Thanks for coming out. We have almost the full Zendo, which is amazing. It's been so long. Seems so long since we've been together. I'm grateful to be here and to act as yourself. Before coming here, I was laying in the office because laying is one way for me to kind of calm myself down, which I'm really nervous, I have to admit. And I started a circle, and throughout the talk that I put together, circles show up. And I thought a good name, I wrote myself a note, so I got this right. Maybe a good name for this talk would be circling case 87, because that's the case we're studying.

[01:05]

It's Uman's. Medicine and disease subdue each other. So. That. I'd like to say while studying this koan and all the characters involved in it, I found my mind getting lost, especially in the commentary. Not sure if that's the koan working on me or chemo brain, but the former. Ngo and Setcho's comments and verse have you looking at the koan from the left, the right, up, down, all around, and then just obliterating it.

[02:13]

It's just complicated. I'm hoping after you'll read Cleary's translation, which the Saturday director will put in the chat box. It's a full version of the Blue Cliff record. And it's in PDF format, so very easy to access from a computer. Also, in preparing for this, into my anxiety about being long enough and having enough material to keep people listening, it became a kind of a topic for another talk. I had to decide what to do about time. So I took my... recorded myself doing the whole talk and it seemed like it took an hour but then when i i read the time it was 25 minutes so ouch i'm gonna go with whatever amount of time it takes and gather your interest in and um questions sojin rose used to say that if you think

[03:26]

of something to say, wait, if it comes up two more times, then say it. So I had this idea about coming up, this idea that times, and that's basically, which we kind of talked about last night during our virtual or our imaginary tea of Bansan. Like, where are you? in terms of the practice period, going beyond your comfort zone. So I wanted to just put that out there because it keeps coming up in my mind because I'm kind of pushing myself and hopefully everybody else will do similar. I wanted to say something, just a little bit about Uman or Uman in Japanese.

[04:30]

His name is taken to be taught in Japan or not in Japan, but in China. And he was born in 864 and lived till 948. Uman is known for apparently meaningless short, sharp, single words like called Unman's one-word barriers. His one-syllable retorts and his extended conversation and stories came to be known as koans. He was said to forbid his teaching from being recorded. Out of the meditation hall saying, because your mouth is no good for anything you come to note down my words. It is certain that someday you will sell me." Pretty funny. Finally, during a final lecture, he finished with stating, coming and going is continuous.

[05:44]

I must be on my way. It's said that he took the full lotus posture and died. His corpse would be venerated until the 20th century. and then would disappear during the chaos revolution. Another, you know, in Cleary's version, his introduction, I found an interesting definition that he puts forth called reality reading. You, you're in the case or the koan. And in so doing, the blue cliff record of ancient China stands revealed as your very life right here in this time and place. So I'll try and do that for us in this talk. First, I'll read the pointer, the case, and then a verse of the con, excuse me.

[06:48]

Okay, the pointer. A clear-eyed fellow has... Sometimes on the summit of a solitary peak, weeds grow in profusion. Sometimes he's naked and free in the bustling marketplace. Suddenly he appears as an angry Titan with three heads and six arms. Suddenly, as a sun-faced Buddha, he releases the light of all-embracing mercy. In a single atom, he manifests all physical forms. To save people according to their type, he mixes with mud and water. If suddenly he releases upward, not even the Buddha's eye could see him. Even if a thousand sages appeared, they too would have to fall back 3,000 miles. Is there anyone with the same attainment and same realization?

[07:56]

To test this, to see. Now this is the case. Anman, teaching his community said, medicine and disease subdue each other. The whole earth is medicine. What is yourself? verse it's very short you know just like uh like described in his his bio biography um the whole why have ancients and why have ancients and moderns been so mistaken don't make the carriage behind closed doors the road is naturally quiet and empty. Wrong, wrong.

[08:56]

Though they be high in the sky, your nostrils have still been pierced. That's it. Medicine and disease subdue each other. I'm going to focus on that one line this whole talk, so hopefully it'll be interesting. The synonym for subdue is conquer, defeat, overthrow, reduce, vanquish. These words mean to get the better of by force or strategy, subdue implies a defeating and suppression. So it seems like they're at war with each other.

