Good morning. It's a beautiful summer morning and the early fog that we've been having for the last week or so seems to have burned off earlier and so the sun is out. And happy to be with you here in the Zendo and out there in Radioland. First, I want to acknowledge we have an old friend of Berkeley Zen Center as a guest here today.

[01:47]

I'm really happy to welcome Diane Roseto, who is the founder and the Abbot Emeritus, which I didn't realize of the Bay Zen Center, which she's a dormant heir of Charlotte Joko Beck and is a teacher in the Ordinary Mind Zen School. And I will say that I remember Diane from the early 1980s when I came here. And my recollection is that you were Sesshin director for a time, and I think you were the first, my first Sashin director. And so I looked up to her as an elder, and I still really respect her for her teaching and her writing.

[02:54]

And, you know, he's sitting right in front of the other person that I remember in this room from that time, Ron Hester. So thank you for visiting. I remember that Diane once questioned Mel about, let's always talk about the incorrect, because you went through a phase of the incorrect law using the correct law. So that's what I remember about Diane. Right. Well, now we're all incorrect. And she's on a buswoman's holiday today. So, We have begun to put out word and take registration for a program that we're going to be doing this year and hopefully next year at Berkley Zen Center, which is called Many Communities One Sangha, exploring the realities of equity and inclusion.

[04:01]

And I'm gonna, I'm not giving a sales pitch. because actually that's not necessary. We put out the word on the list, I think two days ago, and we're already close to halfway subscribed for the registrations that we can take for this year. But I wanted to talk a little about how we are doing this, why we're doing this, and why I see this as a deep expression of our dharma practice. So I think that for many of us, the murder of George Floyd in May of 2020 was a kind of watershed event, even though there have been

[05:03]

terrible violations of human rights of African-American people and others before that event. And since that event, there was something about the murder of George Floyd and the fact that it was all recorded and those who wished or didn't wish to witness it saw it on the news. And it was a turning point in I think in our society and a wake up call for something that had long been the case. In 1903, W.E.B. Du Bois, in his book, The Souls of Black Folk, wrote that the problem of the 20th century is the problem of the color line. And in that case, he was talking about not just discrimination and racism in the United States, but the effects of colonialism in Africa, Asia, South America.

[06:14]

And very soon he reflected and he expanded that to really include all kinds of all the aspects of discrimination. And I think that, you know, I keep, I look at the world through a Dharma lens. You know, even if I'm looking at systems and what I, what one might think of as political systems, I try to look at it through the lens of the Buddhist teachings. And in a sense, the, The discrimination that Du Bois was speaking about, which I think we all have some awareness of, is really what we speak to directly in the seventh of the Bodhisattva Pure Mind Precepts.

[07:25]

The prohibitive side, prohibitory side of that is the vow of not to praise self at the expense of others. And then the affirmation side that we chant when we have bodhisattva ceremony in our various ordinations is the vow to maintain modesty or humility, putting others first. And Thich Nhat Hanh in his gloss on the seventh precept speaks of it as a full inclusiveness, including everyone and everything. And so I think that if I look at what Du Bois was saying, I can understand that through the lens of the seventh precept, to include everyone in equality, in the equality of our true nature, which despite the differences that we have in our abilities, in our lives,

[08:57]

as in essence every being is equal in true nature, in Buddha nature. So in response to these rising circumstances and concerns, And listening to the voices of, particularly of people of color in our Sangha, who had surprising stories to tell about painful experiences that they may have had here. And that painful experiences that many of us have had in this area about

[09:57]

of really of communication. A group of senior students and long-term practitioners and some people from the informal BIPOC group came together and we've been meeting almost weekly for two years. Really with the question, with the first question of just what is it we can do that would facilitate open and constructive communications and help ourselves and help each other to be more free from the snares of our views which are deeply patterned and often understandably unconscious. So This group, we've come to call it the culture change committee.

