Good morning, everyone. Good morning. Can you hear me? Yes. I want to thank you all for being here. I think most of you probably know that our scheduled speaker, the Inshut, was not able to come, and that gave us the opportunity to remember our very long-time member, Ron Nestor, who passed away last Sunday morning. And I'm just thinking that he was actually on Zoom last Saturday listening to the talk. So it's like kind of sudden. So today I'm not really giving a talk, but I'm hoping that together with people on Zoom also, we can sort of remember him and sort of bring him here once again with us, both for the people who knew him well and the people who knew him less well and the people who didn't know him at all.

[01:28]

So we can sort of bring him alive in a certain way for all of us today. And, you know, I will kind of share my memories and I've known Ron probably longer than anyone in this room by a little bit. But also, you know, with your memories, because, you know, I only have, you know, one one knowledge of him and you all have another. And I, you know, this morning a few people shared and, you know, it just opened it up for me. You know, it just was like, yes, that's who he was. So when I first heard that he had died, I was with the mountains and river Se Shin on top of a ridge. in Point Reyes, about two miles from the end of our trip. And Susan, somebody opened their phone at that point and saw the message.

[02:34]

And Susan suggested that we kind of make a circle and a little moment to remember Ron. And people said a few words, a few memories. And then we hiked the next two miles. And somehow he was so alive for me, you know, when we were walking. It was just almost, you know, he was just right there, not hiking with me, but just, you know, in my heart and in my mind. And that's kind of how it's been this week. And then this morning when we rang the bells and chanted the day to Jindirani, I felt like, oh, he's dead. Ron's dead. And it reminded me of that Zen story or koan where this master or teacher, Da Wu, is going to pay a condolence call on a family who's lost a family member, and he has an attendant with him.

[03:47]

And when they go into the room, The caution is there and the attendant bangs on it and he says, alive or dead? And the teacher says, I won't say, I won't say. And the attendant says, why won't you say? And the teacher says, I won't say, I won't say. So that really came to my mind, alive or dead. So, I just thought we'd take a minute together, just a minute to kind of, you know, evoke him or invoke him in our minds, our memories, or just, if we don't know him, open our hearts and minds to, you know, having him here with us another time, another day, just for a moment.

[04:48]

Okay, thank you. I'll just say that I'm not Leanne Shipp, but I am Ellen Webb, and I'm a senior student and a teacher here. I'm going to tell you a little bit about my history with Ron and some of the stories. Hopefully I haven't told them too many times. And then, you know, but it's just like kind of one side of a, you know, one facet of a diamond. And I'm really hoping that you all will, you know, share your sides of it. And because it is really different for everybody and we can kind of create a whole diamond together. So, I, met Ron. We both grew up in Berklee.

[06:24]

We both went to Berklee High School. I met him in the concert band at Berklee High School. He was playing the snare drums and I was playing the sort of other kinds of percussion like the cowbell and the cymbals and stuff. Hence a romance was formed. And that was when I was maybe in the 10th grade or the 11th grade and he was a year older than I was. And, you know, we liked each other a lot and we spent a lot of time together. And then he graduated from high school and he took a year off and then he went to college, but he took a year off and he traveled kind of in a kind of Jack Kerouakey kind of way where he would, you know, kind of go around the West and he would very occasionally send me a postcard from Billings, Montana saying something romantic like, I'm washing dishes here in a diner.

[07:38]

The cowboys come and drink coffee at 7 a.m. Love, Ron. And he came back finally And then both of us went to college, and we both went on the East Coast. He went to film school in New York, and I went to college in Vermont. So I discovered, but not too often. We were both busy in school. Then we both dropped out of college after one year and moved back to Berkeley. At that point, I think he maybe, and I'm fuzzy on these dates, but he maybe had already started, you know, his relationship with the Berkeley Center, just barely. But that fall, you know, we were still together, and Carol wanted me to tell this story.