[10:06]

My first thought when reading this koan was, while the whole earth is medicine, then disease and you are medicine. Duality within oneness, humans, whole earth is medicine. The second thought I had is all disease has a medicine component. Master Unman says, what is yourself? My third thought was, what is yourself? Maybe medicine and disease are a choice in how you respond for life. Those all said, I don't expect you to think about them. Not now, maybe in a later talk I'll get ideas. So medicine and disease subdue each other. How does that apply to me or to you?

[11:10]

Subdue means to conquer or defeat. So when in August 2020, blood in the shower I was needless to say alarmed. I called the advice nurse and got an appointment with the head and neck doctor. The day of my appointment I wasn't thinking about this koan. I was worried. The doctor examined my and took a biopsy of what turned out to be a large tumor in the back of my tongue. Her name was So Moon, which I found really beautiful. She tried to comfort her, saying, it's good you caught this early and that there's a 70% cure rate. I remember walking with Emily, my wife, to a coffee shop in Oakland and feeling in a daze.

[12:11]

Emily would, as usual, and suggest things to cheer me up. It took me a long time to believe this was happening to me. I was resilient all my life. This floored me. Now I was feeling between life and death, health and disease, and dying. How to proceed was my big question. A friend came to visit me and we sat in the courtyard. He asked, how do you stay calm in the middle of this? And I said, I have no choice. I need to go through this. Medicine and disease subdue each other. What was the medicine I needed to defeat or to work with this disease?

[13:13]

I went into overdrive deciding what to do. The gold standard for the size tumor was to do a combination of radiation and chemotherapy. There was holistic approaches and immunotherapy. I went to another doctor to get a second opinion and they confirmed the gold standard. It's strange how talking about this is like revisiting places you want to forget. But dealing with disease in medicine is not easy. Medicine can be poison, having the side effects of having the poison. So what is it, poison, medicine, or both? Maybe both. I went with the gold standard. The prep work to do this is nearly as hard as taking the medicine. You need to get a port for the chemo.

[14:17]

for feeding tubes so you can get enough food. So if you can't get enough food through your mouth, you can get your calories through a feeding tube. They strongly suggest of the sunburn you get in your mouth and neck from radiation. They don't want you to lose weight, which would alter your radiation targets, all this very complicated. So maybe I should stop with the details of my mental struggle to take the medicine. In some ways, I feel like I'm just complaining, but I just wanted to express what I went through. I had a team of doctors help me navigate this medicine slash disease.

[15:25]

There was medicine offered from hospice doctors. I was going to make it through this, so I didn't really lean on them. I isolate energy for doing the chemo and radiation. I can't remember what I thought it would be like to finish. I just put my head down. and did what I was told. Finishing the treatment left me feeling alone, or after finishing it left me feeling alone. The attention I got for seven weeks disappeared. I had to wait and see if treatment worked. In January 2021, I got an all clear. I was happy for a day and then sunk low. Somehow through all this All that treatment, I had not readied myself to continue. Someone said to me, you prepared to die, but not to survive, which is kind of spot on.

[16:33]

What next? Medicine is not always . It can cure you of a lump and maybe clear cancer from a lymph node, but does it cure? It can have you looking at the world with cloudy glasses, looking over your shoulder. So now what medicine do you take to counteract the disease from the medicine you just finished? It can be circular, or maybe it is circular. Be careful not to get stuck in the loop. These subdue each other. Other translations of this. Koan says medicine, disease and disease cure each other or medicine and disease. Mutually heal. Nobody wants.

[17:37]

We must face it in due course. It shows up when least least expected in our lives. where we wouldn't identify with it as a disease. Maybe a breakup with a partner or an argument with a friend. We don't look at those situations as a disease or as Sojin would say, dis-ease, a dis-ease. But we look for cures when they happen. Unmen be talking about those too. I had the good fortune of feeling nervous about making mistakes in Zen practice. A kind of perfectionism that is kind of a disease that can penetrate your bones if you continue practicing with a group.

