The Dharma Of Listening and Speaking

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everybody thank you good morning everyone good morning
you can mute yourselves for now if you will ah
so this morning
my subject is
the dharma of listening and speaking
those are you were on the berkeley and center listserv
received our
guidelines hub for participation a list serve which i'll talk about later
and please were
guideline instead
had been framed and
discussed widely over the last couple of months and the reflect our
a way to
have a dormant approach to speaking and to a to articulate that for our community but i wanted to step back and look at the context
i spoken before ah a number of times about the teachings that i see embedded in the
title of in category roche's first two books
just by reading the titles you can
find something to reflect on but you should read the books books and pretty good ah
first his first book was called returning to silence
and his second book was called you have to say something
so returning to silence
he is
stepping into the mind of receptivity
the open mind ah the mind of zaza
and you could say it's
why i would say it's hearing her listening is a component of the had been listening is kind of the the active component of hearing which is just
you take a moment
right now where you are
what are the sounds in your environment
refrigerator humming
sound of my favorite breathing car going by
all of these are
the functioning of our open mind
and in fact all of our senses
our in this receptive mode
and our bodies out for
poti suffer essence is also in this receptive more if you think of the bodhisattva of compassion of located far or
karen funny
she's often referred to as
one who sees the cries of the world says that kind of actually seen a seizure
to see the cries of all
since the cries of the world arise in her open mind
she sees him
so that is are returning to silence and that's the fundamental training that we have in zazen
but we also know that zazen and as a mind is not something that is
confined to
well we couldn't use people say confined to the walls of the zendo but
we haven't been begin those walls for nineteen months now so his thousand confined door zoom screen item
you know
the fall unfolding of zazen
he's also in our life
and in our life
rebound bound to have activities
that activity is why it's incumbent upon us
to say something
have to say something we have to do something
we have to do our zazen with our bodies it's an activity so this is this is also the active side of our practice
is what complete this continuous circle of the way
ah a way that
they begin at any one point on the circle and continues around and then continues again we're always moving between
returning to silence and having to say something

so it is sense
i think that what i'm talking about today is an extension of what ron was speaking of or at least a thread on what ron was speaking of last week has
it is is pretty fine lecture on ordinary mind

he was talk about talking about how we listen and how we accept things and how we fold all fees
all of our perceptions of our receptions all of our thoughts into
our ordinary mine from minded includes everything
i found a yeah
a quotation from
can use as if you roshi that i wanna read to you ha is from a lecture that he gave in february nineteen sixty seven and a i'm beginning here beginning here with the functioning of listening
because i think this is where we start we have to be able to live
before we can say anything we have to be able to lose so suzuki or if she says when you listen to someone you should give up all your preconceived ideas and your subjective opinions
this is really hard and actually just to to clear the decks and remove yourself and just
see just here and listen to what's been said
all of your preconceived remove give up all your preconceived ideas in your subjective opinions you suggest listen to him or her
you should just observe what this person's way his
we put very little emphasis on right and wrong good and bad
i think what he's suggesting is
we have to ratchet back
our habit of evaluation of right and wrong good and bad harm
in this i think it's in the context of his listening and we put very little emphasis on right and wrong good and bad in that moment
it's not like there's no right and wrong does no good or bad we should throw this out and we should think that everything is the same that in the moment of listening to someone
try to set aside your evaluative mind
just here
or see
the cries of the world just see that person as here she is not filtered through your own detriment
we just see things as they are with his person and accept them
this is how we communicate with each other
usually when you listen to some statement you hear it as a kind of echo of yourself
you are actually listening to your own opinion
and he notices i can certainly own that myself just
i evaluate it
can i apply a whole lot of my own standards in my own kids
and i also the practice is to try to set that aside
to recognize
recognize the rising of that
because of my
self centered ideas and i tried to set it aside
so you're actually listening to your own opinion if it agrees with your opinion may accepted but if it does not you reject who you may not even really hear it
