Good morning. Good morning. Several things. Can you hear me? That I want to talk about a little bit before we start studying. One is that in the course of the year, our chanting tends to stretch out, so that, you know, we start out with it kind of firm, and then over time it... So, every once in a while we just have to say, let's tighten it up a little bit, so that, like at the end of the meal chant, we're going... if we can just remember to keep the rhythm going and not stretching out because it'll stretch out infinitely.

[01:07]

The other thing is that sometimes we have knee problems and as we get older and don't move around so much our knees tend to the muscles around our knees tend to lose their tone. And when they lose their tone, then we start having knee problems. So it's important to keep our knees toned. And there are knee exercises which keep your knees toned. I had some knee problems about 15 years ago. I can't remember how long ago, a long time ago. 1984. You weren't 94. 20 years ago. And so I went to this doctor. And the doctor said, well, you know, there's this degenerative... I don't know how to call it.

[02:14]

Arthritis. And nothing you can do about that. So when he left, I looked, he had, there was this, in the office, I hang on the wall, there are these sheets, you know, that tell you, that give you exercises. So I just took the knee exercise sheet, and I went home, and I did the knee exercises, and it totally cleared up all those problems, any problems, knee problems I had. So I'm totally sold on knee exercises for your knee problems. And I have some. I have the ones, actually, that I took from his office. And I've been handing them out for 20 years. So if you want a copy, I can hang a copy someplace. I'll give it to you, and whoever is responsible for hanging things can hang it up someplace where everybody can see it. And you might want your own copy. You can deal with that.

[03:16]

We'll put it on the inside of the journal. Yeah. This study book is a little bit elaborate. It's really stuffed with stuff. It's very dense and contains a lot of... If you're passionate about this subject, it's great. But if you're not, it seems like difficult thing to deal with you don't have to read the whole thing you know you just read what is of interest to you and sometimes people say well I don't want the book you know which is okay you don't have to have the book I mean you don't have to own the book some of the books we will put in a reserve in the library and so you could check one of those out if you don't want to own the book

[04:23]

When we start studying, what we're going to do is continue to the end and then come back to the five positions, five ranks, to study that more intensively. So when we start studying that, we'll study Hakuin's commentary There's an awful lot in Hakuin's commentary that doesn't appear when you read it, so I want my commentary on that to be the center of our study. So when we do study Hakuin's commentary you will want to have a copy of the book to help you. Since Hakuin commented on it, was this popular in the Rinzai school, even though it was from Tozan?

[05:27]

Even though... Even though it was written by Tozan, was it popular in the Rinzai school? Yes. As a matter of fact, in the commentary, Hakuin says, people think this was just the study of another school. Meaning, the Soto school. Yeah. So I want to just go to the end from where we were last time and see how far we get today. So this is page 34. We haven't really studied out of this book yet, except for the five ranks.

[06:41]

And of course we have here the breakdown on the top, the breakdown of the characters, meaning of the characters. And then we have various translations, quite a few. One, two, three, four, five, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 different translations. And so you can get some picture, you know, when you compare the translations of what the meaning is pointing to. Some translation will look accurate to you, another one will diverge and look like something else. So you can see that there's a wide range of and often in the translations. So, this is why it's always, whenever you read something that's translated, it's always good to find as many different translations as you can, so that you can get a rounded picture, because the translation is according to the translator's understanding.

[07:59]

And sometimes we hear one translation and we get attached to that translation, then another translation comes along and says, oh no, that's all wrong. So it's good to be open to the various translations and to not necessarily say this one is right and that one is wrong. Because the translations are only pointing to something, the meaning. And the meaning is not in the words. So here we have the Cleary in our using our Cleary translation, and he says, a wonder if wondrously embraced within the real, drumming and singing begin together.

[09:16]

I don't know if this is Cleary or not. This might be... I don't think it is, as a matter of fact. It's the Zen Center, well, the Zen Center translation that the translation committee did, because drumming and singing was not in Cleary's translation. That's more literal. Drumming and singing. Yeah. There's still been a lot of different translations and I can't keep up with them all. Now we see inquiry and response. Yeah. But I like inquiry and response. The query is up at the top. Subtly included within the true inquiry and response. That's very nice. You know, you ask and then you receive. When you make an effort, I like that a lot, when you make an effort in practice, you get a response. People say, well what is faith in practice?

