So again, good evening to you all. Welcome to a class, two-session class that I'm offering on the record of Liang Che of Dengshan. Liang Che was his given name, and Zen teachers are named after the mountains they reside on. So he resided on Mount Teng, Tengshan, Shan is mountain. So Tengshan Lianzhi, which translates as Cave Mountain Virtuous Servant, lived between 807 and 869 AD in Tang China. He was a founder of the Soto School along with his disciple Celshan Henshi. It's important to know that the teachers back then did not intent on founding schools.

[01:02]

The five schools of Zen were actually named many, many years later by those who wanted to propagate Zen in China and giving some kind of order or credibility to these schools. Just like a group of people get together to have a study group and then it forms a college and then a university. It's some kind of thing about the levels of acknowledgement in society that gives credibility. or authenticity to a teaching. So in contrast to the Rinzai and young men's brusque physical expression in practice that we read about with slaps and pushes and shouts and whatnot, Tozan style was soft and poetic. Sojin often talks about farmer Zen versus aristocratic Zen, that a farmer tends their crops in a particular kind of earthy gentle way, whereas a sergeant or soldier kind of marches their troops back and forth.

[02:12]

So you have this sort of militaristic kind of regimented way versus kind of sowing seeds and reaping those seeds at harvest time. So those are kind of some sort of stereotypical ways of describing the two major differences of farmer and soldier or aristocratic Zen. So the lineage of Tozan goes through his student, Yunchu, but it was named after the Soto. So To of Soto is Tozan and the So is Cao Shan. And Tsao Shan received the Jewel Mirror Samadhi, which contains a teaching of the five positions that I'll be talking about next week. Dogen quoted stories about Tozan 20 out of 95 times in, I'm sorry, Dogen quoted out of 95 fascicles 20 times of Tozan's practice and stories in his Shobo Genzo.

[03:25]

Like Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind, the record, thank you, Juliana, look at the record of Tozan, makes little mention of actual meditation technique. There's only one enlightenment story, which is his own, and four stories contributing to others' enlightenment out of 120 stories. And rather than peak experiences, enlightenment experiences, what's conveyed more is sort of the pure everyday life of practice. So, uh, it feels very consistent with the way Berkeley Zen Center and Sojo Roshi has laid out, uh, uh, practice for us here on, uh, at Berkeley Zen Center. Um, the order or the way that the, um, tonight's will go is what my intention is. is that I'll recite the number of the story that I would like to talk about.

[04:35]

And if you have your reading material, you can read along with me. I'll read the story, and I'll give a synopsis of a few words of what the story is portraying in practice. And then I'll offer commentary on each story. And after that, I'll offer an opportunity for questions and responses. So the questions I'm imagining would be just a few questions to clarify points that come up for you while I'm reading. I'm not sure if we'll get through all of the stories. I'd like to, just to kind of give you a really great wide picture of his teaching. and I put my email address in the chat box. So if you'd like, you can write me after our class this evening if questions come up and we can have an email dialogue around the question.

[05:43]

Any questions at the moment? Rihanna? Hey, Ross, when you give us the story number that you're going to do, could you also say the page number? Because I don't know that I can reference it this fast without it. Well, do you have the book? No, I have the PDF you sent us. Right. There is no page number on that PDF. Oh, okay. Okay. Thanks. Okay. Excuse me. Hey, Ross. I printed out the PDF and the page number indeed is what's prominent rather than the titles of stories. The PDF that I had was, uh, were numbers. They weren't page numbers. It was a number of the case. Well, I'll do my best. Okay. Thank you. Uh, let's see. Actually, if you think about in the Zen Do, when someone gives a talk, they don't tell you the page number, they're just reading.

[06:56]

It'll be kind of like that. Anyway, the first case, or first story, and my synopsis is, there are no stupid questions. The master whose personal name was Liang Che was a member of the Yu family of Kuishan, Once as a child, when reading the Heart Sutra with his tutor, he came to the line, There is no eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind. He immediately felt his face with his hand, then said to his tutor, I have eyes, ears, a nose, a tongue, and so on. Why does the sutra say they don't exist? This took the tutor by surprise, and recognizing Tungshan's uniqueness, He said, I am not capable of being your teacher. From there, the master went to Wun Tse Mountain, where after making obeisance to Chan Master Mo, he took the robe and shaved his head.

[08:01]

When he was 21, he went to Sung Mountain and took the complete precepts. And the teacher that he took them from was actually a Rinzai teacher. So for me, when I read this story, it just felt like here's this kid and he feels something or he knows something that's different than what's being taught. So how often do we have a question about something that a teacher or a friend is asking, but we may be afraid to question it or ask about it because we don't want to appear stupid. And some years ago, I remember Sojo Roshi saying, there are no dumb questions. We're all at a place of understanding, and if we don't quite get something, it's okay to ask. Oftentimes, people will ask a question that might be actually our question, or somebody explaining or commenting on a story will actually reveal the answer to the question that we had that we may have been afraid to ask.

[09:15]

But ultimately, we have to find out for ourselves are going to understand buddhadharma by getting questions answered as such. They'll point us in the right direction, hopefully to encourage us to practice, but ultimately for us to have realization we have to find out for ourselves. Any questions? Ellen, please unmute yourself. You had to unmute yourself. Yeah, I did. Okay, sorry. So I want to tell a little story, a very short one. Okay. So I once asked, I said, I don't understand no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind. And he said, yes, you do. Yeah. We talked about that in my Dogen study group just last week.

[10:18]

that there's faith that you know it. You just don't, it hasn't been revealed yet that you can talk about it. Yeah. You're still working on that? No, I'm not. Oh good. Okay. Anybody else? Ron? Unmute yourself. I've always found that story irritating. Why make such a big deal about it? That's so obvious. A kid could say that. You know, why do they make that sound so profound? I just, sorry for not going on. You don't have to apologize, Ron. You don't have to apologize. I think it's, I believe the story was laid out as the first story to note that that Tozan didn't just take what the teacher said for granted.

