sign up and join the party. We're asking for a three-day participation two of the days consecutive. And you can see the link on the Berkley Zen Center website. Maybe someone can post that link in the chat. That would be great. You can also contact the session director if you have any questions that's Gary Artem and I'm really looking forward to this sort of time out from our regular my regular your regular daily routine this is a refreshing and it's something that I think we need as we head into more holidays and we head into the turning of the year with all that is unknown.

[01:08]

So please do join us for Sashin, and I look forward to seeing you there. Meanwhile, while we're speaking about Sashin, I'd like to follow up on... one thread of the discussion after Mary Duryea's talk last week. I think this went to some degree unsaid, and I'd just like to make it clear. If anyone is having difficulty at Sechin, you know, sesheen face-to-face, which is what we're so used to, or an online sesheen, and whether the difficulty is physical or mental. This is really something that we want to know about.

[02:16]

I want to know about, the sesheen director wants to know about, we want to know about, and we want to respond to. Of course, each of us has to determine the difficulty we are experiencing. Difficulty is not necessarily a bad thing at all. And, you know, we create difficulty for ourselves anyway in the form of sishin by maintaining this upright, cross-legged posture for hours a day. And certain kinds of pain are going to come up. And it's very good for us to learn how to treat that pain, how to include it in our zazen, and to recognize that

[03:26]

how we meet the pain in our legs is analogous to how we meet the various kinds of pain in our life. And this is actually part of the, it's at the heart of practice. At the heart of practice, as the Buddha said, I teach about suffering and the end of suffering. So, We have to be able to experience the various kinds of pain that naturally arises and find out how to meet it. But it's important to understand that when that pain arises, We are not alone with it.

[04:28]

And in a sense, it doesn't belong to us in the sense we understand that the self that we experience is a constantly changing flow of aggregates. And also our practice is such that we sit together. Not all Buddhist forms are like this. You know, I've been to places in Southeast Asia where the monks and nuns, each of them sits in their kuti, their little cabin, one-person cabin, or in some places they still have a meditation place in a cave. And they sit alone.

[05:30]

They may come together for chanting. Our form is to sit together. And we're doing this in a kind of revised fashion online, of course. And it's not exactly the same. sitting side by side in the zendo. But still, I want you to understand that you're not alone if you have a difficulty. And if you feel like this difficulty is something that include or get yourself around, then we've talked about this for a number of years. And if you're having such a problem, mental or physical, please write to the Sachin director or write to me or write to one of the other practice leaders who are there.

[06:50]

And we will respectfully listen to you. and also help you figure out what the best plan is for you to take care of yourself if it's called for we have people who are trained medical professionals in our sangha and we have trained And we would ask one of you to, one of them to... So no one, I just want to be clear, no one should be left alone to tough it out through what you may see as a crisis. So even though...

[07:52]

again is an online event I still really think of it as sishin and I know that anything can arise within the container of sishin so if you find a need please feel free to reach out meanwhile just in sishin and actually all the time. Take good care. Get enough rest. Stay hydrated. Very important. Stay hydrated. And be kind to yourself. This being kind to yourself is part of the of the flavor of our Soto Zen school.

[09:00]

And just remember that. So that said, again, let's just take a pause and take a few mindful breaths. I'd like to talk about Sangha a bit. This has been now two years of testing times for our community and also for communities all over the world, really.

[10:03]

But it's also... testing time in our individual and in our family lives. And just as in Sejin, how we meet our painful legs, what we learn in these testing times can help us in times to come. whatever those times may bring. So, so far, we've met an unanticipated and unprecedented which is not over. You know, I'm sure like myself, many of you have been seeing the news and

[11:10]

watching the rising threat, another potentially virulent COVID wave with a variant that seems very serious. Parallel to the pandemic, we journeyed alongside our beloved teacher Sojin, through his illness, his declining health, and his death. I am grateful for your invitation to be the abbot and to embark on that, which is another transition. which means new forms of in our wise and wide community.

[12:20]

So each of these circumstances is a major kind of transition. And now, in the last month or so, we've been carefully examining the possibility of Opening the Zendo. In a. Sort of methodical way. Careful way. In the new year. And we do this without. If there are. We can contemplate this anyway. Without knowing if there are to be. Further waves of infection. Or. You know. Even. any real assurance of a durable immunity to the COVID virus. So we've met these circumstances as Sangha.

[13:23]

So I want to tell you the word Sangha is a Sanskrit language in a number of Indian languages. And it means essentially association or assembly, company or community. And it's interesting, it was historically used in the biblical context. Going back to the Buddhist time and even before that, it denoted the kind of governing assembly in a kingdom or a republic. And it has long been used by religious associations in India, including Buddhists, Jains, and Sikhs.