you may not even really it
that's really
that's can appear sick to me
we think we're listening to put not

the ticknor on speaks of this
ha in his
glass on the
on the precepts
he caused the precepts mindfulness trainings
they're actually practices that develop our awareness of ourselves and our ability to
work with ourselves to get ourselves out of the way so here he moves and is combining listening and speaking
so in his fourth mindfulness training which has got deep listening and loving speech
tip none han says aware of the suffering caused by unmindful speech and the inability to listen to others
because aware of the suffering caused by unmindful speech my online for speech
and my ability by inability to listen to others i vow to cultivate loving speech and deep listening in order to bring joy and happiness to others and to leave others of their suffering
i would
extend that to say if i can do that it's a great relief to me
it takes the weight of my own opinions off my shoulders
knowing that words can create happiness are suffering i vowed to learn to speak truthfully when words that inspire self confidence joy and hope
i would add that that
words are like
at once you have released an arrow
tamed it and released it you cannot call it back
once you have said something
it moves towards its target
and sometimes the better we are
with words
the more likely it is to hit its target and to woot
can you can't call it back
and once you have
arrived at your target
it's possible that in time
there can be healing
i think that it's also likely that it will be scar tissue
for libya's scar
the won't will be there
and that wound cannot be completely undone
this is what i think ticknor on his means when he says that knowing that words can create happiness are suffering i vowed to learn to speak truthfully with words that inspire self confidence joy and oak
i am determined not to spread news that i do not know to be certain
not criticize or condemned things from what i i'm not sure
i will refrain from uttering words that can cause division or discord
or that can cause the family or the community to break
i will make all efforts to reconcile
and resolve all conflicts however small
so it has since these last
this last a pronouncements are for re-framing of
the principles of right speech that
we have in our precepts
and also we have ha has the hub
as the third step of the a full bath right speech
so you may be familiar in our precepts
ah the ones we chant and are cerebral aneurysm weekend to the whole new sub for ceremony
before it precept is i vowed to refrain from false speech
ha and douglas commentary and that this commentary are lovely ah the dharma wheel turned from the beginning there is neither surplus nor lack
the sweet do saturate all and harvests the truth
two vow to refrain from false speech is to laugh is to allow
the truth to
germinate and grow
the fifth precept is a vow not to slander
doggett commentary there is in the buddha dharma
go together appreciate realize and actualized together
do not permit haphazard talk to not corrupt the way
so this haphazard talk this slander his corrupting the way in indulgence
slander is a minute come back to it because it's spoken of in a number of different traditions and the seventh of our grave precepts is i vow not to praise self at the expense of others
all buddhas and ancestors realize the same limitless sky
when they realize your true body there is nothing inside or outside
for a bit of earth on the ground
so this is
the assertion of
the wisdom of equality
praising ourself at the expense of others
self aggrandizing ah etc
a denial of the fundamental equality of all beads
daddy quality is an essential it is inequality of essence on quality of ability it's not a quality a a party in australia
i'm intelligent sore of skill or of athletic prowess ah or of
ah a lot of other things that we usually used to way are worse
it's just saying that
we are essentially all buddhists we are all the scene of the same stuff and thereby worthy of deep respect and of ah
where the of making the effort not to elevate crystals

state these principles again
we bow to abstain from false speech not can tell wise or deceive
we vow not to slander others we speak in a way that is divisive calls causes disharmony or enmity
we vowed to abstain from rude or impolite or abusive language
and the most difficult of all
we vow not to indulge in idle talk gossip
that's really
because it happens it it just kind of
leaks out without as merely knowing
i once heard a lecture of the ha
the person teacher joseph goldstein who was talking about speaking
then he said he tried this really really difficult practice for a year and the practice was
never to say anything about a person who was not physically present in the room
you know we're in other words if that person wasn't right there
his practice was not to say anything about them just think about how hard at is think about how often
we are speaking about people aren't present

there's another set of instructions from the buddha ha which is found in the a buyer ceuta which isn't them it's in the middle length ah the medzamor nikaya the middle age ah
it breaks things down