[10:20]

What does that mean, faith? It's a big subject, a wonderful subject. What is faith in practice? And how does one gain faith in practice? Well, one way of looking at that is that when you put your whole body and mind, all your effort into inquiry, so to speak, inquiry is a broad term, means inquiring after the Dharma, or simply means inquiry is like totally throwing yourself into, as Dogen said, the house of Buddha. Then there's a response, Buddha responds, and then you have faith in your nature. Buddha nature responds to, we say Buddha seeks Buddha. What are we seeking in practice?

[11:27]

We're seeking or self, true self. Buddha seeks Buddha. The fire boy seeks fire. So, it's like fire comes together with fire, right? So, when you put your whole self into practice, then there's a response. but your buddha nature responds to your effort, and then when you feel that and realize it then you have faith in your nature. So inquiry and response come up together. I like that, but here literally it's like drumming and singing arise simultaneously, so it's the same thing but it's

[12:28]

that's more literal, drumming and singing come up together. When you sing, a drummer will appear, but when you drum, a singer will appear to help you, to accompany you. So, you know, if you ever had the experience of things falling into place And when you're doing something harmoniously and your life somehow works together, the telephone rings and you know who it is, the doorbell rings and you know who it is, or you walk down the street and you know exactly how things are going to turn out, because there's this harmonious connection with things, because you're doing So that's like drumming and singing, you know, it's like you walk into the world and the world responds to you, but that's what's happening all the time anyway, and that's also the mirror.

[13:45]

When we walk down the street and we're feeling harmonious in that way, the world reflects you and responds, because everything is responding to down the street, when you know exactly what you're doing, all the drivers respond to you and you control the road without trying to control it. So this is like, to me, this is like drumming and singing come up together. It's like a harmonious, it's like the absolute and the relative And so this is, the rest of this, Hokyo Zamai, is just examples of this. Right? Just one example after another of drumming and singing coming up together, box and its fitting together with its lid.

[14:48]

Like a box and its lid. Perfect fit. Or two arrows meeting in air. Perfect fit. Hmm? Yeah, it's not like there's some skill involved. It's just beyond skill. Yeah. Yeah, can you say something about like knowing exactly what you're doing and at the same time not having any idea, you know, not allowing things to inform you and how that works together, like knowing what's going to happen. It's inexplicable. Kind of inexplicable. I mean, you can't really explain how that works, but you just know that it works. And because it says together, it sounds like there's no... like a moment before knowledge?

[15:52]

Well, there's different kinds of knowledge. It's intuition. That's where I'm confused. Are you saying that intuition sounds like it comes before the fact, and this sounds like it's coming simultaneously. Intuition is simultaneous, because intuition is knowing, knowledge, or if that's the right word, without the intermediary of thinking, the thought process. We tend to often think of the thought process as knowing. And so the more we depend on the thought process, the less we know intuitively. So that's why it says, you know, at the end, be like a fool or an idiot. An idiot, you know, it's beyond the thought process. Not that the thought process is wrong, but thinking comes after intuition.

[16:54]

In other words, the intuition is the reality and then the thought process processes the reality and makes it intelligible intellectually. So that's why we say that the hara is first and the brain is second. I mean if you want to think in those terms. That's why it's so important in your hara. Brain studies, recent brain studies are really interesting because it turns out that we actually act or like the impulses in our brain are moving before we have what we would consider the conscious intention that triggered the movement. We're already on our way and then our brain makes up the reason that we're doing it afterwards. Verifications.

[17:56]

Yeah. Yeah. OK. So let's turn the page. It's the next page. Thirty five. Then he says, communing with the source, communing with the process. One, it includes integration, includes. Well, this is clear. He's at the top. And Gil, in my translation, it says FW. We said, intimate with the essence and intimate with the path, one embraces the territory and embraces the road. So what I glean from this is that you make the practice your own. I also have this remark, to penetrate the source is what Sakita calls absolute Samadhi.

[19:11]

He talks about Samadhi in two ways. If you read his book called Zen Training, he talks about absolute Samadhi and positive Samadhi. Absolute Samadhi is like when you're sitting Zazen. positive Samadhi is when you're cutting carrots or sawing wood or the Samadhi of your activity. We've talked about this before, the activity of stillness and the stillness within activities, absolute Samadhi and positive Samadhi. the dark and the positive somebody is the realm of the light. So there are many translations here that all say pretty much the same thing.