[08:40]

I'm not really sure why, but she thinks it's funny, but he arranged for us that fall to go on a three-day kind of trip together. And, you know, I thought, great, you know, a little romantic getaway. And we went up into the gold country and he arranged it all. And we stayed at some place, I can't remember, but, you know, it was nice and we hiked and had fun. And then right in the middle of the trip, like in the middle of the second day, he said, Ellen, we're too young to have a serious relationship. and we're, I'm gonna break up, let's see. So that was like, okay, now what have we done? We only have 36 more hours. But he must have managed it pretty well because we did end up being friends for 50 more years, and good friends. So,

[09:45]

I then moved to New York and only saw him after that on, you know, when I came back to visit my family. And I lived in New York for quite a number of years. He came a couple times, and this is sort of not a period I know well and I hope people will fill in, but he came to New York a few times to do sessions with a teacher named Master Shen Yin, quite a well-known Chinese teacher. But he didn't spend a lot of time with me and I didn't spend a lot of time with him. He was in session and I was doing my dance career there. So in 1984 I moved back to California and I was still very involved in my dance world. I also had a husband and a baby by then. pretty involved here, but we saw each other now and then.

[10:48]

He said this nice thing when I had my son who was really a newborn. He said, Helen, it's like you're one and a half people now. So, like I say, I was involved in my dance career and doing a lot of performing. I had a dance company here in a studio. And I'll just say here that Ron, I don't think he had any real interest in modern dance at all. And he came to almost every performance I ever did. And that was a big span of time. So it was really a faithful kind of labor of love for us. In about, I don't remember when, at some point later, I kind of had a midlife crisis and ended up studying Zen or sitting in a Zen Do in Oakland, not the Berkeley Zen Center, but in Oakland, a small Zen Do.

[11:53]

And I was studying at that time with Joko Beck, who was coming up from San Diego. I think Ron was a little miffed about why I was not coming here, but I just, well, I'll tell you, my mother was a member here. It seemed very . Anyway, I stayed there for a while, and then Joko stopped coming, and I studied with Diane Rossetto, who was the teacher then. And then I decided I wanted to leave and sort of explore other places. And one thing I'll say about myself at that time, and it's probably still true, is I was very adamant. I was sure of myself and sort of opinionated. So I said to Ronnie, I said, I think there's, what, 100 Buddhist centers in the Bay Area, and I'm going to check them out and find them all night that works for me. And, you know, he was quiet for a minute, and he said, well, why don't you start with the Berkeley Center?

[12:57]

And I said, all right, you know. So then I came here, and perhaps I've been here ever since. And one more kind of story like that, where I was This was considerably later, but I was still in my very opinionated, adamant phase, which I probably still am. Sojin was then teaching some classes, I think prodded by Ron, on koans and koans from the Book of Serenity. It was several series of classes, and I said to Ron, I just hate koans, and I'm not coming, and I don't like reading them, I don't ever understand them, not koans. And he said, well, he said, you don't have to read them, and you don't have to study them, you could just come and listen. Why don't you just come and listen? And kind of gently aiming me there, and so I did.

[14:06]

And I've had a pretty big relationship with Coen's since that time. So, you know, I did have this foible, you know, I was kind of sure of myself and I was a performer and, you know, Ron was kind of the opposite, but he just like never judged me or corrected me or criticized me. kind of enjoyed me. He made that kind of clear. And I would say that he felt that way about everybody he knew here. You know, everybody's funny characteristics and things that I was more judgmental about, he was just like, everybody was just fine for him. And, you know, it was a wonderful teaching for me and a wonderful quality. I also wanted to say that For me, and I think for a lot of people here, I mean, we did lose two habits in the last five years or so, but they were leaders, and Ron was different.

[15:14]

For me, he was like a pillar of the Zen center, and he was just kind of supporting the whole place, and I feel now a little bit like You know, there's a wobbly lake or something. You know, I just miss that sort of solid support that he gave us. So the word that comes to my mind, and it's a Zen word, and it's considered kind of a compliment, is like he had a grandmotherly mind. And, you know, he really cared about the people here, you know, really everyone. buildings and the grounds and whatever those things were out on the street that he always watered. His parents, he took really good care of his parents when they were failing, and of course his wife. Also, at his workplace he would tell me about the people there. He did a lot of managing.

