hasn't been around quite as much. I think she has a lot to teach and share with us. So, thank you, Susie. Oh, thank you. Can you hear me? Thank you, that's really kind. Is that kind of echoing, or is it just me? What? Is that okay? How's that? Okay. A couple of people I don't know, since we have such a small group, I was wondering if we could just go around and say our first names. I'm Susan. Thank you. So cozy. And what time am I supposed to stop?

[01:35]

Okay, and I have 10.05, is that right? Okay. So, I work as a community college teacher and about a month ago I was getting ready for the fall semester and I was at the computer, rewriting a syllabus, and our nine, soon to be ten-year-old daughter was in the next room practicing the piano, and she started to talk to me from not so far away, but I couldn't really hear her. And I said something like, I can't really hear you, let's talk after you finish practicing. And the next minute I knew she was there right beside me in the room where I was working and talking again. And so I stopped and I turned to her and I said, you know, I have a really hard time trying to talk while I'm writing at the computer.

[02:40]

What about if you go back to practicing the piano, and then when you're finished, I'll stop, and then we'll have lots of time for each other." So she started to leave, and then she turned around and came back, and she said, Mom, I really wish you were better at multitasking. And, you know, a couple of things flashed through the mind right after that, and here's what I remember. The first thing was like, and it had like an attitude. The first thing was like, what do you mean? I mean, that's all I do all day long is multitask. And then the other thing was, right after that was, I failed again. You know, I've never really been very good at doing a bunch of things at the same time. So I took her in my arms and pulled her into my lap and said to her, You're right.

[03:46]

Especially with the computer, I'm not very good at it. I don't have such great computer skills and it's really hard for me to talk at the same time as I'm trying to write or even do an email. And she said, well, I've seen that it's easy for some people to do all those things at the same time. And she used the example of the secretary at the front desk at her school as an example. She said, she's amazing. She can be at the computer and be talking to somebody in the office, and then the phone rings, and she answers that. And then somebody comes up to the desk and asks her a question. And all the while, there's all this noise in the hallway. And I said, you're right, you know, I've noticed that too. She's amazing, you know. And I don't think I would make a very good secretary because it's hard for me to do all those things. And that's part of her job and part of what she learns to do and gets better at because it's her job.

[04:47]

And I said, I wouldn't be very good at that. And she agreed. And then I said, the abbot says that it's important to do what's right in front of you and to pay attention to what's right in front of you and keep doing what's right in front of you. And she said, well who's right, the abbot or the people who can do all that stuff at the same time? And I said, well, I think they're both right. And I think what the abbot means is that it's important to keep paying attention continuously, no matter what your activity is, and to keep noticing what's in front of you and keep doing that. But we all kind of learn how to manage things at the same time, and it sometimes looks like we're doing a lot of things at the same time. And I said, I don't think that you and I can keep doing what we started out doing, playing the piano and writing at the computer if we're talking at the same time.

[05:57]

Would you be willing to go back and finish your practicing? And when you really feel like you're done, I'll stop and then we can have some time together. So then she left and went back to the piano. So that happened just about a month ago, and I've been thinking about it ever since, and kind of using it as a way to start thinking about, all these questions came up for me about, well, so what is multitasking, and do we really do it? And if we do, how do we do it, and what does it mean to manage a lot of tasks in a general way and what does it mean to pay attention to what's right in front of us in a kind of specific way. So, going back to that incident with her, I thought

[06:59]

There are at least two other ways I could have handled it, probably more. I could have just ignored her completely and just paid attention to what I was doing. I'm glad I didn't do that. I could have stopped what I was doing and paid all my attention to her. without any idea of getting back to the piano or the writing, and then sort of see where that led. And there's kind of no way of knowing if that would have led back to the piano and the writing or not. It might have and it might not have. I did stop what I was doing and pay my attention to her, but I did have in the back of my head getting back to the piano and getting back to the writing. that would have been okay to do it the other way. I did it with kindness, I was thinking, that's maybe the key is whatever way we respond, it's important to do it from some place of kindness.