[11:23]

Kind of like you. I mean, you're a little bit of a contrarian and will actually raise similar questions I've experienced over the years. I think also there's a, he's actually questioning the nihilistic view of no, no, no. But I do have an eye. So one could say that the teacher actually didn't have a full understanding of the other side. It was all about the realistic or no side of things and negation. And Tozan said, but wait a minute, I do have, which is a positive side. Now, whether he actually realized that as a young boy, I don't know, but that's what I get out of it. It's a balance between the no and yes. There's a hand up. Dean, yes. So I'm kind of curious and hearing that and then hearing what Ron said, before I heard Ron, I was sitting there thinking, well, why was that a surprise?

[12:29]

And then I thought, well, why is there so much about stating the obvious or seeing the obvious or something that's so simple that it seems like what Ron said, there's some you know, something special about that. And it seems like so much of this practice can be really simple. And it's like, yeah, what do you mean no nose, no tongue? I got a nose, I got a tongue. So sometimes isn't the path to understanding sort of letting something be simple? Actually, the path of understanding is the simplest thing, but we tend to complicate it and put layers of meaning that may or may not actually help us, but our minds work around complexity. And my own experience has been some of the greatest realizations have been just the simplest ones and just accepting what's in front of me.

[13:36]

versus building up a story and keep me from actually meeting it. Yeah. So it seems like we, but when someone does state something so simple, it's sort of like, it's almost like sometimes it seems like, like what Ron said, it's like, why is that so? Oh, isn't that great? I mean, that's what I heard from Ron, is that what's the big deal? He just stated something pretty simple that gave clarity. Well, I'd like to propose that people think back when they first heard, no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, et cetera. Sorry. He won't be quiet. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you for asking your questions. Uh, number four, uh, this is a, uh, a real big turning here.

[14:43]

This is the, this is the teaching of the non-sentient. Deng Xia's accordingly took leave of Kueishan and proceeded directly to Yanyan's. Making reference to his previous encounter with Kueishan, he immediately asked what sort of person was he was able to hear the Dharma expounded by non-sentient beings. Yun-Yun said, non-sentient beings are able to hear it. Can you hear it, Ho-Shang? asked Tung-Shan. Yun-Yun replied, If I could hear it, then you would not be able to hear the Dharma that I teach. Why can't I hear it? asked Tung-Shan. Yun-Yun raised his fly-whisk and said, Can you hear it yet? Tung-Shan replied, No, I can't. Yun-Yun said, You can't even hear when I expound the Dharma. How do you expect to hear when a non-sentient being expounds the Dharma? Dong-Shan asked, In which sutra is it taught that non-sentient beings expound the Dharma?

[15:48]

Yun-Yun replied, Haven't you seen it? In the Amitabha Sutra it is said, Water birds, tree groves, all without exception, recite the Buddha's name, recite the Dharma. Reflecting on this, Tungshan composed the following gatha. How amazing, how amazing! Hard to comprehend that non-sentient beings expound the Dharma. It simply cannot be heard with the ear, but when sound is heard with the eye, then it is understood. So we've gone from something simple and obvious to something maybe not so simple and not so obvious. So typically things that are considered sentient are animals that have senses, the five skandhas or five senses that take in the world and then there's an experience of being alive.

[16:55]

So a so-called non-sentient thing, rocks, pebbles, tiles, tables, books and such, because they don't have senses, they don't they aren't alive in the so-called traditional sense of sentient, the sentience of life. So for me, when I look at non-sentience, I look at non-sentient beings, I look at and feel, what is my relationship to the things that comprise this world that I live in? And one very simple practice that brings non-sentience to sentience is how we comport ourselves in the zendo. So in the zendo, we have zabutons and zafus.

[17:57]

We sit on a round cushion, and the zabuton is a rectangular cushion on the floor. And Sojin says, don't kick the zabuton around with your foot to position it. Bend down and move it with your hands. Now, strictly speaking, because the Zabuton does not have sense or is sentient, you can kick it around and it's not going to care, right? So what's the value of that teaching? To not kick an insentient being around, in this case, the Zabuton. Well, for me, what it does is it brings my so-called sentient world to the non-sentient world of the Zabatan. We typically divide things. There's me and other, self and other. If I can practice in such a way that there is a respect and reverence for things that are so-called non-sentient, then the non-sentient, which makes my life sentient, even more rich because I'm seeing it and experiencing it with my whole body and mind.

[19:09]

If we look at something, oh, that's just a cushion. I can kick it with my foot. That's one way of relating to it. If we actually experience the Zabuton, seeing it with our ears, seeing it with our fingers, not just the eye and seeing it and feeling it with our whole body, then it becomes us. We, in fact, are being reflected by the Zabuton. It's no longer a subject and object. So when Yun-Yun said, if I could hear it, then you would not be able to hear the Dharma that I teach. So the I that he's referring to is a small I or ego, but with the large I or the big self or big mind, we experience a world in a very different way than the small world or small sense of self.

[20:15]

So in Zazen, As we quiet the mind and we settle and quiet the dualistic way that we look at the world, we actually start experiencing things more intimately with all five skandhas, not just the ears that hear. You actually kind of feel it in your body. I have a leaf here. on my table, just an ordinary looking leaf, I think you probably would agree. And this leaf was bright red back in 1998 when I was at Rinsowen, Suzuki Bushi's temple in Japan. So after Zazen one morning, we're sweeping the grounds there, and here's Ross is sweeping back and forth, back and forth.

[21:20]

And I stop and there's this red leaf there. And I used to think that, oh, that's a really pretty leaf. I'm going to pick it up and save it and bring it back to America. And I had this realization, not then, but in preparation for our class this evening, that the leaf took me. It wasn't me taking the leaf, but it was actually this so-called insentient being seeing me and compelling me to pick it up. So how did it do that? I don't know. I don't know how it did it, but it was the most compelling thing for this person that morning to pick that leaf up and bring it home. And all these years later, be a teaching for me to remind me that I had this idea, Hey, I'm going to take you home.

[22:23]

I'm very nostalgic. I'm going to have a little memento from my trip when in fact it was a non-sentient being validating me and my desire, my greed and my, uh, my want to take this little memento back to America. So that's how the non-sentient, um, see and validate the sentient. Any questions or thoughts? Carol, please unmute yourself. Well, this is, I'm just sharing this. It's really been very powerful teaching for me. I had to buy some lights for my pathway. And I didn't think much of them, they were really cheap, and I thought, I gotta have some. And I didn't even bother to put them up for quite a while. And then I put them up and I thought, well, maybe they'll last a week or so, you know, if I can get any time out of them, because like I said, they didn't cost much.

