Morning. Well, the month of September I unscheduled myself and gave myself a little break, but now I'm back and hopefully on schedule. Well, what I want to talk about today is I guess you call it the balance between the spiritual wheel and the material wheel. We say that if the spiritual wheel is turning, the material wheel takes care of itself, the support and what we need. So the main subject here, that's the overview, but specifically, I'm sure you all have been aware of the suppression of the protests in Burma of the monks and the lay people, the populace.

[01:25]

When I first read about these protests, it said, the people are protesting rising up against the government because of the price of oil. And I thought, price of oil? But what it turns out to be was heating oil, or cooking oil, not automobile oil. So that made some sense to me. Because I think in Burma not that many people, a lot of people have cars, but not everybody. So this is right at the heart of where people live. It's not a luxury item or something like that. And of course, as we know, the Burmese government is a junta which didn't allow The elections, 20 years ago, of this woman whose name I have a hard time pronouncing, who's still incarcerated, and they have never let, the junta has never allowed the democratic process to continue.

[02:50]

And every once in a while, there's an uprising, people protesting. And the last time, the government shot 2,000 or 3,000 people protesting, killing them. So this is big news this time because it's the second time that there's been a really big protest and thousands, thousands of monks have been marching in the street and alongside this wonderful kind of pattern, they're the core of this, they're really taking on, have been taking on the leadership The populace has been on the outside of their line, protecting them and protesting at the same time. And the monks, of course, are considered the conscience of the country, because Burma is so embedded in Buddhist culture.

[04:08]

the monks are totally supported by the populace. So, the monk's sole support is by the dana or contributions of the lay people. So the monks have to, although they're always corrupt monks, wherever you go, but basically, the monks get their support through their practice and their virtue and practice. As we say in our meal chant, when we chant before meals, we say, may our virtue and practice deserve this food, this offering. And that is a monk's, because this comes from a monk's practice, the only way that a monk can be supported is through their practice and their virtue, so to speak.

[05:16]

And so this long tradition of supporting monks, a lot of the people, feel that the monks are practicing it for them because they don't have the opportunity to take the time to practice as monks would. So the monks are the conscience and the spiritual side, the non-materialistic side of the country, of the populace. The other side is the materialistic side. decide of wealth and power and domination. And when that gets out of hand, the state becomes totalitarian.

[06:27]

So, and the balance between the populace and the monks, the lay and the monk becomes overturned, and the country gets out of control, and then those people who are in control suppress the rest. So, this is ancient history. This has always happened, and it's always been happening, Every country takes its turn at domination. The old world was just full of domination. The new world, represented by first France and America, made a big effort to free themselves in a democratic way from the old world of domination, but it persists. And this balance is always being sought and always being overturned.

[07:30]

So we, as Buddhists, we feel some sympathy for the monks. That would be more maybe than ordinary people who are not Buddhists would feel, although that may not be true. So there's some movement feeling that there should be some protest, some way of protesting the government who has cut off all communication with the outside world. But nevertheless, everybody knows about it. It oozes out, the information oozes out through various sources. So we really have some idea what's going on. And at first, The junta stood by and watched what would happen. And then it came to a point where they started closing off the monasteries and beating the monks and killing some of them.

[08:41]

So this is going on continuously right now in the whole countries in this kind of turmoil. And the repression of the monks is beginning. So it's a way of cutting off your spiritual or conscience in order to, and letting your materialistic side predominate. And so you lose your conscience, you block off your conscience, and then you can do whatever you want to people in order to maintain control and power. So, I think that it's a good thing if everybody sends off a message somewhere to protest.

[09:46]

Soto Zen Buddhist Association. I think most of you don't know about the Soto Zen Buddhist Association. Soto Zen Buddhist Association was formed in 1995 in order for the Sanghas in America, the Soto Zen Buddhist Sanghas in America, the teachers and sanghas to communicate with Japanese counterparts in Japan. And I have gone through 15, 20 years of dealing with this process, but I haven't really communicated much to our sangha about what I've been doing or what we've been doing. But anyway, the Sodas and Buddhas Association is an association of Dharma-transmitted, originally, Dharma-transmitted members. And now it allows for people who are ordained to also belong to this association.