[11:04]

And I know that that pushes buttons for some people. And I'm gonna speak to shortly, I wanna speak to what culture is and what changes. But the gist of it is to, we meant to try to find a way based on our wish to deepen communication among members. and also how skillfully to be able to include and express different views and to bring healing energy to sometimes unseen injuries between people in the community and then to be able to develop these skills so we can use them in our wider world, use them in our families, use them in our workplaces and our, the other communities we inhabit.

[12:07]

And it's important to understand that this is actually work that is going on in a lot of other Sanghas, particularly Zen Sanghas. But I know because I meet regularly with the, with the, with the Abbots and senior practice leaders from San Francisco Zen Center, from Brooklyn Zen Center, Houston, Austin, Zen Mountain Center, Mount Tremper, which was Dido Lurie's place now led by Shug and Arnold. And all of them are engaged in processes like this. And they are challenging. because they're hard. And it's hard to have a discussion about differences. It's hard to have discussions about race. But this seems like the moment, you know, as Du Bois said, the problem of the 20th century is the problem of the color line.

[13:18]

And here we are pretty well into the 21st century and we still have these issues. And we can see the kind of fear and strife that emerged. I think that in many ways, the insurgency that occurred in January of 2021 in Washington was about race. It was about fear of privilege. And that's coming out in the testimony, it's coming out in the rhetoric of the people who came armed for bear to Washington then. So this is really live in us. It's not dividing our sangha in a really

[14:24]

harsh way, but it's underlying the society that we live in. And so what we've done is we talked around to a lot of people, people in different sanghas, leaders of sanghas, and some of our teachers of color. And what we discovered is that it was a program that was sort of piloted by I think through San Francisco Zen Center and the East Bay Meditation Center that was designed by Mushi Makeda, who has spoken here. She's a long-term Zen practitioner and one of the, she's really a leader at the East Bay Meditation Center. Crystal Johnson, who I don't know, but She is a European-American woman, I believe.

[15:30]

And she was instrumental. And then Rhonda McGee, who is African-American, she's a lawyer and also Zen practitioner. Her practice began in Thich Nhat Hanh's community. And in the last years, she's She's been practicing with Upaya Zen Center, where she is, she has become what's called a Dharma holder, which is actually something I'm thinking about. This is equivalent to what we call lay entrusted, you know, people who are wearing green rakasus, And I like that term Dharma holder. And so she's a Upaya Dharma holder and I really trust her because I've had the opportunity to work with her in the Upaya chaplaincy program over the last few years.

[16:38]

So we talked with her and we found that the Soto Zen Buddhist Association of which Sojin was one of the founders, and I am a recent past president, had taken this work that Zen Center and East Bay Meditation Center had piloted and turned it into a program. And we talked with them and what we're doing is a version of this program and we're the first place that is trying it out. So we're going to do basically an 11 months program, which will include about two hours of work a month. And there'll be small group sessions that will alternate with five in-person sessions with Rhonda, which is just like a great opportunity.

[17:50]

I think people really like working with her and live a chance. She's going to give the Dharma talk on November 6th, I believe. 8th? 8th. Yeah. Anyway, she has a wonderful, gentle way. And I've seen her work at Upaya and it worked very well. So anyway, we're beginning this program and I just want to express my support for this program. And my hope that our participation will ultimately help us communicate more effectively, not just on issues of race or diversity, but across the board, areas where it's hard for us to communicate openly sometimes.

[19:00]

That's just difficulties that we may have as individuals, I do. I don't see taking on this program as it's not a critique. of the practice that we've had for all these years at BCC. I think it's a way of extending it, of sustaining and deepening that practice and of helping us as bodhisattvas be fully available to the world. So I want to come back to this question of culture change. what it means and maybe what it doesn't mean. Briefly to touch on the word culture, there's a really an excellent definition of culture that comes from the teacher and psychotherapist Resma Menachem in his

[20:21]

really wonderful book, My Grandmother's Hands. And what he says is, culture is how our bodies retain and reenact history. Through the foods we eat or refuse to eat, the stories we tell, the things that hold meaning for us, the images that move us, what we are able and unable to sense or feel or process the way we see the world and a thousand other aspects of life. I think that's a great functioning definition of culture. And in that sense, I think the way I understand it is that culture is something that is held by each of us. And the places of resonance and congruence among ourselves is where it broadens from this individual basis of experience to shared experiences.

