I vow to taste the truth of the Sagata's words. Good morning. Good morning. It's a nice breezy summer morning. Today I'm going to be basing my talk on some stories from the life of Zen teacher Tosan, who is together with his disciple Zosan are the two founders of the Soto school. And we are in the Soto lineage, this Zen center here. And so Soto comes from, actually it's in reverse.

[01:08]

First comes Tosan, then comes Sosan. But since Soto rhymes better than Toso, that's how we get Soto. Actually, it's interesting because I'm originally from Chile. And in Chile, Soto is like the name Smith, you know, it's the most common Spanish name there. Anyway, the lineage of Tozan comes from the sixth ancestor, Winang, or Ino, and then from him to Seigen, and Sekito, then Yakusan, Ungan, and then who was Tosan's teacher. And I'm going to be basing it, the stories come from the book by Charles Luke, Chan and Zen Teaching, which is kind of a classical Zen text.

[02:21]

And And first I want to just say a few words of introduction. Many of these classical Zen books, likewise with Koan books, are difficult to access, I think for most of us. And we have to get through a certain barrier to really penetrate the text and have the meaning of it come forth and evoke something within us that also then comes forth and then there's a meeting between the reader and the text and the transmission of the wheel of the Dharma is turned in. Aside from our usual state of mind of maybe a little drowsiness or sleepiness, which is one of the obstacles we encounter when sitting down to read sometimes, there is the, I think, there is the, I think,

[03:57]

Um, which I think for us, uh, Westerners, if I may say so, um, which we come with this heavy baggage of intellect, we may find these texts boring because they don't entertain or stimulate actually the intellect. So it's very easy to start reading it and then put it down. And because it doesn't stimulate our intellect and stimulate further thought, if anything it sort of brings our thought to a halt. And then that halt is very frustrating indeed. At least that's my experience with the text sometimes. And, you know, we come, our recent history in the West was one of, you know, we have a very developed intellectual function.

[05:26]

So we're kind of top-heavy. And so that right there, there's kind of a cultural incongruence or a barrier that needs to be pierced through. And Zan really discourages intellectual discourse. or intellectual understanding. And for some critics even would say it's really a repression of the intellect. Don't give rise to it. Don't discriminate. And the whole Western culture since the 18th century was about rebelling against the traditional religious culture of giving putting faith and intuition above reason, saying, well that's really hindering the development of science.

[06:38]

So we went into this orgy of intellect and science. And yet then we encountered something like Zen, which brings us back to something more fundamental or original than the intellect. So I think, at least for me, that's one barrier that needs to be overcome. And the second one is also one having to do with the culture and the language and the style. And, you know, a lot of these stories are full of reference and allusions to Chinese history and sayings of the time and so on and so forth.

[07:46]

And if you don't know those references, then it's also more difficult to penetrate the meaning. Because the Buddha Dharma is embedded within those forms. And you can't separate the essence from the form. Or it's the universality of the Buddhadharma expressed through that cultural particularity. And then finally there's the monastic context, which I think for a lot of lay people, we're not used to a monastic kind of context or culture. And these are the forms through which the Buddhadharma is transmitted in the stories.

[08:57]

So we have to put all this aside to be able to really understand what our practice is all about. And for a while, I myself, this layperson, struggled a lot with, you know, I thought, zen is oriental and like most of us we think well we have to acculturate it or express it through some kind of western format or vehicle that's a very easy thing to think about so then I thought well you know if we have the Zen practice on the one hand, how about putting that together with Western concepts and forms?

[10:08]

And as you have Western theory and Zen practice. And that was kind of a nice idea, but it doesn't quite work that way. It didn't actually quite work for me. So we have to, as our teacher Mel often says, we have to go beyond ideas about East and West to really receive this teaching and really pay our debts to the ancestors, our debts of gratitude And one of these stories, Tosan says there are four debts of gratitude we have to pay.

[11:15]

And one is to our parents for bringing us into this world. And the other one is to all sentient beings who have helped us along the way. And the third one is to the government for creating some kind of social order and social peace that allows for the practice to happen. Otherwise, it may not happen. There were times when this kind of practice was forbidden. You couldn't do it. And then the fourth one is the debt to the ancestors. And yet finally you have to wipe all that out and just, we have to find our own independence, our own Buddha nature, which doesn't rely on anything or any form of debt consciousness.

[12:30]

which can be a kind of guilty consciousness that may hinder our independence. Okay, so I'm going to read some of the stories. One day Sepul came forward and brought his two palms together to salute the Master who said, The entry into the door should be put into words, but you cannot say that you are already in it.

