I vow to taste the truth of the Tarkhad's words. Good morning. Good morning. Ron tells me that, told me this morning that this weekend is the 15th anniversary of our moving to Russell Street. I didn't remember that. So if I have time, we can talk about that a little bit. But I wanted to clarify our case from yesterday a little bit. It seems like people had different ideas about the case itself, what was actually going on. You can't have it.

[01:13]

Is that the teacher's manual? That's the pony. Only I get to have it. So this is Niyoge and Senzaki's translation and commentary. Short commentary. I always like to look at his commentary. because he always paraphrases everything. So anyway, here's the case. Nansen, Kisu, and Miyoku, three Dharma brothers, went to pay homage to their great-granduncle in the Dharma. On their way, Nansen drew a circle on the ground and said, if you two can say a word about this, I will go with you, I'll continue, okay? If you can say a word about this, I'll continue on with you.

[02:18]

Otherwise, I won't go. So he made the circle, drew a circle on the ground. Kisu sat down in the circle, and Myoku bowed to him. Nansen then said, even though you fellows understand it, I will not go anyway. So even though I said I would go, now that you've done it, I won't go. And then Kisu answered, what are you saying now? Or, what a strange state of mind, or whatever I said yesterday. The koan ends here. So that's it. The rest is all commentary. So here's his commentary.

[03:25]

The sixth ancestor had four successors. Well, he had more than four, but four well-known successors is what he means. One was Nangaku, whose successor was Baso. These three brothers in the story are Baso's disciples. Another disciple of the sixth ancestor was Seigen, who headed the lineage of Sotozen. Nangaku, the Rinzai people trace their lineage to Nangaku, and the Soto people trace their lineage to Seigen. And a third is Yokodashi, the author of the Song of Enlightenment. Someday we'll study that. Zen poems, not exactly a poem.

[04:31]

It's kind of long, long, long poem. And the fourth is the national teacher named Chu, who was the grand uncle in the Dharma mentioned in this story. In their time, Chu was the teacher of the emperor and was considered the most authentic Zen master of the time. So he was the national teacher. Usually the national teacher, although that person is revered, they're usually not the best teacher. You know, like... You know what I mean? So anyway, that doesn't mean he wasn't good. whoever studied Zen must meet him first of all. In other words, everyone was, if you were a real Zen student, you were expected to go see him at some point in your life in order to complete your practice.

[05:37]

So, these three disciples of Baso were going together to see the national teacher. Nansen did not like the idea of visiting Chu for the reason that either Chu was the grand uncle or else because Chu was the emperor's teacher. He didn't like going for those reasons. This is Niyogen's comment. I've never heard it from anybody else. So it could be so. Nansen wanted to test or rather protest to his brothers and so drew the circle on the ground saying whoever expresses Zen in this moment I'll go with him. That circle not only included the grand uncle but also their own teacher Baso and furthermore Bodhidharma and Buddha Shakyamuni and all the ancestors. All the ancestors were included in that circle just like

[06:42]

Each one of us is sitting on a little circle. And all the ancestors are sitting there on this circle with us. Miyoko paid homage as a representative of all sentient beings. In this little drama, this little play, Nansen draws the circle, Kisu sits in the circle, and Myoku bows. And you can see this in various ways. And yesterday, we brought out a lot of the ways that this could be looked at, and I thought that was very good. I thought that your comments were very astute.

[07:45]

Kisu actually could be representing the national teacher. And Miyoku is bowing to the national teacher inside the circle. And that's all they have. They've already done it. Why do they have to go any further? So this is actually true. No need to go anywhere. So this is one of the key aspects of this case. So in the original manuscript, Myoku's bow is described as a feminine type of bowing. Usually monks pay homage by throwing themselves to the ground and raising their two hands as though lifting Buddha's feet. This form has nothing to do with Myoko's expression.