[21:33]

So all of us have multiple cultures that we belong to. And some of it is seen to us, some of it is not so seen to us. Some of it emerges only in contrast. Sometimes, you know, what my experience is, I've seen, I've often had a clearer vision of my culture by entering other cultures where it's really different. And it's not better. And it's not worse. It's just people have different things that they share. So, you know, I think that across the various, the migration of Dharma that has happened in 2,500 years of Buddhism, it has moved.

[22:49]

through different cultures and entered different cultures and created cultures of its own. The culture of Indian Buddhism is quite different than the culture of Chinese Buddhism. In Chinese Buddhism, they took about 300 years to translate the Dharma into their own vernacular. And that became something, something new that was rooted in something old. So it didn't discard what it came before, but it adapted it so that it fit the broader culture of,

[23:50]

So that comes to the change part. And again, I see change through the lens of the Dharma. So to me, change is the first principle when we articulate the three marks of existence. impermanence. It's not just a good idea, it's the law. And that's the first mark of existence, impermanence, non-self, and depending on how you experience those two, dukkha, suffering. If you resist,

[24:53]

impermanence and non-self, you're invariably going to suffer. If you can embrace and include them, then the third mark of existence is founded. Quite a number of the Mahayana texts is nirvana. Nirvana is really accepting that things change and accepting that we do not hold a fixed self, that the self is always changing. And the self is made of non-self elements. So Buddhism, when it began, what the Buddha really emphasized was a kind of transformative

[25:58]

individual process. And, you know, from my perspective, I've thought about this a lot and I find it very interesting. What was true in the Buddha's time is that almost every aspect of one's life was socially determined, was determined on the basis of your gender, your caste, your occupation, your tribal affiliation or group affiliation, and all these factors. And you were born into all of these elements of what we call culture. And in many ways, they were quite inflexible. And so if you were born into a certain position, status, set of roles, your duty was to live out that life, you know, and if you were good in that life, maybe you could get a better life the next time.

[27:20]

You know, maybe you could be born, you know, if you're born a woman, maybe you could be born a man next time, much better. right? Or you could born in a higher caste, or you could have a better occupation. And what the Buddha said, which is interesting, was this is what was radical about what he was offering was, no, it has nothing to do, your value, your worth as an individual has nothing to do with birth. And he very explicitly said this in the early citrus. that we talked about what is a Brahman. A Brahman was the priestly caste and it was noble and kind of the elite. He said, one is not a Brahman by virtue of birth. One is a Brahman by virtue of action. So what he was introducing

[28:25]

was a kind of radical individualism, which was really unique and it changed the culture. So by creating a community of people who were committed to these values that were radical in their time, he was overturning older patterns of belief and practice. And that means that his Sangha included all castes. His Sangha very shortly in its development included women. And it was open to anyone who wanted to do Buddhist practice. And this changed India for more than a thousand years, Buddhist culture was the dominant culture in India.

[29:35]

And when you go to India, you can see the caves, you can see the monasteries, you know, and that was the circumstance of culture. It was a culture change, which then got there was resistance and pushback for a variety of reasons, including invasion, including the fact that the way Buddhism evolved did not really offer practice for ordinary people. So only the option that you had for really deepening your practice was to become a monk or a nut, which was obviously not for not for all that many people. And so Buddhism faded in India. It's coming back now.

[30:36]

But it's coming back now among those who are most depressed. So we see it, it's coming back among the Dali, the ex-untouchables, our friends who we see in Zazen every morning. And also it's coming back among the Tibetans, who face exile and genocide. So it's become a refuge to people who are most oppressed. In China, it's shifted again. So rather than depending upon the alms that were given by lay people when monks went out on their morning rounds in China, you had the development of monasteries that were self-stating and where everyone worked and they were farming and they were independent then to some degree of the mechanisms of the state.