harsh in in another way that i think is useful ah it's basically boils down to
not as the basis of of are speaking should be
an evaluation of whether something is true
useful timely
and speaking up speed spoken of with a kind or
with a kind mind or a mind that intense benefit
and i'm not gonna go through this whole thing but it's it's
in the way that policy to sometimes our it's it's very methodical
so he says in the case of words that to talk that knows to be on factual untrue on beneficial on endearing and disagreeable to others he does not said
in the case of words to talk it knows to be factual true
but on beneficial on a during and disagreeable to others he does not see them
in the case of words doctor knows to be on factual untrue on beneficial but a gearing endearing and agreeable to others he does not say them
did you get that you get the flavor of this ah
and it's it's really interesting because a few years ago
i came on a little book ah i can remember how i came on it ah but attempt to find it it's the title of his book is guard your tongue
and it's by it's it's have published by an obscure jewish religious publisher and the author ha is a contemporary his name is rabbi zelig blizzcon
and what this book is is a commentary on a commentary which is this is a very jewish thing commentary to comment on it's actually a very buddhist thing to ah ah
you could ask
what's the nature of the world well it's commentaries all the way down you know
oh ah he's commenting on the work a work called the profits claim
which translates as the desire of life and this was a nineteenth century book by robert rabbi meir kagame ah it's it's a masterful compendium on
ins and outs of what's called lush on era which is wrong and slanderous speech
and the title
desire of life draws from the lines from lines of psalm thirty four
says who is the man who desires life who loves days to see goodness
guard your tongue from evil and your lips from speaking deceitfully
shun evil and do good
seek peace and pursue it
as usual desert just beautiful words
i was looking at the introduction
to or got your tongue today
the creek every new authentic your fault little story this is all the story about
ah rabbi kagan
ha a businessman from warsaw
once handed the rabbi
a list of the books that he wanted to buy
every kicking a quick glance at the list the rabbi asked him i notice you offered you ordered every one of my books except for the profits fame the laws of le genre
wrong speech
why did you leave out such an important book
then said i would really like to buy that book also was a reply but i'm afraid to
you see i come in contact with many people every day helene my position it's impossible for me not to speak and hear genre
rabbi said i'm fully aware of that problem
haven't even spoken to my friend ha
rabies rail cylinder about it he said this
it's worthwhile for somebody to read your book on bush genre
even if the only result will be a sigh when he completed
so we're going to
it's like all of the precepts
sometimes people are reluctant to
to do a precept ceremony to have layered nation because they have the katie's bodhisattva precepts and
ah they're concerned i can't keep them
ah i can keep the precepts on right speech again keep the mood you know what's it mean if i have
if i have a glass of wine does that mean breaking a precept on are non-toxic being self or others
the fact is
her response
the response to our
our better expressed
by a sigh or by
oh laugh laughing at ourselves
then judging ourselves and our
berating ourselves for not being able to keep something in fact you cannot keep anything
the precepts
including these precepts and speech or there
to give us something to return to

and this is actually the spirit to me of these list serve guidelines that on we circulated
they're going to be on the website if you're not on the website now ha
and they're offered as the first sentence as in the spirit of community harmony inclusivity in the expression of right speech
i'm not gonna go through all this hub
no point by point but they're about the first point is it is
to avoid speech that's intentionally hurtful
in other words
you know that you are aiming your bow and arrow
because you want to inflict a wound
we're going to we vow
that's not the spirit with which we are
saying thinks some lizard should also say that the listserve is is basically intended for the sharing of information
ah and for needs and services
personal announcement around since at practice events ah
it's not really designed for ah extensive dharma dialogue but sometimes that happens and when that does happen that's this okay
but this lizard that these guidelines are here to encourage us to remind us of the spirit of our discourse so ah to speak with the intention to connect
to support safety
to recognize that there's the can be a difference between our intention in our impact the intention in the impact of my words intention is not intention is really important
but we should also recognise ah that we don't always know
how things are going to land this is where what a let me just circle back a moment and go to those for stipulations of the buddha for speaking the stipulation to to speak when you
when something is when your words are true useful timely and of beneficial intention