[20:19]

Penetrate the source and penetrating the paths Here is a short path, there is a long path. So, Cleary says in his note, fundamentally the real is pure and does not contain a single mote of dust, but it is inclusive of all dust or phenomena. For this reason, when teaching this dharma, both the real and the seeming should be brought out to show that host and guest are intermutable either by means of Chan's direct pointing or by means of the expedient words of the teaching school. Do you have any question about this? Intermutable means interchangeable or interlocking, interactable. Yes.

[21:29]

Let me get back to that. Okay. Oh, Kenneth Roshi. What did she say? She puts everything in little different terms. I find that her translations are kind of interesting because they talk about the trainee and the teacher. She uses those terms. So, trainees embrace the ultimate and masters contain the means. I don't understand that. I kind of get what she's saying.

[22:30]

Well, she was But that's kind of a particular way of saying something, but I don't think it's universal somehow. It misses something. It sounds to me like the practitioner has the potential and the teacher brings it out. Well that's right, that's what she's saying. So it's a little more personal feeling. The other's a little more... Yeah, it goes on to the next page.

[23:42]

It also says underneath the actual Chinese characters that the drummer and the singing is a metaphor that was often used in the song for a teacher and a student working together. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. when teaching this Dharma, both the real and the seeming, should be brought up to show that host and guest are interchangeable, isn't that when we talk about the self, we talk about the ego, we take them very seriously, right? They're just the seeming. And what? We talk about self, food and nature, we take them seriously, and also know that they're seeming as well, right? You know what I mean? Seeming? They are seeming, right? Well, that's a funny kind of term. Seeming. Substantial. Yeah. Yeah. You can't neglect it.

[24:45]

That's right. So it's like, if you say there's no self, that's right, but it's also not right. If you say there is a self, that's not right, but it's also right. So there is a self, but the self is not a self. So that's a great koan of our life, the self that's not a self, and the not-self that is a self. So it's easy to get one-sided and say, oh there's no self, but then what is it that's sitting here? So it's true that what is sitting here is myself, but myself is not a substantial self. I mean, it doesn't exist by itself. So I'm having trouble understanding what these poetic images have to do with these comments.

[25:46]

Like, what's the source, and what's the path, and what's the territory, and what's the road? We've got these translations and these commentaries and I don't see... They're just different ways of saying the same thing. They're all different ways of saying the same thing. It's like looking at a multi-faceted jewel. And you look at this side and you say, no, it looks like this. And then you look at it from this side and say, oh, it looks like that. And so you keep looking at it from all these sides, but you don't say what it is. As soon as you say what it is, the game's over. Because you can't. It's like looking inside of a volcano, you know, and there's all just smoke there, but you go around the edge and you say, oh, it looks like, you know, that cloud looks like an elephant. So what's it that I'm talking about? They're talking about it.

[26:47]

It and it's both in two aspects. Okay, and what's the pathway? Pathways is like the Tao. The territory? Same thing. Yeah, it's like the path and the territory and the road are just three different aspects of the Tao. Path, territory, road. Road and path are the same. There's the road and then there's the path. There's a saying, one is on the path but not yet in the ruts. In the rut. On the path but not in the rail. You can be on the path but not There's a path that's broad, but then there's a path that's narrow.

[27:54]

And one can be on a broad path, but not necessarily on a narrow path. In the groove. In the groove, that's it. Yeah, that's exactly right. Be on the path, but not in the groove. Thank you. That's what I meant to say. Well, if you're in the groove, you know you're on the broad path. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The dark is the absolute. The spiritual source shines here. In other words, the spiritual source shines clearly in the phenomenal, but you don't see it as the source because you see it as the phenomenal.

[29:33]

So when we see each other we say, oh there's Jack and Jill, but actually we Buddha nature. So we see each other in a dual way, we see each other as Jack and Jill, but we should also be able to see each other as Buddha, Buddha nature, which is the source of So when we see each other as Buddha, then we relate to each other in a little different way. I'm going to turn the page. Thank you. So merging is auspicious, do not violate it.

[30:48]

That's what he said. Well, I'm going to just stick to this book. Merging is auspicious, do not violate it. Merging auspicious. Devotion to it will earn blessings. On no account should it be offended. Oh yeah, here's where we get a bunch of different meanings for this word offended. Offended, stubborn, opposed, one-sided clinging, no contradiction. To be wrong is auspicious. And another one says, merging is auspicious. So you can see how this translation is open to lots of interpretation.