[23:29]

And then I put them up, and then, I don't know, a few days later, I noticed them shining. And every night after that, and they, I just, they're so real for me. You know, I talk to them. They're like little sentinels with their light, little light beams shining, you know? And yeah, I feel a real relation with them. I really, you know, the dharma is talking to us everywhere. I mean, it is present. I feel that, especially in nature. And I think as I respect those lights, you know, of course, it's not the same consciousness as we have, But who knows? Who really knows? Yeah, it's not important whether, you know, to judge who's smarter, which consciousness is higher or lower. But I think for us in our practice, that when we respect and at times revere things that seem so ordinary, they change us.

[24:33]

They change us. I think one of the things that's kind of classic for Zen practitioners is the care and attention to the mundane and the mundane becomes the super mundane. And, um, um, the ordinary becomes extraordinary. And as we quiet our minds and have relationships with these ordinary things, they, um, um, they inform us and they, they, they lift us up. You know, the, um, one of the forms of the Zen Do is that after, um, Zazen, we fluff up our cushion and center it. And we don't fluff it up by pushing, punching it with our fists. We use an open hand and we roll the Zafu and fluff it up and put it back like we found it. You leave things the way you found them. Now the cushion doesn't care how you leave it. It's very forgiving.

[25:35]

But it's about us and our waking up. And by fluffing up the cushion and placing it in the center, the next person that comes sees, hey, this is ready for me. This was well-maintained and tended to. And now I'm gonna sit on it, and I'll leave it that way for the next person. On and on. You know, Suzuki Roshi has a really strong teaching. I don't remember which book it was. It's in my respect for all things. Yes. Yeah. I just wanted to make a comment that's a great one. Yeah, I'm just saying stuff that I've read in other books. Thank you for bearing with me. With a few personal stories, I'm not just a parent. The only parent here is Deansburg, somewhere there in the cage. Okay, number eight. Oh, Ross? Yeah. I just, can I mention, I was just thinking this, what I always think of when I hear this story is it feels like it's much more than a lot of Buddhist teachings.

[26:41]

It really draws close to a kind of indigenous people's way of relating to the world and not, you know, we think of objects, but also mountains and river, you know, all those things to feel that everything is alive in a way, you know. That's a good point. Yeah. And I think that's really nice. I feel like, uh, it doesn't always feel like that when you're reading, when you're reading Buddhism, but it feels very grounded in, in a real, uh, sense of the earth and the sense of the world around us as being, as being alive. I really love that story. Thank you. That's a good point, Laurie. Um, someone mentioned something about being in nature. I think that's a kind of a classic, a place where people actually experience something bigger than themselves and something very alive and that people that are in urban settings don't quite have that same experience. Or if they have them, it's kind of in small ways like looking out your doorway and seeing the tree, you know, blowing in the wind and feeling the life force there being shared with you just in a tree movement.

[27:53]

It's not quite as grand as being out in the wild. but it's still there if we look closely. I wanted to add to what Lori said because I really appreciate that you're teaching us Dongshan, especially because this teaching of insentient, insentient, not being different, this is where this started. It comes from Nanyuan, who was Yunyan's master. before Chinese Buddhism, before the eighth century, did not hold this belief. So what Lori's saying, like, I think that's a lot of reason why we don't hear it in other Buddhist teachings earlier. This is a pretty pivotal teaching. It's similar to Dogen's teaching that Buddha nature is not something we have, we are. And prior to Nanyuan, there was a belief in Buddha nature, but there was still a discrimination between sentient and non-sentient and the Tao and Confucianism support that separation, but I think Dongshan and the teachings of Soto Zen really lift this up.

[28:56]

And so it's lovely, and I'm glad we're studying it. Thank you. Thank you for that elucidation of the history there. I appreciate it. And number eight, this story or fascicle is about meeting in continuous time versus discontinuous time. So when we look at time, there is just this moment, just this, just this, just this. And it's continuous and it's timeless. There's discontinuous time where we measure time in seconds, minutes and hours and such as a way of arranging our life and going to scheduled events and such. So they're both important. we tend to rely more on discontinuous time and chopping things up. Oh, I'm in a rush. I got it. I'm late. I got to be early. Uh, when is that going to be again versus continuous time and just being present.

[29:59]

And if we remember to just be present, it doesn't matter what time it is. We'll always be in time as a, the famous story is Suzuki Roshi always being in time and not rushing around. And that doesn't mean you might walk, not, That does not mean that you would refrain necessarily from walking faster or driving a little faster if you're late for an appointment or such, because there is still relative time that we need to be aware of and be conscious of and respectful of. But in discontinuous time, that's where we reside in the non-dual world. that goes beyond good and bad, right and wrong, to be just this, just this. And that's the beauty of Zazen, especially during Sashin, where we're suspended of schedules, I mean, of having to be somewhere, and we're just here. So in the story, when Deng Xian was taking his leave, Yanyan, his teacher, asked, where are you going?

[31:10]

Dengxian replied, although I am leaving you, I still haven't decided where I'll stay. Yanyan asked, you're not going to Hunan, are you? No, replied Dengxian. You're not returning to your native town, are you? Asked Yanyan. No, replied Dengxian. When will you return? Asked Yanyan. I'll wait until you have a fixed residence, said Dengxian. Yanyan said, after your departure, it will be hard to meet again. Dongshan said, it will be hard not to meet. So I think With Sojin Roshi's life and imminent stepping down from Abyssea at some point, we don't know when, and Hosan's ascent, people are concerned about and some worry about, well, what about Sojin's teachings?

[32:30]

He won't be here as Abbot anymore. And at some point, like all of us, he'll die and he won't be here. So where will his teachings and how will we recall them? So I came across a story about Shakyamuni Buddha in Meditation in Action by Trungpa Rinpoche, I'd like to share with you, which again gets back to this timelessness. In discontinuous time, there is someone, someone's born and someone dies. But in discontinuous time, it's just the flowing of the teachings. This scripture was composed after the death of the Buddha, after the Parinirvana. In the world of gods and men, and women, everyone began to doubt whether the teachings of Buddha would remain because it seemed that now the wonderful teacher was gone and all that remained was a group of mendicant monks, and they did not seem to do very much, or they were not able to do so.

