Unsurpassed, penetrating and perfect dharma is rarely met with even than a hundred thousand million kalpas. Having it to see and listen to, to remember and accept, I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's words. Good morning, Berkeley Zen Center Sangha. Welcome to everyone, and especially welcome to our speaker today, Judy Fleischman. Judy grew up in New York City and began Zen practice in 1998, ordaining with Enkyo O'Hara at Village Zendo and has worked in healthcare chaplaincy. She arrived at Berkeley Zen Center in 2013 and has been practicing along with Norman Fisher's Everyday Zen Makor Orr. Judy co-facilitates the annual Jehovah ceremony, memorializing children who've died, as well as the MLK Neighborhood Engagement honoring Dr. King each year.

[01:10]

Please give a warm welcome and all of your attention to today's speaker. Thank you, Judy. Thank you, Ross, and good morning, everybody. Good morning. Just a note of clarification. So, Everyday Zen is Asanga who's in our Dharma family. and the guiding teacher is Norman Fisher. And many moons ago, Norman and Rabbi Allen Lou, who practiced here as Zen students for 10 years, then went on one to become a Zen teacher and the other to become a rabbi. And together they formed a Jewish Meditation Center that's based in San Francisco. Rabbi Lou sadly passed some years ago, but that Church Meditation Center continues with Norman and Rabbi Lou's student, and now Rabbi Dorothy Richmond.

[02:14]

And the name of that community is Makor, or which means source of light. So it connects to us, I think, in many ways, particularly in terms of Suzuki Roshi talking about shining light. of the world as we are today. So thank you all for being here and all the light that you bring to this moment. Thank you. How's that? Is that okay? Is that a SOSA? Better? Okay. And folks online, thumbs up. Oh, I see some thumbs up. I can't tell if we have folks in the community room today. Okay, well, here we all are.

[03:24]

So, we are officially entering the second week of our spring practice period, and one of the wonderful things that happened this morning, already, is that we brought back a time-honored practice here, which is about breakfast here on a Saturday morning, and thanks to our Tenzo, our cooked today, and all those helping in the kitchen, and the servers and everyone for helping to bring that into this moment. It's very much connected to our study text, this practice period, our own beloved founding avid, Sojin Roshi, and his book, Seeing One Thing Through.

[04:26]

So this is our practice. And during this practice period, as we continue to study this text, to study ourselves, each time someone speaks, and also in an ongoing class that we have on Thursday evenings, the first of which we just had, led by Lucian Jerry Oliva, we are focusing on different sections from the book. So today I'm going to be speaking to two sections. One is called Breath, and the other dauntingly and simply entitled Zazen in Daily Life. And for anyone who wants to check those out, if you haven't already, or check them again,

[05:32]

This section on breath is in pages 103 to 108. And Zazen in daily life is pages 275 to 277. So breath and Zazen in daily life. it's humbling to even open my mouth and tackle that. I want to say that again. Breath, Zazen, daily life. And as I was pondering this, and the breath and depth of what Sojin has to say about it, I realized

[06:36]

for that to really be real, to not just be some kind of abstract conversation about these things. It needed to be relevant. And I sat with, with breath, yeah, of what's the relevance right now? And of course the relevance right now connects to a timeless, relevance. And I realized that what I would, or at least what I would like to invite in today is to pay particular attention to how breath, Zazam, meet daily life and support us in living with multiple perspectives and the narratives that go along with these. First of all, how do we navigate them in our, quote, own psyches?

[07:42]

Something that we have a lot of familiarity with, sitting on the cushion, but not only on the cushion. In fact, that's a great motivation for why we sit on the cushion. But of course, also in relationship. Just as the organs of the body are in relationship, we are in relationship. and therefore in the world. And whenever I say the world, I often think of, it's a pretty famous Zen phrase that's a culmination of a koan, but the question put out there is, what do you call the world? So how can we explore all that? How do we breathe with all of this and find a way through?

[08:49]

We have a lot going on in this world. We have a lot going on in ourselves. And particularly, Each of us finds ourself in particular circumstances, in particular situations, and because of the conditions of our life, what's brought us to this moment, and who, and so on, there are certain issues and situations that might be more up, might be more pressing, might be more particularly when we sit down on the cushion and they just come up. Sometimes we don't even realize, oh, there's that. But also just out in daily life.