this sounds great
it sounds really oh it's very simple language it's very clear
until you really think about it
when you really think about it
ha one can quite legitimately question
what is true
oh true
in my perception may not be exactly true in boys perception
what is useful well
from whose perspective all of this is a question all of these things that
the question of perspective and perception
are critical and they
lead us to question true useful timely you know i a think something is timely
but ah carol paul mind i think it's timely
you know or maybe timely for me but i need for her you know ah and a beneficial intention that's the one that you can really checked yourself that's probably the closest you can get is to know what your intention is is my intention to can
net for divide this is a fundamental dharma issue
the essence of dharma is about
connecting not dividing
but this where we count this is where we come to the fact that there may be a distinction between my intention
and the impact so we consider that
the guidelines go on to have
offer a cook that we commit to avoiding harsh language
ah hadn't anakin us spell out all that there might be ah hand suggests that we
the practice of right view
he is to ask clarifying questions
rather than rely on our assumptions this circles round back to suzuki roshi is quotation you know asking clarifying questions his way of finding out but the other person is thinking
rather than relying on
my assumptions are my habitual understanding

the purpose of
any kind of dharma discourse
things that may come up
ah and be discussed on listserve things have come up in in
since i may come up in the q and a for this talk ah in are open discussions in our forums in all of our meetings of are many meetings ah
how do we deepen our practice
how do we create a context in which weekend
really continue this circle of returning to silence
and seeing something
one who thinks it i've
found really enjoyable
over the years is and i do this like i did it today
this talk
he emerges
from a period of southern
and so it really helpful to inhabit
saas and mind
before one opens one's mouth
and i just find when i do that
what comes out is more measured
i can't say as show more useful
it comes from
it has the opportunity to come from the same place that one's voice does when one is chanting comes from your horror comes from your belly comes from the seat of your being
we want to have the ability
to speak from there also we want to listen so that the things that we here
also go all the way through her body

so i think i just think out a close by just ah
me reading these verses that inspired ah hafetz fame
just a verse from these few lines from psalm thirty four
who is the person
who desires life
who loves
each day to see goodness
the evil and your lips from speech deceitfully
shun evil and do good
seek peace and pursue it or you could say
here peace
thank you and are
we have time for question answer and i'll turn it over to heiko to ah be the master of ceremonies
good morning everyone thank you for attending to our lecture
please feel free to ask questions i will call on you in order
logo with christian of first
go ahead chris
i think it ecosoc ah i want to extend my gratitude to our listserv santa and some of its influence hearts to that over the past months and years there's less less that's that's being shared
that is contentious or a partisan or granted that ninety seven percent of berkeley people vote a certain way so he gets really comfortable to share something that you think is not political or contentious are are are in fact it is if you intend to think that it
was political
or constantly reinforcing her over one sided view but if the recipients have legitimate ways to think so and are not alone
but what i want to focus on is that we have made
tremendous progress inquiry the muddy waters so that we can see more the notices are among us so i want to think
thank you for that christian i really i appreciate that and ah
i appreciate
your willingness to express yourself ah even in places where ha
i make not i might have a different view and same time i want to come
i want to listen when in the spirit that suzuki roshi was outlining can in that context i think there's room for everybody said think
and you chris said to ocean please go ahead
thank you
cause i really officiated you talk and i loved the quote from the rabbis
speaking about the sun hurrah
i don't observe on yom kippur anymore but i really appreciate the timings yeah
i i wanna talk about him by embodying the bodhisattva vows
i realized when you spoke time miss the chant the body sought for chant i used to walk through the woods in the adirondacks chanting it were trying to remember it and it meant a lot to me
also i was trying to let the bears now and the hunters said i was there
that i i just wonder if you have give them about
incorporating or bodhisattva vows it means along
not well we have been first of all wrote something you said team
what you say it the beginning of your your comment
before he chalked it up but the body seven pounds
oh well one thing i said was a for shape
the the conversation about the hurrah and on yom kippur right on thank you so git