[31:47]

And they also, as I said, they translated Buddhism into accessible cultural forms. And they also found ways to bring Buddhism in China and then in Japan, bring Buddhism into the daily life of people. So people would have altars on their, you know, at home and they would locate their revered ancestors as part of this tradition. So again, it was a culture change. that somehow integrated the Confucian values of China into what then became the Dharma. And there were similar motions when Buddhism crossed from China to Japan. What's interesting that many of you don't know about,

[32:57]

is in Soto Zen. I didn't discover this until I was there because they don't talk about it very much. But there was a caste system in Japan. And in many ways, the Buddhist temples were functioned as kind of the institutions of civil society. It wasn't a wide bureaucracy that spread to the country. So the temples, everybody, people and villages had to register with their temple. And they registered, they had to register their name and their background. And this was a way of uncovering the caste and perhaps ethnic background of people in their communities. And there was tremendous discrimination. Discrimination against the group who were known as the Barakumin. And in the late 70s, what you had was the development of Barakamin Liberation Organization, sort of in keeping with kinds of movements that were happening in the West.

[34:10]

And they launched campaigns against, you know, calling Buddhist orders to account. And Soto Zen, responded. And one of their major areas since the since the 80s has been what they call human rights, looking at the school's conscious and unconscious attitudes toward towards the these marginalized peoples. And I was interested while I was at one day all the monks disappeared. And when we asked about that, it seems that every day, every year, monks in monasteries have to participate in a human rights unlearning discrimination workshop.

[35:20]

That's part of the training of a monk that's part of the training of monks who are gonna take on the temple so that they can really root out this kind of discrimination. And they're, you know, they found that this had crept into many of the, many of the publications, many of the regulations that they had for membership in Sotoshu, and they have structurally tried to root it out. So that's an inspiration to me. So we come to the United States, and Buddhism is very new on this continent. And all of our teachers predicted that and hoped that it would change, adapt, evolve.

[36:29]

And that's happening. You know, most of the cultures that Buddhism has been in before were essentially, largely homogeneous. And that is not the American experiment. We are a nation that recognizes many different cultures. And we are involved in a project that includes them, even though that project is flawed, even though it has backward steps and forward steps. I feel like that's the American democratic project. And the growing pains that we may experience in our Sangha or that we're experiencing in Buddhism at large, they are simply the growing pains of a society that is being invited to challenge itself

[37:48]

to challenge to grow beyond patriarchy, to grow beyond white supremacy. And in a way, I see that we each have to do our individual work. But again, the way cultures form is by sharing our work and by communicating. And so this is very much, I think, In many ways it resembles what we see in Buddhist time, this project of inclusiveness. So I think we're being invited to, for each of us to at least look at what we call our culture. look at our points of resonance internally and make an effort to open to aspects of life that we don't fully see or that we have some anxiety about.

[39:09]

But I think that this ground for change It's our practice. Our practice is about engaging with ourselves and becoming free from our habitual patterns. And the context for this is that we do this together. People in this room, the people out there in Zoom land, we've been practicing, we have this great It's such an amazing thing that we're doing. So many of us have been here for so many years. And so this is, each of us has our individual views, our individual concerns, but this is something that the practice is something that we share. And so we know that we sit down

[40:12]

And we turn the light inward to study ourself, to study our strengths and our weaknesses, our internal formations and our aspirations. And we glimpse, and some of us know very well, that our individual self is completely entwined with our social self and society at large. I've been, this week, Carol and Hannah and I were studying a fascicle of dogens, we were studying Twining Vines. And that's, it's about how the, the, Buddha meeting Buddha is twining vines and that to me is our aspiration.

[41:19]

So I know that there may be questions about what I'm presenting, questions about this program and feelings. Feelings are completely understandable, necessary, and fair to express. We are planning, the Culture Change Committee is planning to have an open community meeting on Sunday, September 11th, I believe. And that'll be an opportunity to share discussion and also to share information and also to share discussions and share feelings and those details will go out on the website and list. And meanwhile, if you feel called to take part in this program, that's great.