[09:56]

And some of them can have more charge than others. Maybe what we experience as catastrophes with great urgency, high stakes. And in those moments, what we're really needing is to somehow touch into and be able to respond with wise and compassionate action. And I don't know about you, but the challenge in that, which of course is also the opportunity, is How do I know what's a wise and compassionate action in this moment? Is it based on what others are saying? Is it based on multiple voices I'm hearing or different tensions in the body, this body, this body?

[11:01]

How do I attune to that? Well, fortunately, we have some guidelines and we have a wonderful, wonderful teacher to draw for great wisdom and compassion. So to begin, let's just come back to the breath. So Jung would say, you should always know where the breath is. And at the same time, our practice is returning. So if you somehow drifted In this moment, come back to the breath, where the breath, you feel the breath most present in the body. Really noticing the simple and also the eloquence of that movement.

[12:03]

This is what Sojin starts with, Speaking of the breath, inhaling, exhaling. This is the fundamental movement of our life. Breathe in and take that in. Inhaling, exhaling. This is the fundamental movement of our life. And then, interestingly, and also, you know, one of the things I really appreciate about, first of all, the way Sojin spoke, his cadence, his tone, his attunement, also comes through very much in what's written on the page. Sometimes because they're actually drawn from lectures from Q&A and so on.

[13:12]

But also, it's just very seamless. And to me, it very much reminds me of his own teacher, I love it, Suzuki Roshi, and how he spoke and wrote. And so one of the interesting things in this section on breathing is how Sojin segues from speaking of the breath as the fundamental movement of our life, to then speaking of common activities in daily life, many of which we've been practicing all morning, walking, activities in the kitchen, but also ones that for some of us, God is here, particularly speaks of driving, and many of us also bike, and when biking, in relationship with those driving, and also those walking.

[14:16]

And when he speaks of these, he encourages us to pay attention to how breathing harmonizes with the movements in these activities of getting around. One that I really find very helpful is when he's speaking about kinhen, about a walking practice, and lifting or lowering a foot. And when we offer instruction for kinhen, we speak of that. Sojin would often remind us when there were many people in the Zen Dao, and also that we're moving together. So sometimes, for whatever reason, somebody's zipping along, even though it's slow cannon, relative to everyone, and what happens is that sooner usually rather than later,

[15:33]

counter, there's another person in front of them, and there's nowhere to go. So, Sojin would invite us, if that's the case, typically when we would give Kinnan instructions, as I recall, and you know, it's a little different in different centers, but it's one breath, one step, or two steps and one breath and so on. But if you're there and what can happen also is you have a bunch of people who are all bunched up and then there's a lot of space. And so Sojin would encourage us, well in that case, enjoy a few breaths before you take a step. And so this is one way that that we're attuning and also being with breath and that movement and a movement, if you will, of daily activity.

[16:44]

And it's interesting because we're talking about movement and movement among other things. And so Sojin writes, to actually pay attention to breath and the movement in this way is how to carry our meditation practice into our daily life and he adds our state of mind and the breath are very much connected this is why it is important to harmonize body mind and breath and resume our natural state of mind which is free of conditioning But what does that mean to be free of conditioning? What are the conditions you're facing right now?

[17:56]

And also, what's this business about harmonizing? And harmonizing body mind and breath. That's very specific. Well, it all comes back to Zazen. And we don't necessarily frame it this way often, but we could ask, what are we doing in Zazen? We don't speak so much about doing in Zazen, because like that old sort of joke, you know, it says, don't, what is it? Don't just do something, sit there, is where we place emphasis, right? On the being. But being and doing are not separate. So it can be helpful to emphasize something that we de-emphasize at times.

[18:58]

in a certain context, and Sojin lays out that context for us, which is the following. He writes, we relate to our breath as a constant companion. It helps us to respond rather than just reacting. Hmm. In mindfulness, you know, in the secular mindfulness movement, often mindfulness is described as your companion, I think, and also in different Buddhist communities.