[08:12]

It's never really appropriate to not bring kindness to the interaction. and there are gaps. We all experience those gaps. I know I do. When I'm tired I have to pay particular attention to being careful with my loved ones so that tired doesn't suddenly roll into irritability and irritability suddenly rolls into some reaction that doesn't include kindness. So then it started me thinking about this semester This semester, my teaching load is a bit greater than normal, a bit more than I actually feel comfortable with, a kind of stretch, and considering the other responsibilities that I have in our home and with my partner, my husband, and our daughter, and I manage the health care of my

[09:22]

my father, who'll be 95 next month, and I manage his finances, and I try pretty hard to visit him every day. So, this semester I decided, well, this is my life this semester, and how do I want to work with that? And one thing that's been really, really helpful for me is to kind of think of the semester as a kind of big sashim of sorts. It doesn't have all the quiet that this Sashin has. Nevertheless, just using that as an image has really helped me. I wake up every morning and I actually say to myself, follow the schedule. And for somebody who really likes to loaf, that's a good reminder. And it's actually working. I notice I'm more tired this semester, but I don't feel stressed. I've dropped a few activities from my daily life that are kind of, what would you call them, enhancement activities or pastimes, because I don't want to get stressed out.

[10:30]

And the other thing that's been really helpful is to remind myself each day, life is always changing. And it's true, and it's really easy to forget. And next semester we'll be here really quickly and the form of that will probably look really different. And before it starts I can evaluate the workload and change the workload. So how do I want to be in my life right now instead of bringing drama and criticism to it right now? So some questions kind of came out of that experience as I started to think about this more. The first question was sort of general multitasking over a week or over a day or over a semester.

[11:34]

How do I want to practice with that? How do we, each of us, practice in our lives with all the responsibilities that we have? Because I don't know that I have any more or less responsibilities than any of the rest of you. A different temperament, a different personality, we all kind of work with the material somewhat the same and somewhat differently. what kind of attention do I want to pay to the activity at hand, the one that's right in front of me, continuously or seamlessly, knowing that there will be gaps, and I can work with those too. I have some ways of thinking about this or examples from my own life that I want to share, and then I'm hoping that I'm going to read a couple passages from Suzuki Roshi and from Charlotte Joko Beck, and then I'm hoping that, you know, some of you will want to share the way you think about this and the way you work with it in your own life.

[12:40]

It seems like we can do more than one activity at a time, or imagine that we're doing more than one activity at the same time. But often one activity will move into the background and another will be in the foreground, and those can shift around. It's more difficult, I've found, as I've observed this, to figure out if we're giving equal attention to two activities that we're saying we're doing at the same time. So music is a good example. So many of us use music as a background. It's easy to do other things while we're listening to music. You can eat and listen to music, or read and listen to music, or drive and listen to music, or work at the computer and listen to music, or have a conversation and listen to music, or clean the house and listen to music. I suppose if you hear something you really like, then the music becomes what's at hand and the other activity goes to the background or vice versa.

[13:52]

One of the things that my husband enjoys doing most in life is playing the piano and listening to 20th century classical music. He often sits down almost daily and puts on a piece of music and does nothing else, just listens to a piece of music. I've been watching him. kind of peeking from the corners. And he'll often close his eyes and just sit and listen to that piece of music. And I noticed there's a kind of look that comes over his face where the muscles in his face relax and this kind of focused attention that is quite moving. And I was thinking, oh, that's the same thing I remember from like sitting all day or sitting all week and suddenly you look up at someone and you see that look on each of our faces of relaxation. concentrated focus, how moving is the word that comes to mind. So that's one way of looking at attention.