[16:16]

He managed coffee shops and gardening things and landscaping things. He became a massage therapist, but he ended up managing a big massage place, yoga place. Again, he just took care of people and liked them all and would share about them. It was just a wonderful quality. I do want to, just in this context, share his Zen name, which he very rarely shared. And I didn't remember it, we had to sort of research it. We said it this morning, it was so on Soto, but it means plain, simple, ordinary way. And it's a very kind of undramatic name. And I know Soto really admired and loved Ron, but a lot of the names

[17:20]

you know, here are much more, like, flashy, you know, like dragon or, you know, I know, you know, Fulani's name has something to do with lion and, you know, mountains and, you know, so on. But, you know, this is kind of unusual, actually, from some to. You know, one more little story about his kind of consistent caring, and there are many, I'm sure. There was a man here named Jed who wanted to study koans, and Ron started reading koans with him, and I joined them at some point, and then Jed got sick, and we used to meet at a cafe, and then we started meeting at Jed's house, and then Jed found me and said, you know, I just don't want to study them, and I don't want to talk about them, but I love hearing you guys just talk about them. So we would just come and talk about them, and just listen to us.

[18:26]

Every week he showed up and did that, so it was really sweet. I know because Andrea's putting together this book of memories, and the memories I've seen, You know, a lot of them have been just like what I'm saying, sort of. And the last thing I will say is that, you know, he was very committed to lay practice. I don't think I ever saw him in any kind of, you know, Zen garb of any kind. And he never, I don't think ever went to Tassajara. You know, he was, he just was really into lay practice. That was kind of his thing. The other side of that was he wasn't a pussycat. I can remember times when he would be in Shosan after a session with Sojin.

[19:37]

you know, something would really get into it with him, you know, really, like really fiercely. And afterwards, I would say to Ron, God, you know, that was really mean. He was mean to you. And Ron would say, oh, God, no, I loved it. So I'm gonna end by reading, I think Ron's favorite Gohan, but I'm not really sure it was his favorite. It was one that he let go out. It kind of expresses him. And it's short, and I'm not going to say anything more about it. I'm just going to read it. This is called, Dizan Planting the Fields. Dizan asked Zhrishan, where do you come from? Zhrishan said, from the South. Dizan said, how is Buddhism in the South these days? Zhrishan said, there's extensive discussion. Dizan said, How can that compare to me here planting the fields and making rice to eat?

[20:40]

Xuishang said, Well, what can you do about the world? Dizang said, What do you call the world? So I think that's all I'll say. That's quite good actually. And you know, we'll just open it up to you and to to the people on Zoom as well. So please, please fill out this picture that I'm trying to paint. Liz, and then Greg. Thank you for that. When you were describing your relationship with Ron in high school and right after high school, I was really surprised because I've known Ron probably second longest to you since the early 70s at the Berkeley Zinn Center.

[22:00]

And I think I'm five years older. than Ron was. And at our age now, five years is nothing. We're the same age. But when you're in your mid-twenties, five years is a lot of time. He was much younger than I was back then. And I thought of him as sort of a kid. And so I'm really impressed with your drawing this picture of him as sort of confident and assertive. I'm really impressed. I didn't see that side of it. We used to talk after mornings. We both went to Morning Zazen every day. We used to talk. The one thing I remember that sort of characterized in my mind my idea that Ron was this kid. So he...

[23:02]

In the course of conversations, he had told me that he does not eat sugar. And then in the course of another conversation, he told me that he always walked to the Zendo in the morning. And in the course of another conversation, he told me that when he was walking home from Zazen in the morning, he would always stop and buy a donut. And I said, I thought you didn't eat sugar. And everyone said, do donuts have sugar? So that's my story of way back 55 years ago or something. Thank you very much for your talk. I remember Ron from when I was practicing here in the 90s, but I didn't know him well at all.

[24:06]

So I have questions. I think I have the strong impression that a big thing that Ron and Sojourneroshi had in common was work practice. Love of work practice and work as practice. The number of people who can say, oh yeah, I remember the days back in Dwight Way Zendo, is dwindling. Is it safe to assume that Ron helped to build this Zendo? Yeah. Yeah, and to lift 1931 up and add a floor underneath it, as required by Berkeley zoning laws, because the Zendo took away housing unit, right? So they had to add a floor. Yeah, so Ron's really... in this place, this body and soul. Killer. Yeah.