[14:33]

And Buddhism. Originally, it referred to the monastic community of bhikkhus, monks, and bhikkhunis, nuns. And then there was a separate designation of Sangha, Arya Sangha, which was the association or the loose assembly of all those who had entered one of the four stages of enlightenment to monastics, non-monastics, women and men. But in our modern understanding, and this is something that evolved with Mahayana Buddhism, some of the broad community of practitioners

[15:39]

which would include ordained and lay people. And that's a distinction that is not so clear in our tradition. But really, we think of the Maha Sangha. We think of the Sangha of all practitioners, and we feel some connection with them. And then we have the particularity of this Sangha, of the Berkeley Zen Center Sangha. So when I use the word, that's how I'm using it. That's how I'm thinking about it. I feel that everybody here is part of the Sangha. So the face is a Sangha about how to reopen really make for

[16:43]

a kind of new testing time. Within our community, there are some people who by virtual health conditions or a compromised immune system are not able to receive the COVID vaccine. There are those who, for reasons that I can well understand, are skeptical, run vaccination regime. And while I may disagree with that position, even though I have questions about, because I have questions about the government itself, I can understand it. There are some members who feel that we have been too cautious and too restrictive about opening

[17:46]

for practice on the BCC grounds. And they might feel that we should have opened a while ago. And there's some who feel we are moving too fast towards opening. So this is something that the Sangha leaders and all Sangha members have been discussing and offering input to. And as the abbot, I'm trying to up with and support measured policies and approaches with the full awareness that nothing these days is entirely safe.

[18:51]

And I understand our understanding of Dharma that this is not just true today, but it's always been true. Everything that we do involves some risks and hazards, and that's part of the nature of our life. I've also been in the last... really helpful discussions with Zen centers and teachers around the country. To see what their approaches and experiences might be. And I want to. Whatever we decide to do. If the circumstances change. we will change our response. If we're open and circumstances change and there's a wave of infection, then we'll close.

[19:54]

It's as simple as that. We're not going to get stuck in a particular course of action and, you know, ride that horse off the cliff. I hope that's not going to be the case, but all of us have noticed that things in life don't move in a straight line. And while we're looking at such points, I recognize that whatever we decide to do, Everyone is not going to be unhappy. Everyone's not going to be happy about it. There's no one choice, one strategy that we can make that everyone is going to say yes.

[21:01]

And that is part of the challenge of being a Sangha. I think one of the values that was always emphasized by Sojin Roshi and by all of our Zen ancestors is that we try to do things together. And this applies even when we may not fully understand or agree with that particular course. I want you to understand that I'm not going to be silent about your views. But also, at the same time, if we make our best considered decision, try it out.

[22:14]

You know, just try it out. And only when we make the effort to cooperate will we have a basis for understanding whether our direction is correct or not. So I find these questions very challenging. I've spent more than 20 years in a position supporting the abbot where I didn't have to make these decisions. He had to make them. And I must say from my present vantage point, I realized how comfortable that was not to have to make the decisions.

[23:20]

But it also has me reflecting on what my responsibilities are now and what teachings it seems important to highlight. You know, I was thinking about this talk all this week, and I had various ideas. And as is often the case, kind of things don't snap into focus relatively late. I would love to be tackling with you one of our deep koans that expressed that we love. to be exploring the wisdom of the ancestral teachings, or as I love, to look at the building blocks of basic Buddhism.

[24:38]

And that I wish that we had more opportunity to work one-on-one face. There's really nothing that gives me greater satisfaction than meeting with you. But as I reflect on the last two years, I realize a slightly different focus and You know, this talk is an expression of that. My effort has been to attend to the harmony of the Berkeley Zen Center Sangha, to hold us in harmony through these passages

[25:51]

challenges and concerns that we share. And so the shape of that is many meetings, many one-to-one discussions, taking walks with people. And in this, I am grateful the support that I've had from so many of you even in moments that we may not fully agree. So as I said before, and I'll reiterate, my door is literally open, literally and figuratively, if you will. And my promise is to do my best to listen. So to step back a moment, we'll be looking at kind of a piece of basic... Wow, the phone is ringing in here.

[27:03]

I have no idea. It never rings. I think I'm not going to answer it, if that's okay. But let's let it ring. I've heard a bell of mindfulness. Thank you. So the model for our Sangha governance is an ancient model, and it's also a modern model. So this is going back time where he lived in and around a confederation of city-states that were

[28:07]

functionally what we call republics a republic means it's a form of governments in which power is held by the people and or their elected representatives so in republics the country is concerned a public matter this is Not the private concern of a king or a dictator or an autocrat. It's not the property. The country is not the property of the rulers. So the Buddha borrowed this model from the city-state that he saw around him. And this is early democracy. So I want to read you... something from a text called the Aparanihaya Sutta, which is roughly translated as the, it's the seven conditions for social harmony in the Sangha.