[15:01]

It's possible to do all these things at the same time and yet what's in the foreground and what's in the background Why is it so satisfying for us here in our practice to do the opposite of that, to practice doing only one thing? When we eat, we eat. We don't listen to music or talk. When we do the dishes, we don't talk, we just do the dishes. It's very satisfying. I've noticed with myself, I can be doing two tasks at the same time and suddenly I've completely lost one. And have you ever been driving on the freeway and missed an exit because you were thinking about something? I can remember when that's happened, it just shocked me, you know, I felt, it scared me because I thought, oh, I just lost this period of time where I wasn't paying attention to my driving and I suppose that could lead to an accident.

[16:09]

The other place I've noticed this month where that happens for me, I swim several times a week and sometimes when I'm swimming I'll attempt to plan out the day, or a part of the day, or tackle a problem, or think about something that's happening in the classroom. And almost the split second that I do that, I lose count of how many laps I've done. Not that that's important, but I've noticed that, how interesting that is, that I don't seem to be able to do what seems so simple, like, why can't I count and swim at the same time? Maybe it's like counting in zazen. You know? suddenly one's immersed in thought and drop that and come back to zazen and counting. But I notice when I'm not trying to plan or think about something, how satisfying it is when I'm just focusing on swimming, the rhythm of swimming and, you know, the arms and feet going and the breathing and the counting of the laps, and the whole experience is very, very satisfying.

[17:21]

in a really simple way. The next way that I started to think about this was So when do I use multitasking as a way to distract myself from boredom or something I don't really want to do? And I thought, oh, maybe that's what our daughter was doing when she stopped at the piano and came in to talk to me. Practicing an instrument is a really hard thing to do. It takes a long time for a kid to get into the rhythm of daily practice, or an adult. And so what do I as an adult do when I feel boredom, and what do we all do with boredom or difficulty when we meet it, and what do we want to teach our children about how to be with boredom or difficulty when it arises?

[18:38]

And how often do I add activities when I'm feeling bored or something difficult at hand that I don't want to push through. Another way that I started thinking about multitasking was, well, how often do we use it as a way to save time or to make what we call the most of time? And it certainly seems like in these days there are all kinds of devices to help us save time or make the most of our time. And certainly the cordless phone and the cell phone come to mind. You remember when phones used to be attached to cords and you couldn't go anywhere?

[19:42]

And then they made those extension cords so you can go 20 feet. And now we can just roam all over the place and do all kinds of things, you know? And it's very tempting. I try really hard actually to, when I answer the phone, to sit right down so that I'll just listen to the, you know, engage myself in the phone conversation, but it's really tempting. Sometimes I wander out to the garden and start pulling weeds, but it doesn't ever really feel that satisfying to me. And then there's the experience of realizing later that you don't really remember what you were talking about and how irritating that is when you're on the other end and you have something important to share and the other person doesn't even remember what you were talking about. I remember many years ago when I was young, before I ever became a teacher, I farmed for about a decade, and it was right when those Sony Walkmans came out, do you remember those?

[20:56]

There were several people that were always trying to talk me into getting a Sony Walkman so that I could make good use of my time and learn a language, or listen to music, or at least listen to the radio while I was doing field work, or cutting vegetables in the field, or washing vegetables, or driving the delivery truck. And I really tried to get my mind around that, but I never did it, and I could never imagine myself doing that, because it was so enjoyable to be in the field. And I thought, well, I would just miss all those great sounds of the tractor against the soil, or the hoe hitting the soil, or the sounds of people working together. you know, I could have another language under my belt. And some people can probably do both of those things and do a decent job. So then I thought, well, maybe some of this has to do with just plain personality and capacity for, you know, we all have different capacities for what we can do in one lifetime.

[22:11]

I remember I don't know if Mel says it much anymore, but he used to always say that his teacher Suzuki Roshi said, just couldn't understand how Americans try to pack so much into one day or one week or one lifetime. So then I thought, you know, there are some activities that very directly teach us the value of paying attention to one activity at a time. I mean, I suppose everything teaches us that, but there are some activities that you can see before your hands what happens when you pay attention or don't. Practicing a craft is kind of like that, I would imagine. painting or an instrument. But I practiced for many years and taught a particular kind of basket making when I was young.