[31:51]

To be wrong is auspicious and merging is auspicious. Acting with circumspection is auspicious. Respecting this is fortunate. to be wrong is auspicious and we translated this as mistakes are auspicious as it cannot be offended well my take on it is one possibility is as long as you are sincere and you're bumbling will not be considered outside of practice. You know, we say about the precepts, breaking the precepts, but we don't break the precepts when we do something wrong. It's called staining the precepts. Breaking the precepts is when you say, I don't care about precepts.

[32:59]

They don't mean anything to me and I'll just do what I want. That's breaking the precepts. But just making a mistake is called staining the precepts, because you still have respect for the precepts, you're still within the embrace of the precepts, but you just can't maintain your perfection, your idea of perfection within the precepts. So we appreciate mistakes, actually. because when we appreciate mistakes we realize that Buddha is making mistakes and mistakes are part of our process of creating a practice. It's impossible to practice.

[34:05]

So, I think that this is somewhere in this realm that, yeah. Can you think more about sincere? What do you mean by sincere? Well, sincere means that you're doing your best. Sincere means you're doing, you're being honest and doing your best. So as long as you're honest and doing your best then your practice is in the realm of enlightenment. Enlightenment is not necessarily an end result. It's within the process of practice. Within the process of practice where enlightenment is. Sometimes people say, I got this wonderful feeling, you know, and I must be enlightened now. It's just off the mark. I don't say it's not true, but it's just off the mark.

[35:12]

It's not what practice is about. It's not what enlightenment is about. Enlightenment is about making your very best effort within practice. Otherwise enlightenment looks like some big prize at the end of the road. And there's no end to practice. Enlightenment is allowing light to come forth. And sometimes it's called darkness, sometimes it's called light. So if we can learn from our mistakes, then there's no offense. They can't be offended. So our mistakes are very valuable.

[36:18]

We don't, you know, when people make mistakes, we should be careful not to get angry. Or if we do get angry, it's skillful means. If someone makes a mistake and we are attached to our anger then that's another mistake. Matter of fact, the sixth ancestor has this wonderful poem that we should be careful about fault finding. We should not fall into fault finding because as soon as we fall into fault finding then we are at fault ourselves. We just create another fault. So he has this wonderful koan of how do you maintain practice when you see faults in others and yourself without falling into fault finding. Well do you have some advice about that?

[37:22]

Can you give us some advice about how to practice with that? I mean so you see faults and you know that person's wrong or oh I'm wrong again, then what? There's nothing behind it. Oh yeah, I see, that person made a mistake. Or this person's always making this mistake. So, we have standards, right? And when we don't come up to these standards, uphold these standards, then we say, well, you know, find fault. But that's because we're attached to standards. There seems to be a strong area of judgment, too, whether it's skillful means or just plain language. I'm just curious about whether or not I should try and discern whether or not somebody's using skillful means or just plain language.

[38:25]

How do we help somebody? That should be the first thing that comes to mind. When somebody makes a mistake, how can we help that person rather than feeling offended? It says here, on no account should it be offended. It cannot be offended. It cannot be offended. So, We should try to understand why something happens instead of simply reacting. There's the difference between reacting and responding. Reacting is when emotion comes up, a feeling comes up, a thought comes up about somebody. Do you have that slip of paper I gave you? Knowing that this question would come up, I gave my Zisha the answer.

[39:37]

When you let go of your old perceptions, you give people a chance to change. When you do not let go, you are participating in the continuation of their faults. So we create the situation, we create everything. Everything is totally self-created. I'll read it again. When you let go of your old perceptions about someone, so-and-so is just like, I know what you're like, I know what you're going to do when I do this. When you let go of your old perceptions you give people a chance to change. In other words, even though you know that so-and-so will always act in a certain way, you don't necessarily attach to that idea. In other words, you don't have an assumption.