[20:00]

Thich Nhat Hanh I think speaks of mindfulness as like a good friend who's with you. So we have a connection here also of mindfulness and breath. But also this is just very practical encouragement. And Sojin likes Suzuki Roshi in his manner of expressing the Dharma. In this particular book, specifically, it's a very straightforward language, and it's very accessible. And there's a deep wellspring of core teachings, both in Soto Zen lineage, and Buddhism generally, and with this recognition that when we talk about harmonizing, when we talk about no separation, that what we're really speaking to is that our life, what you think your life is, is not necessarily the whole of life, of your life.

[21:25]

Your life is the life of the whole universe. How do we actually inhabit that? Inhale. Exhale. Do you hear the birds? I hear them in stereo up here. And I'm breathing with them.

[22:32]

So I'm suddenly aware that this eye includes these birds in stereo. Sound. All our senses line together. So there's something here too in pondering. Why did Sojin emphasize that we can respond rather than react? Sure, because it comes up a lot. But we have a saying in Zen, what is an appropriate response? We don't actually say what's an appropriate reaction.

[23:36]

And every time I'm on Zoom, and somebody gives an instruction around to raise your hand, you have to go click the Reactions tab. I'm reminded of that. What's an appropriate response in the Reactions tab? It's to raise or lower one's hand. And we need, I think, this kind of a playful approach to play with language to really suss out what we doing in Zazen in our life so in Zazen what we're doing is we're enacting what we speak to what he speaks to Because each breath is an opportunity to be present.

[24:48]

We're not breathing in order to get somewhere any more than we're sitting down on the cushion and we're adjusting our posture to get to somewhere. Sometimes we think that. And our zazen instruction is that when a thought bubbles up, when it's secreted in the mind, that we hear many times around here that came from Suzuki Roshi, we welcome thoughts, we don't invite them to tea. And sometimes I experience that as we have a form that if you're walking on the path and someone else is walking on the path towards you, that you pause and you bow. However, as Suzuki Roshi said, not always so, when there's certain kinds of activity, like the Kanan line is going by outside and...

[26:06]

you want to join that line or something like that and maybe the line is moving towards you, you don't necessarily bow, you just get out of the way so that the line can go forward and you can join. Or sometimes, like when we're serving and we're carrying pots or we're going back to the kitchen to get stuff or whatever and you... You're on the path facing one another. You don't stop and bow. You keep going. You go with the flow of what's happening. And that itself is harmonizing, and it really helps to be aware of the breath. And so in that way, just as in Zazen, each time we breathe, we're really arriving in this moment. We're not doing something in order to get to some other moment, some other state, something like that.

[27:10]

And Dogen called this, that Zazen is the Dharma game. We could say it's going with the flow, but how do we really enter that flow? And how do we harmonize body, breath and mind? Sojin is talking about, well, he offers a way. He says, when we put our mind down there in the hara, and the hara is in our belly, just below our belly button, then from here, something will come forth. This is to have faith in our true nature. So where's the breath for you right now? Sometimes it's helpful just to put a hand right there just below the belly, and see what it's like to really feel the breath there and maintain that as much as possible.

[28:15]

So what is that to put the mind in the belly? It's like, what do you call the world? What do you call mind? Well, the character, the character for the kanji, the character for mind is also heart, and sometimes we say heart-mind, and heart-mind are not separate from body, so sometimes you'll see heart-mind-body. So in a way, harmonizing body, breath, and mind is just one flaw. And also, When he writes, this is to have faith in our true nature, it's not that our true nature, sometimes called Buddha nature, is hidden. It's not something that we're trying to uncover, like some kind of game of hide and seek, like it's a goal.

[29:20]

But it's really flowing with the whole universe. and as simply as paying attention to the breath, the belly. And there's a confidence there. And also faith, this faith in our true nature, this faith that it's not an idea, although we can make it one, Because again, it's not a goal or a destination. It's actually an activity of harmonizing body, breath, mind, heart, mind. And the word for harmony is sangha. Sangha has many meanings, but it also is this activity.