[13:46]

the entry into the door should be put into words that means how do we put into words or how to respond to the question what do you practice why do we practice why do I practice or what are we doing here or when we're practicing and then somebody asks, well, why do you practice? It's the most common thing. My father's in town this week. He lives in Chile. I don't see him very often. And he always asks me the same question. And my answer doesn't really satisfy him. Just, why do you do this? Or what do you get out of it? What do you get out of it?" And obviously he doesn't think I'm getting anything out of it.

[15:02]

And his first inclination is to tell me all the things that I'm doing wrong. If I only would have listened to him more, I wouldn't need the Buddha Dharma. So the entry into the door should be put into words. But then how do we put it into words? Because you cannot say that you are already in it. So how do you put it into words in a way that it's not dualistic? or doesn't express it as something that you have, or doesn't express it in terms of attainment.

[16:07]

So Seppo replied, so the question of the Master was the entry to the door should be put into words, but you cannot say that you are already in it. So Seppo replied, I have no mouth. And then Tosan said, replied, I want you to restore my eyes. So not only doesn't he have any words, he doesn't have a mouth. to speak the words. And this sort of playing with one another, because Tosan says he doesn't have eyes either. No eyes, no ear, no nose, no mouth, no tongue, and so on, as the Heart Sutra says.

[17:14]

So he doesn't discriminate with his eyes. So he has no eyes. And that's it. And Sepo didn't say anything in reply. So that's just one transaction right there. Which doesn't seem to say much. So you could say, well, they're really not saying anything. And yet they are. And then a monk asked Tozan, if the diligent and constant wiping of dust did not ensure the inheritance of the robe and bowl, who was really qualified for them? And they're talking about here the fifth ancestor giving the bowl to the sixth ancestor, Huineng.

[18:23]

And that's the story that we all know about the fifth ancestor asked for the community to write a poem. And so the head monk wrote a poem, something like, well, the practice is to just, the mind is this mirror, And all the practice, all we have to do with the practice is just wipe it clean, wipe the dust, be constantly wiping off the dust from the mirror. So it's kind of mind cleaning, mind washing practice. So Zazen has an aspect of that, which is the dust or these thoughts, which create worlds, which create the world.

[19:30]

They're put into action, things are constructed on their basis and so on and so forth, both good and bad. And so we're sitting and thoughts arise we notice them and we let them go and come back to the breath. So going back to the breath is the wiping the mirror clean. But the Winang's poem said, in response to that poem, well, there's really no mirror. So if there's really no mirror, How could any dust alight on it? So there's nothing to wipe. So if the diligent and constant wiping of the dust did not ensure the inheritance of the robe and bowl, who was really qualified for them?

[20:48]

So that wasn't it, the diligent and constant wiping of dust. The master replied, one who did not enter the door. So that goes back to the entry into the door. You'd say one who did not enter the door is One who did not have a dualistic idea of practice as dust wiping, because that can very easily turn into a dualistic view of good and bad. The good is wiping and the bad is the dust. And the practice is to create this bright mirror. from a dusty mirror.

[21:58]

So one who did not enter the door is like not having fixed ideas about what practice is or dualistic ideas about practice. And so how do we respond in a dualistic way, in a non-dualistic way? when we ask that question, what are you doing? What's this for? Is it doing you any good? Aren't you wasting your time after all these years? Nothing's really coming out of it. And so on and so forth. And then the monk asked, did one who did not enter the door really win them? So is there still a residue that if you have a non-dual understanding of it, of the mirror as empty, then that's the way to win?" And Tosin replied, in spite of this, the robe and bowl could not be refused him.

[23:08]

Tozin again said, the mere saying that essentially there's not a thing did not qualify the speaker for winning the robe and bowl. Try to say who was qualified for them. Just try to say that. Here one should know how to turn one's words. tell me what words can be turned so uh... the mere saying that essentially there's not a thing did not qualify the speaker uh... that uh... uh... that we can't rely either on a concept of emptiness or nothingness to say that's the Dharma, because emptiness and form cannot be separated.

[24:26]

Emptiness is form, and form is emptiness. On one occasion, Tozin said, only one who understands the Buddha's transcendental plane can express it in words and phrases. So you can try to turn words, and there's an example here of a monk who tried 96 times to turn the words. and finally succeeded in giving satisfaction to Tosa.

[25:34]

And he said, why did you say that earlier? Why did it take you so long? So then the monk asked, well, what are words and phrases? And Tosa said, when words and phrases are spoken, the venerable friend does not hear them. The monk asked, does the venerable master hear them? So if a friend is not listening, is the master listening? And Tosan replied, I hear when they're not spoken. So even though sometimes our words may be off target and not be really it.