[40:42]

So a mind that is free of assumptions is a free mind. When something comes up, it'll happen the same way, but you allow the opportunity for it to happen in a different way. So you're not assuming that something will always be the same. Your body? Well, the body is trained. to have certain responses, that's very true. And you can also teach the body to let go. So when you don't let go you're participating in the continuation of their faults. So we reinforce the faults that we

[41:47]

not letting go. So this is called reacting. Reacting is when this moves and you move with it. That's the bodily reaction, so to speak. You do this and then because you're trained you do that. But when you respond, responding means not reacting, but the feeling of reaction comes up You take the backwards step that shines the light inwards and then you see well what can I do about this that's helpful not simply reactive and what can I do that puts me in my place without drawing me off of my place because reaction draws us off of our spot and then we become attached to the thing that we're reacting to. say you're driving in a car with someone and their driving is poor and your body has reaction to that that kind of lets them know that their driving is poor or someone's food is poor you know you kind of make a face isn't that kind of a kind of reaction helps people know that their way of being is offsetting the others or yeah but you can do that through you can do that through proper response that's called skill

[43:18]

thing like, you know, if you've got a cat and you kind of get a little too grasping, the cat gets up and goes, it doesn't sit around and think about it, and we have that kind of innate ability too, you know, you touch me wrong, I kind of back away, I'm not going to sit and think about it, what's the best way to do this? You're not allowing the ego to dominate, or you're not attaching to the situation, without thinking, from deep place. Which, you know, Aikido is, the art of Aikido is not to be aggressive, but to help the person who is attacking you, to save the person that's attacking you, actually, not to harm that person. So that's practice. How do you save the situation?

[44:25]

It seems to me that it takes a long time. It's not something that even just happens. It just happens. Developing skillful means takes a long and hard practice, so you make a lot of mistakes. Well, sure. But as long as you're have a sincere effort, what does it say here? You cannot be offended. You know, the main thing is that you have compassion. If you have compassion, then you're coming from a different place than just reacting. I know for me, what Bram was talking about, that sincere effort, for me that's where no gaining idea really becomes important.

[45:33]

Because often I'll be trying to do the right thing, but it's so you'll like me. So you'll recognize me and approve of me. And then when I make mistakes, it's not so easy that I can go because my effort really isn't sincere. It's kind of self-serving. So for me, part of real sincere effort is, it's nice that you'll like me and approve of me. I think that's right. So when our effort is simply just an effort to do what we're doing, we don't get so involved emotionally in the being attached to wanting to please and then failing at that. It's very important, everything we've been saying about approaching someone else who makes a mistake is very important about ourselves.

[46:36]

Absolutely. If you pigeonhole yourself, and someone who always makes this mistake, then you're stuck. Then you're going to do it all the time. Yes, so it's important, you know, two things. One is to forgive yourself. But the other side is not to be complacent. So it's like Dogen says, when you fall to the ground, you use the ground to help you get up. That's very profound. You stumble to the ground and you get all the way down and then you use that firm place of being down to get up. But, if you just keep falling to the ground in order to get up and saying, look how good I am at doing this, then that's not so good, right?

[47:37]

That's complacency. So, to be able to forgive ourselves, but at the same time to work, to make some effort to help ourself. But, you know, there's always the problem that will never go away. Each one of us has the problem that will never go away. And so we just have to accept that. The hindrance The tendency to self-condemnation? Yes, the tendency to self-condemnation is not good. Not good. That's why I say, you know, forgive yourself first, and then work on... and turn, you know, make the effort to keep turning.

[48:45]

It's like in Zazen, your mind is continually being distracted. I can never have a moment of clarity in Zazen. You know, the big complaint. My mind is always, and then we, bam, bam, you know, my damn mind, you know. Forget it, you know. We just keep coming back. So, you forgive yourself. You don't even have to do that. You know, just say, oh yeah, more thoughts. And then you come back to your posture and breathing. And then, oh yeah, more thoughts. Then you let go and come back to your posture and breathing. There's no such thing as judgment. Absolutely no judgment. As soon as you start judging, then you're out of tune. You're out of sync. The judging mind does not belong there. Oh, my mind is always working, clouding my clarity. That's all. Judging mind. I mean, thoughts will always keep appearing in the mind, because that's the function of the mind, to produce thoughts.

[49:52]

And we sit zazen with all those thoughts. We don't try to eliminate the thoughts. You can find moments when the thoughts are not there, but that's not clarity. That's just clarity in contrast to thoughts. The real clarity is think not thinking. The real clarity is whether there's thoughts or no thoughts. the mind is clear. Simply, when you become attached to them, and when you start discriminating, then the mind is not clear. So, to stop discriminating, to stop finding fault, to stop judging, and simply, over and over, come back. So when I say forgive yourself, it means let go of the judgment and just turn and go in the right direction.