[08:48]

Here in America, everyone pays homage to the teacher with just a bow. There is no differentiation between a man's bow and a woman's expression. In oriental countries, women have a great many ornaments, and so it is very difficult to prostrate the body. Well, with monks, they are lightly clad and have shaven heads, and they consider the five bodies that are prostrated, the two legs, the two arms, and the head. You know, when we bow, make a prostration, it's called five points. He calls it five bodies. It's probably more literal. Five points are the two elbows and the knees and the forehead. all touching the ground at the same time. After Myoku's bow, Nansen said, then I will not go with you.

[09:54]

That's where the confusion comes in. People get confused. Why did he say, I won't go with you, when he said, I will? So after Myoku's bow, Nansen said, then I will not go with you, as though he did not recall his first promise. For this reason, Kisu remarked, what are you saying now? And Nansen surely admitted that their understanding of Zen was sufficient. In other words, he acknowledged that those two guys were right on. in their understanding. But to avoid a personal assurance, which is one of the sicknesses of the Zen student, he took back his words and said, I will not go. U Mon has the case, the three sicknesses of Zen, which is very involved.

[11:03]

But someday we can study that. So this is one of the sicknesses, is a kind of arrogance, personal assurance. So he's saying, that's why he said, I will not go. From the very beginning, they should not have taken to the road for the trip anyway, thus leaving their own teacher. They left their own teacher to go pay respect to this guy. Baso, their own teacher Baso, who was also a grandson of the sixth ancestor, they were not raising waves, I'm sorry, they were raising waves without wind, or trying to operate on a body that's not sick. Another kind of useless activity, right? Why go here, as Dogen says, why go to the dusty roads of other lands when your place, sitting place is right here?

[12:07]

That's all well and good as it is, but it's not everything. There's still something more. In the poem, Master Archer hits the monkey, for his arrow flies always ahead. From ancient times to the modern age, who will hit the monkey like the Master Archer One brother warns others not to waste time and energy. That's a paraphrase. All agree not to visit the grand uncle. Then Setso added another two lines and said, the road to the sixth ancestor's temple is flat and easy. Why don't they continue on the path to him? That right there, I think, for me, is the koan. So in his commentary, he says, great archers, the masters of archery in China, shoot their arrows ahead in the direction that the monkey is moving and their followers in archery try to aim at the monkey and thus fail to hit him.

[13:23]

In other words, when you pass the football to somebody who's running, you judge where it's going to where the catcher is going to pick it up. You don't throw it at the person, but you judge ahead and throw it where it's going to meet. That's what he's saying here. So Setso in his poems is praising Nansen who knew from the beginning what the other brothers would do when he drew a circle. Therefore, first he said, if you understand Zen, I will go with you. Then later, he commented, I will not go with you. Going or not going has nothing to do with Zen. Setcho, in adding the last two phrases, merely said, Soke's road is easy and flat. Why not go there and see the national teacher? Thus, the drawn circle was rubbed out, leaving only the good earth extending over the whole world

[14:33]

That's a nice comment. In other words, he just took the whole scene away. And wherever they are, they meet the national teacher. But, why not go see him? So, for me, if they don't go to see him, then it can be construed as arrogance. We know already, so why go see them? What are we going to get? And if they don't go, or if they do go, what's the point? So right there is this koan. If they don't go, it's like arrogance. And if they do go, what's the point? So what should they do?

[15:36]

I remember Suzuki Roshi, who often came to the zendo, just before he was doing doksan or whatever, and he'd come to the zendo just before the end of the period. And even if he came in 30 seconds before the end of the period, he'd bow to his cushion and sit down. Then the bell would ring and he'd get up. Most people, ordinarily, if a person comes in the zendo 30 seconds before the bell rings, they stand in their seat and they wait for the bell to ring. I mean, why sit down? But he'd always sit down and complete what he started. If the period was still going, only had one second to go, he would still sit down because that's where he was.

[16:39]

He was not outside of the activity, waiting for the activity to be over before he did something else. There's no in-between time. And this subtle activity was his teaching. That when we wash the windows, we wash them because they're dirty, of course. But Suzuki Roshi said, you just wash the windows. You don't wash the windows to get them clean, because they're dirty. Every day you can wash the windows, whether they're dirty or clean. because washing the windows is your activity. You don't sleep the floor because the floor is dirty. Of course, one aspect of sleeping the floor is the floor is dirty, so you want to get it clean.