[26:42]

And we're communicating something else aside from what the words were saying to each other, for good and for bad. So finally the monk asked, what is the Buddha's transcendental path? And Tosan replied, it's not the Buddha's. So, since there's nothing there that can be fully expressed in words

[28:09]

Well, there's no one there to realize it. And the only way to express it is, you know, ordinary activities. And which is another characteristic of Zen practice. Just expressing then this teaching or this understanding, you know, ordinary. daily activities. And this Tosan calls the birth's path. And the birth's path is the one that leaves no traces. A monk asked Tosan, usually you taught students to tread the bird's path. What is the bird's path? And Tosan replied, where you meet no one.

[29:19]

And the monk asked, how can you tread it? The master replied, your feet should be entirely free from egoism. This last week, I took a vacation to be the whole week with my children. I have two children, a seven-year-old and a three-year-old. So I've been a full-time parent and full-time single parent at that. because my wife and I are separated. And so it's given me, and I hadn't spent so much time with them for almost a year, sort of hour to hour, and doing all the activities with children and feeding and changing and playing and so on.

[30:36]

And children are constantly demanding. I want this, I want that. Would you play with me with this? Would you play with me with that? And the two of them are always getting into fights and fighting about wanting this or wanting that or who started it or who said what and calling each other names. And so there is this kind of master-servant relationship, and it's not clear who's the master and who's the servant. I think most of the time I feel more like a servant. And especially when they call out, I want chocolate milk, or bring me this, or bring me that. And then there's this constant reminder of, well, my role as parent is to be in this position of, well, how about asking please first?

[31:58]

How about not calling your brother names? How about not yelling so hard? And in this position of master, parent, it's very easy to lose it with them. Because they're constantly interrupting you, and you're trying to do two things at the same time, or three things at the same time. You're trying to help them with this, and then all of a sudden the other one wants something else. And they're interrupting what you're saying or what you're doing and so on and so forth so there's this flurry of activity and it's so easy to get angry and lose it and start yelling back and after the second or third time really lose it and it's been interesting for me to watch my process with how do I deal with this

[33:07]

And how do we find the practice right there in that edge, that hot edge of being constantly interrupted and trying to do something and not being able to finish it and having to go to something else or deal with some crisis that emerged about whatever. and also constantly watching them so they don't get hurt. So, how do we find that freedom of practice of not being withdrawn, it's not the selfish kind of Arahant ideal, if you wish, of saying, well, don't bother me, I'm in meditation, or don't disturb my meditation, or when am I going to get some time to meditate, rather than be dealing with you guys.

[34:21]

So how to find the meditation right there on that moment? and not lose it not go astray at that moment of pressure which puts me back myself into being a child myself and it's so easy with our children that they evoke our own child and when they get frustrated then we get frustrated and then all of a sudden we're really no different you know we're both yelling And it reminds me of how frustrated I would get as a child. And we're still now, you know, sometimes when you're going to the door and carrying two or three bags and you can't get the key or the key falls down, you know, and then your back is killing you, holding things.

[35:28]

And So the children, in that moment, those interruptions are like our own thoughts. And our children are born from our own desire. So we like them and we love them when they're nice and they're calm and we can see their original nature. And they're so pure and fresh and so on. And then the next moment they're little demons. And then the next moment they're little angels. And that's constantly changing. And our life is like that.

[36:32]

We're angels in one moment and demons the next moment. So how do we deal with our thoughts in Zazen? And our thoughts are coming at us like our children, like my children are coming at me. like my thoughts, and they're my own wishes. So I only want them when they're nice. So I want those nice thoughts when they're good thoughts, but when they're bad thoughts, then I don't want them. So whether good thoughts or bad thoughts, staying connected to our breath.

[37:39]

And the way I feel it nowadays is just doing it doesn't matter. I've said it three times, I've said it four times, I've said it five times, I just keep saying it. You know, get in and just get being interrupted and keep saying, don't interrupt me. And I know that I'm not going to be interrupted again and that I'm going to say again, don't interrupt me. And that's the way it's going to go. And not expect that this will be the last interruption or that this will be the last time that I will say, don't interrupt me. So this birth path of leaving no traces is just let ourselves be completely killed by the activity. Just total immersion in that activity of taking care of doing this, of being interrupted, of being yelled at, of saying, don't yell, of yelling sometimes and losing it and then

[38:59]

realize that I'm losing it and then get back to the breath. And I think gradually it becomes easier to do that and to go back, back and forth between our formal Zen practice and then And it's realizing how the forms in our daily life are the same thing that we deal with in our zazen or in seshin. Pain in the legs and so on and so forth. Disturbing thoughts. Children are pain in the neck. and you know in usually in Zen stories and there's another story here that I was going to read but I don't think I'm going to have time to do that it's a similar story to the one of climbing to the top of a hundred foot pole and then

[40:25]

What do you do after that? And this one is Tozan asking a student, well, where do you come from? Have you climbed a mountain? Was there anybody there? And who was there to know if there was anybody there? And then did you stay there? Or what did you do? But, you know, in the traditional monastic form, the monks left the world, went into the monastery, severed all those bonds of bondage. And only later, after many years of practice, did they return to the world, jump off the 100-foot pole.

