I vow to taste the truth and learn to talk to the truth. I want to let you know about, in this book, Dogen Zen, which came out some time ago, there's a translation of Gakudo Yujinshu by Shohaku Okamura, which Andrea reminded me of. It has a lot of nice footnotes in it. I don't know if you can get a hold of that, but... It's in our library. Oh, it is in our library, yeah, but only one person can read it at a time.

[01:04]

We used to have a whole bunch of copies. But we could probably get some, yeah. So last time we went through the first section, which Dogen reminds us about arousing the thought of enlightenment as a requisite for practice. And arousing way-seeking mind, which is the activity of the thought of enlightenment. I talk about way-seeking mind a lot.

[02:06]

Suzuki Roshi talked about way-seeking mind a lot. way-seeking mind, way-mind, doshin, was one of Sugiroshi's themes. And I think of, you know, there's the thought of enlightenment, then there's the activity of the thought of enlightenment, which is a way-seeking mind. So would anybody like to summarize in a few words what we took this last time's talk or class? What are some of the points that we discussed? We did discuss that.

[03:07]

That's a chapter or a section by itself, but we did touch on that. You can look at your book if you want. really almost desperately aware of the impermanence of things, then that alone would probably get you through all the other problems because then you wouldn't have any interest in name or fame and these other things.

[04:08]

But if you weren't aware of those, then all these other alternatives come down. So he's saying that this is the essential undercut the problems of being drawn off by superficial or vain endeavors. So that's right, I think that's very important that he talked about the thought of enlightenment is the same as understanding or being aware of, really aware of impermanence. And that the mind of enlightenment is the mind that is aware of impermanence in a very fundamental way.

[05:17]

And what else did he talk about? Yeah, he did mention discontinuity, right? And then I elaborated on discontinuity and continuous time. That was a good part of the discussion. Andrea? I think he cautions us against how subtle the ego can be. Even the ego that thinks that it is following a pure path and wanting to have spiritual enlightenment, but even that has many pitfalls to it. being at the attachment to seeking enlightenment can be a building, actually work in the opposite direction.

[06:28]

But there's one major thing that really took up a lot of space here. On the first page, yeah. Yeah, we talked about karma, group karma and personal karma. Yeah, we talked about that too. Some of the things came up which weren't exactly what he was talking about, but they were related. So what does he say on the first page? Apprehend everything as impermanent. He's talking about impermanence and accepting or seeing things, not being attached to them, And he's talking, there's one major thing he's talking about right there on the front page. No.

[07:34]

I'm sorry, on the second page. No wonder. Sorry. It's on the first page of the other book. It's right there. Some people say, that's the whole subject. Some people say, and then he enumerates what they say. Remember that? That's what I mean. That takes up a big space. Some people say, The thought of enlightenment is the mind of supreme perfect enlightenment to not be concerned with the cultivation of fame or profit. Some of them say the thought of enlightenment is the insight that each thought contains 3,000 realms. Some of them say, and so he goes on enumerating all of these ideas, which, but he says, but there's something, some problem here with all this.

[08:50]

What's the problem? The teacher's attitude, the way that they're teaching, it's not that what they say is wrong, but it's the way that their attitude behind it, that they're still looking for some kind of gain, they're still teaching from a place of ego. Well, it's that they're putting the cart before the horse. He said, these are fine things to study after you have some practice realization. Scholarship is not a substitute for practice. I don't know who's talking actually. How far back are we?

[09:54]

Oh yeah, I can't see you, sorry. Where's that coming from? Thank you. Yeah, that's right. Scholarship is not a substitute for practice. These are fine. and once you have realization, practice realization, then it's nice to study these things. They're deep in your practice and your understanding. So that's an important part of what he's talking about, I think, in this chapter. So then, Last Saturday, in my talk, I talked about the second section. Some of you probably weren't here. But it's so short, you know, I thought, it's really short. And once you hear the true teaching, you should practice it without fail.