[25:11]

Thank you. Can't tell who you are with your mask on. Jeff. Oh, Jeff. When you were talking about Ron, when I first came here, 2008, 2009, I had no idea who he was. And he would get into it with Soja. I thought, oh, how brave. And their conversations were really rich. And it took me a while to learn how to follow them. But it was Ron's smile that always came up for me. Ron used his smile to roll his eyes. Ron used his smile to kind of say, oh, that's kind of it. And so I would say something in classes or somewhere. I would feel like I just wrapped a thought perfectly. And I would have that little ring of the bell at the end. He would look at me and he would smile and he'd say, nothing extra. And that was a hallmark of all of our conversations. He would address everything I said and it was nothing extra. And that's how his practice became for me.

[26:12]

I would watch him and begin to understand where I kind of went on beyond. what was kind of reasonable and what kind of made sense. We were doing a work practice here where we would be finishing the walls, where we would be finishing the outside of the zendo. And I was having a particular sense of all of the people who have touched the zendo and done all the things here and who we are kind of as a samba over the years. And when I told Ron that, he got that smile. And he said, this is kind of what we hoped for. But I always admired him for being able to kind of take practice and reduce it to nothing extra. just this. And it really dovetails with the way you talked about it. Thank you so much. It sounds like that last comment about the Zendo, he didn't say nothing extra. That's right. Let me just check and see if somebody online would like to say something. Not yet. Susan. Thank you, Ellen, so much for all the stories.

[27:16]

When Ron retired, he gave a way-seeking mind talk in which he kind of went through all the jobs he had ever had. And then he talked about going to massage school. And I think at the end, like before they got certified, they had to go out and do some number of hours. And I don't remember all the details, but I remember he went to some... it was either a women's club or a women's gym. And he said when they walked in the room there were all these women laying on their backs on massage tables and he saw all these women's breasts and he thought, I can never do this. I cannot do massage on women. And subsequently he got a job like either a men's club or gym where for a long time he gave massage to men.

[28:22]

Yeah, it was a YMCA and it was really old men, a lot of really old men. But I just really remember his face when he said he walked in and saw one of these women. He's like, I can't do this, you know, after going through this training. When Ron was the chouseau, I think both his parents came, and what I remember was Ron liked investing, and his father wanted to ask a question, and he asked him, Something like, well, how's it going with the money market? And what does investing have to do with Zen? No, Susan, I asked that question. Oh, I thought it was his father. No, it was me. But what I remember was he just didn't get flustered. And my memory was he just said, oh, dad.

[29:24]

But I guess he must have said, oh, Ellen. And at that She Sews ceremony, when the Q&A started, people kept going on and on about how wonderful he was, like thanking him for being such a great guy. You know, that was in the day when like 50, 60 people were here. And Sotin just all of a sudden, I don't know how many people did that, but all of a sudden he's like, stop it. Just stop. You are just supposed to ask a question and don't keep telling him how wonderful he is or he'll be here all night. And the last thing I'd like to say is four days before Ron died, Liz, And Ross and I had a Zoom call with he and his wife. And he was weak, but he was quite alert. And I asked him, are you comfortable, Ron?

[30:25]

And he said, no. And Karen explained that he was having like spasms in the muscles of his legs. And that when they gave him a muscle relaxer, it made him drowsy. And he didn't want that. He wanted to be alert. So he wasn't on. the muscle relaxer. I was just so moved by that. You know, it just sounded so much like Ron to me. And he kept waving at us, you know, and we would wave back. And the next day, Ross texted me from Pittsburgh, where he is with his sister. And he said, I guess he was waving goodbye. And I said, Well, maybe, but I thought he was waving hello. Really, what's the difference, you know? Yeah. Well, I ever did. Exactly. Thank you.

[31:26]

Mary Moseen online would like to speak. Yes. Hi, Mary. We can't hear you. Hold on. I think I needed to get permission or something. Anyway, just a few things. Oh, I'm near tears when I think about it. One is I love his name. And he wouldn't like to hear what I'm about to say. I think it's, especially knowing Sojin, you say it's a... sort of subtle name, which is true, and it's a huge compliment, a huge appreciation of him from Mr. Ordinary. I mean, that's what people would often say about Sojin, that he's just so ordinary. Of course, they didn't know the kind of Sojin probably that Ron experienced in Shosan and that many of us experienced with him wasn't so ordinary.