the thing that i like about this guard your tongue book just say is it
it is just with every one of these things that we think are so small and ah you know inconsequential hell is it has a very
commentary which are just stories you know someone so said such and such and ah
you begin to see how pervasive it it's like what the what
was shaking
you know if you if you know something to be untrue and untimely but endearing you know and welcome etc it's it parses this completely so it is really interesting book is called guard your tongue and i think an office and of the texas available on line but
the book is available can it may not be cheap
i'm not sure
we do we chant the bodhisattva vows but going to check them again to this lecture are you talking but to police such vows or body suffers ceremony i think the ceremony of plan the vows to i mean that's that's why i it struck me you'd come in about the importance of embodiment
i think that's where it just became part of my being so many years ago
well what i would say is will come back to it as soon as we're back you know we won't reinstitute the bodhisattva summary
it hasn't gone anywhere bodies that freezer all waiting they're very patient with us
thank you susan i will ask got mad and if he ever a question in a chat map please go ahead
thank you so much is this is such a helpful talk
our and i i just had to thoughts from the islamic tradition can you hear me okay yeah you're great
this is a
this is a there
issue that's discussed a lot in the islamic tradition and there are two stories that i thought of one is some followers of the prophet mohammad were told by him don't don't backbite and they said well suppose what we say about the person is true he said if it's true it's backbiting and if it's
false it's calumny
so making that distinction and the ended hazrat ali said once i wish i had a neck as long as a giraffe so i would have that much time to think about what i was gonna say before i said it
it's commitment is a pro thank you i found the so helpful to they thank you thank you it's good to see you on the
the hafetz hi i'm is very much like those stories know it's it's it's totally the same period is it's parsing those distinctions if you say one thing it's this problem if you say if you say something else is this problem it's it's very it's wonderfully detailed you
might you would enjoy it i know
thank you mad will take this one question from the chat a blake as how do we apologize when we have not used beneficial speech
how do you apologize for anything
ah you have to
you have to risk
shall i say lowering yourself but really it's not lowering you so you have to risk leveling yourself put placing yourself at the same level ha and that's scary to us
i would say i mean one of the things again and i've talked about this quite a bit
do zazen
before you apologize settle your mind and
green up
the thought how do i want to be received
instead of just kind of plunging in
you know how do i want heroin received how what is my intention here my intention is to connect ah if my intention is to connect then harm
not just to redress of grievance and we have better chance of an out of a fruitful outcome
but gives a risk and off so
take it in and get support you know talk to your friends don't your teachers
thank you thank you very for the equation i'm gonna call on karen we don't hear from parents so often please go ahead
the you good to see you the question i had was when you described on kind of the metaphor of speech as an arrow were once you've released it you can't take it back the reaction i have to that is to think oh i i need to make sure i think really carefully about what i said
for that reason but i also notice it a lot of my wife and conduct that i am more prone towards not saying something because i keep thinking and thinking and thinking and that not saying something is also a form of speak can there's moments where i'm like i probably should have said something but i didn't because i thought about it until
it was no longer timely so as wondering what you would say about that tension what would it would see is that both of them have the same route which is
both the both can be reached the bus can be corrected by the same practice at route which is ah
to recognize
our car conditioning or a visual mind
of which which also includes ah
the various circumstances and are
conditions of all of our life you know where
which might evolve into a one aspect might evolve gender or race you know different different at different things that socially conserve to silence but fundamentally than you have think
do i want to be
pushed around buys why wanna be controlled by
my habits of by conditioning war two i want to live by that
so to identify them wow
is our practice once you've identified the vow then you have a a much clearer way of distinguishing whether to speak or not
rather than habitual feeder habitual doubts which would lead to silencing or habitual urgencies
the made sense it does thank you so to boil it down ha
the in token he says
r donald i
well let me now called toby because i can imported or i don't i can't quite get it basically we will do
what we are trained to do