[10:56]

So, that's obvious. But we did talk about that. He talked about the loyal servant. One phrase offered by a loyal servant can have the power to alter the course of the nation. One word given by a Buddha ancestor cannot fail to turn people's minds. The unwise ruler does not adopt the servant's advice. One who does not step forward cannot accept the Buddha's teaching. If you are unbending, you cannot stop floating along in birth and death. If appropriate advice is not heeded, governing with virtue cannot be realized. The unwise ruler does not adopt the servant's advice. This has a lot of different connotations, actually. One is, we should listen to people who are A teacher should listen to new students, or to not just the advisors who are close, but the advice of those who are not so close.

[12:06]

But he's actually talking about, you should heed the advice of Buddha, is what he's really talking about here. But he's using the other as a kind of example. So I want to talk tonight about the third section, which is, in the Buddha way, you should always enter enlightenment through practice. So he talks about that. And I just wanted to say something about practice. Practice, entering enlightenment through practice, practice puts pressure on a person. Sometimes we say practice is difficult, sometimes we say practice is easy, and then sometimes we say practice is just practice, it's not difficult or easy.

[13:09]

When you get to that point, that's very nice. It's not difficult or easy, it's just practice. So sometimes it feels difficult, sometimes it feels easy, but it's just practice. So we just practice with whatever is there, but there is an aspect of practice which is difficult, and sometimes we feel a lot of pressure in practice, and especially in Sashin. When I think of difficulty, I think about, some people don't have much difficulty in a long Sashin, but I think most people do. And, but it's like diamonds are forged in intense pressure in the earth. That's what makes them so hard, you know, because of this intense pressure.

[14:12]

I mean, there are other factors that make them hard too, but they do form with this intense pressure. And so diamond is a kind of representative of, represents Buddhist practice because it's the indestructible kind of indestructible gem. And it's forged through that pressure. And so we kind of use that as a, and then there's the Diamond Sutra, which epitomizes wisdom. So if you ever have any thought about maybe this is too hard or something, just think about the way diamonds are formed.

[15:16]

Zen students are formed through intense pressure as well. So Dogen says, a worldly teacher says, through study, one can gain wealth. Buddha says, within practice, there is enlightenment. A practice is sometimes called study, but this word for study doesn't mean studying academically or book. It's like when Dogen in the Genjo Koan, he says, to study the Buddha Dharma is to study the self. But this word study doesn't mean study academically or analytically.

[16:21]

It means doing something over and over again. So the word study doesn't quite match the actual meaning. But it's like, I think it means practice actually. It's actually kind of like practice. So, through study, one can gain wealth, that's true. And in Dogen's time, there was a study especially in China, they had the examination for scholars, and that's how the Mandarins became the wealthy rulers. So through study, one can gain wealth, and within practice.

[17:27]

when there is enlightenment. But he doesn't say it gains enlightenment. He says there is enlightenment within practice. You find it within practice. So, it is unheard of that without studying, someone should earn wealth, or that without practicing, someone should attain enlightenment. He uses the word attain here. Through practice, though practice varies, initiated by faith or Dharma knowledge, with emphasis on sudden or gradual enlightenment, you always depend on practice to go beyond enlightenment. This is a very interesting statement. Though practice varies, I think it's, though practices vary, Maybe better. There are many different practices in Buddhism. Some depend on faith, and some depend on other things.

[18:32]

Initiated by faith or Dharma knowledge, with emphasis on sudden or gradual enlightenment, you always depend on practice to go beyond enlightenment. So I just want to talk about each of these things. In Dogen's time, there were three main religious figures. One was Dogen, and the other was Shinran, and the other was Nichiren. So Dogen was the Zen master, and Shinran was the advocate of or chanting the name of Buddha, entering the pure land by chanting the name of Buddha. And Nichiren felt that realization came through chanting the name of the Lotus Sutra and reading the Lotus Sutra.

[19:45]

Ichiran was kind of a militaristic, kind of assertive person. He gained fame by turning, the Koreans came to invade Japan in the 13th century, and their armada was turned around by a big storm. And Nichiren claimed that the reason why the big storm came was because he chanted the name of the Lotus Sutra. Nam-myoho-renge-kyo and the Soka Gakkai are descendants of Nichiren. And then the Jodo Shinshu school are descendants of Shinran. So Dogen was critical of both of them, and they were each critical of each other.