[32:34]

But at any rate, I think it's a wonderful name. And when I started the Vallejo Zen Center, he was tremendously supportive. He was a pillar here too. And he came and helped us lay out all the pavers in the patio. Many of you did, by the way. And he would come. He lectured here a lot. He led a one-day sitting at least once. And we felt like he was very much a teacher here too. And I always felt he was somebody I could depend on. And just as he came to your dance performances, he came to our summer garden party every single time, including the last one, which was about two years ago. And I didn't invite him because I knew that he was pretty ill then. He wasn't leaving the house much. And it just seemed like it wasn't right to expect him to get up here and sit in the sun for an hour or two.

[33:45]

And I was coming down the back stairs with some more food for the table or something, and I looked out at the crowd, and there was Ron. He came, and it wasn't easy for him, and he needed a better chair, and he needed a cushion and whatever, but he came. And I'm still tremendously moved by that. And I saw him, I don't know, a few weeks ago, I guess. And he was pretty weak, and he could sort of talk, but it was very hard to understand him, and he couldn't get the breath out for there to be volume to it. But still, I had this tremendous feeling of the love that was coming from him, and I was also able to tell him that again how much I appreciated him. It was wonderful to see him. Anyway, he always struck me as somebody who was a pillar.

[34:56]

I think that's a great way of describing him. And I always see them watering the plants on those bollards, I think they're called, at the end of the street. Thank you for telling me what those things are. Well, I'm not sure, but I think so. Anyway, thank you for this. Thank you, Ellen. What I wanted to share was When I came to the Berkman Center at his machine, often Ron was the work cleaner. At this particular machine, my assignment was to clean Sojin Roshi's office. I set out with my supplies and went in the office. There was Sojin Roshi. I proceeded to clean it, but Sojin Roshi was walking around. So I left the office and went to find Ron and told him my dilemma and how I was mystified about how to proceed.

[36:09]

And Ron was skillful, gracious, and graceful, and non-judgmental, like you said, Ellen. And his solution was to give me an alternate assignment and he proceeded to clean Sojin Roji's office. Thank you. We have another person on Zoom and then Laura. Okay. Katie? Thanks, Ellen. I'll be quick. It's mostly just wonderful to feel wrong here. I just wanted to say that when I first started practicing at BCC in 2008, 2009, I somehow immediately just picked up on Ron's presence, and he was immediately one of my favorite people. Just his smile, his unassumingness, and just my experience of him was there was always just something a little unexpected.

[37:10]

He was so kind, and his mind was so sharp. He saw things in a little bit different way and was wonderful at communicating that. And I just always saw him as a role model of, I don't know, what practice could be and could bring out in someone. And, yeah, it's just wonderful hearing so much about him. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Lori. Just a couple. sort of ends of the spectrum or something, I also remember about his incredible project leading in work leadering, and he sponsored the bathroom, getting that disabled bathroom, and saw that project through, and he also tracked like what he, the painting, there was like constantly painting, he knew what the next paint was, and he also the oiling of his endo, he tracked how, and he was just really tracking stuff, and tending to stuff,

[38:15]

and sponsoring that. And the other thing that he sponsored in the senior student group, he would often challenge us, and he did it in this very gentle, he never felt judgment, but he was like, well, what's meaningful about that? Like someone would say something, or we would be discussing things kind of discursively maybe, and then he would just say, what's meaningful about that to you? what's the essence of your practice or what, and he would, towards, I think in recent years, he wanted us to do this thing where we ran around and anybody who had something like that struck them in the month before, it wasn't like, it didn't have to be a Kencho experience, but he was sort of pointing at, you know, he would sort of elicit us to be thinking about our practice in this way like, well, what struck you this last month? What happened to you that felt like dharma, you know?

[39:18]

So it was sort of like similar to the painting almost, like he was kind of kept at us in this way, which I really appreciated, yeah. Yeah, thank you. Ross, on Zoom. Hey, Ellen, good to see you. Good to see you. I'm with my sister in Pittsburgh, and I wanted to say she's never met you, nor has she ever met Ron. And this is the first time that she was on video. She's in her hospital room at the moment. But the thing that she said was, it's really beautiful to see Ellen's face as people are sharing stories about Ron. And it's... It was very poignant for me to hear that coming from my sister. And also it's a reminder that we reflect each other. So we hear each other, we see each other, we feel each other, whether they're dead or alive, whether they're saying hello or goodbye.