[23:16]

And to build a good basket requires very focused attention to bring about the right shape and strength of the basket that you want to build all the way from the bottom to the top. And any time you really lose sight of that, it's very easy for the shape to lose its form and become less than strong. And it takes a long time to get that, a lot of practice. And yet, at the same time, a point at which the basket takes on its own life, has its own life, and you have to let go. And if you hold on too tight, sometimes the shape will begin to take on its own life that might be different from what you had in mind.

[24:21]

And if you force it, you can also ruin the form and the strength of the basket. So there's this kind of letting go, but holding attention at the same time. If you get too much of the me in the relationship, then you can lose it entirely. So that's another aspect of paying attention. The image that kept coming up for me this month as I was thinking about this was that of a juggler. So she has several things she's juggling in her hands and there's a kind of balance of attention to let's say three things or four things that she's throwing up in the air and the minute she loses

[25:26]

that balanced attention, boom, it all falls to the ground. And how much of it is letting go and how much of it is the objects and how much of it is her? I don't know. And when the proper amount of attention is there and everything's being juggled Then there's this intimacy with each of those objects, and it kind of looks like she's doing three or four things at the same time, when in fact it's rather continuous, if we were to slow it down. So I like that image. I poured through every book I could find on the shelves at home. You know, there's no chapter called Multitasking yet.

[26:28]

But I was able to find a few things, so I chose two that I thought really spoke to what I'm trying to speak about. One is from Suzuki Roshi, this book, Not Always So. And the chapter's called True Concentration. Just read a short passage. It says, true concentration does not mean to be concentrated on only one thing. Although we say do things one by one, what it means is difficult to explain. Without trying to concentrate our mind on anything, we're ready to concentrate on something. For instance, if my eyes are on one person in Zendo, it will be impossible to give my attention to others. So when I practice Azen, I'm not watching anybody. Then if anyone moves, I can spot them. I read this, I immediately thought of that bird, the kingfisher, you know, out in the wild. That bird just zooms down a river, you know, so close to the water's edge without hitting it, and never looks left or right.

[27:39]

But you know that it has full attention of what is around it, so that if some danger arrives, it's able to shift what its attention is on. Avalokiteshvara is the Bodhisattva of Compassion. Avalokiteshvara also appears in the form of a woman. Oh, sorry, I read that wrong. Avalokiteshvara is the Bodhisattva of Compassion. Sometimes portrayed as a man, Avalokiteshvara also appears in the form of a woman. Sometimes she has 1,000 hands to help others. But if she concentrates on only one hand, then 999 hands will be of no use. The most important thing in our practice is just to follow our schedule and to do things with people. Although we practice with people, our goal is to practice with mountains and rivers, with trees and stones, with everything in the world, everything in the universe, and to find ourselves in this big cosmos.

[28:42]

When we practice in this big world, we know intuitively which way to go. When your surroundings give you a sign showing you which way to go, even though you have no idea of following a sign, you will go in the right direction. And I thought, oh, this is Buddha's way, you know, openness, you know, stay focused and then be open to what's the next thing in front of you. The other piece I chose is from, this is a really old book, Charlotte Joko Beck. I don't know if it was maybe her second book. And this is called, Attention Means Attention. There's an old Zen story. A student said to Master Ichu, please write for me something of great wisdom. He picked up his brush and wrote one word, attention.

[29:46]

The student said, is that all? The master wrote, attention, attention. The student became irritable. That doesn't seem profound or subtle to me. In response, he wrote simply, attention, attention, attention. In frustration, the student demanded, what does the word attention mean? And he replied, attention means attention. We could substitute the word awareness. Attention or awareness is the secret of life and the heart of practice. Like the student in the story, we find such a teaching disappointing. It seems dry and uninteresting. We want something exciting in our practice. Simple attention is boring. We ask, is that all there is to practice? When students come to see me, I hear complaint after complaint about the schedule of the retreat, the food, the service, about me. But the issues that people bring to me are no more relevant or important than a trivial event, such as stubbing a toe. How do we place our cushions? How do we brush our teeth? How do we sweep the floor?