[20:49]

But in that 13th century, at that time, practice was, each one of them felt that just staying with one practice was the way to practice. not to mix things up or to make it complicated. So chanting the name of Buddha was very uncomplicated. You didn't have to do anything else. You didn't even have to observe the precepts. And anyone could be saved by chanting the name of Buddha, which is very, you know, you have your big opportunity. Well, you know, there's something to that. because it's just pure faith. So when Dogen talks about faith, he means, faith is also the fundamental of Soto Zen. Without faith, you can't practice Soto Zen.

[21:51]

But it's not like faith is the one thing that you, faith in being saved by Amida Buddha is not the same. So people chant in order to enter the pure land of Amida Buddha. So that's a whole other area which I'm not prepared to talk about. And so, when Dogen says, though practice varies, initiated by faith or Dharma knowledge, when he says by faith, he's talking about possibly the Jodo Shinshu path. At one time, though, in one place he says, it's just like the croaking of frogs. But you know, if you think about all, you know,

[22:55]

All beings are chanting the name of Buddha. Frogs are definitely chanting the name of Buddha. If you just listen. And crickets also. So, But here he says, but we always depend on practice to go beyond enlightenment. So Shinran's stance was that because it's the degenerate age of the Dharma, mapo, that there's no way that you could be saved through practice. Not possible. It was just too difficult. So there were the three ages. There was this, a doctrine that some people, most people believed was that after the first 500 years, the first 500 years after Buddha was, it would be possible to practice Buddhism in it correctly.

[24:13]

The second 500 years, it was kind of imitation. The third 500 years was just impossible. Huh? Well, we're way beyond all that. We're beyond mapo. But Dogen said, don't pay any attention to that. That's just, you know, that's just somebody's idea, some idea, and you shouldn't be bound by that way of thinking. But a lot of people were. And at that time, Buddhism was in a very degenerate state. So Dogen felt like he was reviving Buddhism. And that's why he's so adamant about what he's talking about. Not like he stepped into an environment where he felt that people were really practicing. And there was almost no Zen in Japan when Dogen came back from China, or went to China.

[25:21]

Except for Esai. And Eisai went to China and brought back the Rinzai school to Japan, but he wasn't allowed to just have a Zen practice. I think I talked about this before. Because of the pressures of the Tendai and Shingon schools, which were the dominant schools at the time, when Eisai came back, those schools said, The leaders of those schools said, well, there's no need to have a Zen school since we also have a Zen practice within our practice. Because the Tendai school is an eclectic practice, which includes all of the practices of Buddhism. And Zen is just one of their practices. So, Eisai was kind of bound by that. He couldn't really He didn't feel free to just have a Zen school.

[26:26]

He had to incorporate the other practices as well. But Dogen wasn't bound by that. So Dogen was really the first completely Zen practitioner or Zen teacher in Japan. And so when he's talking to people who have various ideas about Buddhism, various ideas about what Zen is, and various practices, and he's saying, this is the practice I brought from China, and I feel this is the true practice of Zen. And if you want to practice it, this is how you do it. So we have to understand the context and the time in which he lived and what he was trying to do. And sometimes he seems very strict and moralistic and sometimes uptight and whatever, you know. But he's talking to these monks, Andalite people, but mostly monks, and he's,

[27:34]

trying to get them to let go of their ideas and to, he's trying to educate them and incorporate his teaching into their practice. So he's saying, you really have to practice. In order to do this, you have to practice. That's all he's really saying throughout the whole thing. He's just talking about that in different ways. So he says, the practice varies, initiated by either faith or dharma knowledge, with emphasis on sudden or gradual enlightenment. You always depend on practice to go beyond enlightenment. So going beyond enlightenment is a very important aspect of what he's talking about. Enlightenment is one side, and delusion is another side.

[28:41]

We usually think about going beyond delusion to get to enlightenment. I mean, that's logical. That's putting the cart, the horse before the cart, that you put, you know, the horse leads and the cart follows, right? So you put enlightenment, the goal is the horse is pulling the cart toward enlightenment. But Dogen says, in our practice, do you whip the cart or do you whip the horse? There's a whole koan about this, but it says, in our practice, we whip the cart in order to make it go. That's a good koan. We whip the cart. How do you make the cart go? We whip the cart. Sudden enlightenment is the Zen school.