[29:30]

And it's taken from the Pali Suttas. And you can find this in Bhikkhu Bodhi's anthology, The Buddha's Teachings on Social and Communal Harmony. So the sutra goes like this. I'm not gonna read all of it. It's not that long. Thus I have heard. On one occasion, the blessed one was teaching in Vesali. at the San Dada shrine. So Visali was one of those North Indian republics. It was the capital of the Lichavian state, which was part of the Vajian confederation. So the Buddha was teaching there, and a number of Lichavis approached the blessing.

[30:34]

paid homage to him, and sat down on one side. The Blessed One said, I will teach you, the Chavis, the principles of non-decline, meaning the principles of non-decline of your state. He wasn't teaching to monks here. He was teaching to lay people. Listen and attend closely. One, the Chavis, as long as the Vajjis assemble often and hold frequent assemblies, only growth is to be expected from them and not decline. So the first point is just that in order to make decisions, first people have to come together in a row. And there's more.

[31:39]

The second point talks about the character of those assemblies. Two, as long as the Vajjis assemble in harmony, adjourn in harmony, and conduct the affairs of the Vajjis in harmony, only growth is to be expected from them, not decline. In other words, I think as I... expressed in my last talk, there's a quality of civility and in these assemblies. That's the kind of harmony. They come together that way and they carry that through to the end so that when they leave from this assembly, they also hold this feeling of harmony. Third point, as long as the Vajjis do not decree anything that has not been decreed or abolish anything that has already been decreed, but under ancient Vajji principles, as they have been decreed, only growth is to be expected for them, not decline.

[33:03]

I think my understanding of this is It's not that the principles were carved in stone, but it means to give honor to precedents. Before you change something, or before you make a new decree, really consider what has already been in place. And I think as all of us have discovered, both on a small and on a grand scale, that when you change something, there are many unforeseen ramifications of that change. So I think the Buddha is asking the Vivijians to

[34:05]

really consider widely before you make any kind of change the course of your governance, the course of your action. The fourth point is as long as honor, respect, esteem, and venerate their elders and think they should be heeded, growth is expected for them and not decline. So I think the point is there that there's a set in our elders that we really ought to pay attention to. because there's some wisdom that abides in our elders, rather than impulsiveness that all of us are familiar with from our own youth.

[35:23]

And some of us are still young and still have that impulsiveness. And some of us, even who are old, carry that. characteristics in us. So it's like, learn from that wisdom. The fifth point, the fifth, six, and seven points are kind of interesting. The fifth point is, as long as women do not abduct women and girls from their families and force them to live with them, only growth is to be expected for them, not decline. So this suggests to me that perhaps this was a problem that they had. And I don't think we're done with this problem, whether you think of it in a literal term, in literal terms or in figurative terms, which is...

[36:34]

I think of as you could say, as long as the Vajjis do not oppress women, and you can accept aspects of our community, but respect them, that's a necessary condition for continued growth and not decline. The sixth point, which is interesting, coming from the Buddha, who is presumably generating a new religious tradition. But the point is, as long as the Vajjis honor, respect, esteem, and venerate their traditional shrines, both those within the city and those outside, and neglect the righteous...

[37:37]

as given and done to them in the past, only growth is to be expected for them and not decline. In other words, irrespective of what your spiritual religious beliefs may be, respect other forms of religion is an important principle here he's talking he's talking to the vajjians but he's also talking to the sangha of the sangha this is an important thing for us to recognize that there are different ways that we have within our sangha and within perhaps berkeley california united states world and the final point He's encouraging, as long as the Vajjis provide righteous protection, shelter, and guard for the Arhans, which is the enlightened beings, with the intention, how can those Arhans who have not yet come here come to our realm?

[39:03]

And how can those Aryans who have already come here dwell at ease? Only growth is to be expected for them and not decline. So in other words, how do we make our community a place that welcomes wisdom? And I would say, how do we make our community, how do we make our Sangha, the BCC Sangha, a place that welcomes enlightened activity, and wisdom of any kind from any sector and to support it and recognize it. That's part of our responsibility. The Chavis, as long as these seven principles of non-decline continue on the Vajjis and the Vajjis are established in them, only growth is to be expected for them and not decline.

