Good morning, everyone, and welcome to BZC's online Saturday program. Today, we're in Sashin to close the aspects of practice period. Today's speaker is Ryushin. And we'll begin with the opening chant. An unsurpassed, penetrating and perfect Dharma. Is rarely met with the hundred thousand million kalpas, having it to see and listen to, to remember and accept. I vow to taste the truth of the Tadakada's words. Good morning, everyone. As today's... Sashin to close the end of our six week aspects of practice period led by the senior students this year.

[01:10]

We've all been very moved to have such a steady practice with each other. There were almost lined up today for the Sashin and the attendance has been outstanding. So we've all been very encouraged and by each other and encouraging to each other. Thank you very much for that. We've been studying the Gakudo Yojinshu this practice period. Guidelines for studying the way. And I think it's helpful to place where this piece of writing was in Dogen's career to have some sense of how to work with it and to interpret it. This writing was probably written in about 1234. was all of 34 years old. We also know that not, we don't know that all of this writing was written at that time, but it was initiated then, and at least part of it was.

[02:15]

He was about to start his first temple. He'd come back 1227. And had been practicing at his home temple and realized that he wasn't really going to be able to express the Dharma as he understood it. So he went off to start his own temple. He'd already written his foundational texts at that point in time. He'd written Zangi, Bendowa. Those are the texts about Zazen. and about the wholehearted approach of the complete devotion of practicing zazen. Swimanki, which were early conversations with one of his most earnest students. So these were his foundational texts. These are the texts that put down what his initial experience and understanding was. He hadn't really done much teaching. He hadn't done much teaching at all, but he was getting ready to start his own temple.

[03:17]

So he was thinking through how he made his own awakening, how he came to understand the way, and trying to put down in a concrete form what that was. I think it's important to know that his teachings would mature over the next 25 years and become more nuanced than what this teaching is. of this writing, like a lot of Dogen's early writings, was evangelical. There was a certitude and an energy behind it, the enthusiasm of a convert and a true believer who'd been searching for almost, and he had his opinions. His opinions weren't always easy to listen to, but we should remember that he was young and certain, but not yet a mature human. He was a learning teacher. So he was writing this for his encouragement about attitude and a spirit of practice, as well as a distillation of how he found his own great insight and opening into practice.

[04:30]

I think it's also important to notice this is how Dogen found his way. It's the way the young Japanese aristocrat who had lost his parents early in his life and had been orphaned and found his way into early monastic practice at a time when the way one entered practice was to go to a monastery to travel and find a great teacher. This was Dogen's way. It's not necessarily our way, but it still is wise and it has some important guideposts or pillars. to entering the Buddha way through Zen. And that's why we studied it. That will continue probably to be a touchstone. It's been a lot of fun to go back through this text for maybe the third or fourth time in my short Zen life. So another aspect of Dogen's exploration and his teaching had a question.

[05:41]

I think we all have questions when we come to practice. Something we wanna know, something's looking for an answer. We're searching for something when we come to practice. And Dogen was also. He had practiced monastery in Japan and the heart of the teaching there is the Lotus Sutra. And a foundational understanding from that school is that we're already inherently enlightened, where enlightenment is just right there. It's part of our nature. It's accessible to us. His question was, why do you need to practice? That was his question. And he found his answer when he went and met Ryu Jing. What's our question? So we've tried to be encouraging in this practice period for you to question for yourself. As Master Dogen outlines in each of the sections of the Gakudō Yōjinshu, what's your own way-seeking mind?

[06:48]

What's your own call to wake up? What is it to apply yourself without seeking to gain anything or to gather any knowledge and in the usual ways, but to sincerely open to practice? What is the effort that's not about gaining for yourself? What is the true conversation with the teacher or teachers? Have you experienced that? Did you reach out to the various practice leaders you've heard or spoken with to engage in and look at the way through the relationship? What is a teacher? What is a true teacher? And what is Dharma friendship? And in recognizing it, how do you apply it? seeking to free yourself from your usual ways of seeking or thinking to wholeheartedly just throwing yourself into the house of Buddha.

[07:50]

Although Dogen speaks of Zen, he didn't actually mean a sect. In fact, he never really thought of a particular lineage of Zen. He was expressing his understanding of a deep, intimacy and relationship with all things. That's what, that's what Dogen understood this to be. That's to experience. So Dogen is not really, excuse me, Zen is not really a thing. It's more like a way of experiencing the world, of being in relationship with everything. What gets in your way? What's your inspiration? Can you feel the turning of the Dharma flower, no matter what your state of mind, settled or unsettled? Friendly or unfriendly? Tired or energetic?