[41:40]

But in lay practice, we're going back and forth all the time. So it's both an opportunity and also a burden. It's a burden because if you don't have the kind of the strong consistent practice it's not so... it's harder to realize the practice in everyday life. Whereas if you concentrate for a long time in very... having a very strict practice in the kind you have in a monastery then you have a very strong sense of practice. So it's harder then to get lost once you're immersed in the hurry and flurry of the world. But on the other hand you're also quite removed from it and you may be so removed that it may be a difficult gap to breach.

[42:46]

So the lay practice provides the opportunity of going back and forth between the two worlds, the two realms, which are really not two. And that's the opportunity of lay practice. So I think that's all I have. What is it that we have? So I'd like to open it up for discussion or questions or anything you would like to say or bring up. Yes? Well, but if you try to figure it out intellectually, it doesn't work.

[44:17]

Then it's just like the mosquito piercing into an iron bull. So we have to drop the discriminating mind to immerse ourselves into practice. And we may choose not to do that. We may think that's not actually correct. And I think I tried that for a long time and it didn't work. And so it's a lesson that may be painfully learned, actually. And so I think we have to put it aside And maybe that's a relative thing, also what do we mean by putting it aside? But concentrate on practice and then, so there's the, I mean, practice is the first principle and the intellect is the second principle, but not the other way around.

[45:26]

So what if your mode of understanding the world, what if your energy is particularly Suffer. Suffer in this realm, in this practice. Yeah, but we all suffer. Yeah, that's true. So, how does a person who has that kind of particularly intellectual energy, do you just throw it away? No, but at least in the realm of practice, put it aside. Not be processing everything through that function. So you just put it aside? Yeah.

[46:31]

Seems like a waste. Can I come? Yes. I think that you can even rationalize or intellectualize putting it aside. I think I've done it while I'm doing it. There are many things about the functioning of our mind that we don't understand. I mean, the majority of things we don't understand. So just put it aside. Well, I do not understand why practice is helping me. That's OK. Just put it aside. Maybe, you know, 100 years of more studies Well, just not try to figure out practice logically by reasoning. Because that, I mean, you can try to do that, you know, and try to figure out practice with Western concepts, philosophy, psychology. I mean, there's an array of theories that you could find similarities with Western teaching and then devote a lot of time to doing that.

[47:44]

But that's not the way to really get it. And I'm sort of speaking on the other side now. It's interesting, you and I have switched. Because you're always telling me what I'm telling you. Putting it aside doesn't mean abandoning it forever, or... It means, to me, who confesses to being an intellectual type of person, not pridefully relying on and insisting on its primacy in directing my decisions, my movements, but having the courage. And it does take courage. If you are, as Ron suggests, a person

[48:46]

very reliant and successful, depending on their intellect, it takes a bit of gumption to put it aside. Gumption? Gumption. To put it far enough aside, it's not actually just fake to put aside, but actually letting it go, even as you sit here. It needs courage, and it needs a lot of practice. Right. So letting it go, but it's also not lost. No, it can't be lost, I think. But your reliance on it, your attachment to it, if you want to use those words, is what needs to be lost. Do you think you could have a light thought Do you mean the thought of enlightenment? No, I think, I mean, that's the backward step.

[49:50]

Enlightened thought is the backward step. If we can step beyond thought, then, in a backward step, then we can have enlightened thoughts. Okay, one more and then we end. I think also, at least for me, who is also an overdeveloped intellect, sometimes it's a matter of not bringing preconceptions from the intellect to the situation, and trying to just listen and take in. A lot of the intellectual function is putting out your own view. And so it's not a question of shutting down the mind, but it's a question of allowing, of listening and just sitting and listening or looking, absorbing from the outside without putting labels and preconceptions and all of that on top of it, right in front of it.

[51:06]

That's very difficult, but I found it helpful. Right. That's really listening or hearing. Greg wanted to say something and then with that we'll end. Well, I just, how could a thought be anything but enlightenment? It could be deluded. Unless you want to say everything is enlightenment, so, that's true. You don't have any more to say. Okay. Is that true? Yeah. But how can thought be a concept of enlightenment if everyone is always in flux? If it becomes a lifestyle, or a present lifestyle, then I can understand, but there's no way a person can be enlightened constantly, can they? Well, to be enlightened within delusion. So, that's neither enlightenment nor delusion.

[52:08]

This is another whole lecture. Thank you. Kings are numberless.

[52:18]

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