[50:57]

This is what the Sixth Ancestor says is repentance. That's more serious. But repentance means to acknowledge what you've done and turn around and go in the right direction. And we do that in Zazen a million times. In one Zazen period you do it maybe 200 times. So, I can forgive myself for the things that I've done wrong or for the sins that I've committed. But what about when I believe somebody else has committed one against me? Do I still forgive myself for believing that? No. You see, this person did this and I felt this. You, um, you know, someone did something and I felt this. Who do I forget? Well, I don't know. It just depends on the situation. You want a formula.

[52:01]

There are no formulas, you know. This is the finger pointing at the moon. You want the finger to be the moon. We always want some answer that will solve everything. I'm just talking about it. This is like, you have to... It's pointing in a direction, right? No answer works all the time. Every situation calls for its own response. But what we're talking about is an underlying attitude. toward things. Sometimes you get angry and you get, you know, pulled off your place. Sometimes someone insults you and you want to hit him, you know, but you don't hit him.

[53:05]

What do you do? Kick him. Kick him. Depends on the situation. Depends on, you know, but the attitude of Letting go means that you can free yourself from your bondage to your reactions. Forgiveness means, among other things, it means to let go of your bondage to the person that you're forgiving, so that you have freedom. It's kind of selfish. We think that when we forgive somebody that we're absolving them. And that's true. But what it does is it frees us from having to deal with this thing.

[54:07]

From our own bondage to this whatever it is that you're forgiving the person for doing. So people go for, you know, all their life being angry at somebody. and never forgiving them and so they're handcuffed to this person and it influences your whole life so cut the cord and then you're free and so what if they're free? if you When you let go of your old perceptions, you give people a chance to change. That's called forgiveness. Sometimes you have to cut that cord over and over again. Sometimes. Sometimes, yeah. But then maybe it's not really cut, it's just stretched. Well, this is what happens.

[55:10]

This is what happens when you fall in love, and the other person goes away, and you say, You're pining and mourning, and the thread gets real thin, but it's still there. And so you can't do anything until it's cut. You can't relive your life until that thread is cut. And it's so hard to cut that thread, because you don't want to do that. But you have to do it. You have to go, in order for them to be free and you to be free. I'm thinking of something that goes all the way back to childhood, that you've held on to for so long, and you might one day think, OK, I'm finally forgiven. And then the next period of Zazen, you might find out, oh, maybe I wasn't. Although my effort was sincere, maybe it wasn't everything that had to happen to really undo that karmic tendency. Yeah. Well, sometimes you have to work at, until you get to the point where you can actually... So we have these stages, maybe, of forgiveness.

[56:16]

So fault finding is based on standards. I feel like I can understand that fault finding is based on standards, but I wonder then how to relate to standards. It seems like to throw them away entirely, maybe you would lose something. Well, let's look at, you know, like Dogen. Dogen says, you know, he has these very high standards for monks, you know. But you know that all the monks will never reach those standards. And Dogen talks about, you know, in China, the dogs and the, you know, monks acting like dogs and all this, you know, and worms and frogs and stuff. But at the same time, one has to realize that although there are standards, everybody is where they are. So you have to appreciate everyone's effort for where they are.

[57:26]

No one can ever reach the standard. The koan of precepts is that precepts are a high standard. No one can fulfill the precepts. If they could, then the precepts would have to have a higher standard. because it's out of reach. And so standards draw you out, you know. The highest standards, they keep raising the bar, you know. And raising the bar draws out your energy, draws out your effort, draws out your impetus. But it doesn't mean that you should reach the standard. It should always be above your head. That's why we put this robe on top of our head when we do the robe chant. We don't sit on it and say, I... We put it up here, because there's something higher than our ability.

[58:35]

Vicky told a story about when she was your shusto, about folding her zhagu in the morning, and every day you would if there's some correction about folding her zagu. Oh, that's right. Was that related to that? Well, she used to get mad at me. Because a lot of Zen center priests don't know how to fold their zagu. Fold their zagu. So I was showing her what I learned about folding my zagu. And she was attached to the Zen Center priest's way of holding the Zagat. And she wouldn't listen to me. I said, no, do it this way, you know. And then every day, you know, OK. Finally, she did. She gave in. But it was hard. When we learn something a certain way, and then you come back in, you know. Like, I learned things from Suzuki Roshi, from all my Japanese teachers, five Japanese teachers.