[17:43]

But when you sleep the floor, you're just sleeping the floor. Whether it's clean or dirty is not the point. When you're brushing your teeth, In the morning you get up and you brush your teeth. But you don't brush your teeth to get them clean. You brush your teeth because brushing your teeth is your activity. So this flies in the face of our usual logic. Because we always want to have a certain kind of purpose for doing something. And so we're always immersed in this dualistic activity, which seems correct to us. It's logical. Of course, we sweep the floor to get it clean. I don't usually sweep the floor unless it's dirty. But if you sweep the floor every day, then you sweep the floor whether it's dirty or clean.

[18:48]

And sometimes you wish it was dirty. Sometimes you wish the window was dirty. If the window was only dirty, it would be so much more fun. But this is sort of like this case. These three guys are going to see the national teacher. What will they get out of it? If they think they're going to get something out of it, then they might as well go back home. But they started out to see the national teacher. They should just continue and just see the national teacher because that's what they started out to do. It doesn't matter whether they get something or don't get something. It doesn't matter whether he's the best teacher or not the best teacher. It doesn't matter whether they're already enlightened.

[20:03]

They came from Baso's place and they got halfway there and realized they didn't need to go. And because they didn't need to go, they should go. Yes? Did they realize it or did they both. They realized they didn't need to go and they doubted, or at least nonsense brought up the doubt. So he said, but this is an interesting case. First he said, We will, if you can say something, we'll continue.

[21:07]

And they said something, and then he said, well now that you said something, I changed my mind and we won't continue. Why'd he say that? It seems so obvious. But still, why did he say that I'm not going up? He couldn't say it, would he? Oh, I see. Well, there are many ways to say something. That's a good point, literally. And yet that's the case in which he wouldn't go.

[22:27]

So they couldn't win from that point. If they express Zen, then what's the point? And if they don't express Zen, they need to go and he's not going. Well, something like that. Charles? Right, well, his saying, I won't go now, could mean it doesn't matter whether we go or not.

[23:43]

Could mean that. Well, on the one hand, we have the concern of the arrogance. But on the other hand, it seems like there may be a concern of selling out, of just making the gesture teacher, national teacher, but who isn't really a first-rate teacher. First-rate teachers maybe have an aversion to emperors and being supported in that style. Well, that's possible. Well, I think that maybe Lansing creates this double bond. And then, you know, as we say, you know, like today, he creates this double bond. And then, I think that then everyone has to regroup. Then everything shifts. Then there's another question on the table. Now what do we do?

[24:50]

We jump in the circle and another monk prints you like a woman and first he says, It's just beginning to sort of fall apart, or is it? And so all this is on the table, and what are they going to do? Right, so now what do we do? Because it doesn't say that he actually went back. No, we don't know. It seems to me that new information comes out. Well, maybe learn.

[26:17]

Learn what? Learn sin. It always seems like the intention is to be retested all the time. Is to be what? Retested. Retested, yes. Tested all the time. Everything's a test. It's true. Well, the question is, did we make a mistake? Did we make a mistake? In the original intention? No. Yeah. I don't think we have enough information to really follow. Well, the problem is, if we have too much information, then it's easy to get lost in information. Yes.

[27:48]

Right. And so with this freedom, what will we do? Whatever we want. Right. We can't do it either. That's right. So whichever way they go is okay. Question. In the second translation, do they say halfway there? Is that in both translations? Halfway there is the accepted place. I don't know whether you said exactly halfway, but... On their way. Is it the difference between on their way and halfway there? There is a difference, but it may not be relevant here. It may not be. It may be, though. Maybe there's no difference between coming into the sauce and 20 minutes before it periods over in one minute.