and if we're training herself in our habits in our fears and the oppression we may experience that's one thing if we're training ourselves from the bodhisattva way that's living by val

thank you turn i had a please go ahead of question
what it has on
so this this idea of a speech is a lifelong journey familiar probably many a assholes
and i feel like
there's an arc
that i'm riding along learning my relationship to it and at this stage in life some of my strongest right speech mussels come from having used wrong speech muscles and learn from it
my question is about
you know i'm raising a middle-school a kid i supervise people who are younger than me i'm around people who are at a different stage in their life
may want to say things that wouldn't fall in the right speech category and i'm a tip to thirty minutes a category i'm wondering how you've thought about am
in a way mentoring can follow along the path when words can be so important in men manifesting testing oneself at a particular stage of development
i guess first i would empathize with them
because i was once like that and they have not ah
i don't think i've eradicated all tracy
ah and to learn from them
and so i think another expression that use is
ah something that we talk about a lot and be in the chaplaincy trading of above him coming alongside him
so it's not so much here's what i've learned new it's like walking alongside someone having a conversation
and trusting their buddha-nature who to open up the relational aspect that allow allows for the communication
zomig sense
we have a lot to learn a member guy
oh god
a young person living back in the house again and how
no not surprisingly he's gonna lot of opinions
i put to the really a lot to learn from you yes i appreciate them over this think it
thank you know there's someone at preston's house has a question please sir
i'll go right ahead
hassan with us
idle speech mean to you and wiser discouraged
oh i know speech adequate what you're talking about is basically well
it's talking about speech that is about be
it's self is self reinforcing speech is speaking so that one can hear in verify oneself is another kind of speech that
i learned about ah
that that seems like idol speech but it's not ah when when we were in japan in with have been practiced spirited and resilience suzuki roshi temple this has led by a full disco some of you may know
long time said practitioner and paul had spent a long time in japan and was ah
a fluent japanese speaker and else just
really immersed in japanese culture ah and on but more the temple and temples about
half mile
up the hill from a little crossroads ah town which has like up there was a literally cross road and a little convenience store with a for market and what paul said is when you go down to the market
just watched the old ladies
in the road or outside the market just watch them basically
seeing how are you good morning nice weather today and just watch them and as he doing this they are bowing to each other
and that's not idle talk that is talk to create let's talk expressing relationship so i just want to make sure that you know ah you don't throw the baby out with the best water seventy sense
thank you press that ozone we have three more questions said at eleven seventeen would you like composure period piece of end okay so we're going to end for today's thank you all reporting of no no make the questions in and oh okay can hear you thank you okay well then we have joke please go ahead
ah i'm thank you so much for this talk it's been it's a great talk and helpful thermal or wanting the really struck me is when you are quoting from suzuki roshi of when you listen ah
two totally let go of your opinions and all of that and ah very hard to do or and as really has practice it does take practice
often when i hear speech i hear i hear speech as an attack i experienced it as attack often very early in what someone is saying and it's very hard for me and let you are saying and suzuki roshi
is realizing that's just my opinion my opinion is this is an an attack and that puts it in a very different perspective
and at the same time to actually do that but it just seems takes tremendous strength and on
and because it's is movie okay what they say is in my opinion and attack and that is simply my opinion but it could also be that the wrong because it's their opinion of up to leave both pas
abilities open and available
it seems necessary in a sense to really say okay that's just their opinion i can hear it maybe the wrong maybe the run on so it takes a tremendous strength like i think a suzuki roshi thing about the tree that can just stand up without a support
so just that really struck me so anything you can say about that
the to will find a that kind of strength were that actually would be possible now is the thing is we're not scanning we we need to stand on her own two feet but we're not standing alone ah and we stand
because all the buddhas and bodhisattvas are helping us stand otherwise you couldn't do that ah and
the idea in listening is
listen now
you know this open yourself now which is not to say never have an opinion about something but get your opinion out of the way now so you can really observe in here know
he knew it to start it is very difficult
yeah thank you very much