[29:48]

But within the Zen school, there's also sudden and gradual, and enlightenment and delusion. So if when we talk about enlightenment, we also talk about delusion, that's a duality. Talk about enlightenment and delusion, that's a duality. So if you only have the enlightenment, which is the opposite of delusion, then it's not really enlightenment. It's still dualistic. So you have to go beyond enlightenment. So that delusion and enlightenment, you don't get rid of delusion in order to have enlightenment. You have enlightenment within delusion and delusion within enlightenment. So there's going beyond delusion. Going beyond enlightenment and delusion.

[30:53]

And then there's step by step. The Zen school is the sudden school where one practices for a long time and then suddenly everything opens up. But, and gradual practice is called stepladder practice. You know, when the Tibetans look at our practice, they say, oh, that's advanced practice. Where do you start? That's where we start. We start at the end. In other words, we don't have any steps. There are stages sometimes. We can delineate stages, but strictly speaking, there are no stages. There are no steps to nirvana, no steps to enlightenment. So Zen practice is like diving off into the water and then just thrashing around, learning how to swim.

[31:59]

So you sink or you swim or you get out. Within certain Zen practices, there are stages. But within our practice, there are no stages. That's why our practice looks kind of weird, you know. formless, a little bit formless. People try and grope around to, you know, where's the form? So, our practice in Zendo is very formal. That gives it some form, but basically it's very, it's formless. So, sometimes people complain, they say, well, how come your practice is so formal? Well, it's the only thing we've got. So then he says, though study can be superficial or profound, and students can be sharp or dull, accumulated study earns wealth.

[33:16]

This does not necessarily depend on the king's excellence or inability, nor should it depend on one's having good or bad luck. If someone were to get wealth without studying, how could that person transmit the way in which ancient kings, in times of either order or disorder, ruled the country? If you were to gain realization without practice, how could you comprehend the Tathagata's teaching of delusion and enlightenment?" So he's just comparing, you know, he's comparing Zen practice and enlightenment with worldly study and accomplishment, just equating the two. So, I think practice, practice, practice. Five minutes of practice is five minutes of enlightenment. One hour of practice, one hour of enlightenment.

[34:23]

But then you say, but I didn't feel any enlightenment. I'm just as unenlightened as I ever was. It's because we have some idea of what we think enlightenment is. And as long as you have that idea, your idea will not be matched. So idea of enlightenment is a hindrance. You know, it's like, and this is, this is why it's so important to just practice without, you know, the thought of enlightenment becomes subsumed into practice and it's no longer a thought. As long as the thought of enlightenment is just an idea, it's not just a thought.

[35:27]

So negotiating the way, the thought of enlightenment becomes subsumed into negotiating the way, and negotiating the way becomes subsumed into just daily practice. So thought of enlightenment is kind of like a ticket, you know, to the movies. Then you get in the movie and then you don't have to think about it anymore. You just, you know, inside. I wrote myself a note here that says, the light of the mind brings us to practice. And practice reveals that light. the light of the mind brings us to practice. Now, what brings us to practice? We don't know. We have various ideas of why we come to practice, but the light of the mind brings us to practice, and practice reveals that mind.

[36:38]

It reveals that light. Which is also indicative of you get what you give. You can't get something, but whatever it is that you give, that's what you get. So, when you practice sincerely, then you get sincerity. When you practice hard, with difficulties, then you become mature. What do we want? But if you don't pay the dues, you don't get the stuff.

[37:40]

In other words, you get what you pay for. If you don't pay enough, you don't get any more than what you pay for. It's very simple. So then he says, if you have some question or you want to discuss something, please. Well, that's okay. You were mentioning the eras, we're on a much more interesting wave right now, but you were mentioning the decline and the time when... Oh yeah, the three times. It was just a question as to whether at that time, whether the majority of people took that literally or recognized it as a metaphor for

[38:44]

process of degeneration that happens to things that began pure and are susceptible to degeneration? Well, you know, there's some truth to what he's saying. I mean, there's some truth to the three times. There's some truth to that. But if you believe that, if you think that that's the way things have to go, then that's a kind of fatalistic view. And it's an important point because Buddhism is not fatalistic. And so, but if you think about it in those terms, then you're thinking in a fatalistic way. And so each one of those three teachers tried to address the ancient Mapo in their own way. And Dogen's way was to say, you know, we can revive Buddhism.