[08:54]

Caught or free? And in various ways he encourages to dig deep and also to float freely, always with a sincere effort to wake up. In this practice period, probably you've had some insight or understanding or been annoyed, confused, or uncomfortable. That's very good. The Dharma flower is turning. It's most important to keep your questions alive, and I'd really encourage you to think about them for a moment now. We've had a wonderful time together, at least... Feels like it's been deep and there's been lots of good conversations and Q&As. Although the six weeks of this kind of study together will end today. Keep going. Keep the question in your mind.

[09:56]

Keep it in your heart. Plant it in your. Don't stop. Today, I'm going to. touch on the 10th section of Gakudoyo Jinshu. And I would kind of land on the heavier foot of the two directions in which he points in this, on the teacher. The title of this is variously translated as Hitting the Mark Directly. That's caused Tanahashi and Editha's poetic buildup to the activities of sincere monks. Okamura Roshi says, settling down right here. I see that as his pointing to the lifelong sincere endeavor, that this is all just as he says at the beginnings of his no toys, sashims, you, the white wall, and Buddha.

[11:12]

The other title is the direct realization of the way. And these are all the elements and the encouragement right here. So Dogen's final prescription for us and the summary for lifelong learning for living life as you are right now is to realize things are needed. training with and listening to the Dharma of a true teacher and to do Sazen single-mindedly. So what is this teacher? And I'm leaning a little heavily on this question in this section because I think it's been an active question for some people now. Last year, our founding teacher has died and a long, long-standing second teacher Second teacher here has stepped up to become our abbot. It's been a time period of adjustment and people have a question about who the teacher is.

[12:21]

And Dogen's really inviting us to say, that's pretty darn important. So think about that. Think about what that means to you. I think Dogen Zenji's journey seems kind of mythical. And his teacher, his teacher, Herok figures to us in Zen. And the stories about their meeting and Dogen's sudden enlightenment seems something otherworldly. They're the giants of old in a certain kind of way. But he was a human being like all human beings. He was a product of his time and his circumstances like we are. And he had his journey and each of us has our own. In Dogen's journey, He was a boy of six when his mother died, and he saw the incense. The story goes he saw the incense rise from above his head and had an understanding of the impermanence of life.

[13:24]

He went off to his uncle's monastery when he was three and then sought teaching from the person who was purported to be the greatest Rinzai master in Japan, Eizen. Eizen died not. He got there. It's not even certain that he met, but he met another monk named Miozan and studied with him in Japan. And then they went together to China. When he got to China, he met many people who made an impression on him. And some of those stories are handed down both in his diary of his experiences and in the Tenzo Kyokun when he recounts a couple of really pivotal experiences. He had with ordinary Zen students who'd had a long time of practice, who were embodying a way of being in their lives that really... They made an impression, opened gates of understanding by the way in which they collected mushrooms and made a long journey back in the same evening in order to cook the morning meal or...

[14:37]

as old men were harvesting under the sun because they saw that as part of their duty to their communities. All of these count as teachings. All of these count as teachers. So when he came to Tiantong, the monastery of Ryujin, there was recognition. He knew what he was looking for and he saw it. Teacher and student met each other. Ryujin, of course, had been around the block. He'd had trained many monks, and so he could see the sincerity, the effort, and the ripeness in Dogen's face. And Dogen was right there for it. So I want to say I don't think that that meeting could have happened and he could have had this amazing experience with Ryujin if there hadn't been all the other experiences before that. Maybe, but I'm not so sure.

[15:39]

I think that's part of Dogen's teaching, and I think it's basic Buddhism, too, that all of the causes and conditions and effects of our life bring us to this moment. It's for us to apply the effort. Suzuki Roshi says the most important ingredient in waking up is the sincere effort of the student. And Dogen applied himself. He kept looking for the open door, but the doors opened because of his sincere effort. So that's true. That's true for us too. I think when we look for a teacher, we look for someone or we recognize in something, something we already know within ourselves. Finding a teacher who embodies the teaching to the best that we already see. already understand it was the final resolution of Doga's practice.

[16:41]

It was the answer to his question. He understood something he had before, something subtle, something hard to describe. I think we all see it. We all recognize it when we see it. And we can open to it to the extent that we are ready for it. In my own experience, I had come to Berkeley Zen Center. And I really appreciated the practice here. I appreciated it from the day I walked in the door. And I practiced very sincerely. Sahara, I love the rituals. I love the way the container of the practice held the practice and ritual and kind of structural... structured ritual or ritualized structure was everywhere in the daily routine. And I came back to Berkeley Zen Center and I did this, but I have to say, I felt like there was something that wasn't complete for me.