[42:28]

And if you want to stand back and wait and see, that's also totally fine. I just want to invite us all to trust everyone's good heart and everyone's Bodhisattva intentions. So we have some time for questions and discussion and I will call on you. I'll call on people in the room. And I'll call on people, I'll look at the participants list and see if you have digitally raised hands online. And I'd like to encourage people who are in the room, if you have a question, please speak up and speak clearly.

[43:32]

And I will check to see that, see if your question was audible to people. online, so do your best. So thank you, and the floor is open. Is there anyone in the room at the moment? Sue. Thank you, Hozan. Do you think people can hear me? Can people hear Sue? There's a lot of thumbs up. Oh good, I've started off good and we'll see how that goes. I was very impressed with the announcement that came out. I actually haven't read it through yet, but the beauty of it and the first part of the invitation was so welcoming that I'm now ready to go home and actually read it and compare it to my calendar.

[44:36]

So, and thank you for the talk. If people are not on the listserv, how do they get that information? The website. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Let's see. I saw a hand up here. Now I'm not seeing it. EJI has his hand up. Oh, okay. It's weird. Oh, I see. Yeah. Go ahead. Good to see you. Great. Thank you so much for your talk. You mentioned something about, and it wasn't, I didn't get it clearly in my mind, but you were articulating example of how, more specifically, you said everyone left the Sangha to go to a certain training at a certain time. And I was just trying to get my fingers around what exactly, what that was.

[45:38]

Yeah. Yeah, if you could say something about that. Thank you very much for your talk. Yeah, thank you. Very powerful. Thank you. Thank you so much. Well, I was in Japan doing a special training for Westerners. And we were at one of the training monasteries, a place called Zuyoji. And what happened was that one day all the Japanese monks were gone. and they were gone for the weekend. They were gone because they were, they were taking a, they were expected to take an annual human rights non-discrimination course that was, that's established by Sotoshu, the Soto headquarters. And so that's where they were, which was news to me because we had, you know, we don't hear anything. about that in the West.

[46:41]

But they've had to root out this deeply, this deep discrimination that was systemic in Japanese Buddhism. And this is what they're doing. I don't know that it's perfect, but it's really different than what than the situation in the 70s. So that's what it's talking about. Thank you. Yeah. Yoni. I was wondering if you could tell us what the format of this group is gonna be like. Is it gonna be a council format or are there gonna be lectures? Maybe. Mary or Karen could speak to that loudly and clearly? Sure.

[47:43]

Maybe I'll mask down. The course that this Zen Buddhist Association has created is a self-guided course that includes video reading and discussion format, which we are organizing small groups to attend. groups between 5 and 10. So, the format of that would be a hybrid of being person and online both, if we could figure out that. And watching videos, doing some breakout groups, doing discussion. So hang on, I've got to repeat this, because not everyone is hearing. There'll be The essential format would be small groups, maybe five to 10 people that will meet every month.

[48:45]

Every other month. Every other month. And it will be hybrid, some in person, some in Zoom, and working with the materials that have been presented in terms of readings and videos that are part of the program that's been designed. Yes. And alternating with that, in the alternate months, we'll all meet together, but also include a hybrid option with Rhonda McGee for an experiential, and I don't have the format, but she, in her book, talks about journaling and breakout groups and so forth. So it really is trying to put into practice, give us an opportunity to practice the skills that we're aiming to develop in real time. So on alternate months, the whole group will meet again online and with, and on Zoom with Rhonda McGee to do basically experiential work, journaling exercises so that they'll have, so that it won't just be work in the head, it'll be work in the body.