[30:30]

of harmonizing, and so it would often encourage us, as our kokyo this morning did, Susan, to listen to the kokyo, to harmonize when we're chanting. Follow the kokyo, excuse me. And in that way, we're listening to everyone, and we're listening to the whole body. And what that means is that we don't negate any voice. We attune and we respond. And there's something very subtle and significant about that because we live in a world of dichotomies, particularly I as subject and whatever I am observing.

[31:34]

as object. And in Sazen instruction, one of the things that confused me for a very long time is, one, how can you have an instruction around just sit? Isn't that doing something, and isn't that doing counter to the whole point of this, which is just to be? So again, it's really interesting that Sojin talks about doing What is that activity? And what I realized over time, just following that instruction, is often we start with counting the breath and then following the breath. What happens in following the breath is that this I that's following that thing, the breath, subject-object, that framework actually falls away, and there's just flow.

[32:49]

And what's subtle about this is that the bell rings, we don't particularly have a memory of that, unless we could perhaps call that a body memory, but sitting down again on the cushion, following the breath, transforms as an activity into harmonizing body, breath, and mind. And of course it helps that we do this together. Even through Zoom. Something about wherever we are, we are embodied and we somehow resonate with one another. But particularly sitting here in this room, that that's the one body breathing

[34:04]

together, harmonizing that activity. And then you notice, or there's just flowers that I don't have a word for in the moment. It's one of the blessings of both being a Cheaton and also offering at the altar. Something actually that we all have an opportunity to do here at the Abbot Seat as an offering of well-being both for him

[35:07]

and for Ron Nestor, one of our great teachers, Elder Bodhisattva. And really when we offer, as in when we offer a dedication at the end of any service for well-being, we always include all beings. So we'll all have an opportunity actually to encounter and alter the flower and all beings together with the particular beings that are in our hearts, our heart-mind. And so it's a live moment. And that's just so incredible. And such a simple, seemingly simple, a point of emphasis around breath and its place in zazen.

[36:18]

We have a way to respond to whatever and whoever we encounter in this life, in this world. And we cannot know in advance what that's going to be. That's that faith in action. It says here, faith in true nature, in Buddha nature, which is none other than the reality of our life. And Sojin refers to this. He says, if you're always breathing deeply and are aware of your breathing, you have the opportunity to establish your mind and calmness because you are used to doing that in zazen. When a problem comes up, you can establish yourself in your breath on this moment. And then he speaks of that when we do zazen, he uses that word, do, when we do zazen, the activity of zazen, prajna, the wisdom or the

[37:38]

heart understanding, the understanding of our waking up together, our bodhisattva vow. That wisdom arises in the world and our activity proceeds from zazen and is sustained as compassionate action. And he adds, we can practice for the benefit of all beings without being attached to impossible results. seemingly impossible, like when we say, beings are numberless, I vow to save them. And then he punctuates all this with, this is shikantaza, just doing. And that's really interesting because it's most frequently translated as just sitting. So he's playing to help us be free.

[38:46]

And maybe Nike got it from Shikantaza. One never knows. Just doing. But Nike's a little different because they say just do it. We release the object. in the subject. Just doing. Just flowing. Just harmonizing. This is our practice. And it serves a beautiful purpose which is to offer and express much needed compassion for ourselves and for everyone. This is being. This is doing. This is our life in Sangha, our practice. And I want to leave you just with a short few lines.

[40:01]

expressed this in a beautiful way. It's from a recent poem by Norman Fisher. It's just an excerpt from the beginning. It's a poem entitled Two Things. Two things cannot occupy the same space at the same time unless each one isn't as it seems but flows through itself into the uncongealed space of the heart. And I believe this just doing is precisely that, that space that is our life together. So we have a little time for some questions, for some comments.

[41:06]

Judy, could you read the poem one more time? Sure. Two things. Two things cannot occupy the same space at the same time unless each one isn't, as it seems, but flows through itself into the uncongealed space of the heart. Yeah, Margo, oh, do we need a mic, Jo? Just on this personal. Oh, okay, thank you, Margo. much be appreciating what you're talking about and disrupting the duality between inside and outside when you think about where we experience the whole universe and also kind of talking about the tuning for response.

