I vow to take this truth and to talk it as it were. Good morning. Some of you come barefoot. It just didn't seem like there were that many shoes out there. The last time I spoke here, it seemed like quite a while ago. Oh, by the way, I know many of you, but for those of you who don't My name's Peter Overton, and I live here in Berkeley, and practiced at San Francisco Zen Center for 10, 15 years, and then moved to Berkeley to raise my family, and we live not far from here. The last time I was here, I think that I was talking about the topic finding one's practice in everyday life, everyday life situations.

[01:04]

And I find myself returning to this topic again. I spend maybe an inordinate amount of time in everyday life situations, but I can't quite shake it. I guess my point of departure has to do with how we cultivate awareness of the kind of all-inclusive awareness. And I always come back to the practice of Zazen, where we sit, in this case, in a very nice space. It's quiet. Everyone is behaving themselves very nicely. And it's a beautiful room. and we arrange our cushions so that we're comfortable and cross our legs and we take a comfortable upright posture and arrange our clothes carefully and hold our hands carefully in a mudra, what I call this mudra.

[02:19]

And the way we practice our awareness, this kind of feeling of it, is a little bit like how we hold these thumbs together. It's like when we instruct each other about zazen, we talk about touching, but not touching, there isn't. We're not resting our thumbs together, and we're not letting them fall apart, hopefully, although occasionally they fall apart as we drift off. But in cultivating our awareness, we often come back to a very careful placing, very careful, touching but not touching. And this is how we pay attention to all the phenomena that we're aware of in Zazen. The sounds, pain in our legs perhaps, whatever we happen to be aware of.

[03:26]

It's this kind of lightness. It's there. but we're not going to lean on it, we're not going to kind of grab onto it. Now, we come to understand this way of relating to our experience through the practices of Zen, and often the next question is, well, what do we do after we walk out the door? What do we do when, you know, when we go home and it's time to get the kids out of the house? You know, all the kinds of or the kinds of crazy, chaotic situations, we always want somehow to return to this practice. So it may be that the question is, well, how do we cultivate this kind of awareness in other situations? What is it that supports this kind of awareness? experience in practice.

[04:30]

I've tried a lot of different things, some related to exerting a lot of willpower to try and remain mindful as I proceed through the day, which usually ends in disaster. But the question is, well, what was the sphere of that mindfulness? What was I really being aware of? And what is that sphere of mindfulness really supported by the environment I'm in. In the Zendo, we come and adjust ourselves. We work at it. And sometimes, not everybody's comfortable in this kind of situation or in this room, but most of us, if we continue to come, we adjust ourselves and become. We get clues from the situation, from how we feel about being in the room. We generally start to pay attention. more and more closely to all the different things that come into our awareness. However, when we're in other situations, then we have to find a new sphere of awareness, a new kind of mudra.

[05:39]

What is the mudra in your everyday life situations? How is it that you... What is the sphere of that awareness? And what I'd like to suggest is that that changes. as life, as the day goes by, depending on where you're at and what you're up to, what you're doing. And that each situation has the potential to support your mindfulness. It has, you know, if you're, you know, If you go into work, there's a different group of people, different kinds of activities and motions. And all of those kinds of things, if you check your awareness and say, oh yeah, here, this is the body, this is my body here. In the Zen Dojo, we know about our body.

[06:42]

We kind of tend to bring, come back to that sphere. But in other situations, your body actually changes, and your body includes other people who are doing things and speaking to you. And I think a lot of San Francisco Zen Center, where I practiced for some time, how when you sit there in the Zen Dojo, there's this enormous amount of traffic noise. And it's almost unbelievable that we could have a meditation hall in the middle of a rush hour. When I go there these days and I hear the traffic, I think, oh, how restful, you know. It's because somehow I've learned in the traffic noises that, you know, cars haven't changed that much, so the noises are very similar to the way they used to be. And in that situation, it comes back to me what this fear or awareness is and how to pay attention to it lightly. Now,

[07:45]

There's many other things that are represented with in our daily life that, you know, encompass more subtle realms, you know, like people talking to us. You turn on the radio and you listen to the news. You have conversations with people at work about things going on in your community. You become involved in the world of ideas And that is all, and also in the realm of activity, which is necessarily involved in goals and expectations, you're trying to get something done. But those are all pieces of the puzzle. I mean, we experience in Dzogchen a great sort of sense of reflection between our inner and outer worlds. We can rest very deeply