thank you drove ago and with team please go ahead
thank you our allen i am appreciated that he talked to me felt like it was less about what people should and should not do and more about one hour practice causes to desire i appreciate
that that approach and on it there were a couple other things that it brought up for me as that
yeah we're we're a lot of different cultures even in the united states there's different cultures and we deal and engage with things differently in different things on mean different things to us and on it you know that that you talked about our practice is not to be committed to
opinion but our our practice is about
working with someone or working with people are fellow fellow song and members to try to ah
think about powered speech actually lands on someone i know that there was talk about free speech and what i sorta started realizing as theirs for me there's free speech and there's costly speech and i have to make a choice sometimes between which of those
i'm going to move forward west and it's been a a a not necessarily an easy easy shifter an easy way to think about things
but that that's how it's helped me a lot that the other thing i wanted to bring up as my godson to seventeen has been in a fair amount of trouble lately because of his speech and one of the things that that we have talked about his
who wants to be that guy or you know that person and that's one of the ways because i really would is an uninsured your see who wants to be that guy that person who says something that is costly speech because i'll be damned i'm gonna have my free speech i'm going
say what i want
and one the things that came up while talking to him was well you can say it because you believe it's true but you need to be prepared for the impact it's gonna have and it's it's talking about practice with him and the vowels didn't really go so far because that's not what he does but when i said to him do you really
wanna be that guy the one who says something and people are like well don't want to go near that and that had an impact on him and i use that now in my own mind as is when i'm you know other than trying to not speak so quickly but to
think about what i'm saying and to use that as well so it's been a been a big very big helpful thing for me in getting past the you know it's true so i'm okay with saying it concept to thank you can you will that will the things that are
that is clarify the the conference claim and also in the buddhist text about ah
so-called truth is not enough but i really like your distinction between
free speech and costly speech and made this is too abstract but this is attention in our society and it's a creative tension it's a good tension that
there's a tension between freedom
which is a seen as individual freedom and ah aren't and justice our collective you know whatever or attempted the agreed upon social values or this is this has been attention this is what it was aren't you
about in the are in the federalist papers from the beginning it's a little and it's it's not something we will want to get rid of but we have constantly to do so thank you
a few days we have our last question rise please go ahead
after are good morning to than i am i really appreciated just a gold fields ah
tag of not speaking about them would not present in the room i know but for myself that i get it sort of trouble a he the appraising are blaming others in that in the venue and the same time i believe that he probably took moments to quote his teacher
you may not have been in the room and it reminded me of a bumper sticker that we had here are some time ago what would melt do or so did roshi a i think with he was thing that i have copies of that neither way to which are available with filament watson
so i can attack of him smoke
my question is
a for you as a rabbit what comes out in the from that bumper sticker what would what would melt do what would my address been a preceptor do in this case had a you work with that even out here it is here go
i actually think about it all the time
and arm

i am very interested in
bringing to mind what i think he might do
ah as a pup
has a point of departure
not that eyewitness not that i feel obligated to you to that position to that to that action but to really think about it and recognize that ah
the essential things that i think many of us learn from him would the accumulated wisdom of so many years of practice and to respect that and also feel
the i carry some responsibility to that so i i think about it you know and are
this is in one of things lori and i have been doing a
is we've been reading aloud ah from the manuscript that ah ron and chica and sojourn assembled of his lectures and that really keeps his voice fresh
i feel that
i want a study that
a long ways or as surgeon used to stood in lecture from his teacher i think this is gonna be a this is a ah just a deep spring for all of us ah
because all that wisdom is there
great and i don't
just as i didn't expect him to beeper perfect
ah i don't expect myself to be perfect but
i feel obligated to go back to the same
sources or to try to understand what the sources word that he
came from
that's personal and i think yeah yeah thank you i think this is where we we have to