[18:40]

So I have a story about this disease. When I was head server, I would frequently look towards our late abbot, Sojin. He always seemed to be scowling at me. What was he mad about? And what if I make a mistake? It kept me on my toes and wanting everything to be just so. Anyway, one Saturday I was head server, which means you're the one. make sure that the servers, the meal, pots, the bowls get in and get served with great care. I had to go to the bathroom. So after all the pots and bowls and servers were in the Zendo and everything was set up, I dashed to the bathroom in the courtyard. I came out of the bathroom and all was quiet.

[19:46]

So I opened the Zendo door and stepped in and looked up. Suddenly, it seemed like I was in the middle of a circle. Everyone around me was staring at me. I felt naked and totally exposed. I let that feeling run through me and thought, this is okay. It's okay if you see me however. mistakes and all. From that point on, I can't remember Sojin staring or scowling at me like he knew what happened. So is it medicine or disease? Medicine and disease may be one and sometimes medicine can be poison if you don't need it. or a cure or rebalancing if you do need it.

[20:48]

Knowing when to start and when to stop is important. I'm running pretty fast. So what else can I say about my coping with disease? Anxiety has become an ongoing companion. though I don't usually see it as a friend. I can worry about almost create a state of agitation. Most unpleasant and often makes me want to jump out of my skin. But how do you do that? I don't. I just sit and continue with my intention. I think COVID and dealing with the cancer. that ongoing question of will it come back? Now it's a habit that's looking for a cure. Maybe the cure is to stop looking.

[21:53]

Time will tell. Read something from Not Always So. I think it was put together by Ed Brown and He has a little writing about the Blue Cliff Record and Sun-Faced, Moon-Faced Buddha. I think this is when Suzuki Roshi was sick with cancer, and he may have been at Tassajara, but I'm not sure. Lately I have been sick, and because I have been practicing Zazen for many years, some people say, He will not catch cold or suffer from the flu. But isn't it funny he stays in bed so long? We may believe that Zazen will make us physically strong and mentally healthy, but a healthy mind is not just healthy in the usual sense.

[22:57]

Weak body is not just a weak body. Whether it's weak or strong, when that weak When that weakness or strength is based on what we call truth or Buddha nature, then that is a healthy mind and a healthy body. My voice may not be very good yet, but today I am testing it. Whether it works or not, or if I speak or not, is not a big problem. Whatever happens to us is something that should happen. The purpose of our have that kind of complete composure. In the blue fifth record, there is a koan concerning Baso. Baso was big and physically very strong, a man of great stature. Once when Baso was ill, took care of the temple, came to visit him and asked, how are you doing?

[24:03]

Are you well or not? And Daso said, sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha. The sun-faced Buddha is supposed to live for 1,800 years. The moon-faced Buddha is only one day and one night. When I am sick, I may be a moon-faced Buddha. When I am healthy, I am a sun-faced Buddha. But the sun-faced Buddha and the moon-faced Buddha has no special meaning. Whether or healthy, I am still practicing Zazen. There is no difference. Even though I am in bed, I am Buddha. So don't worry about my health. This is quite simple. Whenever, to Basso, he can accept things as it is, but we cannot accept everything.

[25:04]

We may accept something we think is good, but if we dislike something, we won't accept it. And we compare things. He's a true Zen master, he is not. He's a good Zen student, but I am not. This kind of understanding might be quite usual, quite usual, but finally you cannot figure out which idea is reliable. The point is to attain complete composure. Ordination associated with comparative thinking will not help you. To attain enlightenment means to have complete composure in your life without any discrimination. At the same time, that does not mean to stick to an attitude of non-discrimination because that is all of discrimination. I have another reading on sickness that is short, and it's from Dogen's Shrepo Genzo Zumoki.

[26:22]

If I can get to it. Okay. Dogen instructed, someone said, I am sick. I am not a vessel of dharma. I cannot endure the practice of the way. Having heard these essentials of the Dharma, I wish to live alone, departing from the world, nourishing my body and taking care of my sickness until my life is over. This is a terrible mistake. Sages in the past did not necessarily have golden bones. Ancient practitioners did not all have superior capabilities. Not such a long time has passed since the Buddha's death. In the age of the Buddha, not everyone was sharp-witted. Some were good and others were not. Among the monks, there were some that did incredibly evil things and others who had very low intellect.