[30:47]

How do we slice a carrot? We think we're here to deal with more important issues, such as problems with our partner, our jobs, our health, and the like. We don't want to bother with the little things, like how do we hold our chopsticks or where do we place our spoon. Yet these acts are the stuff of our life, moment to moment. It's not a question of importance, it's a question of paying attention, being aware. Why? Because every moment in life is absolute in itself. That's all there is. There's nothing other than this present moment. There's no past, no future, there's nothing but this. So when we don't pay attention to each little this, we miss the whole thing. And the contents of this can be anything. This can be straightening our sitting mats, chopping an onion, visiting someone we don't want to visit. It doesn't matter what the contents of the moment are. Each moment is absolute. That's all there is and all there ever will be. If we could totally pay attention, we would never be upset. If we're upset, it means we're not paying attention.

[31:50]

If we miss not just one moment, but moment after another, we're in real trouble. Ours is an awareness practice that takes in everything. The absolute is simply everything in our world, emptied of personal emotional content. We begin to empty ourselves of such self-centered thoughts by learning more and more to be aware in all of our moments. Awareness practice is open to any present experience, all this upsetting universe, and it helps us slowly to extricate ourselves from our emotional reactions and attachments. I like that last line, all this upsetting universe, and it helps us slowly to extricate ourselves from our emotional reactions and attachments. And I think what we do when we do that is we're available to be kind when something interrupts our schedule of multitasks.

[32:54]

I think it's about 20 of and I'd like to end here and kind of see what everybody else has to say about multitasking and how you do it and what you think about and just have a little discussion. Thank you all very much. I had this experience a few days ago where, you know, there's these cats that live around here, these wild cats that yowl all the time, you know, they're always yowling.

[34:02]

When I'm in Zazen, actually nothing bothers me. I mean, you know, my body bothers me, my mind bothers me. But, you know, if there's yowling, if there's sirens, if there's, you know, an earthquake, you know, it's almost like anything could happen and it doesn't bother me. do is pay attention. And sometimes that yelling actually helps me because if I'm lost in thought, the yelling is like, oh yeah, here I am at Berkley Zen Center. Here I am back. But the other day, I'm taking a couple of classes. I'm taking a microeconomics class in statistics. And these are new topics for me. I haven't taken a math class in 22 years. So I have to really focus and think about what I'm doing. And I was doing my homework. on the computer, and these cats were meowing and meowing and meowing, and I couldn't think. And I thought, boy, this is so interesting, because normally I'm not really bothered by them. I have thoughts about it, but it doesn't derail me.

[35:05]

But I think it's probably a different part of the brain that But I just thought, you know, so that was something that came to my mind about the multitasking. I think people are different and some people can really think. The other thing that came to me was the first day I ever substitute taught in Oakland, it was a crazy class. They were fighting. They were yelling. They couldn't find a pencil. They were wandering around. It was totally out of control. In the midst of this, there was this one kid who was sitting, who was focused, who was looking right at me.

[36:09]

He was like, okay, let's go. What's the assignment? What are we supposed to do? And it was so much noise and so much chaos. I couldn't believe that this child was so focused. And I realized that some people live their whole lives amidst that kind of chaos. You know, it didn't bother him because that was normal to him. He didn't expect it to get any better. And he just really wanted to learn. So it was very interesting to me. So anyway, I'll shut up and let other people talk. Yeah, it sounds like you're pointing at So part of it is personality and makeup, but part of it is familiarity with something, or, you know, like, maybe after you've been studying those subjects for a year or two, or even a semester, your tolerance for noise around you, because you're more familiar with the subject, will get better. You know? So... Because, kind of what you're... because we can all practice with whatever situation we're in and then get better.