[29:09]

But that's not the point. Yeah, no matter where you come in, you sit down. It still has a different, to me, it has a different feeling. I keep seeing nonsense. Maybe it's still because of the half a cat. But in this sort of manipulative position, there's a difference, if he doesn't, when they're sort of out of the gate. Are we really going to do this? Or are they, you know, going over a huge distance, halfway, and then, OK, you guys, I've got you out, you're alone. No, I'd better desert you. Nonsense seems to do this kind of stuff. Halfway. Half a cat. But also holding that threat. Threat? Threat. The other way he sets it up. Yeah. He's a very threatening kind of guy.

[30:11]

So, whichever way they go is okay. They can go to see the National Teacher and no problem. As long as they understand why they're going. And they can go and go back where they came from, if they want to. They don't have to go and see the National Teacher. But they should go see him anyway. What I hear is that they're going to see the National Teacher, so the energy is starting to get pretty big. So suddenly, Nong Quan, Nong Sen has a doubt. He doesn't know if he wants to be seen with he's going to be doubting them, they're beginning to doubt him. So they're not going to give him a word. So then he says, OK, I'm not going with you. Are you still thinking about that word? Maybe so.

[31:17]

I can understand your logic. But I'm not sure if because a word is expressed, just means express it. I've had that happen. I think it may be significant that the koan does not end with Namsan changing his mind or reversing his intention, but it ends with his mate saying, What's going on in your mind? What's going on here? Or what an attitude of mind was yesterday's translation? So that sort of throws the maybe, I don't get these things,

[32:19]

It means for the reader or the Zen student to reflect or not reflect, not think about nonsense and what he's doing and what he's evoking here from his mates. Yeah. Well, it is going on in his mind. Yes. It doesn't matter whether they go or don't go. I mean, that's the sense of the koan is that's not the point. The point is what's going on here. No. Yes. To return with no greater clarity than I had yesterday. What's the point? What's going on in our mind? What attitude of mind do we generate as we consider this koan? What would you say? I would say that the road to Soghean may be very smooth, but the road of sitting here is rough and gravely.

[33:47]

Well, smooth is a kind of metaphor, I think, for ordinary, which includes rough. What's the last line? Yeah, isn't it stated as a question, like it's something like the road to... It's flat and easy. It's flat and easy. And what's the line after that? Why do they not continue on the path to Him? The road's flat and easy. Why don't they... The road is smooth, isn't it? Everybody has a little different way of translating. And it's very sparse in the Chinese. So when you're translating, every translator thinks it up in a different way.

[34:53]

So we should be very careful not to get caught by translation. Sometimes you say something that's translated, and people say, no, no, that's not it. It's this one, because they're used to a certain translation. And if you say it a different way, people say, no, no, that's not right. This is the right one. So you have to be very careful not to be attached to some certain way of saying something, but find the way that it's through. comparing a lot of different ways than you see. And so in this stuff, you know, translated from the Chinese, it's not always clear in translation. So you always have to question. Yeah. But to me, the point is... I feel like it's being thrown to us.

[36:11]

That's right. That's your question. What is the attitude? What's your answer? Because we've been exploring, actually, we've spent now two lectures trying to explore collectively the attitude of mind. That's a very fruitful discussion. And we haven't, and we can't decide. Well, I'm not sure that we can't decide. I think it's not something that I think it's not something that you can answer. Right. But you can get to the point where you get to where you see what the question is. What the real question is. Vicky, do you want to say something? Yeah. I'm not nonsense, but... Don't be too sure. Don't be too sure. Okay, so... Unless somebody says a real word of Zen here, I'm not going to finish this session with you.

[37:12]

I mean, forget it. I'm going home right now. Shall I say a real word for you? It's fine. But, you know, we can act that way. But, and yet, our practice, nevertheless, it's just, we've got another, what, in a very short time, just to finish this machine, just to practice. So, why not? Yes, so why not? Mary? Well, why and why not seems to be what it's about. And we all project our own views onto it, our own slant, but it seems to, what are we doing, and what is the next thing to do?