[27:37]

mean themselves or fail to arouse Bodhi mind. None fail to study the way on the grounds of not being a vessel of Dharma. If you do not learn and practice the way now, in which lifetime will you become a person of capability or a person without sickness? Just do not think of your body and mind Arouse Bodhi mind and practice. This is most important in learning the way. He's pretty harsh and pretty direct about whether you're sick or not, you can be a vessel of practice and good away. I know I'm doing a lot of reading and I apologize some for that. I thought those were good. good teachings.

[28:40]

And Cricket sent me this poem after my Wayseeking Mind talk that I thought was pretty appropriate to close with pretty early, but that would give us a lot of time for questions. The poem is from Wendell Berry and it's called The Peace of Wild Things. despair for the world grows in me and I wake in the night at the least sound in fear that my life and my children's life may be in fear of what my life and my children's life may be I go and lie down where the wood drake rests in his beauty on the water and the great heron feeds I come into the peace who do not tax their lives with forethought and grief. I come into the presence of still water, and I feel above me the day-blind stars waiting with their light.

[29:50]

For a time, I rest in the grace of the world and breathe. That's all I have. Thank you. And I invite questions. I don't know if I'll have good answers, but we'll try. I'll try. Hosanna, if you want to say anything first, or... Thank you. Thank you for... always been showing up, but today you showed up and I don't really have a question because I'm just working with us so I just appreciate that.

[31:00]

This is a real conundrum. Thank you. Oh, Lori? I really like the, I really respond to this idea of the circling. That just seems like a really fresh thought I've never heard about this going on. I wish you'd say a little more about what you mean and how that came to you and what it means to you. Just say a little more about the circling. Oh, sure. Actually, Hozon talking with Hozon gave me the idea. He said that the first talk, he wanted me to circle Koan and not get too deeply into it, which I think I accomplished that by some great intelligence. Thank God.

[32:03]

But, you know, it's kind of like what Sojin always used to say, there's birth and death, but then there's life. And so there's disease and medicine, and they're feeding each other. Yeah, circling each other. Yeah, circling each other. And so that was kind of a last minute. I didn't have it in the talk, and I'm just laying in Sojin's bed. is kind of circular, too. Thought of it. I don't know if that's... Yeah, good. Maybe you'll go, maybe you'll think more, share more about that. Yeah. Thank you. Gary, we have a couple of participants in the chat online Zendo, and the first is Ed Herzog. Go ahead, Ed. Hi, Gary. Hi, Ed. It's... Wonderful to see you in the Shuso seat at last.

[33:08]

And my question is, what does composure look like to you when facing illness and pain? You might repeat the question. Ed's question was, what does composure look like for me? Is that right, Ed? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, go ahead. You're muted, Ed. When you or one is facing illness and pain, what is, I mean, Suzuki Roshi was talking about composure. And I'm just curious what you, what does that look like? Or what does that feel like? Well, you know, that's a really, really good question. And Ross, referred me to this book um i forget the name of it uh ross do you remember that book that you referred me to this week yeah darlene's cohen cohen i can't remember exactly but it's her tone on um you know kind of pain or persistent pain and um you know i used to think that composure was the reason i bring that up is because she brought

[34:33]

thinking when I read the first chapter yesterday that that composure isn't necessarily bliss that it's acceptance acceptance of the pain and acceptance of being anxious acceptance of depression acceptance of and and so it It doesn't necessarily feel blissful. So I'm kind of saying what it's not and not what it is. It's kind of what Suzuki Roshi was saying about Basso is that he just accepts what comes up and sometimes without acceptance. That makes sense. Yeah. I'm also thinking of the poem you read. I'm wondering if that is. Resting in the grace of the world.