[37:19]

I mean, you know, my daughter and I have been having these ongoing conversations now about multitasking and, you know, I thought, well I could get better at what, you know, this, a little bit. Because the computer isn't kind of where my heart is. I'm not trying as hard in that area. to be doing that? You know, I think that your point about boredom, I think, is very wise insight in this situation. I think maybe that's really true, what was going on with your daughter, that maybe she was bored, or she was lonely, or something was going on. And actually, I'd like to speak up in defense of non-multitasking, because I think our world Yeah, nor me, but I think you see my point, you know?

[38:41]

Yeah, Mary? Yeah, I would, along those lines, want to, myself, make a distinction between what Suzuki Roshi was talking about, which sounds like that panoramic shikantaza idea, and multitasking, which feels to me like how we're invited by the speed of things to buck up and step away from ourselves and really not be in touch. I mean, I had something happen to me yesterday which feels really common to myself, which is kind of a bucking up and going with the flow and pretending to be normal, under circumstances which were normal. I left here after the talk and everything, And she and I have a common acquaintance who's a mentor of mine from graduate school.

[39:43]

And she had really devastating news of him. He has just passed. He's been diagnosed with lung cancer and is going into surgery this week. And we had this very long and intimate conversation in the middle of the market. But I hadn't been with myself. I was multitasking. I wasn't really. And so I took it out of the car and I carried it in. And he said, you know, it happens. Forty bucks a night. But, you know, that's multitasking.

[40:46]

with my whole being. I don't know where in the world we allow ourselves to slow down and keep track of all of our parts. And there's a part of multitasking that doesn't let you do that. And that's different, I think. But then there's a part of our practice that I think is really good advice and that's, you know, we say follow the schedule, but then we say, and if you can't, don't. And that's the part where I think that our practice can bring to this world of multitasking that we live in, in these times. And it's hard to do, you had stuff to do, you know, but that we more and more learn to do that, to stop, and then not do the very next thing that's in the schedule, or that

[42:15]

or related to what Ellen was saying about our daughter, whether or not she was bored or lonely or whatever she was. I thought even, okay, she went back, but then the next, I had that on my mind to direct her back, but then the next place of decision would be if she didn't want to do that and she had resistance to doing that. which she didn't. She easily went back to it after we talked, but she could have not wanted to, and then where would I be? Would I be willing to give up my schedule? I hope so, but in a way it's what you're talking about. Is it Christy? Yeah. I can't multitask.

[43:40]

I think there's a difference between literally trying to do two or three things at once, and what's cool on the ground, and alternating. Yeah, you know, I guess at the end, I mean, I hope I'll still explore this, but I kind of feel like it's a misnomer. Do we really multitask? I don't know. I don't really come to the end of the month with a clear Answer it seems more like what you're interweaving sounds better to me Maria There are certain things I multitask that are extremely satisfying so last night I was listening to Harry Potter on tape I was knitting and I had some balls under my body that were helping my muscles relax But you know, it was like my body was happier when I was done.

[45:15]

I was happy with what I had done. And I had this kind of richness going on. So I can't write a paper in multitasking. But there's certain kinds of things that just have a kind of deep satisfaction if I get to do them at the same time. And I mean, I've certainly done lots of reading where I've learned something. by listening to a tape. Now I have to listen to that tape a lot more often if I'm waiting at the same time. But it's very exciting to me to have learned something and gotten to spend that time in my art. So it really depends on what it is. Yeah, I think that's a really good Examples, thank you. And I meant to say, and I guess I didn't say, I hope it didn't come across, I'm not trying to say that it's better or worse or good or bad. It just became very interesting to me to look at the various influences on paying attention or multitasking.

[46:17]

And part of it may be personality too. But I like those examples, yeah. I was thinking there's a lot of pressure in this society to do more and more in less and less time and social pressure. I think it's basically unemotional. It depends on who I am. I think I retired about ten years ago. Yeah, I agree.