[40:28]

Thank you very much. I feel so close to everybody on the other side of the world here. And thank you for Zoom. Thank you, Ellen. Thank you. Gary. Hi, thanks Ellen. I really appreciated Ron because of his forthrightness to take care of himself. He had a curved back, which may be scoliosis, I'm not sure. But he would always, or he often led to stretching in Sashin and yoga.

[41:33]

And I still do some of those yoga moves. So I'm living through him, or he's living through me. The other thing he did is he had COPD, but he had a variant of it, and he would go running. And I often saw him wearing really weird shoes. He would try all these types of shoes, and one time he had ones that had your your toes separated from each other in these rubber shoes. So that's a side of him I wanted to share. Thank you. He's an interesting guy. Very interesting. Leslie. Oh, Jake. Sue's here too.

[42:35]

So just a couple of things I wanted to say. First, a little more on the serious side. But when I was on the board for 10 years, partly as president, Ron was our go-to person in mediation of conflicts with things that were going on in the sangha. For a while, he wasn't on the board. And we invariably say, oh, how about get Ron to talk to those people and get back to us? And then later he was on the board and he had that role. And I think he had that role because he was so egoless and so nonjudgmental and could hear all sides. And people saw that and respected it for him and felt comfortable talking to him. He was very comfortable to be around in that way, I thought. Then I also want to mention, Leslie and I did some hikes with Karen and Ron, and we'd go just a little ways, and he said, well, I think we'll just stop here.

[43:42]

You guys can go on, but I like this spot. We hadn't gone very far. Oh, no, no, this is fine. Don't have to go any further. And he was just so easily, I don't know, happy and joyous and simple things, and there wasn't any... gaining idea for him that I saw. And it made it a real pleasure to be in his presence, to be around him. Reminded me a lot of Sojin. So thank you. So Maria Teresa. Thank you for your talk. It really touches the heart to hear again about Ron, because I think he lives within us.

[44:44]

Definitely left a mark. And I'm aware that different members have written little biographical notes, and I'm hoping that those will be collected and put in a library or something. Andrea is sort of in charge of that. Oh, wonderful. Thank you, Andrea. Thank you. That's great, because I'd like to read some of those. I had the great pleasure of meeting Ron as the very first person when I came to the Berkley Center back in 1993, or something like that. And I loved going to his Sunday class. beginner's class or whatever, where he would instruct us what to do, and so on. And then I had to leave, after going through my ceremony, I had to leave town, and I was away for eight years, and I came back, and I had a lot of trouble finding

[45:59]

In Florida, I've had a lot of trouble finding teachers there. As a matter of fact, in one of the cases, one of the teachers who was visiting told the people who were having the center, why don't you ask her and follow what she said, and I'm like, whoa, you know. But when I started here, I'm really committed to this, so it was really wonderful. So when I came back, I said, I really want to learn more about Sen, and I've been traveling. And I saw that Ron was working with Jen out there in the porch. And so I said, what's happening here? He said, oh, Ron is instructing Jen. And I went, oh, he does that? And so I contacted him. And for a year and a half, two years, every Monday, for an hour and a half, he and I would meet by phone, because at this time I was in Mendocino, and we would go over different books, and we read these, and yes, he definitely wanted me to come join your group, and I said the same, I said, I don't understand koans, you know, I read them, and he really was impressed with that, but I have to say that in my experience with Ron, his hero,

[47:27]

was Suzuki Roshi and Beginner's Mind. I mean, he kept coming back and back to that book. And it was really wonderful, wonderful. I mean, it was pure. Thank you. Thank you. Now we have Clay on Zoom. Hi, Owen. Thank you very much for that recollection. I had no idea that you had known Ron for that long. And I first came to Berkley Zen Center in the 1990s, and Ron was often the work leader or the Saturday director or things like that. And one of my... Well, I always really looked up to him for his work ethic and his fastidiousness and his clarity. And I have one memory that... from a work period that I'll never forget.

[48:30]

It was a great teaching. I was assigned to like scrape or sand some of one of the buildings up on a ladder. And it was a little precarious, but I was sanding and scraping for a while and then the work period ended. And I thought I'd be helpful by taking down the ladder and putting away the tools. And so I, I put away the ladder. and between the two buildings, the building to the west and our building, 1931. And then I came back, and Ron found me, and he said, I need to show you something. And I said, okay. So we went over to the ladders, and he said, when you put away the ladders, you always lock them up, because otherwise they can get stolen. And You know, there was a big lock and I had no idea this is how the ladders were kept because I hadn't actually gotten the ladder out.