[11:05]

But the sanghas are not involved. It's mostly just teachers. and so there's some feeling that the Soros Zen Buddhist Association should send a letter or protests to the government, which is good. But my question is, someone said, the members and their sanghas, But I think the Sangha has to approve of that if we say the Sangha. You understand what I'm saying? So I'm sure, I think everyone would approve of that. But nevertheless, I think it has to be, it's not a good idea to do something in the name of somebody without asking permission first. So I'd like to ask your permission to do that in your name. Of course if you're a captive audience you can't say no, but you can if you want to.

[12:14]

Captive audience can say yes. Thank you. Well that's the good question. That's kind of like the question that hasn't been answered yet exactly. So I think Alan might know who, because he's been to Burma and knows about, you know, channels. That's a good, interesting point, yes. Yes, that's right. Because China's a customer of the Burmese government, and so China's been supporting the Burmese government.

[13:23]

So all these things are so interlocked and interconnected. I think that's right, and there have been protests outside of the embassy in San Francisco. There are always protests going on outside the Chinese embassy. Do you want discussion now, or do you want to finish your talk? We'll both. I went to the demonstration yesterday in front of the Chinese consulate, and there were a number of our familiar Buddhist teachers there, as well as and many other people. And there was some discussion. And there's going to be another one next Friday, marching from the Chinese consulate to Justin Herman Plaza. And there's some discussion about whether to do something. There was a lot of chanting of metta, sutta, and a lot of sort of, it kind of feel like a Buddhist service there. And I was talking to Jack Kornfield and said, how about a little political content here?

[14:27]

You use a crude dichotomy. And we discussed it for a few minutes. So there's not a whole lot of time to plan, but I was going to try to talk to Alan, who isn't here right now, and see if there's something that could have a more political flavor and that could also have more risk-taking among the demonstrators, some action to make it seem less like we're over here meditating and that should be enough for you. Well, I mean something more overt. Well, maybe blocking a street and risking arrest. These are all controversial things, but at any rate, there will be another demonstration at noon next Friday. And I also discussed with somebody else ways that the various Buddhist entities in Northern California might communicate with each other. I can't really organize it personally, but I'd be glad to talk to anybody after the thing today that communications are... Yeah, well I think that all of this is important to do, but I think that because the international corporate world is so dominant and the noose becomes tighter and tighter

[15:55]

around our freedoms. It's really scary. You know that right now, unbeknownst to most Americans, you can be picked up on the street for no reason at all that you know about and put away without anybody knowing it forever. That is the law now. I think BPF is trying to organize, be a central place to organize different people's protests and what to do, so the website has quite a bit of material. And also I read last night that, this is really good news, in Burma, in a couple cases the soldiers are actually either refusing to shoot the mugs or turning and threatening to fight I am.

[17:06]

Robert? So there's soldiers that are refusing to fight, fighting these prisoners. Yeah. You started by saying your talk is going to be about the balance between the spiritual and the material wheel. And I wonder if you can help me with this. Yeah, you can't do everything.

[18:39]

In one sense, you can do everything by doing one thing, in one sense. If you really do one thing thoroughly, then it can have far-reaching effects on everything. If you try to do everything, it may have no effect on anything. So there's something to that. On the other hand, everyone has to decide for themselves what they can do, depending on their ability, age, so forth. Yeah, it's just, you know, and if you feel that you're doing one thing really conscientiously, no one can fault you, and you can't fault yourself. Yeah, you can, and you probably will. But, you know, when you think about how power and

[19:55]

accumulation, you know, greed works. It becomes the dominant thing. It's really hard to turn that around. It's easy to start wars, it's really hard to stop them. And it's very interesting when we think about the war on drugs. which is a kind of misnomer to begin with. When there's money to be made, people will go for the money. The drug, as we know, the drug industry is only second to the armaments industry in money and power. So if there's money to be made in drugs, why would anybody not want that to happen?