[47:48]

Yes, tell me again your name? Lisa. Lisa, yeah, thank you. I really appreciated what you said about kindness. I identify with almost everyone that my amount of attention is very limited and that I much prefer to focus on one thing at a time. I love deepening my mindfulness and staying in flow. This is just the way I am. You have to work with me the way I am. And react somewhat with annoyance when my child or my husband comes in and I'm immersed in a hurtful conversation. I suddenly have to, it feels like ripping myself in two. And yet there's something that needs my attention right now and I could intervene, probably, and show some kindness. I have a big lesson to learn here. The other piece of it is my having read Darlene Cone's book, The One Who's Not Busy, recently.

[48:57]

I highly recommend it to anyone who hasn't encountered it yet. And she provides us some exercises for staying in mindfulness, even when we're challenged by what feels like a potentially way over-stressing situation. Yeah, thank you. I think that's a really good point. You know, it may not take any more energy to be kind than it is to be irritable, but, you know, it's our habit energy. And we have to, I mean, I think that's why we're here, is that we're all learning to retrain ourselves so that we can respond from a place of kindness instead of from a place of frustration. And for me, I'm noticing that has to do with limiting the number of activities that I'm doing so that I can feel fresh, you know, or there, available.

[50:06]

Yeah, thank you. Mary, did you have your hand up? Too long ago? What do you say? is practicing in the kitchen.

[51:35]

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Somebody over here. Karen. I've lately been trying to approach each interruption and pay attention to it. I don't say the word kindness, but I notice that being kind actually makes it easier to pay attention.

[52:39]

And in some traditions, before So, I find that that's what I try to do when I need each interruption. I don't get upset by the whole situation. That makes a lot of sense, because if you think of it, kindness is extended outward, whereas If you're responding from a place of, if you're reacting from a place of frustration, it's more coming from this idea of me, oh sorry, me. Whereas kindness is extending to a place of outward, you.

[53:42]

Thank you. Jerry? Yeah, I have a couple of thoughts. I mean, I'm a multi-cascading recovery. I used to think that I could multitask and I started to observe that when I think I'm doing that really well and I look at what I've done, the product is not at all what I thought it was. There are all kinds of mistakes or things because I wasn't as involved as I should have been. The two things that I think I was hearing, one was it's somewhat about state of mind. Sometimes when I'm at work and I feel pressure from multiple sides, I need to go do walking meditation around the block and come back and then I can actually cope with the multiple demands because my own state of mind is different. So if I'm in a tranquil place, I can be kinder and deal with this person's need for me and that person's need and the phone call I need to make because I've slowed everything down enough.

[54:50]

that it doesn't feel like I'm being torn in a million directions. It just feels like things are slowed down enough. And part of what I was hearing from you with your daughter was also this issue of being able to discern when you're there. So if I slow things down and walk around the block and breathe and then come back, things are slow enough that I can actually have some discernment about what needs my attention. And pick up the clue from your daughter. You're more likely to be able to pick up the clue from a person, for example. Do they really need me? Or is it just they're bored? So this is kind of slowing down and then discerning for me. And I don't do it real well. I like that image of you

[55:52]

getting up and walking around the block. That's good. Or maybe not. Or maybe not, but I would be, by nature, I would be a person who would try to keep on doing it. Thank you. Nancy? And then we'll stop. This is like really perfect, I mean, the full conversation, because I noticed that I lose track, I lose track of my purpose, you know, when I'm dealing with my business, and it seems like all of these things are coming in at the same time, and I think each thing is as important as the next thing,

[56:54]

yesterday where my employee was, I could tell she was, the energy there was, I was irritable. And I could see it just kind of infiltrating into her being, and she got irritable. So there's this back and forth irritability going on, which fortunately I had enough presence of mind to just say, whoa, this is, this is not how I want this to be. And so I just came back and I said, what is Yeah, no, that's really great and great that you were able to shift it. Thank you. Ellen's waving the... Yes, it's right on the line.

[58:19]

Okay. We'll have more discussion later this afternoon. Thanks so much.

[58:23]

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