[39:53]

We don't have to let it degenerate just because it's going that way. And it is true. Something starts out as a very tight, you know, germ, seed, and then as it, you know, as flowers become bigger, They unfold and then pretty soon, like roses, they get real big and then the petals all start dropping off, right? But then there are new petals. So the vine itself is alive. And even though the flowers may open up and drop, new flowers are always coming out as long as we nourish the vine. It's time for break already? Okay. Five minutes. But I don't know, what do you think? Do you think we should talk to each other or just kind of remain quiet?

[40:56]

I think if we remain quiet, we'll kind of keep the mood, the tone. It's nice, last time I heard people talking to each other that I don't usually see talking to each other, you know, and that was really nice. But I think the purpose of the glass is to keep quiet and go to the bathroom or stand up or whatever. What it means is beyond the duality basically of delusion and enlightenment as a duality. You know, there's some schools which start from delusion and work their way up to enlightenment, right?

[42:01]

We start with enlightenment, our practice starts with enlightenment, as well as delusion. But we don't work our way toward enlightenment from delusion. That's step-by-step practice. We don't have that. We simply start from enlightenment, but we don't know what that is. So even though we have basically, you know, that's why engaging in practice is an enlightened act, but we don't necessarily realize our enlightenment. Even though we can have enlightenment, we don't realize what that is. Just like we don't realize a lot of things about ourselves, even though we do. We don't realize all of our delusion, much less our enlightenment, but we have plenty of it.

[43:09]

So to realize our delusion, to really understand and realize our delusion, that's enlightenment. So delusion and enlightenment go together. But if you only think of them as separate, it's not true enlightenment. True enlightenment is beyond delusion and enlightenment. The same as with emptiness and form. Emptiness, yeah, same. Emptiness and form, form is emptiness. Enlightenment is delusion, delusion is enlightenment. So beyond enlightenment, you can think of it as meaning beyond the concept of enlightenment, and beyond the duality of enlightenment as opposed to delusion.

[44:15]

I remember Suzuki Roshi talking about, you may think that when you get enlightened that you will no longer have a craving for an ice cream cone. But when you walk by the ice cream store, So Dogen says, you should know that arousing practice in the midst of delusion, you attain realization before you recognize it. And I think it's in Fukan Tsuzingi where he says, Some may have it and some may not. But whether you have it or not, practice is just practice.

[45:25]

Whether you have realization of your enlightenment or not, practice is just practice. It doesn't matter. So it's great if you realize your enlightenment. But whether you realize it or not, practice is practice. So practice is more important than attaining enlightenment. But we always think that practice, that enlightenment is the gem, the thing that we want to get. Because Buddhism is about enlightenment. But this is a loaded term. And we have to be very careful of this term because It looks like something out there. And it's not something out there. It's something, it's like, you know, in Buddhism, we also say to get rid of suffering, right? But getting rid of suffering is to be free within the midst of suffering.

[46:29]

And it also means to realize enlightenment within your delusion. And we may think, well, once I get enlightened, all my troubles will be over. But this is just the beginning of your troubles. Suzuki Yoshi used to say also that, I remember he'd say, be careful what you wish for. When you get enlightened, you may not like it. I think that's a great statement. When you get enlightened, you may not like it, so be careful. Why wouldn't we like it? Because we don't want to see the truth. It's simply seeing the truth, that's all. Still, it doesn't mean that we won't have painful experiences.

[47:37]

So this sentence of Dogen's is really nice. You should know that arousing practice in the midst of delusion, you attain realization. I would say attain enlightenment rather than realization here before you recognize it because Enlightenment is the thing, and realization is realizing it. So we can have enlightenment, but we don't necessarily realize it. Well, it's like when you eat ice cream, you know what it tastes like. You may eat ice cream, but you never really know what it tastes like. Oh, this is what it tastes like. So, you know, Kwaishan.

[48:44]

had a saying, he says, it's like, you know, walking in the fog, you feel, your clothes get wet unaware. If you walk in the rain, you know that your clothes are getting wet, but when you walk in the fog, you don't realize that your clothes are getting wet until you feel them, right? So your clothes are wet, But when you feel it, you realize they're wet, right? And practice is, realization is really like that. You know, there's the big bang, so to speak, called enlightenment, flash of lightning, right? Which is what is put forth in the books to popularize Zen. But it's more like walking in a fog, you realize that your clothes are wet after a while.