[21:09]

The columnist in the Chronicle refers to it as the war on some drugs. Yeah, the war on some drugs. And if you have a war, somebody profits. So that's what wars are all about. War is a drug. War itself is a drug. Although it's an uphill battle, it has to be continuous. It seems that there are some opportunities though. All of a sudden the universe presents an opportunity when when a group of people say no. And that is the opportunity where support really makes a difference. It might not. I mean, if you went to demonstrate, you could go to a demonstration every day in San Francisco on something.

[22:19]

But all of a sudden, this group of people is putting their lives on the line every day, and they're rising up and they're saying no. And to support that effort, it seems to me, Because if one group of people stand up and say, oh, we risk their lives, they risk everything, and something happens, then the whole revolution can start. That's right. So there is that possibility. That's right. I am puzzled by a non-violent resistance action that has a third-party benefit cost. I'm just puzzled by that. Would it be the U.S. police or something like that? You mean the suggestion of the action here? Yeah. That's exactly what Jack Kornfield said in my five-minute conversation with him.

[23:22]

He said, yes, we need to think, though, because when we're protesting against our own government, it makes more sense for us to do something like block the federal building. And if it's another government, you have to think more about what would be meaningful. And so we agreed to think more. Yes. Well, I think what would really be effective in some way would be for American Buddhists to go to Burma and march. Of course, you probably couldn't get in the country, but that would be interesting. Yeah? Is someone coordinating awareness of the corporate interaction with the Burmese government in the United States? That's something we could be responsible for. Yeah. Well, there's the movement.

[24:23]

I mean, there's the idea that boycotting That's whatever that really means. But anyway, that's supposed to be happening, is the idea of various countries boycotting goods, right? And then holding bank accounts, holding up bank accounts. So that's happening, we think, or at least it's being talked about happening. whether that actually happens or not would be interesting. Because when that happens somebody loses something. But anyway, I think there is a critical point where governments have to pay attention.

[25:23]

And if there's enough of a But if you look at, I remember when Ronald Reagan was elected president, and there was something about atomic energy, and a million people went to Washington and marched, and nothing happened. It was as if they weren't even there. But still, I think this seems like an opportunity somehow. There's something about this particular event that seems like an opportunity. David? That's right.

[26:29]

Just showing up, that's important. I agree. Well, the interesting thing is that the government, or Mr. Bush, is condemning the action of the government. He's protesting the actions of the government.

[28:05]

He's condemning the actions of the government, so to speak. But we'll see what that means. Yeah, exactly. Well, that's right. Yeah, we have to see what actually happens. That's true. The main partners of Burma are India, China, and Russia, so the U.S. has not much to do with it. And it is boycotting, In fact, I think Bush has much to do with refurbishing the human rights image of the U.S., comparing it to Russia. That's right. It makes us look good. Because we have much to lose. And the other thing, too, in terms of the US.

[29:47]

For more than one reason. No. I was just thinking that South Africa could give us some hints because the pattern is very similar that Aung San Suu Kyi and Nelson Mandela have been held in prison for so many years and remained these beacons for their people. And it seemed so hopeless and it was so brutal, and yet it happened. So I don't actually know how to fill in the blanks here, but could we look at the history of South Africa to learn something and take help from people in the South African struggle? Well, I think that that would be the turning point if she was actually released, because now she's in jail, in real jail.

[31:43]

So it's coming down to a showdown. I think that's the thing that makes this hopeful and tragic at the same time, is that it's coming to a showdown. because they can't keep her in jail for very long. The country's too restless. But it'd be, I don't know, but I think that's right. We still have a little time. And for me, his life embodies.

[33:48]

wound up becoming his wife? Well, of course, making friends with people makes things work a lot better than making me. You know, that's incredible. There's been this The War movie, most of you have probably seen it, Ken Burns' second World War movie. And it's mind-boggling. I mean, if you've lived long enough, you've seen all this stuff before. But it's really mind-boggling that there can be people, what is this sense of trying to gain so much when you're gonna die? You know, what do you get? It just doesn't make any sense at all. Just so crazy to kill so many people, create so much mayhem. For what?

