if we drink something or smoke a little marijuana, it changes, clears our mind.

[07:50]

And you can, you know, it's a kind of relief. In some way, liquor is medicine. And people use it as medicine and use it for enjoyment. And in most religious practices, not all, some, it's even used in a sacramental way. So there's another side also. If you smoke marijuana, it can make you more friendly. I remember that one of the themes of the marijuana people when they were trying to get marijuana legalized was stop fighting and smoke marijuana and love each other. It's true. It makes you more loving, more aware in certain ways that you're not aware of in your normal state of mind.

[09:01]

When you come down again, you're not necessarily so loving, especially if you can't get any more marijuana. Then you kind of get uptight, you know, and you start snapping at people around you. So, and especially if you drink, you know, you feel great when you drink or when you shoot up, you know, but when you come down, You're a tiger. So people got kind of tired of looking for something through that means. And they were really glad when Suzuki Goji came along and they should build Zen Center. And it changed a lot of people. really changed a lot of people.

[10:07]

Even though we have some immediate gratification when we take something, we don't have any basis for it. And so, People were tired of crashing out, and they were really looking for a basis, a real basis for life. And as I said, Suzuki Roshi was emphasizing plainness, no great experience, and just to be able to feel satisfied with that. And he emphasized zazen as an expression of your life. rather than as a means to attain something. And he also talked about a whole other aspect of the precept, which is not to sell Buddhism as opium.

[11:22]

The communists very accurately said religion is the opium of the people. of the people. And so he was very careful and a lot of people, a lot of Zen masters were very careful to emphasize not selling Buddhism as opium or as some wonderful panacea for your life. And it's really easy to get into that. You start talking about how wonderful Buddhism is, and how wonderful practice is, and so forth. And if we... What we experience, you know, is what we get. It's what we are. We experience what we are. And if you want to get something that you aren't, you shouldn't look for it in Buddhism.

[12:32]

You should look for it someplace else. So he always emphasized being yourself, getting what you are, getting what you have, actualizing what is yours. And that really sobered everybody up, sobered up a lot of people who stopped looking for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. And it enabled us to really put our lives in place, or live our lives in place, live our lives where we are. I never particularly had a desire to drink, so that was never a problem with me.

[13:43]

Drinking is a problem with some people. There are Zen students who continue to drink and even take dope. But the only problem, the biggest problem with that is that the problem you have with yourself and the problem that you cause other people is not a moral problem. It's anything that obscures your clear mind is a problem for you and a problem for other people. As I said, sometimes it's medicine, you know.

[14:48]

If you go to a party, I'll go to a party. I'll probably have some wine tonight. I'm going to dinner at somebody's house. I'll probably serve some wine and I'll drink it. But once I drink it, that's it. I don't have to drink another one or a lot. I can say thank you and drink some. And I can say, thank you, I don't want to drink anymore. And that's okay. But it's also okay to not, to just say no at the beginning. And I think that that choice is really up to you.

[15:52]

Up to each one of us. And it doesn't put you in a bad light. If it puts you in a bad light with people, then you should maybe seek some other company. Or just be yourself. You also inadvertently influence people. If you don't drink, it influences other people not to drink. Or if you don't smoke, it influences other people not to smoke. You don't have to say anything or condemn anybody. I remember we all used to smoke cigarettes. All of us. Almost everybody that I knew. And Suzuki Roshi said, when you're ready to stop smoking, you'll stop. He never said, you should stop smoking. You should stop drinking. You shouldn't da, da, da. He never said that at all. He said, when you're ready to stop smoking, we'll stop.

[16:57]

But you can't stop until you're ready. So he didn't try to make us stop. But when we were ready, we all stopped. Okay. So one of the important things about this precept is it's really a precept about attachment in the same way that the third precept about sex is a precept about attachment. It's really not about not having sexual contact.

[17:58]

It's about not being attached to anything, which obscures your clear mind of clear understanding. And attachment and obsession is one of the most, one of the biggest hindrances. There are, the Japanese people actually are great drinkers and It's pretty hard, I think, to be with most Japanese people without having a drink, having sake or something. I'm wondering about what it's going to be like when I go to Japan. deal with it as it comes.

[19:13]

I don't have any preconceived idea about it. But a lot of Zen priests in Japan, because they're in such close contact with society, also drink. and without really thinking too much about it. It's quite common to have very good Zen masters who have a drinking problem. I remember talking to Maezumi Roshi about his drinking problem. And he said, in Japan nobody thought I had a drinking problem. It's not a problem. It doesn't look like a problem in Japan. But here, it's a big problem.

[20:17]

We expect certain things that people in Japan put up with or accept. So if we look to Japanese priests as examples, I think we can be compassionate, but I don't think we should follow that as an example. So I think that the coming together of Japanese and American culture and priests and laypeople is not just one way teaching. But I think that we learn a lot from them, and then they learn something from us.