[49:58]

It's like, oh yeah, this has been happening for a while and I just didn't realize it. So it's like waking up to what's there. So realization is waking up to what's there. And what's there can be there, but you don't wake up to it. So when we say we start with enlightenment, that's true, but we don't wake up to it. And then at some point you realize, you have realization and you wake up to it. and you realize, well, this has always been there. It's not something new, not something that, but I just never saw this before, but it's always been there. So enlightenment is the most obvious thing in your life. Who was first?

[51:03]

Well, What about somebody who doesn't practice Zen? Are they enlightened also? Well, enlightenment is the thought of enlightenment and the way-seeking mind. So when you actually bring your way-seeking mind to practice, that's Bodhi mind. And then it's the enlightenment brings you to practice. So people may have dormant enlightenment. Everyone does have dormant enlightenment, but they don't necessarily awaken it through practice. Not a duality, simply, you know,

[52:08]

Some people go to the beach and go swimming and other people don't, but you don't say that's a duality between the people that go to the beach and the people that don't. Well, I guess enlightenment is such a loaded term that it seems like saying that some people have enlightenment and other people don't seems like a bigger duality than swimming or not swimming. Well, but why is it a duality? But he didn't say that some people have it and some people don't. He said everyone has it and some people go to practice. Yeah. It's brought forth through practice. It's like practice is the catalyst You may have all the materials for resin, but when you put just the right catalyst there, it becomes what it is.

[53:26]

So if you have, what kind of car do you have? A Volkswagen. You have your Volkswagen out there. And we call that the car, right? But until you get into the car, put in the key, turn the ignition on, and the car starts, it's not really functioning as a car, right? So that's the same thing. That's called the practice of driving the car. The car isn't a car totally until you wake it up. So it's something called awakening. So awakening is a good term, you know. So people have dormant or the potential for enlightenment. Everyone has the potential for enlightenment because everyone is Buddha nature, right? We all have that nature and the potential for enlightenment.

[54:30]

And when the enlightenment is awakened, then enlightenment brings you to practice. then practice opens up the enlightenment. It's not that you're discriminating against people. You actually want them all to come to practice. So what is the essence of practice that wakes it up? What is the absence of practice? or at the car. Right. Well, for us, the essence of practice is zazen. We have the, it's very simple. We have the ability to do zazen and to let go of everything. To totally let go of discriminating mind.

[55:36]

and dualistic discriminating mind, and harmonize body, breath, and mind with universal mind. So it's not that we discriminate against people who don't practice. We wish they would. we wish there would be less mayhem in the world. Susan? Well, maybe this is a variation on that question, but are there other ways of practicing besides Zazen that can also bring forth enlightenment and awaken enlightenment? Zazen does not have to be the only practice that will awaken enlightenment, does it? But it depends on what you call Zazen.

[56:43]

A Catholic priest might not call what he does Zazen. Right, but you know, every school, almost every school of Buddhism will say that the necessary ingredient is meditation. This is the fundamental practice of Buddhism in all schools, is meditation of one kind or another. So you have to ask them. There are all kinds of variants. And within Buddhism, there's the fundamentals of Buddhism.

[57:46]

And Shinran said, you can't practice Buddhism. That's why he did this, right? So this is called salvation through other power. It's called salvation through other power, through supplication. It's a kind of meditation, actually, to sincerely chant the name of Buddha. That's a meditation practice, even though it may not be thought of as a meditation practice. It is, because it's a merging with Amida Buddha, Amitabha. So it's very simple. chanting the name of the Lotus Sutra is a kind of meditation practice. So studying the scriptures can be a kind of meditation practice, but it's not practice because it's practicing through information.

[59:04]

Practice is not information. But if you study the Lotus Sutra as a meditation practice without understanding the words, that's probably better. It's like chanting the Heart Sutra in Japanese. You're not trying to get the information about what it means, you're just simply chanting it totally and sincerely with your heart. And your whole body, mind is doing this one thing. So that's a kind of zazen. But pure zazen is sitting without trying to gain anything. So if you want to become Buddha, and Dogen talks about this, if you want to attain Buddhahood or if you want to be born in the pure land, that's an attainment. Pure practice is without any attainment. So that's why Zazen is so fundamental.