[49:31]

But it didn't. The point of it was just to carry the job all the way through. And he took the effort to make sure that I knew what the thing that was that wasn't really important. The other thing that's kind of funny, and you might remember this because it was a little bit more recently, but I think he had given a talk or something and he had sort of copped to being somewhat obsessive about detail and things like that, kind of like locking up the ladders and things. And I said, I raised my hand and I said, Ron, it seems like you're... revising your ways a little bit. And I'm not sure I can handle this because I've looked up to you for so long and now you're telling me that the way you were doing things was a little bit over the top. And it was just a very funny comment. And then I think it reflected a little bit of his mellowing about some of the work responsibilities and things like that as time went on at Brooklyn's End Center and he went on with his practice.

[50:44]

Nice, nice. The last thing is just that he was a member of the Chronic Health Issues Dharma Group. And he was one of the original members. And he was a wonderful member and a contributing member so much. And, you know, unfortunately, we got to see him decline over a period of years. And eventually, he wasn't able to attend anymore. So that really wasn't that long ago. But I think he had emphysema, which was... you know, reducing the oxygen supply to his brain. So thank you so much. Thank you, Ellen, for short notice leading us today in sharing and everyone else for sharing.

[51:56]

I started practicing online during COVID. But despite the digital forum felt an affinity for Ron, he seemed to be kind of no-nonsense. as his name, but not a lot of flourishes, whether exterior or verbal. He just really seemed to like, get to the point. Don't go on. And I really liked that. I really felt attracted to that. I felt a similarity with him there. And eventually, there wasn't Zazen instruction organized yet online. So I asked him, can you give me Zazen instruction? He's like, well, we can try. And so that was pretty funny, just like different parts of our bodies not being visible and like, okay, I can't see your head, but I can see this, and then we'll change the angle and stuff.

[53:01]

But he worked with me. And I really do love... At that age, what his attitude was, every time anyone talked about emptiness, you know, they'd be this thing, oh, emptiness, I like boundlessness, oh, emptiness sounds so negative, and finally he'd just be like, empty of own being. That's what it means. He'd just be really adamant about, like, that's what it is. Stop getting all these other ideas in your head. I would just wait for him for that comment. Any one time empty kids came up as a subject, like, oh, there's Ron, got his hand up. And then when we came back in person, started practicing again, reopening, you know, regularly, he'd come every morning. And he would, he would mainly sit on the lower tongue here. And I remember him telling me, the most shocking thing I heard him say was, oh yeah,

[54:05]

I like sitting on the lower ton because the wood's kind of interesting. The wall's really boring. I was like, this is the most unsaid thing I've ever heard. You have this preference, and not only that, but you're looking at this. So I was like, whoa. First I didn't say anything. And another moment which really hit me, that made a connection with me, was he was standing outside the bulletin board, staring at the bulletin board, and he just goes, there was too much going on here. You keep things simple. And that's what I felt an affinity with him. He never seemed like he was rushing. He never seemed like he was doing too much. Nothing extra. And that's what attracted me to him. working on the archive project. I've learned a lot about the history of BCC.

[55:05]

And as Greg said now, and Ed mentioned at the memorial service this morning, he helped literally raise this place. But as far as I understand, at that time, he was also doing a million other things. I could be wrong, but I think he may have been president at that time. He was like, He trained all the dough on Rio. He was sort of the Zendo manager. There weren't positions at that time. I believe positions were created so that Ron could delegate things and no longer had to do everything himself. Learning about that, in order to move into this property and get it approved with the city and the neighborhood, he went and surveyed and spoke to every neighbor to get what their feelings and what their views and perspectives and concerns about us moving in here. And that whole survey still exists up in the building next door in the archives, all the work that he did to find out what their concerns were and find out how can we find alternative parking at what used to be Safeway and is now Berkeley.

[56:15]

So I developed an immense respect for Ron as the person who just did so much when Russell Street was getting off the ground. And he burned out and he said like, I need someone else to help me. And I'm really touched by my own connection with him and learning about how much he did at this place. Just monumental and kind of in the background, now somewhat hiding in bankers boxes upstairs, but I'm very, very thankful for him. Yeah. Thank you.

[56:58]

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