[08:49]

and in very deep awareness of our inner world, and at the same time be extraordinarily sensitive to what we hear and smell and feel on a more tangible level. And it's the same in other situations, that the turmoil, there's more action, and that is why it is more difficult. why we create a situation like this end of, because in fact everyday life is extremely difficult to cope with the amount of change and turmoil that's occurring constantly. I used to find that some of my quietest times was riding home on the bus, because there was nothing expected of me. what was happening. But we need to take a step further than that, of course, and be able to cultivate that kind of awareness in our activity, in which we are acting, we are taking actions, we are trying to achieve something.

[10:01]

And of course, perhaps the key to this is accepting that what we're doing, these goals and expectations are merely part of the scenery of what's happening. You know, our kind of experience is to be thoroughly identified with the thing we are trying to do in the moment. And that's not so terrible, but when it becomes an extremely narrow focus, then we easily fall on our face. So what this brings up, I don't know whether I'm digressing now or not, but what this brings up for me are two sides.

[11:08]

One is cultivating are sort of all-embracing, lightly touching awareness of our experience, inner and outer, from moment to moment. This kind of not touching, touching but not touching, it implies an attitude of being non-judgmental, of not taking one side or the other. So there's that. And then there's what we do constantly. Take one side or the other. Choose this, choose that. Do this and not do that. I tried to ask, the other night I tried to ask Akinroshi about this particular problem. He seemed to be talking about it in some sense, bringing up, making a

[12:11]

critique of Zen practice from the point of view of this particular question. And he was saying that there are teachers and students now and in the past who cleave to a narrow conception of ultimate reality. It's not so much different from cleaving to a narrow conception of what I want right now. or what I am worried about, or what I'm going to do five minutes from now, but perhaps close itself differently. So this is a little bit of a question of, well, things are this way, which is huge, and we can't grasp, and we don't understand. And on the other hand, what should we do?

[13:15]

Now, to some extent, you know, it sort of brings up this question, well, what are the precepts about? A disciple of the Buddha does not kill, does not steal, does not abuse, in the sense, does not abuse sexuality, etc. Precepts are interesting because, in some sense, they work. There are statements of both sides of the coin. You know, in reality, you cannot cut something off. You cannot kill anything. And if we operate under the delusion that we can kill something, we'll probably go out and kill. But if you recognize that you can't kill, then kind of natural human response is not to try.

[14:18]

So, you know, it's kind of interesting that many different spiritual traditions have evolved statements about, like this, statements about appropriate behavior or appropriate response. And there's always a lot of confusion about, well, on what level should we Should we deal with these things? Are these rules for our behavior which we should follow studiously? Or are they simply... What do they mean? And we talk about this kind of thing quite a bit. Because it is difficult. There are these different levels inherent in the statement. But I think there's a sort of a beautiful complementarity between these different interpretations, the most literal and the most sort of universal seem to come together in the precepts in the way we understand them as both expressing the impossibility of killing and at the same time the kind of imperative not to violate that realization by falling, cleaving

[15:39]

that we can in fact do that. And I think the reason how this relates to what I was bringing up initially is the question of activities with respect to the Zen Center or in work. Constantly, one is confronted with these kinds of questions. So we often look for some guide to help us get through the situation. And there's, you know, I think probably long discussion in Buddhist circles about what really is the source of ethical precepts.

[16:44]

I guess what I'm suggesting is that the source of these kinds of things is in this embracing this all-inclusive realization that, you know, what is. and that that is the wellspring for human responses which find their expression in our precepts. But we relate to the precepts in different ways. We study them. We observe them. And in that particular activity, it's the reason why you know, we don't really follow them as rules of behavior because where we seek to come from, where we seek to express those truths is spontaneously, from moment to moment.

[17:49]

And that's kind of, you know, that's where their power comes from. It's not as though we can put out, this is what we believe, but we can enact it. And that creates a That is the sort of, the kind of power or... That's what gives these expressions life, is the place where we're coming from as we enact them. So in studying the precepts or observing the precepts, we are sort of questioning them. We're saying, what do they mean? What do they mean in this situation? Is that valid now? Or is it, you know, what's the most valid and true expression of this great realization?