[60:14]

When we get down to it, what is the most fundamental practice? It's Zazen. If you can find something more fundamental, you should do it. Really and truly. Yeah. What about tenzos? Someone's working as a tenzo day in, day out, for five years or ten years. Would that be equivalent? Well, somebody doesn't work for five or ten years as a tenzo without sitting zazen, too. Usually a tenzo works for one or two years being tenzo. And, you know, depending on where you are, You can work a whole practice period in the kitchen. That's Zazen. The reason why it's Zazen is because you have Zazen practice.

[61:18]

And whatever you do is extended as Zazen practice. But if you're only working in the kitchen without doing Zazen, without Zazen being your practice, then it's just working in the kitchen. That's okay. You know what? Just paint. Don't worry about it. Painting is painting. When painting is painting, you are you. Don't worry about it. We wanted, what we'd like to do, you know, is say, well, is this Zazen? Is this Zazen? If we worry about it in that way, it's not Zazen. But if you have a Zazen practice, then you, I don't wanna say extend, but with the same attitude, you do whatever you're doing without a gaining mind, without a creating an egotistical self.

[62:30]

Is this Zazen? Is this Zazen? Don't worry about it. Just do Zazen and then do your work. And just be totally engrossed in your work without self-criticism or self-doubt. Thanks. I needed you to say that. Ross, I'm sorry. I neglected you. You're beyond the pillar. How is realizing the taste of the ice cream cone saving all beings? Well, you're saving them from getting fat. One less ice cream cone in the world. It seems like it's around expectations.

[63:38]

Having something in your mind and it prevents you from experiencing the present moment. Exactly right. And you eat the ice cream cone. This doesn't taste as good as that chocolate cone I had before. I thought this was going to be like your dessert. That's right. Just eat the ice cream cone. Yes, it's the expectation, you know. Expectation. We want it to be this way, we want it to be that way. The expectation has a place, definitely has a place. But the problem is that we become attached to the expectation. It's okay, well I expect it to be this way, but it's not, okay. Okay, this is what it is. So the expectation stops us from seeing what really is there. That's called discrimination. So we can't see things clearly, really, because of discriminating mind.

[64:40]

And so we struggle in zazen, you know, we have this struggle in zazen, because we can't see things clearly. we have expectation, and things come up we don't like, things come up we do like, and we become attached to them. And then Zazen is our teacher. More than anything else in your life, Zazen will teach us if you just let it. So, you know, If you just chant the name of Buddha without any expectation, that's good practice. If you just chant the name of the Lotus Sutra without any expectation or any desire, that's good practice. If you just chant the Heart Sutra without any expectation or even wondering about what it means with your total body and mind, that's good practice.

[65:47]

How does one will oneself to do something without having expectations? Like, why sit down in the morning without some... Well, you simply present yourself. You simply open yourself up and just accept what comes. But in the moment when you sit down to do it, unwilling yourself to sit down, You're willing yourself to sit down, yeah. You expect to sit for the length of time that you said you would sit, that's all. And then you make a big effort. But that's why I say, it's not that there's no expectation of anything in the world, but when you start to refine it down to, it's like when we talk about desire, you know, to let go of desires. It doesn't mean to let go of the desire to eat, or desire to sleep, or desire to wear clothes or something.

[66:52]

Simply means getting attached to desire, or getting attached to expectation, right? Or letting desire rule you, or letting expectation be dominant in your mind. So I just wanted to finish this. So he said, you should know that arousing, that the arousing practice, arousing practice in the midst of delusion, you attain realization before you recognize. So within the midst of delusion, we arouse our practice. That's, we don't have to know anything. We don't have to be good at anything. All we have to do is come to practice in the midst of our delusion. And so that's a great opportunity that we have. It's not like there's some test. You know, if you pass this test, you can get into the zendo.