[50:02]

Karen, did you want anything? Okay, does that, Did that answer the question at the moment? It was Yoni's question. Oh, it was Yoni's question. Never mind. Okay. Did I answer your question? Thank you. Any questions out there? Or in here? Yeah, Carol. I have a question. Since we're going to have it on Zoom, I'm assuming people that are not part of our Sangha could come, as well as even if we had friends that we thought were interested, is that so? Well, if we want to stay with our... I would like to, I'm not defining this, but I would prefer to stay with our Sangha, because there are not so many places, and it's like we're experimenting with this, and this is, I see it as a Sangha building,

[51:05]

is that Karen and Mary who are lining their heads. Okay, thank you. Joel. Yeah, thank you very much, Hosang. It's a very wonderful and beautiful and necessary project. I was very grateful that in the beginning you really emphasized the seventh precept of not praising self and putting down others um and um i'd love if you could enlarge on the way you view that personally i've felt often that that's a crucial precept regarding this dialogue and that probably all of us have violated that precept i've been feeling myself that um All these labels are terrible. On the quote-unquote progressive side, from progressive people, I've felt a lot of crazing self and putting down others, which, in my experience, has made dialogue very difficult often.

[52:21]

And so I'm really glad that you brought up that particular precept. And as I say, I think we all violate it. But if you could, you know, more. Sure. I think what you're pointing to is, um, and, you know, I've been guilty of it. I've seen it, uh, you know, in going back to my entire, uh, history as an activist is how we can get, how one can get trapped in righteousness. And I, I think that's what you're talking and righteousness is praising yourself at the expense of others. Exactly. I think that this effort is an attempt to really ground us in equality and not in righteousness. And, you know, we will do the best we can. But I trust that.

[53:23]

You know, I know the people who designed this program. I know Rhonda and I know us. And I think that even if I or someone else might fall into that, I'm willing to acknowledge it, step back from it and correct my course. And I hope that all of us could do that. I see Helen's hand and that might be the last question for the day. Helen. Good morning. Morning. Our internet cut out for a moment, so I don't know if you covered this. Did you mention that there's going to be an info session? Yes. Oh, okay. Yeah, I did. Thank you. It's going to be on September 11th and Sunday, September 11th.

[54:26]

So that still leaves time. If people are still kind of thinking about registering and if they're still any places left. Karen's got her hand up. Yeah. The invitation includes some people to contact if you would like to ask questions to some of the organizers. Right. So the invitation includes a couple of contact people if you want to ask questions about the program before that. we can come together in a community meeting on September 11th and both share questions, information, and also share feelings, concerns, appreciation, any of that. So good. Thank you all. Thank you for listening. Thank you for your practice and for being here and

[55:28]

uh uh enjoy it the rest of the day i'm gonna go out and play some music this afternoon which is like i can't believe i'm doing that so very happy about that thank you berkeley zen center and welcome to the online people uh welcome in particular to new people um i'm diane i'm one of the saturday co-directors or the co-saturday director yes i'm sharing this job with pauline and here are the announcements for today this coming morning leslie bartholick will give away seeking mind talk

[59:04]

Next Saturday, Laurie Sanaki will deliver the lecture. Registration is now open for Aspects of Practice, which begins on September the 10th. The theme will be the Eightfold Path. Please check the website for fees and registration details and direct questions to Karen Suntime, ksundheim, at gmail.com. BCC will offer a coming-of-age program for young people interested in Zen practice on Sundays beginning September 11th. For details, contact Marie Hopper, Marie underscore Hopper at sbcglobal.net, or check the website. The Wednesday drop-in online group meets from 7 to 8.30 p.m., The group particularly welcomes newcomers to Zen practice.

[60:07]

For more information, contact Ikushin Jerry Oliva, and her email is in the chat link. For more information about our programs, please see the bulletin board outside or visit berkeleyzencenter.org. For a list of links of current and recurring programs, please see the bulletin board or check the chat in Zoom. To make a donation to support BCC, please use the donations box, which is out in the courtyard, or visit our website and go to the generosity tab. If you've been attending for a while and are interested in learning about membership options, check the Bulletin Board or in the Zoom chat, the membership contact information under links for recurring activities. For those in the Zendo, please maintain silence until you are off the porch. Then feel free to socialize in the courtyard.

[61:09]

Those online may now unmute and greet one another. Hi, everyone. Thank you. Thank you, Hosan. Great talk. Thank you, Hosan. Thank you, Diane. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning, everyone. Have a good week.

[61:38]

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