[33:32]

So one of the disciples was lamenting and saying that now the world of samsara will go on and on and on with its waves of passion, desire, hatred, and delusion. We will never have the chance to hear the Buddha's teachings and instructions. We are again plunged into darkness. So what shall we do? And as he lamented, the answers came to his mind that Buddha had never died. that his teaching is always present and that the birth and death of Buddha is merely a concept, an idea. In fact, no one is excluded and all beings, anyone who possesses consciousness, anyone who possesses mind or the unconscious mind, all are candidates for bodhisattvahood. Anyone can become an awakened person. So when Dongshan responded, I'll wait until you have a fixed residence.

[34:41]

What that's speaking to is his timelessness because we don't have a fixed residence. We're always changing and the circumstances are always changing. So it's this sort of poetic reference to, we'll meet in that place of emptiness. Not at 7.15 at Berkeley Zen Center on Zoom. We meet in emptiness. Yes, we're here. I can see images of you moving and not. And there's some sense in my mind that we're meeting here, but actually the deeper meeting, the more intimate connection is when we are just still with one another. and not worrying about time or how many pictures are on the screen, how many people are here? Are there any questions or thoughts?

[35:46]

Carol? Well, you know, when I first read it, I was interpreting that it will be hard not to meet, that those teachings are always in you. Like Sojin's teachings are in me, always. and Suzuki Roshi's teachings are in him. That's how I took it. Yes, it's hard not to meet because they are always here with us. Yeah. So this story from Trungpa Rinpoche was the person being too attached to the teacher who was dying or who died and that they had the teachings and I need to be there. But as For better or for worse, I think we all have memories and stories of growing up with our family and the things that we learned from our parents, for better or for worse, teachings that they gave us or that we observed. They weren't even trying to teach us. We just observed what to do or what not to do by their behavior.

[36:50]

So it's always with us. Yeah. Joe, does your cat have a question? No questions. Where's the food? Where's the food? Okay, number nine is the food. Here it comes. So here's the famous Enlightenment story of Dengxian Liangchi, which I had the good fortune to have as my co-author story for when I was Shusou back in 1996. So, Deng Xian has left his teacher, Yang Yan, and so he no longer will be receiving teachings from him. He's been entrusted to be a teacher, but he has not had his Great Enlightenment experience. And this reminds me of a story when Richard Baker succeeded Suzuki Roshi

[37:57]

at San Francisco Zen Center. And as Sojiroshi told the story, Suzuki Roshi asked Sojin about what he thought, or maybe Sojiroshi asked Suzuki Roshi, I forgot now who, I apologize, about what he thought about this. And Suzuki Roshi said, sometimes we transmit someone and pray. So Suzuki Bush wasn't around for many years and we've all been practicing for a period of time and we continue to ripen. So my hunch is that while it was very early in Richard Baker and all those students' lives to lose their teacher, that there's a prayer or that there's a hope that the student is going to fill the shoes of Abbessy and become the teacher there and support the practice.

[39:03]

And so that's what came to mind when Dumshad left his teacher and he was on his way, but he hadn't had his great realization that really validated his understanding of that. It's essentially why he became the head of our school. So, just before leaving, Dengxian asked, If after many years someone should ask if I am able to portray the Master's likeness, how should I respond? After remaining quiet for a while, Yunyan said, Just this person. Dengxian was lost in thought. Yunyan said, Xie, Acharya, having assumed the burden of this great matter, you must be very cautious. Dengxian remained dubious. remained quiet. I apologize. I have a lot of marks in my book and I got mixed up with my notes. Dongshan was lost in thought.

[40:07]

He remained doubtful about what Yongyan had said. Later, as he was crossing a river, he saw his reflected image and experienced a great awakening to the meaning of the previous exchange. He composed the following gata. earnestly avoid seeking without, lest it recede far from you. Today I am walking alone, yet everywhere I meet him. He is now no other than myself, but I am not now him. It must be understood in this way in order to merge with suchness." So at that time, when a student was transmitted and was mature and off to go to found their own practice place, they were allowed to draw a picture or a depiction of their teacher as a credential that the teacher was acknowledged them and gave them permission to meet them in that way as a picture.

[41:22]

So it's kind of like an ID. When Yang Yan said, just this person, this goes back to the old days of the court back in Tang China, where a person would say, just this person, just me, I am here, I take full responsibility for what I am being charged with here. So when I read that, I think about when I've been caught with a mistake by misspeaking, something that I'm not so proud of. And when I realized that the difference between making up a story and excuse versus saying, just this person, or in other words, I'm mistaken. I take full responsibility for my mistaken action or deed and being completely vulnerable because

[42:25]

If we are completely vulnerable and open, we can take full responsibility for our actions and we don't have to cover them up. Because we trust that in our humanity, with other humans, we can support each other with the mistakes that we make and celebrate the accomplishments that we also actualize. So in this story, or in this gatha that he composed, earnestly avoid seeking without lest it recede far from you. He's identifying the problem. We look outside for validation. We want answers from people. We want to go out into nature because it's more spacious than this little claustrophobic apartment. we're upset with our partner and so we start thinking about maybe we should end this relationship and find somebody else that maybe would be more compatible. Something outside of ourselves.

[43:28]

Today I am walking alone. Alone is also at one. Today I am walking at one. Last night, Joe commented actually on a point in our discussion about when you don't want anything, you have everything. It's counterintuitive. If we let go and not want anything, we think we don't have, but actually if you don't want anything, there's nothing to have, so you have everything. So today I'm walking alone, yet everywhere I meet him. So if I'm walking alone and I don't have anything, then everyone I meet is me. I'm fulfilled by everything.

[44:32]

If I'm holding on to things, I'm not meeting you. If I have ideas about who you are, I'm not meeting you. Can I let go of all of my notions of who you are and who I am and just meet you? one-to-one intimately he is now no other than myself that i am not now him so he is not he is now no other than myself his form is empty as we recite in the heart sutra he is now no other than myself he is the larger self and no other than myself, this small self, which is a reflection. It's a humble expression. Then monks will also refer to themselves as this old monk or this person.