[40:05]

And what I would suggest is certainly something like these principles apply to our community. And I would also suggest that I think we're doing pretty good in upholding these principles which we may not always completely be able to articulate but in the spirit the spirit of them is being upheld which is why our community is growing which is why we have new people coming to sit with us we have people from different communities coming to sit with us people of of different ages, different racial or ethnic backgrounds.

[41:08]

And that points to, I think, a kind of openness that we're trying to cultivate. And what I'd say is there's more work to do. So to keep these principles in mind, particularly as we're facing the kinds of challenges are there for us day to day lately in so many different areas, in society, in the health of the world, and in our own lives. So I'd like to open open for your comments and questions. And Blake will call on you.

[42:11]

And I'd like to encourage, if you can, ask a question. And also encourage you to be lean of expression so that we have time for people really to participate as much as they might want to. I will allow Blake to do the honors of calling on people, and I welcome your thoughts. Thank you, Hozon. Yes, I was thinking more like shows like tea with the Q&A today and all the Saturdays. First, Uh, Ten. My brother. My friend. What's up?

[43:12]

Hi, Ten. Hey, everybody. Good to see you. It's very good to see you as well. Um, I have... I was very moved by, um, the talk. Uh, thank you very much. I wanted to go back to something you said before you started the talk proper, that Soto Zen's flavor is to be... This is something that I deeply struggle with in myself and was wondering if you could advise a beginner's kindness practice. Well, of course, first you have to start by being kind. But actually, that may not be the case. It may be the thing to do, actually, if that doesn't work because we're so... We have so many patterns of kind of self-punishment. Maybe the way to begin, if that's the difficulty that one has, is to be kind to those around you.

[44:21]

And so I don't see, my feeling is we work from the inside out and from the outside in. And so if one doesn't seem a skillful approach, then try the other. But what I will see, I was so moved, you know, we had a meeting of Soto priests. We had a three meeting week before last. And just the kindness of everyone was so palpable. And what it brings forth in me is just a feeling of love and gratitude. And even if kind of the emotion and tears rise, and that's what I feel like I got from my teachers, and that's what I want to share with you.

[45:27]

So you can... You can borrow it from your teachers, apply it to those around you, and then it will slowly take root within you. Does that make sense? I really like the idea of kindness as a thing you can borrow. I don't know where that path is going to lead me, but that's something... that I have a lot of curiosity about right now. So thank you. The thing is, when you borrow something, which is a gift that's been given you, the responsibility is to pass that gift along. The gift of kindness and circulation. Thank you. Rondi and Charlie. Good morning, Hozan. I just have a technical question.

[46:29]

If we're communicating with you or other practice leaders, is the preferred channel of communication and should you or the practice leaders respond with the same channel, be it telephone or email or you're selecting? I will say that for me, because I'm stuck someplace about 10 years ago, the best mode of communicating, the most likely that I will see it in email. If you send me an email, I will receive it. I tend not to miss those. And then, you know, we can figure... You can even say, could you give me a call?

[47:31]

That's fine. It's like not if we start one thing. I will warn you all that I'm really not good at receiving texts. I haven't entered the text age. So emails are fine. Phone calls are fine. Thank you. Ryushin. Hozan Sensei, thank you very much for a very encouraging and open talk. My question is about one of the points that was about listening to the wisdom of the elders. And my question about that is, sometimes you don't hear wisdom as wisdom. And sometimes if it comes from a perspective that's so different from your own, perhaps within the community, is very hard to be open to or hear it as wisdom.

[48:34]

Do you have any advice or guidance for that? Well, first of all, none of these are absolute, of course. So it's not like all old people are really smart. And some of us say and do stupid things that are not wisdom. You have to discern. My experience, sometimes Sojin was pretty tough on me and said things that were to receive. And what I did come to as a practice was to take it in, whether it was painful or not, and to really believe there's something here that I can learn from.

[49:43]

And not to, so not to argue and not to push back, particularly in the moment, and then come back and we can, mix it up and that may be you know you may have that response to me or to someone else but I truly believed that there was something I could learn here and I would look for it I would step back you know literally in space and time and try to see what that was I really appreciate that response and have a lot of resonance with . I'm wondering if you think that could apply, too, when we hear different opinions or different experiences that people sangha have that come out of their own life that may seem to land in a difficult way, but are spoken with sincerity or their truth.