[35:36]

That's what composure is. Yeah. It's a good way to put it. Thank you. And we have another question from Peter Overton. Hi, Peter. Hi. Hi. Wow. I don't really have a question. I just feel like... You have placed so many important questions before us and particularly before me. I want to say that I'm really happy that you are coming forward to lead this practice period at this particular time, both in terms of your life and our community life and our hopeful can you come to your mic can you hear me now yeah that's better um just really happy that you're leading this practice period right now just it seems so fitting in terms of the changes going through you've gone through yourself and as a community we've been and it seems like the perfect time to make that shift

[36:57]

I'm just really, really glad that you're doing it. So thanks a lot for raising all those questions about how to navigate such uncertainty. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Just to reiterate, but Peter said that he just thinks it's appropriate the subject matter. for what's happening right now, for what we've gone through. So, yeah. Thank you. Oh, Jerry, and then Hannah. Hi. Oh, sorry. And instead, when you were talking about Suzuki Roshi, maybe think about skillful means.

[38:08]

We're looking at skillful means in the Lotus Sutra, and how we deal with phenomena in a skillful way or in a different way. And you can create of disease or harm. And that using, for example, speaking can be very helpful. Speaking can be . So how do you see the connection between this and the skillful needs? The question is, how do I see the connection between skillful means and medicine and disease?

[39:10]

Kind of moment by moment, I think, is the only way I can, comes to mind right off the top of my head is that, you know, if my mood dips, I try and lift up or do something to bring it up or bring it up when it's up I try and stay you know maybe get level with it and I look for advice from other you know like getting the second opinion on the gold standard for my treatment therapy, mindfulness practices, guided meditation, things like that help to at least my particular illnesses or disease.

[40:22]

Hopefully that's skillful. I'll try and make it skillful. Yes, thank you. Leslie, sure. I, too, am very happy to see you in that seat. Sometime before the pandemic, during the tea we have after the lecture on Saturdays, I was out there and Sergeant came over to me and said, and then he said, that's a terrible question. So we were nodding to each other, you know. How do you manage that? You must have had that asked. Yeah, I hide a lot. That's one thing. This question was, how do I handle people asking how you're doing? And I remember Sojin also being very sensitive to that because it's kind of a, you know, even if you're not sick, people say, how you doing?

[41:31]

You know, it's kind of like a colloquial. And if you've been really sick, it can hit a nerve. I try not to take it too seriously. I try to just say, I'm doing okay. There's a person who always really with inflection says, how are you doing? He knows what happened, and it really annoys me. There's some sort of big change I'm supposed to talk about. I still get frustrated with it, but I try and just accept that people ask. Actually, people care, so that's a nice thing too. There's a positive side to it, too.

[42:32]

Ross? I have something to say, but I think you called Hannah earlier. Oh no, Hannah was just pointing. She was the pointer in Leslie's case. I'd like to echo Peter's comment about the koan for our times with the pandemic. And for myself and all of us, the appropriateness of you being Chuso now, in contrast to have you had done it a couple of years ago before COVID, the whole thing just comes together for me and is extremely... Your talk is really inspiring for me. And you opened your talk with Umad admonishing his students who were trying to record his talks to profit from them. Well, here we are a thousand or so years later, The talk's been recorded. You wrote it down. And I have to say, profit from your words and inspiration.

[43:38]

So, Uman, that's old school. Thank you, brother. Somebody didn't pay attention to Uman, though. Well, I didn't, you know, It's funny because I found this other thing that Dogen wrote about reading the, you know, the Blue Cliff Record is kind of a government type document that was compiled in China. And he was reading it one day and some student came up to him and said, why are you reading? that you should be practicing. There's no, and then later he thought, and he said, this student was right. It was a very sincere student that came up to him, and he thought practice was, but you know, I didn't want to get demoted, so I didn't bring that up.

[44:52]

But now I did. You're done. Gary, there are several hands in the online zen, though. Maybe we can take a few and get a few in person as well. The first is from Jonathan Antonori. Okay. Jonathan, you could ask a question. Hi, yeah. Hi, yeah. My name is Jonathan. I would like to share... It's not Soto. It's actually a Rinzai guy, Guangpo, but it really, really resonated with me. So I just wanted to read a quote. Actually, he's quoting Qingming. He says, if only you could comprehend the nature of your own mind and put an end to discriminatory thought, there would naturally be no room for even a grain of error to arise. Qingming explained the curse.