[59:43]

And to me, that was the right way to do things. And as Zen centers lost their Japanese teachers, the way of doing things has been modified over time. So people say, oh, you're doing that wrong. You're doing things wrong. And then they find out, well, I'm not really doing them wrong. I'm just doing them the way I learned from my Japanese teachers. And then sometimes they'll change. Or sometimes, you know, Sometimes I get angry, you know. You're doing things wrong, guys. But then I say, okay, I'll just do them wrong too. And then they'll be right. Two wrongs, my mother said two wrongs make a right. No, she said two wrongs don't make a right. But sometimes they do. I guess one of the questions that came up to me about that story was your relationship over those 90 days.

[60:46]

Like, you're holding to a standard. How did you maintain, like, a fresh mind and not get angry? How did she? Not that it didn't happen. I just realized that she would come around. That wasn't the hardest thing that she had during that practice period. That was a minor thing. The hardest thing she had during that practice period is just before Sashin, her husband left her. That's where she had to exercise her patience. And she did a marvelous job. But I also know that in terms of you maintaining depression for a while at the same time, trying to teach her something. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, when I see impatience coming up, she says, how to maintain a fresh mind in that situation, right? When you're repeating a teaching every 90 days.

[61:47]

Yes. You know, impatience comes up. That's what comes up, impatience. Why can't you learn this? Why, you know, you're so clumsy, you know, blah, blah, blah. You just, to let go of that, and just go through the, just, you know, like you're teaching a baby, you know, just do it this way, you know, and every day, just do it this way, and just keep repeating the same thing without emotion. And then, you know, temperaments are different. You know, we all have different temperaments. We all have different temperaments. So we have to work within the temperament that we have. Some people are impatient, some people are patient, some people are angry quickly, you know, some people, you know, within, and within whatever it is that is our temperament, we have to be able to be patient.

[62:57]

So patience is really important. Patience. most important thing is to have patience. When you're teaching, to have patience is the most important thing. You just have to cultivate patience, not let anger take over, or impatience take over, because a person can't learn something when you're impatient. It's interesting, you know, if you teach a dog, the dog senses every every subtle emotion, you know? And when you're patient, they respond. When you're impatient, they sense that, you know, and they get scared or whatever. And people are the same, you know? And when you get scared, you can't learn anything. Your mind starts blanking out. So, when you see that you're not making progress,

[64:00]

You just have to slow down and be patient and treat people calm, give people a calm mind so that they can learn something. I tend to sometimes be very impatient when I'm teaching, but I try. We're way over time, huh? Somewhat over time. Okay. So, mistakes are auspicious. And it can't be offended if we are patient, if we are sincere. If we're really sincere, the universe will forgive us and help us because we're just connected to it. That's kind of what I mean by when you walk out in the street and things seem to go your way,

[65:02]

Because we're connected to the universe. And when we act in accord with the Tao, everything works together with us. What do you mean by in accord with the Tao? Oh, it's called good luck. Didn't you know that? Didn't you ever see that musical? Everything's going my way. Oklahoma. No. As I said, it's not a formula. I'm not talking about a formula. I'm talking about an attitude. Yeah, but then it sounds like, you know, oh, if I have this attitude, like... No, I don't say that if I have this attitude. I just have the attitude. And then we'll see what happens. So, like, you know... Every day is a good day. Every day is a good day. Yeah.

[66:05]

Do you know what Master Rinzai said? He said, I control the world. Because everything that happens is happening just exactly the way I want it to. Is this a translation? Is it a misprint? Probably. It says here, as is cannot be offended. As if cannot be offended. Yeah. There are typos there. It's not, you know, a goody-goody kind of thing. It's like reality. I guess it's something of like kind of, I think I react when I think that I hear, like, you know, low or something being created.

[67:15]

When I think that I hear, like, that you know, like the feeling of being in tune or something is the same as really being in tune, you know? Like, you know what I'm saying? Well, being in tune is being in tune. Yeah, I'm okay. Okay. I think I kind of know what you're trying to say, where maybe there's a point of being in tune and then there's a point, a fine line between that Delusion now. Thinking you're in pain. Uh-huh. Thinking it will respond to you, but it's sort of like... Yeah. ...lucky that it's coming at you, but, you know, what... Well, you know, it's... I'm not talking about an expectation. I'm not talking about... I expect that this is going to happen. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about not expecting anything. Actually, not expecting anything. No expectation.