[45:34]

They don't talk about themselves. They talk about themselves in the third person. So it's not this, I am me, I want this. It's talked about in a more subtle way, this person. So he is now no other than myself, but I am not now him. So we've gone from he is now myself, but I am not now him. Form is still form. The teacher is sometimes a student, the student is sometimes a teacher. That's where big self and small self interplay back and forth. We have to remember the teacher is still the teacher, and the student is still the student. It must be understood in this way in order to merge with suchness. This is just encouragement. When we understand things in this way, we merge with suchness. So don't objectify.

[46:41]

Any thoughts or questions? Ross, this is Dean. I actually, someone's got their mic on and there's feedback. If everybody could check besides you to make sure their mics are turned off, that would, I'd appreciate it. Thank you, Dean. Thank you. Yeah, okay. Let's see, Christian, I think you had your hand up. Yes, I was going to wait towards the end of the class to ask this. Kind of taking a step back. What do you see between Tongshan and Rujing, Dogen's teacher? What has changed? What has evolved or have been omitted from Tongshan to Rujing slash Dogen? Mr. Blum. Well, we think of Rujing, we think of Dogen. his disciple, first thing that comes to mind is that Dogen Zenji wrote a lot more.

[47:52]

A lot more stories, but the teaching is still there, just a different expression. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Blum. You're welcome, Mr. Christian. Okay. Story number 11, this is experiencing it for ourselves. Because the master was conducting a memorial feast for Yun-Yun, a monk asked, what teaching did you receive while you were at Yun-Yun's place? The master said, although I was there, I didn't receive any teachings. Since you didn't actually receive any teachings, why are you conducting this memorial, asked the monk. Why should I turn my back on him?" replied the master. If you began by meeting Nangchuan, why do you now conduct a memorial feast for Yun-Yun?" asked the monk. It is not my former master's virtue or Buddha Dharma that I esteem, only that he did not make exhaustive explanations for me," replied the master.

[49:01]

Since you are conducting this memorial feast for the former master, do you agree with him or not? The master said, I agree with half and don't agree with half. Why don't you agree completely, asked the monk. The master said, if I agreed completely, then I would be ungrateful to my former master. So I half agree, I half disagree. This is about discovering for ourselves. it's okay to recount our teacher's instruction that have been helpful or encouraging to us. But you know, we can read that in books or we can listen to recordings of teachers and just say, you know, don't, don't, uh, you don't need to listen to me. Just go read in my beginner's mind, which is good advice. But ultimately we have to find out for ourselves and our own stories from our own experience.

[50:04]

And that's the half disagree. It's not disagreeing in that what my teacher said was mistaken. It's more of holding this half of the relationship, the teacher and the student, this half that I have to find out for myself. There's a story in our Zen world that in order for Zen to continue to flourish, the student has to supersede the teacher. If they don't supersede the teacher, then the Dharma will perish. So if you're an apprentice somewhere, you learn about plumbing or bookbinding or what have you. So you want to do a good job and you want to learn the craft, but do you actually supersede your mentor or teacher?

[51:05]

Well, perhaps in some ways, maybe not in others, but in Zen, the teaching was, you have to do better than the teacher in order for it to be maintained. So I asked Sojiroshi at Shosan years ago, Sojiroshi, when did you supersede Suzuki Roshi? Otherwise, the Dharma would be perishing. And he said, it's not that I superseded my teacher, I just made the Dharma, I am just making the Dharma available for the next generation. It's like the perfect response of humbleness and just carrying on the tradition, not drawing attention to himself. And for all of us there sitting, this is after a five or seven days Sashin, Sojo Roshi made this practice place possible and available to all of us. So it's superseding in that it's perpetuating the Dharma.

[52:07]

Any thoughts or questions? Okay. Number 74. Sorry Ross, I raised my hand. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see you. Sorry. Um, So I understand and I believe what you say when you say that Zen is something that must be practiced on one's own. No one can give it to you. And yet at the same time, we say that Zen is a special transmission outside the scriptures. What is it that is transmitted? That's a really good question. What do you think? Give a thought on it. I don't know. That's why I'm asking you. I don't know.

[53:14]

I mean, it, it can't, it seems to me that it, it can't just be that the transmission is the recognition of awakening because then what could be said to be transmitted? Um, But at the same time, again, we hear over and over in the koans and the lamp records, you know, in modern teachings, that this is something you have to do yourself. No one can give this to you. It's true. So there's two principles. There's first principle and second principle. The first principle, which is the transmission outside the scriptures, is direct experience or directly touching, as Hojin spoke about at Shosan, I think, last week. The second principle is a commentary, which is what we're doing, and they're both valid. I believe that when we talk about the special transmission outside the scriptures, it's an encouragement not to be book-bound or study-bound, but to practice zazen and experience it directly.

[54:30]

And then it's okay to study and read about it. For me, I was talking about the leaf there, that something was experienced over there in Japan. I did not realize it the way I understand it now of picking the leaf up. But through sitting Zazen and seeing that it's not about me, it's about all of us and everything that makes this me, that I understand that leaf and my relationship to that leaf much differently. So that's like the interpenetration of second principle and first principle. Is that helpful? About 85%. Good. Okay. Well, the 15% you get to work on. Okay. Thank you. Yes. May I, I'd like to piggyback on Jonathan. Hey Jonathan, thank you for that question. Um,

[55:31]

Ross, so in my nine years of investigating Berkeley Zen Center and its people, and I hope I am wrong, and I'm sure I hear from you all, if I say it so unskillfully, but it makes me wonder what is transmitted is the teacher's worldview and how to apply the Dharma more than the understanding of the Dharma. That's the sense that I get. And I hope I'm wrong, but that's sincerely what I seem to see. Yeah, well, it's not about right or wrong. That's really important. It's not about right or wrong. And I believe the half agree, half disagree that you have to find out for yourself. When I was in New York, I was just soaking up practice And it was hard for me to continue there because I did not have that half disagree confidence.

[56:40]

It was all about, I've just got to figure this out and I've got to go along with the program here. At a certain point, I could no longer go with that program. It wasn't that Bernie was wrong or his teaching was an error or I was less than, but in my life at that moment, my half disagree was not strong enough to be able to hang there. So I left. And when I came back here, it took me a while to, to find my strength and confidence in my half disagree because it was a very different style of practice, a more softer style, Sochin style, much softer than, um, than Bernie's. And so, uh, after a while I was able to find my balance again. And, um, uh, when I found myself, getting caught and doubting Sojin's teaching and understanding, I investigated inside myself, wondering who was disagreeing with Sojin here? And what I found myself was, it was my selfish idea, which is not right or wrong, but where I was at in my life.