[17:47]

And then I went, as I did in those days, I went to San Shinji, which is a very humble little place in Bloomington, Indiana, where Shohaka Okamura has his temple. The style of practice there has almost no ritual. And the forms are very simple. There's no service. There's no dokusan, really. You have to twist Roshi's arm in order to have that opportunity. You just sit zazen. But there was way we had our meals together, moved in the zendu in a very simple, humble, quiet way. that I understood what Sojin was doing here. It just opened the door entirely to me. It's hard to describe, but I could feel it. So that's kind of how we find our way, I think, our true teaching. In little ways, in unexpected ways, in individual relationship, and with our eyes and heart open.

[18:57]

Gemara said of his own teacher that when he read his book, The Self, he decided, I want to live like this man. He just, there was something there he could feel. You see something that mirrors your aspiration. Stay close. Open yourself to it and keep following. I think there's a term that some of us talked about this practice period. It's one that Linda Ruth Cutts handed to me during one of the times I was feeling restless about who my teacher was. She said to me, what about a good enough teacher? She was using D.W. Winnicott's phrase from a good enough mother, someone who provides enough security, someone who provides enough Love and support in the right time is what I think the child psychologist was talking about.

[20:03]

What I came to understand that to be is someone who embodies the practice and can see the Buddha in me well enough, and I can see the Buddha in them well enough. Dogen might say it's someone who matches your purity to just practice out of devotion and completely. Suzuki Roshi would say as much and possibly, follow your inner voice. Reject useless things. If your practice is pure enough, you will be supported by Buddha. Worry who will support you or what will happen to you. Completely devote yourself and listen to your inner voice. The measure of a student is her sincerity. That means that she wants to practice from the bottom of her heart. To have that spirit is the most important thing. So Dogen was so sincere that he could not accept other teachers who were not as sincere as he was.

[21:12]

A teacher can appear in many forms. Due in the morning light. In the field. Good Dharma friends. Old growth. We have a lot of that here at Berkeley Zen Center. We're so lucky. Experienced teachers. In my own path, at one point, I saw many different people at the same time bringing. That was so helpful. I learned so much. I learned so much about how my mind worked. By how their minds worked. Kobincino says, because we cannot find our true selves, we have to do it with someone who is able to accept our vow. I think good Dharma friends do that. We accept each other's vow. We connect with each other in that place. Dogen says,

[22:23]

There are two considerations in determining how to settle your mind. One is visiting a teacher and listening to the Dharma. The other is putting all of your energy into Zazen. The teacher and the Dharma are like the roadmap. Okamura Roshi says, we have to study in order to know where we're going. The Dharma that we listen to from our teachers or reading books, let us know what we're doing. how we're going. It's like a map before you travel. With the map, you might not know how to orient yourself. You get caught by some great experience you think is so special that you spend years trying to recreate it. Or you feel discouraged by the repetitions of your confused mind, the boredom, the painful posture, hating, deluded people all around you that won't go away. The teacher is like the picture, the picture of where you're going.

[23:30]

You can feel it in, in my case, his sincerity. You can feel it in his humility. The teaching embodied. And better yet, if you're fortunate enough to work with a teacher as powerful as someone like Sojin, it's a simulation. You can interact with it. You can try out different scenarios of how your mind works without even, and you can see yourself reflected. Where am I going to tell this story? Dogen says that allow your mind to work freely. So in these two components that he's talking about, to practice with the teacher and listen to the Dharma and to practice Sazen, somewhat surprisingly, you might think he says, well, it's when you're working with your, you allow your mind to go.

[24:42]

What he's really meaning is you let go of your own ideas about things and your own thoughts, and you broaden your mind to observe more completely. He says, practice the way of your teacher. Do what your teacher does. Watch how she fluffs her zabutan or hands you a cup, arranges his robes or places items on the altar. Whether it's a teacher, your teacher, the teacher or a teacher. Respect whose practice speaks to you. Watch very closely. Pay attention. In my experience, see what surprises you, what confuses you, what challenges you or delights you and moves you. There's something there in your usual way, in the usual way of thinking about things that's interesting, that's different from what's been available to you before.