[18:58]

the identity of practice and realization, of not going to one side or going to the other, but embodying our realization in everyday practice. I read a, I get this, some of you probably a slick Buddhist monthly or quarterly, comes from New York, and it's very interesting. They have nice letters sometimes, and they take on current controversial issues and kind of create sort of trouble for everybody by reading them, for everybody who reads them. And a recent article, I can't remember, I don't know how recent this was, I just picked it up, expressing rather wide range of points of view.

[20:09]

And a couple of the articles were critiques from the point of view of, you know, that in order to understand what to do, to understand how to respond to the that we need to embrace the whole thing as sacred, every bit of it. This is a kind of macro analogy to what I'm trying to talk about. I found this rather oddly inspiring. I'm sort of amazed at what inspires me. this notion of that every phenomenon, social, political, mental, emotional, physical, is sacred and that from that, from embracing all of that, you know, a really deeply human response comes forth to it

[21:36]

have to cope with. So in some sense, that kind of mudra, that kind of sphere of mindfulness that includes basically everything we know about And what do we do with it? Again, we can't sort of... It's not a bandwagon to jump onto. It's not something to get excited about. It is simply part of our... part of our being is the biggest possible... biggest possible awareness of that we, on a certain scale, on the biggest possible sphere of awareness that we can generate, in the same way, requires the same attitude and level of attention, the same touching but not touching.

[22:55]

Yes, I'd really like that. One feeling, but I guess the feeling that I wrestle with or hear a little bit,

[24:03]

from everyday activity, and then we still our minds and our hearts and our bodies to a place where we're not attached to all these things. We don't have over too much pull on us. And then we come up with some really deep thing that's going to open you back up to the world. And what I'm wondering is, it seems like a kind of backwards to find something that really drives us through all of our activities, if we do it through a process that removes us too much from all of those things temporarily, that we come up with something that is still dualistic, and not really from, you know, deep within our heart, something that's from love. Maybe I'll just make a couple of comments in response. We've been around the concepts of emptiness and non-attachment quite a lot, and there are some meanings out there which are sort of problematical, which really aren't consistent with our deepest sense of practice.

[25:52]

But mostly what I wanted to say about that was that when I'm referring to a sort of universal embracing of all phenomena. To me, that is the same thing. So, like I said, there's nothing outside. In emptiness, there's nothing outside. When I asked Akinroshi about this kind of thing, this problem of, you know, what's it like to make choices or decisions from a non-dualistic place, he talked about you know, our usual sort of mental phenomenon, which kind of rattles on and on and on and on. And he says, well, however you approach, you know, kind of finding some peace,

[26:54]

however you kind of, whatever metaphor you want to use to describe that, whether it's letting go of that, or just finding peace, or embracing it, so that it basically just sort of settles down of its own accord, at some point, you know what to do. There's not an ambivalence about it. And that was his response. I'm not trying to describe a process by which one realizes a great truth. It's like in our dualistic activity, that's the sphere in which we are realizing this great truth, making it part of our world. Oh yes.

[28:04]

I mean, what we want as human beings is something simplistic. Something we can get a hold of. And we're suckers for it. I just thought of two things while you were talking. One was, the first thing was ants. My relationship to ants. And the second one was work. When you said the notion that everything is sacred, I just couldn't make that fit with walking in the door to my office.

[29:04]

There isn't some sphere of something that... Then I thought, oh, this is interesting. I mean, some part of me acknowledges that. What is your relationship with ants? I smash them with my, the scalps, with my finger. And in this particular place, there's a constant, it's not like, oh, there's this line of ants coming in the window, so let's put a little high M so that they get the idea that they should go the other way. It's like they're sort of, they're sort of, than with anything whatsoever.

[30:23]

And I'm not comfortable with what, I mean, I used to automatically do that. I used to wipe away holes, massacre, slaughter, you know, just ant slaughter. And I'm not willing to change my behavior. But I'm not comfortable with doing it. It's a very, Well, actually, you have changed your behavior. Because you're not comfortable with it. Yeah, but I'm still... Yeah, I know. But the part of the picture is how you feel. In other words, it's not just your behavior, what you do with the sponge in your hand. It's the rest of it as well. So you're kind of trying to change your relationship with the ants. I mean, insects are interesting because you can really project an extraordinary amount of something on insects. And that's really unfortunate, you know, it's really too bad for them. That's kind of really what, in some sense, maybe that's the heart of the problem, is that there's this energy that wants to deny something, this existence.