[21:20]

I think it goes that way. So that otherwise, there's no way we can continue together. has to be some reciprocal understanding and come to some way that is satisfying for both. Otherwise we're always east is east and west is west and everybody's very chafing at the bit to have our own way. But I think we still have a lot to learn from Japanese people and from Japanese Buddhism. But there are things that make it difficult for us. So if these things were not so difficult, I think we'd feel better and it would be easier and we would learn something more than I think we already know.

[22:37]

So anyway, one side of this precept is to take care of yourself, and the other side is to take care of other people. And not to be careful, not to get attached to anything that obscures your clear, bright mind. And especially something that seems so close. If you take marijuana, you can have wonderful religious experiences. It's true. You can have great visions, great religious visions, but there's no basis in it. And so it's a kind of near enemy. Looks good, but it's a dream. It's great for dreaming.

[23:56]

Our Zen practice is more clear and a little cool and not so metaphysical and no dreams, please. That was very hard for me to accept. Because I'm a great dreamer. It's not that dreams are not okay. Everything's okay, in some way. But it's very easy for me to get lost in dreams. Completely lost in dreams. So for the type of person I am, I needed some practice that was very strict and very clean. bring me down to earth. And then my dreams had some vehicle to work with. Maybe you have some question or want to discuss.

[25:21]

Go on. An obvious question to me is, I think in the original Pārimokṣa precepts that it says not to take intoxicants. Yeah. And in the Bodhisattva precepts it says not to deal with intoxicants. So it's like they say, well it's okay You want to take a little bit. Well, that's the implication. If you want to read it that way, that doesn't mean to say it's okay. If it's not okay for others, you know it's not okay for you. But if you have a very literal mind and want to make a case like a lawyer, that's what our lawyers do. But actually, the meaning is don't take and don't give. Don't sell and don't take it yourself. That's the real meaning. a long machine, part of the process of doing this machine actually is breaking down the ego in such a manner that the states that are induced by drugs to some extent also appear as a machine that I am consuming.

[26:47]

They are methods of weakening the egos of other parts of my personality or being more apparent. If you could take a little bit of a drug and help you, and that would actually help you in that direction, it would seem that it would be a medicine. And in that respect, it would be helpful as a practice. Well, there's something here that we have to be very careful about. And the thing about that is that our sasheen state of mind, Looks like, you know, we want various things to come out, to come up as a sasheen state of mind, or zazen state of mind, but actually there is no special state of mind which is the desirable state of mind. And that's the hard thing for people to realize.

[27:54]

Our states of mind are constantly changing. And we're not trying to attain a special state of mind. There are states of mind which come up in Tarzan which are like those induced by drugs. They're similar. But if you latch on to that as a desirable state of mind, then you're caught in an attachment And when that state of mind goes away, then you have some other state of mind, well, this is not such good zazen, because it's just plain, ordinary, you know, state of mind, and my legs hurt, dammit. But there is no special state of mind that we're trying to achieve in zazen. Just one state of mind follows the next, and whatever it is, that's where you live.

[28:57]

No drugs. Whatever state of mind you have, that's it. And that's your life. Right now. Just accept it. Be it. Well, was that sutra written in India? No, I think this one was. Well, Pramana Sutra supposedly was written in India, but probably was written in China. Although it does sound very Indian, because very flowery and so forth. Well, I was just thinking as you were talking about it, that so much of drug and alcohol use is related to culture. And how we look at alcohol and drugs has a lot to do with the culture we were brought up in.

[30:01]

And in India, for example, they have a very negative attitude towards alcohol in most parts of the country. And in some parts of the country, they use marijuana as a sentimental drug. But I think that we make, in this culture, we make too big a deal out of it. that we can simulate a religious experience. But I don't think that's how marijuana is used in those parts of India that I'm talking about. And I think that we're really very ignorant about drugs and alcohol. And I think that that's, my idea is that's why when drugs and alcohol are used in a religious context, in a ritualized way, they are useful. They're not necessarily, I don't think they're looked at as being something that by themselves will bring about an enlightened state of mind.

[31:13]

But they don't obscure the bright nature either. So they're neither one. But it's because they're in that context where they've been used for a long enough period in a particular way that they're very thoroughly understood in that context. And the problem with this culture is we don't know what they are. We don't know whether they're avatars or they're devils. And so we make whatever we want to out of them. And one thing that seems to be true of the nature of intoxicants is that you can make whatever you want to of them. Just like a lot of things in life. Yeah. They're neither good nor bad, actually. It's what we do with them. And they're not good or bad. It's us that's good or bad in how we use them. That's true. And also, the Indians, American Indians, have always used peyote in their religious

[32:14]

observances, you know, that's... everybody knows about that. And in India, the Soma was the... I don't know what it was, nobody knows quite what Soma was, but it's become extinct, but they lost the recipe. But it's like a kind of ambrosia or something that the Vedic peoples used to use for their religious observances. That's where the word somatic comes from. And it was... The great experience was at Soma. And so there are cultures and societies which make that kind of use of drugs, you know, and religious experience with drugs.