[50:56]

And could you say something about that? Yes. Whatever views people arrive at are arising, if you will, if you want to look at it in Buddhist doctrinal terms, it's arising from... their Alaya Vishniana. It's arising from the storehouse consciousness. It's arising from some experience that they've had. Now, of course, that experience then is filtered through, it's often filtered through the delusive mechanism of self. But there's something in that, what is important for me, for you, for all of us, is to... that it's not coming from nowhere that it's there's some basis for it and before again before arguing with it to to recognize that fact and respect that people have different experiences

[52:21]

Have we lost Andrea? Maybe so. Yes. I think she dropped off, which happens sometimes. We have a few more minutes. We have a few more minutes, and she'll be able to look at the video on YouTube at some point. I invite you all to come over and check out our YouTube channel. and subscribe. Questions? Answers? Questions or comments? Brief? Ross Blum. Good morning, Hozan-Sensei. Morning. You opened your talk today speaking about the resource of medical and therapeutic professionals here in Arsanga. if things come up during Zazed, especially during Sashin.

[53:29]

And I'm wondering if you could speak a little bit about the distinction between sitting and therapy practice, and how do we keep these two paths of understanding ourselves separate and respectful of each other, and how do we use both in order to be more wholesome beings? Well, I may be about to say something that's an oversimplification. I think that there's overlaps, of course, in the sense that both methodologies are aiming at harmonizing one's life. But the method of Buddhism and the method of Zen is to, what can I say, to deconstruct the delusive self and to recognize its impermanence

[54:54]

its emptiness. The methodology of therapy may call for a more immediate reconstruction of self. So in, you know, we have, I will say, I think that what we have in our own experience here in the West, is a kind of hybrid, more of a hybrid experience. Go to Japan or you go, you know, you go to a Buddhist country, you know, in Dokusan, you're not going to be talking about yourself. But we're sort of treading this middle ground. But it's, you know, process of really investigating the mechanism of self-making.

[56:02]

I think that's the mechanism of self-making is really where we get caught in Buddhist terms. So I think that's a difference, at least an emphasis. Does that make sense? It does. It is a hybrid here. There's a saying, you have to have a healthy self to forget the self. Yes. And so if people are experiencing a sort of about themselves, we encourage people to go into therapy practice. That's right. And that DocuSan or practice discussion isn't the venue at BCC to discuss the self in that context. And we have a policy about, you know, that therapists don't draw. Right. So we try to encourage people to, working with their teacher or their mentors, how to work in the appropriate venue to understand ourselves and thereby each other.

[57:10]

Yeah. So just something that occurs to me, which I've spoken about from my own direct experience, I came to, I returned to Zen practice when I actually really came here in the, not the first time in the 60s, but in the early 80s, I came to it directly out of therapy. And I went to my therapist one day and I said, you know, I don't know what I'm doing on this planet. I don't know what my purpose is here. And she said to me, which is fantastic, she said, a psychotherapeutic question. That's a spiritual question. So you should try to find a spiritual approach to answering that question. That immediately pointed me, I mean, I said, oh, okay, Buddhism again.

[58:17]

That was the direct path. So maybe that's a useful distinction. Yeah, that's how we met. Yeah, thank you. Maybe we'll take one more. Hi, thank you. This is sort of a question, but the way, the context that I heard you mention consulting with a doctor or a therapist in the sun this morning was as a consultation rather than as being in treatment. Right. But I think the distinction is important because, I mean, it's easier, I think, when you talk about a medical doctor. I have, you know, so she talked to one of the doctors about this pain in my knee. Is it something that I should sit through or should I not sit through myself? Or this symptom I have, does this mean I should...

[59:21]

I have a cold and I should take myself away. That kind of consultation. And I think in that context, we're not talking about being in therapy or being in treatment with a doctor, right? Yes. Clarification. That's exactly right. Yeah. We're not invoking our medical resources to be a doctor to you in some wider sense. It's like somebody may need to consult and say, okay, you should really step aside. You should go see a doctor. And the same thing with therapists. You know, you're having a psychological emergency. I mean, one of the things that it happened just before Mary's talk that week, we had a priest meeting and Hondo brought an article to reflect on about a terrible experience and a pattern of experiences that people were having in certain kinds of retreat formats, which was not Zen, of a kind of mental deconstruction or decompensation from like 18 hours of meditation a day.

[60:45]

And they were not really nobody was taking for their state of being. But I will say that we don't, you know, people have mental problems, but the form of our seshin, which is wonderful, is we do a lot of work, but we also work, we eat, we walk, we cook and serve. It's like really a model of our whole life. And if you bring an integral model of your whole life as practice, I think you're less likely to have those decompensations. Laurie was pointing out, Sojin had said that...

[61:50]

reflecting on his early days at San Francisco, once they instituted a work period, there were many fewer psychological difficulties because it's a kind of more normal and physical activity than the activity of just sitting cross-legged. So yes, to get back to your point, these resources are available as consultation for the moment, not as resources for an ongoing medical or therapeutic relationship.

[62:33]

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