[45:55]

Just spread out a mat. For reclining quite flat. When thoughts tied to a bed. Like a sick man growing worse. All karma will cease. And all fancies disperse. What is meant by Bodhi. And he says it. As it is so long as your mind is subject to the slightest movement of thought. You will remain engulfed in the error of taking ignorance and enlightened for separate states. This error will persist regardless of your vast knowledge. Anyway, yeah, that just really resonated with me. So I wanted to share that. Thank you. Thank you. Pretty strict. It is. It's very Rinzai. A little bit too strict for the mind, for our Mahayana mind. Thank you. I mean, and also it's kind of an illusion to think that you can stop the mind.

[47:01]

That's like saying you can stop the heart from beating. Different takes, I guess. What was that? I was saying, yeah, I think it's somehow still the same. It's all still the same, but just different ways of saying it. How could it be anything different, really? Okay. Thank you. Yep. I'm Daniel O'Hara. Hi, Daniel. Hi, Gary. Good to see you. Good to see you, too. Thanks for doing a great talk. Daniel has been with us through all the COVID, practically, and we did a sashim to start the practice period, and I saw this guy walking around that I couldn't recognize, and it was Daniel.

[48:04]

And I kept looking, and it's Daniel, and I went up to him, I said, hi Daniel, this is Gary, and it's so nice to actually, you know, all this time, I saw him in the little Hollywood squares, you know, if you remember that show of Zoom. I'm sorry, Daniel. Go ahead. You mentioned acceptance of what is in our life at this moment. Is that... or passive, or is it like a just passive kind of acceptance, or is there an active component to accepting?

[49:05]

Accepting. I see. Daniel asked, is there an active or passive acceptance? And I think there's both. I mean, there's some things that you have to, like, I can't deny I had cancer. and that it's in remission. But there are things that you can do to improve your situation, and that's the active part. And to know the difference, right? There's the serenity. I think that ends the serenity prayer. So we're pretty open amount of people to grabbing truth where we see it, and I think that's pretty good truth. Does that answer your question? Yeah.

[50:09]

I want to have Susan go next, if that's okay. Yeah, thank you. I kept having this image as you were talking. There's a plant that's flowering everywhere now, foxglove, also known as digitalis, and it's an extremely poisonous plant and extremely beautiful and used in its medicine for the heart. And, you know, I was thinking about everything you described you've gone through, I honestly think you would have been a strong shoe sub three years ago. Something about that medicine that you took, that poisonous medicine, and it worked, and here you are, you know, and I'm really grateful you're here, and you're doing great beauty.

[51:16]

you know, as the shoes sew. And in your life, as you've gone through this, there's something quite beautiful that's emerged. And I know it's at great expense with the losses you've described. But there you are. And thank you for saying yes. My wife says that she likes me more. It's like I've become like a ripe peach or something, you know, where, you know, before I was kind of like a hard peach and now suddenly I've softened up. But, you know, it's funny that I don't always, you know, there's all this like anger that I don't know what that's about. Hard to address.

[52:18]

Because there's this thing where you hold the image of yourself. There's a great poem about this, but you cling to the image as you go forward into this new person that you are. And that kind of is a big struggle for me. I want to jump back into where I was, and that's gone. I can't jump back in. I have to move forward. Yeah. Maybe in some mysterious way, you know, the fruits of Zazen, your long, long practice, have brought something forth that's quite beautiful. I mean, you know, this trend had cancer. She was very young and she wanted to learn to meditate, but she didn't have the chance to develop a practice over a long period of time.

[53:30]

But in your case, I just continue to be struck by that, the longevity of your practice and how it's carried you through this really difficult time. Thanks, Gary. Thank you. Gary? I think it's time. So, thanks everybody for showing up and maybe I'll put more in the circle in the next two, one or two talks I think I have to do. Okay.

[54:13]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_91.5