[31:34]

It can make you buggy. Yes, yes, it can make you buggy. You can get into very, you can get into But on the other hand, you have to take care of your house, and you have to kind of, you know, there are limits. And I say, this is what goes on here, and this doesn't go on here. So, it's a struggle, but it seems like you're already changing. Yes? Well, I am actually. Yeah.

[32:35]

Being aware of that is then part of your world. One of the things is we sometimes have to make difficult choices and all we can do is to do our best. But sometimes doing our best just isn't good enough. So we have to deal with the fact that it wasn't good enough. that you don't feel right about it, or that somebody's upset with you, or that, you know, there are ants stuck in your sponge, or something, you know. I mean, there's something, you know, there's some residue. And then, again, that's part of our awareness, is not ignoring that little feeling that's sort of knocking. And the more you ignore it, the louder the knocking gets, of course. is the way he, when you ask him a question, even in a crowded room, he completely addresses you.

[33:54]

He's there for you 100%. And so the question is, are we there for those ants when we're apologizing? How much can we give ourselves to that gesture? Can you say something about full awareness of our ordinary life and then not getting so caught up in it that we forget to let go? So it's like the touching, not touching. Perhaps also going back to Akin Roshi's comment about people coming to him and proclaiming their awareness or their wakefulness or enlightenment, and then seeing that they haven't really embodied that spirit. Because as a practice, it's very easy to be aware of all the things that we're doing, and we can kind of build up points. Or good karma. Yeah, in a sense.

[34:55]

But at the same time, we have to let go, be aware be aware of the touching, be aware of ourselves in the universe and then let go of that and then operate. Where is the barometer check? Well, besides the teacher, maybe the teacher is the final word. Because a lot of people, you know, we're practicing in the world, we come to Sishin, we have doksang with Mel or a senior student, but much of our life is left to our own devices. Well, you mean, what's the... Well, I'm not really focused on what you're trying to ask, but... Well, it's like Eric Koch said, you know, how am I doing? You know, it's kind of slippery. It is very slippery, you know, and I suspect I've created lots of confusion talking about it. Awareness isn't slippery.

[36:00]

No, being aware is pretty concrete, but the letting go and that little dance that we do. Well, it's just that everything's changing. So we can be aware of what's going on, or at least feel like we're cultivating that awareness, and then the situation changes. And, you know, are we flexible enough? Can we stand the pain enough to kind of become aware of some more stuff? Or, you know, are we going to kind of just try and shut that out and be aware of these things over here because, you know, I've kind of figured out how to do that. And it makes me feel good. I mean, one of the things you were saying reminded me of this point that, you know, when we practice diligently, it's good. And although it's good, and that's better than perhaps bad, we still get kind of stuck in it.

[37:06]

So maybe that's what you're asking about, is how do we get unstuck from being good, from creating good karma, good results. That's hard. It's maybe easier than... I mean, maybe the reason why we emphasize good results is that they're easier to get unstuck from than bad results. That's why we try to keep people from killing each other. It's because it binds all of us to have that happening. It binds all of us in the delusion that we can actually kill. And it's very hard to let go of that. Anyway, I'm sure I haven't answered your question, but I appreciate what you've brought up. Orienting in that way. I think it's a long answer. Not your answer, but just our life and evolving through that.

[38:10]

Are we running out of time? We're just about there. It's time for one or two more questions. Yes. I also was oddly inspired by that article that you mentioned. I was trying to think about why that was. And there's that line from the Sandokai that came to me, pleasure and pain appear unrelated. And I keep thinking about that line and thinking that it's really important to pay attention to that line. It has something to do with what you were saying about embracing everything as sacred. literacy about these things, or at least forgetfulness. It is like a ball of fire, touching it and turning it away, or both mistaken or wrong, or something like that.

[39:12]

I mean, it's sort of easy to pass by those moments. When I think about the way I look at good and bad, or pleasure and pain, then the question And how important is it to me to be able to do that in terms of cutting down on the amount of my own dualistic thinking? And then those questions seem like those lines seem very important. Thank you very much.

[40:08]

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