[33:25]

But that's not our use. And we can appreciate those uses. But We try, our effort is to not use anything that can help it. So I hesitate to judge, you know, those uses. For the Indians, they have very profound experiences. and they know how to use. It's very controlled. I remember when I was a taxi driver, I used to pick up a lot of Indians down at 16th of Valencia.

[34:39]

That's where they, in San Francisco. 16th of Valencia was Indian territory. And the Indians used to tell me that The Indians now were smoking cigarettes, which was very bad, because cigarette tobacco was sacred. And you didn't use it for your own purposes. You didn't use it just to indulge in. And they thought that was just another sign that their culture was degenerating, which of course it had already degenerated. Drinking was the same thing for the Indians. So anyway, these are our guidelines, kind of stuff to think about in relation to intoxicants of any kind.

[35:50]

And we don't say you should stick to or never drink or never smoke or something like that. But you should always be careful about what you do to yourself and how you influence other people and what you feed other people and to keep your mind free. Something about what you do for your own purposes that really strikes me. I feel like I spend a lot of time every day using things to make myself more comfortable and to not suffer much.

[36:55]

And I think that there are thousands of things that we jar ourselves with. It's not just drug and alcohol. It's being a busy person. Who knows what else? And I'm thinking about that bright state of mind. I want that for myself, for my own peace in this realm. And I'll use things in order to get that. And I think it's tricky to say that we're not going to use in order to have a bright state of mind. I think that my practice needs to be I'm not going to use in order to be where I am. which may not be a bright state of mind at all. Yeah, that's just a way of talking about... Right. But it's like if I just kind of be where I am, then I'm more with everybody else in life. If I'm trying to save my own neck all the time, I'm more by myself.

[37:57]

Something seems important about feeling connected to someone. Yeah. It's related to what Teresa was saying. I was thinking about the point that point where you have to make a decision about whether or not to take a second class or not, and what it is that fundamentally makes you make that one decision or another to take it or not to take it. And it seems it could be different things. It could be kind of just that Buddhism says I shouldn't do it, so I won't do it. more positive could be that I want to, I enjoy a sober or clear state of mind.

[39:10]

I enjoy that and I want to keep it. So I, although there's some pleasure in that intoxication, the pleasure of clarity is more important, which involves some attachment too. You might want to get rolling drunk with it. You might have to get rolling drunk with people, you know. We have to have some freedom from the precepts. It's very necessary. So that they don't catch you. And we have to remember that they're not ropes to bind you, but there's some wisdom to help us guide ourselves. And we just walk in a rigid way, walk our lives in a rigid way, but then we become rigid.

[40:22]

And if we just become loose, if we just walk our lives in a real loose way, we're just So, somewhere in between, you know, knowing how to gauge and how to judge. Because you have to think about every situation. Sometimes it's, you know, you have to let yourself go with people. Sometimes you have to tighten up. And you have to know when to do which. Sensei, isn't it traditional in Japan after Ohatsu In some traditions. Not all. Not all. That's true sometimes. See monks, there's something about Japanese monks. They don't want to be too good. They don't want to appear to be looking too good.

[41:25]

And they're not too good. You know, there's some limit, you know. You know, if... In other words, you know, you should show your... Huh? Yeah, your Oni. You should show your Oni side and let people know that you have one. Let yourself know that you have one. and not try to cover that up. But at the same time, to be compassionate and helpful. So, you know, the monks will even, you know, come on like they're bad, even if they're not.

[42:27]

so that you won't think that there's something too good. Is it Buddhism that says that you should know when to feel which? Should know when? Is it Buddhism that says you should know when to feel which? I'm confused. Who's Buddhism? I don't know. Why should you know when to feel which? Why should you know? So that you know how to act. Because every situation you can't figure out beforehand. You could figure it out. You can figure out a rule for every situation before you enter into it, if you want to. But, you know, some situation, if you have some flexibility in each situation, then you know what really to do, and still without breaking the precepts. But you have to, you may not know that right away.

[43:36]

So if you continue to study, then you, it'll help you to know that. But if you just say to yourself, well, you know, whatever I do is probably okay because there's no real fast rule. That's like taking that flexibility very literally and not being true to your own integrity. The main thing is how you remain true to your own integrity. And if you use that as a guideline, with the precepts, then you can do a lot of things without breaking the precepts.

[44:41]

And to the integrity of, you know, your practice. And make sure to the integrity of yourself as practice. This is a lot of flexibility in life. Especially if your bodhisattva, specifically Avalokitesvara, who has to appear in many different places with people and take on the characteristics of the place, enter into the place without losing yourself. That's hard. That's advanced practice. But still, we practice the advanced practice in the beginning, too. Is that okay?

[45:45]

Okay. Okay.

[45:50]

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