[57:51]

And ultimately, I realized that I don't have to agree with everything. that Sojin says or his style as a man of a different generation era than what I grew up in. Because my connection with Sojin and what's transmitted is beyond that male, generational figure that's in front of me, for myself. So I encourage you and everyone to find out for themselves. It's okay to question, but not for questioning sake, but for help and understanding as we're all doing here tonight. Thank you for that, Chris. Number 74 is one of my favorite stories because it's very simple and it's about non-duality. A monk asked, how does one escape hot and cold?

[58:55]

Why not go where there is neither hot nor cold, said the master. What sort of place is neither hot nor cold, asked the monk. When it's cold, you freeze to death. When it's hot, you swelter to death. So I had been sitting for maybe about a year or so living in New York, and it was summertime, and it was hot and humid. And I'm not a big fan of the heat or humidity. And so I'm in the subway with my friend Henry, uh, who turned me on to Zen and, uh, jazz music. And the, the, the subway car was empty. There was nobody in there. Like, this is kind of weird. The car is typically packed. And I look, Oh, look over into the next car and it's packed with people and realize that there's no air conditioning in this particular car. So Henry says, Come on, man, let's go to the other car. And I said, no, I'm going to stay here, which was a self-conscious choice that I made.

[60:01]

But I'm going to stick this out. He left, and I sat there in the heat and sweating for the ride. And at a certain point, it was OK just being there in the sweat, sweating in the heat. It was beyond comfort and discomfort. It wasn't a grand enlightenment experience that's going to go in a book and it's going to be repeated for eons after about that great teacher, Ross Blum at Berkeley Zen Center. No, it was just a simple thing of just bearing with discomfort and being in a place of stillness and Zazen, of just accepting this is what it is. It's nothing wrong with getting up and going to an air conditioned car. It's okay. pull down a window in your house if it's too hot inside. But try not moving. Try just being present. As Sojin says, dying on the cushion. It's not a literal death.

[61:03]

It's a spiritual death. It's a death of picking and choosing and just being present. A friend of mine used to have a sitting on Friday afternoons on the lawn at UC Berkeley on Oxford Street, opposite the Berkeley Art Museum, current Berkeley Art Museum, during the war in the Middle East. I think it was the invasion of Iraq. And he invited people to sit there, whether they were Democrats or Republicans, just to be a presence for peace. And I thought about that. I said, that's going beyond the duality of right and wrong and political parties just sitting for peace, which we all can accept and orient ourselves toward. Any questions or comments?

[62:04]

Ron, please unmute yourself. If somebody has a question about this one, I wanted to go back to the one before this one. Please. Okay. Before? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, the transmission question. The transmission thing. Well, I don't remember what number it was. Ask your question. We'll figure it out. Okay. It's not so much a question because I hadn't thought about this so much actually, but my understanding, which is shallow, up to now, has been that transmission, when we talk about transmission, is more mind-to-mind, I guess you could kind of say confirmation. It's not that the teacher is transmitting something to you. It's that the teacher is basically acknowledging, or as both people are acknowledging, that they have the same understanding and it's not an intellectual understanding.

[63:17]

So understanding may not be the best word. Let's just say they're on the same page, whatever that means. And that's what, when they use the word transmission, that's what they mean. And that is because we can fool ourselves. We can think we have some enlightenment experience and we're just full of ourselves. And a teacher, a good teacher can, confirm that or tell you, no, you're missing something in their own way. So that's a kind of a partnership, you could say, which also kind of preserves the integrity of the practice for everyone too. Yes, that's a good question or a good point, Ron. Thank you for bringing it up. Yeah, unlike being an apprentice in a craft, where you master something and the mentor says, you're good to go. This is something that is a different kind of craft.

[64:21]

That's a acknowledgement or confirmation of somebody's maturity and understanding. It isn't so difficult to have an enlightenment experience. We all have enlightenment experiences, moments of awakening to dissolving subject and object and just being present with something. But for a confirmation and a refinement of our understanding, it does take a bona fide teacher to see that and confirm us. And I think what Chris was getting at is, well, what about when the teacher is, you don't really have so much confidence in the teacher's open mind? If you feel like they're biased, well, then that may not be the right teacher for you in that kind of relationship. But I still think you can get something, you can acknowledge that that's the case for your understanding of that teacher. It doesn't mean that you can't work with that person. But what he brings up is also valid because I think there's a certain amount of trust that we have in our teacher, and which also includes their limitations.

[65:33]

And so we just have to fuss with that. We have to deal with that. Well, thank you for Ron and also acknowledging Christian's question or comment, which is a good one. It reminds me of Sojin saying that I'm just carrying the practice on for the next generation. I believe that certain questions that come up and some people's voiced concerns or criticisms or critique of Sojin are particular to Sojin's style or personality. So with subsequent teachers or even current teachers that people are working with, they may very well be able to coalesce around something that they're more seen or more recognized in a certain way and they can actually work better with. Not to unlike my own experience between Bernie and Sojin. Yeah. I've got four more stories and it's getting close to 8.15.

[66:45]

I'm wondering if people would be open to staying for maybe 10 more minutes after. And if you have to drop out, you can leave the meeting. As we do in the Zendo, people have to leave for some reason. Number 78. A monk asked, if a snake were swallowing a frog, what would be the consequence of rescuing it or not rescuing it? If you were to rescue it, said the master, then you would not be seeing with your two eyes. And if you were not to rescue it, shapes and shadows would no longer be manifest. This is a story about equality and discernment. the world of equality or horizontalness and discernment or the vertical.

[67:51]

So when the, when the master said, then you would not be seeing with your two eyes. Uh, the two eyes are the world of equality. If you are, um, if you want to rescue it because everything is equal, you don't do anything. Just sit there. Oh, it's all equal. but if you were not to rescue it, shapes and shadows would no longer be manifest. Shapes and shadows are the worlds, are the things that are, that are, um, uh, the residue or the signs, uh, of our life. The things that actually are the traces that we attach to, which are the world of dualism, the world of right and wrong, this is good and bad and such. So how do we, uh, practice a balance between, things are equal, but things are different. Uh, when we start sitting Zazen, uh, there's something that's called, um, cultivating Samadhi or concentration.