[68:18]

Not expecting anything and thinking... We're not expecting anything, and then everything happens the way it happens. It happens the way it happens, and then things are responding to you? Yeah. Is that being a tuner the illusion that things are responding to me, myself, and I? Or is it one person? Right. Well, you know, we tend to think that we don't have an effect on the world. We tend to think that we don't have an effect on the world. But we do. It's conforming to my... But if there's no expectation, how can it be different? When we talk about myself and I, We're talking about our expectation and our idea about who we are.

[69:28]

But there's also, you know, we're not always aware of the effect that we have on things. We're just not aware, you know, and we think, well, I don't, you know, things happen around me and I respond to things. I respond to what's happening around me. But we also condition what happens. I'm not saying that every day, you know, we have this thing. I'm saying that sometimes we're very aware of How did that work that way? We influence our surroundings.

[70:33]

And we're influenced by our surroundings. Well, I don't know. Maybe. But, you know, also, because of the way we go, we keep going in that way. Right? We all each have a direction. It's called our destiny. Right? Well, yeah. I don't mean our fate. I mean our destiny. Fate is something that's preordained. Destiny is because of this, there's this.

[71:35]

And because of this, this happens. And because this happens, that happens. And so you say, well, I can connect the dots. Right? And you can see how things are going to go because of the way they've been going. And then you can see down the path. And you can see how you intuit that this is going to happen and that's going to happen because of the way these things have been happening. It's nothing mysterious. Simply, you see how things fall into place. It's not that everything happened. It's not that you know exactly what's going to happen all the time. That's not what I mean. Is it more about faith or trust?

[72:37]

Is it more about faith or trust than clearly seeing exactly what will happen? Or knowing that all our time could have been wasted on this path and have faith that it will carry on? Well, you have faith that it's the right path. It reminds me of a line from a Grateful Dead song, because I can tell your future by just looking what's in your hand. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Maybe not absolutely, but... But that's so. Because what you do this moment determines what will happen the next moment. According to Buddhadharma, we are self-creating beings. There's nobody behind us creating us. We create our own destiny.

[73:40]

And that's called karma, or the fruit of karma. Our acts, our volitional acts, are the karmic acts. And then the result of karma, when it meets conditions, creates our life. So we are who we are now because of what we've done in the past. And we tend to blame others sometimes. But how we say, well my parents were mean to me and so I'm this way. No, you're this way because of the way you responded to the way your parents treated you. And you can change. You do not have to be tied into that. Because your parents didn't do anything other than be themselves. And you were yourself. Not that they didn't influence what you did. That's big influence. But what you did belongs to you.

[74:45]

And you can change your way of responding. And the best way to do that is to forgive your parents for what you think they did to you. And then you're free, unless you want to be bound, which is a very safe place to be. Options. A very safe place to be is bound. It's very hard. The hardest place to be is to be free. Why? Well, because being free is insecurity. It's insecure. When you're tied to your anger, tied to your emotions with others, then it's very safe, even though it's painful. It seems like that would be more insecure because it would be out of line.

[75:51]

Well, you know, of course it's insecurity. That's why people feel so insecure, because it's hard to be free. Sometimes, you know, Suzuki Roshi used to say, be careful, you know, if you want, you want to get enlightened, but be careful, because when you get enlightened, you may not like it. I think that's the most profound statement I ever heard. Sometimes I find it kind of, you know, when I read this emerging investigation, it's big, it reminds me of sometimes when I'm practicing a situation in science, the media observer as well as the person involved, or if I think of myself outside the situation, Well, yes, to be a little objective.

[76:56]

I had a similar reaction as Mary, and I think what I would want to say is that just because you're feeling bad and heavy and obstructive doesn't mean that you're not practicing. No, of course. As long as you're practicing, you're practicing. Of course, it's just heavy, obsessive practice. Absolutely, yeah. Absolutely. Heavy, obsessive Buddha. Could you repeat what he said? Oh, he said, be careful about your desire for enlightenment, because when you get it, you may not like it. Oh, there is I. I control the world because everything happens exactly the way I want it to.

[77:59]

That's a hard one to swallow.

[78:05]

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