[42:28]

I'm wondering if you could maybe connect those a little bit more. How does seeing our life in its totality, what I might think about as my psyche and then the voices of others, how does disrupting any idea of inside-outside help me to attune to what is the appropriate response? Does that make sense? How does disrupting inside and outside help you to respond? Yes, an interesting choice of word, disrupting, and it's a very popular word these days. So how can... How can I touch into the energetics or the purpose of disrupting, and for instance, experiencing it as harmonizing or flowing?

[43:38]

For instance, I think of it as a kind of koan. How does one harmonize with dissonance? And we have some wonderful composers who have played with that over time. But the point being that everything's included. So outside is included in inside, and inside is included in outside. And so what's the opposite of disrupting? It's an interesting question to sit with, right? disrupting acceptance, accepting disruptance. So again, playing with the subject-object dichotomy that we so automatically fall into and turning those to actually be a lived embodied experience.

[44:46]

I think the way Sojin's speaking to harmonizing body, breath, and mind. So one way to do that is like there's a practice of listening to sound and you ask yourself, is the sound inside or outside? So that's a way. But in Zazen, we don't do that sort of thing. What we do is we sit with, for instance, disrupting, feeling that in the body. And then also aware of the breath flowing through. And whatever that tension is, it's just moving through. We don't fixate on it and we don't negate it. So sometimes a phrase bubbles through, like I'm sitting on the cushion and sometimes we call it a moment of insight.

[45:50]

disrupting inside and outside it bubbles up while you're sitting but you don't then analyze that or chase that or whatever you just allow that to be and it's connected to some sensation or whatever you let it allow it to just flow through And in a way, when you're doing that, you are disrupting inside and outside. Because you're flowing as that space where everything's included. Is that helpful? And it's not easy. That's why we keep returning to the cushion. And it's also why we are in dialogue. Thank you.

[46:55]

Anyone else? Yes, I've forgotten your name. Mazzeek. Mazzeek, is it? My name is Mazzeek. Mazzeek, excuse me. So you started with, first of all, thank you for everything that we went through. You started with Everyday Life and what I thought was towards the end talking about this kind of like no subject to object and become heavenly oneness and being within that space. And there was mention of Norman Fisher's poetry. There was a mention of Arthur. The question is, so getting to everyday life, trying to practice or exercise that mentality or being being that mentality. When there's so much mass suffering in the world, and then there's heart that can take only so much, do boundaries mean anything at all?

[48:02]

Or are we talking about an ideal place of being there that boundaries don't mean anything because there's no subject object, but maybe I'm just not there? Yeah, I guess. Yeah, we live in the both and. So we're fully human and we're fully Buddha. And the word Buddha means awake. So what does it mean to be really awake to our full humanity or our full responsibility in this world? This world where boundaries are very important. for a lot of reasons. And we talk of healthy boundaries and unhealthy boundaries and just boundaries and unjust boundaries and so on. And we will continue to. How do we set boundaries, help boundaries, negotiate boundaries in a way that is actually doing compassionate action?

[49:18]

to come from a recognition that we are waking up together. And that can be really, really uncomfortable. So it's not that it's whatever ideal might be. Sometimes folks can be accused of being too idealistic. But really all we're doing is we're meeting whatever's happening with as much of that space that we are actually flowing with all the time, but we forget. And that's why it's really helpful to have the concretes like, where's the breath right now? See what it's like by the tension of the breath in the belly. Does it change anything when you encounter something that's got a charge for you?

[50:24]

We start with ourselves. And what do you do when you face the unexpected? Like we had a moment during Oreoki this morning where the server came by and, you know, we're still getting accustomed to our eating practice because it went away during the pandemic. And so the server arrives and our form is you have your bowl and you have a hand. And while you're being served, when you've had enough, you raise your hand. But sometimes we have variations depending on what's being served and how it's being served, how heavy it is, whatever. Sometimes people hold, especially the big bowl, in two hands. The server puts, let's say, cereal in there. in the time that they have put the cereal in the ladle and lifted it, you can just take your bowl away. It's kind of obvious, you don't need to go like this.