[68:56]

And some people can kind of get hooked on that and become like Samadhi freaks because everything is, is all copacetic and cool. And they sit through, uh, the bell that, uh, initiates Kinyan and they just dwell in that world of oneness. and they don't want to do anything else. So Suzuki Roshi encouraged us to get up off the cushion and to let go of that samadhi and zazen on the cushion and carry zazen into the world as you walk. So you blend or you merge the world of oneness with the world of activity. And that way there's a more holistic way of dealing with, there's a frog there, and a snake, what do I do? It's not right or wrong to save the frog or to let the snake eat it. It's all about us. Everything is a test, as Suzuki Roshi says.

[69:57]

What am I going to do? Any questions? Ron? I can't resist. I saw that play out, exactly that scene. Up at Wilbur Hot Springs, at the pool, all of a sudden these four mice came scurrying out of the underbrush, down onto the concrete surface of the pool. And after them, very tiny little mice, and after them, this big long snake came very purposely slithering down the concrete wall, towards them. And the people, the humans that were standing around said, should we save them? What should we do? And the consensus was, no, we're in nature now. Just let them let it be. And of course, the snake purposely went to each one and swallowed it.

[71:00]

So I just wanted to give you a graphic representation of what you just read. Thank you. Yeah. Well, these stories, uh, you know, they're setups. It's a stage and presumably they are based on, uh, something that actually happened that was recorded 1200 years ago. And here, here it was. Well, what happened for you? Did you want to save, did you want to save the mice? Push the snake away? Um, no, I would, I would agree. I agreed with him. I would just let nature play out without humans interfering. Yeah. A similar story, number 98, Nothing is Hidden. One time when the master was washing his bowls, he saw two birds contending over a frog.

[72:04]

A monk who also saw this asked, Why does it come to that? The master replied, it's only for your benefit, Acharya. So rather than explaining why there's this picking and choosing going on and these two birds contending over a frog, it's for the Acharya or the mendicant's benefit. You can think about it in your own life when you're arguing with someone about something. Do we let go? Do we argue our case and hold on? What's the relationship between, I mean, in the story, there are these two birds contending over a frog. What about when it's you and your friend contending over an argument or what to do about preparing a meal for the sangha or digging a ditch? It always comes to that.

[73:08]

What to do and how can we harmonize? And does harmony mean that I give up and concede to you? Sometimes you give up and concede to me. That's the relationship. There's no way of knowing. So we come up against the snake and the mice, well, what do we do? You let nature play out, that's okay. Pull the snake away, that's okay too, saving a being. Nothing is hidden. It's all right there. Any questions or thoughts? Judy? Yeah, what was coming up for me was our formless repentance ceremony and renewal of vows, which is that sometimes my experience of that kind of a situation is it's not clear in the moment and yet

[74:15]

the events are unfolding in real time. So there it is with the snake and the mice, and something's going to happen. And I'm not clear, because first I'm in shock, then I'm confused. I am trying, you know, all in real time, what's my relationship? Am I separate from nature? Am I now, has nature now shifted because I'm here? And so I can't get caught in that idea either. And, you know, it's like the old story of while While the thoughts are going, you know, the action proceeds. So let's just say I'm sitting there all confused and churned up, don't know what to do, and the snake gets the mice, and then later I have this serious remorse, whatever it is, around I should have done something, or I have this sense that I, you know, that was, Or let's say I did act from a place that didn't feel totally clear, but it just seemed like there's a need.

[75:19]

And I saved the mice, but later I might have regret that, oh, I interfered with nature. Now it comes to the bodhisattva ceremony, and I'm bowing with formless repentance and all that. And I'm just wondering, how do you see this sense of when one acts without seeming harmony or clarity, which happens all the time, and therefore, in my view, we have a repentance ceremony to deal with that. That's one of the reasons. How does that connect to all of this? Well, to me, what comes up is that off the cushion, whatever is thought said or done creates karma. And taking, you know, just this person as in the earlier story, taking responsibility for what is done or what act is performed is an opportunity to see and feel the responsibility and the effects of that.

[76:35]

And sometimes we see it right away, And sometimes you don't see it till many, many years later. So the repentance ceremony is an opportunity to, uh, say just this person kind of, um, not so personally, you know, in the old days, the monks would stand up and confess their transgressions to, to the other, uh, students and monks, uh, about something that they thought, said, or did. We have the, um, opportunity to do that more secretively. But if we're practicing, my experience is that I can still, I feel the hurt that I've thought, said, or done by my greed, ill will, and delusion or confusion without actually having to tell the other person. It's great if the other person hears it,

[77:39]

and sometimes there's a reconciliation but at the ceremony it's not about the person it's about me and that can be helpful and opening just to say that. It's helpful to have the sense that you know of course the one continuous mistake but really Mistakes is expressing the path, because it's asking for that in return. I participated in a confessional ceremony a year or so after transgression, not expecting that I was actually going to be participating in one, which was, I happened to contact an old friend and they were upset about something that I had said to them a year ago. And we had it out and sorted out what that was about. And it wasn't a formal ceremony of bowing, but an honest acceptance of what was true for me at the time and why I said what I said and did what I did.

[78:52]

And it took a while to go back and forth to kind of have some peace with that. And at the end of it, I spoke with him. I said, well, how are you feeling about that? about what was just transpired. And they said, um, uh, essentially I can live with that. They weren't, it wasn't healed, but it was better than a year ago. And, um, so I'm grateful that we happened to have run into each other and sorted that out because we're all carrying around baggage from our, um, family and friends and whatever is taking place. And so when we meet a new person, uh, we, we're expressing, uh, something that maybe isn't, isn't so clean and pure. Thanks for bringing that up, Judy. Uh, in 102, uh, it's not sticking to one side or another. A monk asked, what is the meaning of the blue green mountains at

[79:57]

and the father is the father of the white clouds. So this refers to a story about the blue mountains and the white clouds that Sojin often likes to recite, story of Tozan. So Tozan, a famous Zen master, this is in my beginner's mind. Tozan, a famous Zen master said, the blue mountain is the parent of the white cloud. The white cloud is the child of the blue mountain. All day long they depend on each other without being dependent on one another. The white cloud is always a white cloud. The blue mountain is always a blue mountain. So the mountain is stillness or oneness and the cloud is the world of activity or multiplicity, and that's always changing.