[25:53]

Or if you're not convinced, at least watch. Maybe the teacher does these things and you go, what? I don't agree with that. Or I don't get that. Watch. See what's happening. Watch very closely. One of my early encounters that way with Sojin was... I had been here a few years, I guess. I had some kind of position where I felt comfortable coming into his office to ask him questions or to say something after a lecture to him anyway. And whatever I said, whatever opinion or idea I had, he looked at me and he said, I don't think that way. Like, I don't get, you know, I don't get what you're saying or, you know, don't even go there. I don't even go there. That's been such a helpful phrase for me. When I am caught on something, when I feel really strongly about something or it's not fitting in a situation, I don't think that way.

[27:06]

What does that mean? What way do you think? I was only used to thinking the way I thought, and I didn't think there was any other way to think. What do you know? That was a big wake-up. Another is to watch how a teacher is or someone you respect is with other people. Another early story for me was in the Zendo. I'd been around long enough to have a little bit of sense of time that the person in the front seat is answering a question in a very specific way to the person who's there. And if you practice in a community for a while, you kind of get how different people's minds work or the questions they tend to answer, the places that they get a little stuck maybe. Who struck me as being really in some ways very self-effacing and had a hard time stepping forward.

[28:08]

Asked about what to do with anger when it came up. And I guess that anger had been an issue for her. I didn't know that and wouldn't have guessed that. But I don't think that many people in the Zendo would have. And it's like Sojin rose up. It felt this way to me. His energy rose up and he said, be the anger to her. And I was like, oh my God. Oh, anger is so potent. It's so dangerous. How could you possibly suggest that to anyone? But over time, I came to understand how important it is to allow oneself to totally experience whatever their experience is. If it feels so uncomfortable. And one of my great turnings in practice is allowing myself to be the anxiety when anxiety was so overpowering.

[29:12]

One time I didn't feel like I could stay in my skin. How did I notice? All these little things, all these experiences, all these things we notice, they influence us. When we keep an open question, it's there in the back of our mind working. Of Zazen, so Dogen says, The Dogen says in this section that listen to your teacher and the Dharma with a discriminating mind, but the practice of Zazen uses practice as one uses one's right and left hands. So he says, paraphrasing Dogen, Explore your discriminating mind in the mirror of your teacher or someone who's trustworthy and practice.

[30:21]

Let go of your discriminating mind when you sit. That is your thinking and analyzing, conceptualizing mind that you're actively using in the container of relatedness and intimacy with a valued dark friend or teacher. Let go of that and in the experience of the world through Zazen. It's like working with the Dharma and your teacher prepares you to orient to your Zazen. It prepares you to orient in your Zazen. So you have some sense of what this sitting is and you have some inspiration to be able to do that. through the long periods of aching knees and boredom and questions. And it's a beautiful day. Why are we here spending our time in a room together anyway?

[31:27]

No, it prepares you for that to open to you. There are many ways to talk about Zazen, of course, and all of them are incomplete. Zazen is only an experience. But here Dogen is referring to the great insight that practice and enlightenment are one. What does that mean exactly? It's again something I have found in words and this practice period has really helped me. And what I've really enjoyed thinking about is this phrase that was in Section 7 about turning the Dharma flower. Turning the Dharma flower. And when the Dharma is large, when the Dharma is small, the self is large. What is that turning of the Dharma wheel, the Dharma flower?

[32:31]

And I don't know this. I didn't find a reference to it, but I can't help but think of the first transmissions of Muni Buddha to Makakashapa, where the world-honored one is sitting in the teaching seat, and he picks up a flower and holds it up to the sangha with a twinkle in his eye. And his dharma-air-to-be... has a look of recognition in his eye back, that they both understood the point that all things are Buddha nature in that moment. And that turning of the flower, I think, points us to the idea here that no matter what state of mind we're in, the Dharma is always functioning. The Dharma is always, you might... You might say it's in the background and sometimes it's in the foreground.

[33:36]

But it's always a part of our existence functioning. Our lives are part of an ongoing activity that is not separate from anything else. And we are a part of a part of Buddha activity. See how hard it is for me to articulate this. When the self is large, that means I've got a lot going on, and I'm not necessarily as open and driven by the larger world. I've got my usual order predominantly on. And when the Dharma is large and I'm small, The Dharma is obstructing me. It's Okamura's translation. It's another word that points to my usual ways of thinking.

[34:39]

Sojin doesn't think like that. My usual ways of thinking are in the background. And the activity of the Dharma in my experience and my presence and my being are much larger. It's backward from the way I used to. But for right now, this is how I'm working with it. And I find that it's helpful. So what that means to me is that no matter what's happening, the Dharma is available and acting in my life. And I may have the moment. I have... This is a place where I have an immediate flair of, how dare they? I had this place on the road and it belongs to me. And the Dharma is in the background somewhere. And it doesn't take too long usually for me to go, oh, I'm just glad we're all safe.