[51:25]

And we attuned to that. But in this case, it was time to get seconds, and we bowed, and I put my bowl out, and I think it was the juice. And earlier, when the server had come by, I did this thing which often we do when we used to do tea in the Zendo, you know, smaller cup and all, that people would put the cup out, the servers would come to pour tea, and instead of lifting a hand like this, because you're holding the teacup, you just go like this with a finger, something like that. And, you know, servers would learn that that meant that's enough. So it was in the body, and because it was liquid, And so the first time I was served, that's what I did. I put the ball out, the server was pouring liquid, and I went like this. And he caught on, and so he stopped, and that was fine. But the second time around, a different moment, I put the ball out, and I went to put my hand beside the ball, like remembering, oh.

[52:32]

But for the server, my guess is it was confusing because the hand was in motion. And so, you know, reading it as, because he had just started to pour, and I brought my hand over, and I think I lifted it a little bit as I was bringing it over, and he read that as, oh, it's enough, and because he's really paying attention, even though it's only been a little bit of liquid, he stopped, and then I went, oh, and he caught on, and I poured some more, and then I went like this, and we both chuckled quietly. And to me, that's a beautiful example of boundaries. finding our way together. There are flexible boundaries that are appropriate to the situation. So thank you for your question. And we're going to transition in just a few minutes after closing BOWS to the courtyard for Tea and Cookies, which our director will tell us more about. And also because of the practice period, Mary and I happen to be the ones hosting today

[53:41]

a practice period tea, and I think we have a few more spots if anyone wants to sign up for that, and that will be after the whole community tea and cookies. And during those times, there will be more time for a conversation around this. So thank you, everyone, and let's keep flowing. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it. Beings are numberless.

[54:43]

I vow to awaken with them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it. Beings are numberless. I vow to awaken with them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it.

[55:46]

Good morning. Welcome to Berkeley Zen Center. Special welcome to anyone who's here for the first time. If you have any questions about practice here at BCC, please speak with today's Zazen instructor, Sue Osher, raising their hand. On Monday morning at 8 a.m., Luminous Heart Penelope Thompson will give away Seeking Mind Talk on Zoom. There'll also be a monitor set up in the community room if you'd like to watch the talk together. The practice period class will continue on Thursday evenings from 7.15 to 8.45 p.m. We are studying Sojin Roshi's teaching in the book, Seeing One Thing Through. The class will be in person and on Zoom. Next Saturday, Ikushin Jerry Oliva will give the Dharma talk. Practice period participants, please sign up now for the practice period dinner if you plan to attend. The sign-up sheet is on the patio bulletin board. And also please sign up on the community room porch bulletin board to help with the practice period dinner prep and cleanup.

[58:26]

And that's next Saturday, May 18th, is when the practice period dinner will be. Practice period participants can also now sign up on the patio bulletin board for group teas, which Judy just mentioned, with senior students. Today, Judy and Mary will be hosting the tea. That's at 1145. Check out the bulletin board for future dates and if There's space available today. Some recurring announcements. Sangha members who identify as Black, Indigenous, or people of color are welcome to meetings held on the first Monday each month from 6.30 to 7.30 via Zoom. For more information, if you're online, please see the links for recurring activities. As a reminder, the Zendo is a scent-free environment. Please refrain from wearing scented body care products or clothes that are laundered with scented products. For more information about our programs or membership or to make a donation to support BZC, check out the bulletin board or visit the website.

[59:30]

After we exit the Zendo, we'll have tea and cookies. Could I please have two volunteers to help with washing up the teacups afterwards? One more, please. We got a couple. We got one here and one in the back. All right. Thank you very much. Those in the Zendo, please maintain silence until you have exited the Zendo and are off the Zendo steps. And if you're online, you can feel free to unmute and greet one another. And while you're exiting, before you exit, feel free to make a flower offering at the Abbot seat for Hozon Roshi's well-being and for the well-being of Ron Nestor. Those who are on the ground, if you could scoot the cushions underneath the tom to make room for people. Thank you very much. Hi, everyone.

[60:33]

Good morning, Sangha. It's good to see you all. Good to see you all. Good to see everybody here. It's good to see you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye now. Great to see you. Have a great day.

[60:43]

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