[67:53]

Just walk in and do it. And you don't even know what it is. We have some idea about what it is, but we don't usually know what it is that we're doing, what we're doing zazen. mostly. At this time, you first know that the raft of discourse is like yesterday's dream, and you finally cut off your old understanding bound up in the vines and serpents of words. This is not made to happen by Buddha, but is accomplished by your all-encompassing effort. Your effort is the most important thing. Moreover, what practice calls forth is enlightenment. Your treasure house does not come from outside. How enlightenment functions is through practice. How could actions of mind ground go astray? Mind ground is like enlightenment, actually.

[68:59]

So if you turn the eye of enlightenment and reflect back on the realm of practice, nothing in particular hits the eye. You can't point to anything. You just see white clouds for 10,000 miles. If you arouse practice as though climbing the steps of enlightenment, not even a speck of dust will support your feet. You will be as far from true practice as heaven is from earth. Now, step back and leap beyond the Buddha land. If you read the Platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch, he says, the pure land is not in the West. The pure land is not so many yojanas in the West. The pure land is within your own mind. So,

[70:03]

When you practice in this way, enlightenment unfolds, and nirvana unfolds, and the pure land is right there in your own mind, in your body mind. It's not someplace you go to, it's someplace that you find within yourself. You know, we always have this idea about, well, what about other people, you know, and their practices? Well, what other people do and what their practices are are sometimes fine and sometimes not. And, you know, why don't we do what they do? And why don't they do it? Well, there are 12 schools of Buddhism which have 12 different approaches.

[71:09]

And each approach has its own virtue. And pretty much they're the same. They have the same goals and basis. But they approach the Dharma from a certain aspect. So if you're over here, you can criticize that one over there, and that one can criticize you, and people do that, but it's not necessary, and I don't like doing it, I think. Every practice has its own virtue, and those people who are drawn to those aspects of practice should do that. And we should encourage people to do whichever practice they feel is the right practice for them, with a practice they have affinity for. So some people have affinity for this practice.

[72:13]

Some people have affinity for Pure Land or for Nichiren or for Shingon or whatever. And that's the practice that people should practice because they have that affinity. And the reason why there are these schools is because people have affinities. So we appreciate everyone's approach in everyone's practice. And we may not even think that it's so good, but it's okay. You know, it's okay. Why should we, you know... We have our understanding and our approach and If people want to practice this practice, they can. So we say, this is the best way. And then someone else says about their practice, this is the best way.

[73:17]

And then if you argue about which is the best way, neither one of them know the best way. Because they're only the best way for those people who practice them. But they're not the best way for someone else. But it's still the best way. So there are 12 best ways. depending on who you are. How much time do we have? Five minutes? Yeah, Andrea? are quite deluded within their delusions, and yet they appear to have sincere effort in their practice. And so I wonder, what is it about what qualities of practice bring about the ripening of mature practice? Yeah, well being deluded within delusion, you know, is the highest. Yeah, it's really the highest.

[74:22]

Some are deluded within delusion. That's like, there's nothing but delusion. When there's nothing but delusion, totally delusional, then it's enlightenment. I don't know how to ask this in a clever way then, but the question really is, how can one practice very sincerely for many, many, many years and still keep not seeing? Right, but there's enlightenment within the sincere practice. We actually see that. We recognize that there's enlightenment within this, even though the person looks dumb, or it looks like they didn't get it, or something like that. Within that sincere practice, there's enlightenment.

[75:28]

So the main thing about practice is not whether you reach some stage or have some ability. It's whether or not you actually approach practice with sincere effort. And in terms of our effects on other people then, I think I understand what you're saying. And for someone who sees and appreciates that, one sees and appreciates the sincerity of effort, but for one who doesn't practice, who's in the outside of our practice, there are those impacts. And so I guess if I aspire to something, it's that the way I carry myself has some positive effect more than it has a negative effect. And so I wonder about that. I wonder about what it is, what qualities of practice help Yeah, selflessness is the greatest quality.

[76:37]

And in someone who has ability, lack of pride, absence of pride, pride is the most difficult thing for people with ability. So people have great ability, but if they have pride, they're at the bottom. where someone who has no ability but who really struggles and really is sincere and is not egotistical and doesn't have this big idea about themselves, they're actually at the top, so to speak. So it's not based on ability or not ability or whatever, it's based on sincerity and practice. Effort. Effort. Someone with great ability usually has a lot of ability up here.

[77:57]

But someone who has real ability has ability here.

[78:02]

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