[35:22]

Just crazy, crazy. This person in that book, Three Cups of Tea, his name is Greg Mortensen and he's an American. He's also lived in Berkeley a number of years. And he really embodies a true bodhisattva to me. A living bodhisattva. Because he doesn't have any selfish motives behind what he does. And not only that, people of various sects surround him as his core group. Suddhis, Shiites, you name them. And he traveled from one mountain to another. And they not only welcome him, but they ask for him. And his schools include women. Yes. Which is revolutionary in that area. And not only women, but he's not only for children, but he's developing vocational schools for the adults.

[36:30]

You have to speak up. ...healing centers, having international healing centers around the world to give the center to this practice. Then everywhere you go you have that center, then bringing spirituality and alternative, complementary healing to these centers. So we are having next, in November we have a big fundraising here to bring the room's energy, room's energy for this concept behind. This is just a general, more general point from the beginning of your talk which is, It's not a problem to pose a conflict between materialistic and spiritual.

[37:50]

In fact, I'm just saying that in a very soft way, but I think it is a problem to do that. It's not like the spirit of independence and domination or something, not material versus spiritual. No, it's not. It's like when the two wheels are working together, it's one wheel. In other words, a cart needs two wheels to work. The wheels are on the same wavelength. Well, you said the monks were the spiritual and the conscience of Brahma, so it made them sound good and then materialistic sound bad. When it's unbalanced. Yeah, so when it's out of balance, then you have these two polarities. But when it's in balance, everything's working smoothly, perfectly. Yeah. You know, listening to this talk about what's going on, you know, it strikes me that one of my announcements today is about our 40th anniversary.

[38:56]

And I thought, flashed through my mind, $100 per hit. and where's all this money going? It's for our temple. And it might be time to revisit Berkley Zen Center's commitment to supporting people who are really suffering. And I know there are political things we can't, well not that kind of thing, but there are people who can do things that aren't political. And I know we've made contributions in the past to those in need, but perhaps there should be a part of that fund that we develop that is somewhat reserved Suffer. Just a thought. Thank you. I just wanted to respond to Jay. I really like that idea and I also

[39:59]

I'm nervous about discriminating between who has more suffering. My daughter asked me, do some people suffer more than others? And I said to her, no. Everyone suffers differently. And yes, on the But I think it's important to join people by recognizing the common basis of our suffering. I really think that's a part of our practice, and politically as well. I mean, as Camille said, what's happening in this country is amazing.

[41:02]

He was not exaggerating. He literally could be picked up off the street and thrown into Guantanamo. with no access to lawyers. And because it's only happened to a few people of color, of Arab descent, we kind of ignore it. But it's happening. And I see it in the prisons all the time. And in a way, the fact that it's not, that we're not aware of this, we're not working on it, is a form of suffering in and of itself, and of delusion and ignorance. Yes, we need to take care of those who are less fortunate than us, but we also need to... Yeah. I don't know if I'm being clear. I'm just trying to hold both sides. I think you're being clear. I would like to take it out of the realm of suffering and just say, people who need something. Like, I know several people in our sangha

[42:09]

who could use some financial support. You know, like, we're thinking about saving those, you know, dealing with those people, or there's somebody over there, but then there's people right around us who really need to be supported in some way. And I'm very concerned about that, and Rebecca as well. If we just concentrate on that one person, helping that one person, that would be, I would see that as a progress. I don't see what you said, Bob. It certainly contradicts anything. No. It includes that. Yeah. And I'm just saying we should look at where our money goes and think about are there some places maybe we could put it to good use. That's my point. I agree with that. I was going to say, is there not a social committee that looks, I thought there was, that looks to- There was.

[43:20]

People who are ill, et cetera, et cetera. There was. Because the motivator moved. We need a new motivator. We need somebody to take that on and get it moving again. That was Clay. And then the whole thing kind of fell apart. But it needs to be reactivated. And we need somebody to take that on. Just to clarify, we still informally have a function where if someone has surgery or something, Clay trained several of us in how to informally gather people together temporarily. If someone goes through surgery or a temporary situation, we do respond to that as a Samba.

[44:26]

And it's more long-term. Things are nervous.

[44:55]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