[38:22]

And you follow your intention, but what is, I suppose, what is your intention really? Because their intention isn't about going to see the national teacher at base. It's something else. That's their activity at the moment, but that's not what their real intention is. So it seems like it raises the question, what in the world are we doing sitting here? For me, it kind of brings up a question of what's really realization? Is it something that you can trot out when somebody says to you, perform, you know, show me?

[39:27]

And I guess, I don't know, but it seems perhaps when you go see the national teacher, something similar happens. And perhaps who you are as a Zen student is verified or not verified. that you somehow perform and bring this thing out. So that in a way, the understanding itself has become some kind of object, rather than something that just is. So that Nantzan says, perform this thing. And they do it, and actually their understanding is very good. It's not bad. But in a subtle way, they just used it, too. It's just this thing. And it always makes me feel funny in this business of trotting out understanding and realization on command, well, foursome.

[40:30]

But it only looks like that in retrospect. It doesn't, when that dynamic is actually happening, It's not a performance. But when you look at it, because all of these cases, most cases are little dramas. And they look like little performances, actually. And they have that aspect in retrospect. Because what we're looking at is not what actually happened someplace. What we're looking at is somebody's coalescence or What? Distillation. Distillation of something that happened in order to make a point. So yes, that's the drama. It's a little drama. So they're little dramas based on something that probably happened.

[41:34]

But when it happened, it was different. So we have to understand that too. Anyway, in answer to Vicky's question, a word, you're going to go home? You won't go home? You will go home? Where is that? How can you escape? This is 15 years since we've been here. We were 12 years at Dwight Way, and we've been here 15. And when we moved here, this building, was, had a wall all the way down the middle, it was two apartments.

[42:53]

Yes, it was two apartments, side by side, called a railroad car. And Ron lived in here? No. Patrick. Huh? Patrick. Patrick and Miriam. And, but soon, And that house next door only was two stories. And we felt very strange because we were new to the neighborhood. On Dwight Way, you know, the Zen Center grew from kind of like an acorn. And so it grew into the space without hindering it, you know, without disturbing it. And then we bought the tree over here and planted it. And so it's quite different feeling.

[43:56]

And the neighbors really put up a big protest. And then, after we were in for a little while, we were totally accepted in the neighborhood. But the ties didn't move in until a few years ago. Five years? That's right.

[45:25]

And then we set up the altar, and the Buddha in the room, just like, what's so wonderful? Yeah. And we would sit in, well, we didn't, the cushions were about this far apart. The aisles were about this far apart. And we used to serve meals and everything in there, in this little space. before we built this, before we remodeled this building. Anyway, there's a lot of history. It's also interesting that we put up this big beam. We took the wall down in the community room and put up this big beam. And I just came over here a few days ago to watch the construction and I just happened to come in as they were taking that beam down. And we realized the beam wasn't really holding anything up. And there was a wall there.

[46:28]

So I said, gee, Bill, you know, it would be neat to take down this wall, you know. We have to do it sometime. He said, well, I have a sledgehammer. So he got out his sledgehammers. And then we started poking around, you know, and pretty soon the wall was gone. And then he put up his beam. When was this beam? Don't ask me. Well, it was the first lay ordination. We had the first lay ordination. We had it and the floor wasn't, it wasn't completed. The building was about 1890-something, wasn't it? Oh, I don't know. But these buildings used to be down in the park. You know that park on the corner? This building, the three buildings. there, but we're moved from the park up to here.

[47:29]

Anyway, we have to continue with our Sashin. So, this afternoon we have Shosan, in which, for the people who haven't done Shosan before, Shosana's question, you bring a question in a formal setting to me, and I'll try to respond to it. And it will be explained, the procedure will be explained this afternoon. But all you have to do now is worry about your question. And we try to keep it as brief So you ask the question, and I make a response. And then if you can also respond again, and I'll make another response, but we try to keep it.

[48:43]

Not long explanations or something like that, just response, question and response. So don't expect that you will always get some kind of satisfying answer to your question. Just like I don't expect that I will always get a satisfying question.

[49:07]

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