[81:01]

And so it's the one and the many interplaying back and forth. So when the monk asks, what is the meaning of the blue-green mountains? Is the father of the white clouds? There's stillness. with activity around. So when we're sitting Zazen, we're experiencing stillness and the activity around us, which is in our mind. The master said, it's a place not densely wooded. So the mountain is not densely wooded means for me that there's a spaciousness between those trees. It's not a rigid fixed thing where there's no space. And by sitting zazen, in stillness, we actually stretch our spine and we experience some spaciousness in our being.

[82:05]

And within that spaciousness, things lighten up and things can move around more easily. What is the meaning of the white clouds, the child of the blue mountain, asked the monk. No distinction between East and West, replied the master. So this is the world of intimate relationship. The child and the parent, the student and the teacher, there's intimacy there. There's a connection and a feeling of the oneness and the many. For me, I had this experience of being in a kind of a difficult conversation with someone. So my mind is busy running and creating things to say. My ear is receiving what my friend was saying and it was very busy.

[83:07]

So those are the clouds or the storm that's moving in this conversation with my friend. And it was uncomfortable. And what I did was I, I sat as still as I could or I stood as still as I could and connected to my breathing, which is always there. And that was a spaciousness in the trees, between the trees, to recognize your spaciousness here. Not up here, there's no space there. It's all about arguing who's right, who's wrong. But with that spaciousness to connect to the breathing and the stillness or the parent that's observing the child arguing with the other child on the playground. And what happens is, is that there's a relationship between it's just what's happening. It's okay. It's still. And the activity of you're right.

[84:11]

I'm wrong. I'm right. You're wrong. All of that busyness, which we get caught into. So how do we connect to that stillness that this is just what's happening while maintaining a connection in relationship? We're not in like this with our cosmic mood. You're just, you know, not, not looking at them and talking. We're actually talking and engaging, but inside is our breath and awareness of posture that we can always come back to moment after moment. What is the meaning of the white clouds? Hang out all day as the month master said, can't leave. The clouds can't leave. They're not separate. There's always that multiplicity that surrounds the stillness. And what is the meaning of the blue-green mountains completely unknown as the monk?

[85:12]

It's nothing to watch. For me, that's like the ENSO, that everything is contained here. We talk about the differences. That's the second principle. We read commentaries, we ask questions, there's responses, and hopefully there's some greater understanding, but it's an acceptance of all things. Any questions or comments before we go to the last story? And again, my email address is in the chat, We can have an after class exchange in between now and next week as well if something comes up for you. Okay, the last story is 103. This is about acceptance. A monk asked, what kind of grass is on the other shore?

[86:18]

Grass that doesn't sprout, answered the master. The other shore, of course, is the shore of enlightenment and going to the other shore, which is about the story of awakening and the Bodhisattva's vow to bring others to the other shore. So I don't know if he had that expression years ago in China about the grass always greener on the other shore, but that's what came up to mind. You know, the grass is always greener, the job is going to be better. the romantic partner is going to be, uh, uh, more compatible for me. We get caught in that all the time. And it's, it's a good, it's a good question that arises. Where is, where is my dissatisfaction coming from? And is it going to be better over there? You know, is it double that, you know, better than the devil? You don't, you know, I don't know.

[87:21]

But what is grass that doesn't sprout? For me, that's stillness. There's just what is, and then it's expression. And we experience both. There's a stillness in the activity. While we can get caught in stillness and just be like in that samadhi zone and not do anything, more often than not, we get caught in the sprout, the expression that's in front of us. So what is it that doesn't sprout? What is it that doesn't sprout? You know, there's the, in the Alaya Vishnana, which is the storehouse of all of our experiences, there are these seeds.

[88:29]

And in the model of that, of the Yogacara school, when those seeds are watered, then they sprout and come forth and create our, our life, so to speak. So what are those seeds before they sprout? What is that grass before sprouting? Roots? Yes. Yeah, I was answering your question. Roots. Without roots, you don't sprout. If you move to another Zen center, you're not going to lay roots that can sprout understanding and good practice. I really like that. Yeah, by staying put and developing deep roots, the seed will sprout. And it's accepting the soil and the rocks that you need to practice through. Exactly. So to get back to your earlier point that Ron highlighted, um, one could say that I'm going to go to see another teacher.

[89:37]

You know, I, I just can't, so just, I just can't get, get, uh, get his understanding, his Dharma. I'm not being seen. I'm not being acknowledged. I need something. I'm going to go elsewhere. And what happens if we stay here and develop greater and deeper roots? It still might be that we feel that sojourn might not get us and we might be seen or affirmed or transmitted, but it's a different thing when we can present ourselves from a deeper, more deeply rooted place than from a place of shallow roots. and everybody has a different expression, a different relationship. As Sojin says, it's okay to do other practices, other Dharmic practices or practices that aren't necessarily Buddhist practices, but find something that works and go deep with that. Find something that goes deep with that.

[90:41]

Wow. Well, thank you all for staying. It's eight 37. Um, I appreciate everyone's, uh, stick to it and developing deep roots and staying with us. I, um, I really appreciate everybody's questions and comments and I hope that there was, um, uh, enough encouragement and clarity to, um, carry you on, uh, in your practice. And if you have any questions or doubts about it, uh, don't doubt yourself, ask the question of me, of your other confidants, of Sojin Roshi at Shosan, which happens every other week on Thursday evenings, and find your own understanding and clarity. Any final thoughts or comments? Okay.

[91:51]

see you next week. Oh, Judy had a comment. I was just saying, I think I'm going to have interesting dreams tonight, imagining what grass that does not sprout looks like. Well, let us know next week what it looks like. AstroTurf. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much, Ross. A great class. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I, um, it's hard to know, you know, it's a, it's a very personal thing to study, to sit thoughts in and to study. But it's when we express ourselves, we don't know how it lands. So actually getting feedback from you all is helpful for me when, if it's landing or if it's not landing, because if it's not landing, I need to work harder to help move the practice along. And we meet somewhere in the middle. So I see you all next week, 7-15, and we'll talk about the five positions of Tozan.

[92:57]

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