[35:45]

Or I'm just, that's a little bit too much actually. I'm just here in the car driving. I'm just going to stay in my lane. I'm just going to play my role here. I'm just going to place. And reactivity or emotionality backs away. That's always that. That functioning is always present to us. Let me see if I want to say something else here. Yeah. When our small-minded self is big, we can seem to obscure the Dharma. We can seem to miss it, but actually it's always... You might say it's behind us, but actually it's within us. And that's the intention to practice.

[36:48]

And I'd... say it's like once we've been caught by the Dharma, once you've become a really sincere practitioner, you can't ever accept your really escape its activity. I remember having that experience, and I think some people here have too at one point, where you realize, geez, I can't get away with anything anymore. It's almost like the Dharma is always looking over your shoulder. So I used to think of enlightenment as being a direction. It was always headed towards enlightenment. Maybe I might get close enough that I'd have glimpses of it now and again. But I don't think it's like that. I don't think Dogen thought it was like that. Enlightenment's always here. The flower is turning and being turned.

[37:49]

It's like our life is like this. Sometimes we're caught. Sometimes we're free. Sometimes we're hindered. Sometimes we're hindering. We don't stay anywhere because we're always in function and relationship with the Dharma. And I wanted to share with you this image, but I couldn't find it online. They used to make tops that had swirls of color, like they were two-tone color, that were very contrasting. On some parts of the top, it was painted or colored with a large amount of the color and a little bit on the other side, and the proportions would change. And then you'd twirl it, and it would all twirl into one color. And as it would slow down again, you could see which they separated. I think it's like this. I think that's what Dogen's teaching here, is that it's all there all the time, always swirling in activity.

[38:50]

And boy, isn't it a relief to know that. Just keep sincerely opening your heart to practice. And when we can feel like sometimes it's hard. I wanted to add this to sometimes it's hard and you get caught. Dig deeper. Dig deeper. When you don't know what to say. out of your experience, dig deeper. One time I was fortunate enough to have Doka-san with Okamura Roshi. He didn't like to do that with students very often, but you could twist his arm, especially if he came a long way. And so I sat with him and I brought him some... some mishmash of my personal stuckiness in the midst of a Dharma question.

[39:53]

And he received it, and he thought for a little while, and he said, you know, I have to say, I don't really have an experience like that. You know, a woman of my, an American woman of my age and my background, a Japanese man, decade and a half older. My story, he took my question. It's like he took it and he held it. And then he talked about an experience in his own life that was the best that he could relate to it. And I didn't really understand the relationship. I didn't make any connection with those words in a helpful way. But I felt like in that space together, he held the question with me. He held it out of the depth and quietude of his zazen.

[40:56]

And it came back to me when it came back to me. It changed. It wasn't the same kind of difficult question anymore. It just was my life. It's totally different. I think that's part of how we dig a little deeper. So Dugan also says, moving on in this section, he says, anyone who sincerely wants to practice can. And he specifically says, it doesn't matter what your body's like. It doesn't matter if you're strong or weak. It doesn't matter if you can sit up all night. It doesn't matter if you're... Body hurts like crazy and you need to lie down. It doesn't matter. Anyone can practice Sazen. What matters is the sincerity of your effort and your continuous practice.

[41:58]

Whatever body and mind you have, you can enter the way throughout. After all, the body's all you've got. Dogen says, don't even try to change it. And I say, trust it. This is my experience, my experience working with many people who have bodies that trouble them. Learn from it. Trust it. Our bodies can teach us reality more completely than anything else can. It knows your reality better than you do. It will tell you what long before you know it. Trust your body. Practice with your body. Meet it where it is and continue to practice. And I think one of the most beautiful Dharma talks I ever, ever heard was watching our Dharma sister, Frappier, walk across the Zendo as Sojin's Jisha.

[43:05]

Her dystonia was so bad. Her body control... was always tenuous. The amount of spasticity and sudden uncontrolled deformity from her neurologic abnormalities was profound. And yet somehow, she walked across the Zendel, picked up his bowls, and followed him out after lecture. That's someone who knew how to really practice Sazen. And on a very ordinary day-to-day way, I will always be grateful to Jed for doing what was so difficult for him with his polio, post-polio syndrome, and with his cancer eventually. He was coming to the center at 5.40 in the morning. Sometimes he'd fall asleep. Couldn't get up and walk in him.

[44:07]

But he was always here. And he was always completely here to the best of his ability. So Dogen says, don't try to change a thing. Just completely show up and follow the spirit and example that moves you. That's the teacher's way. Who is that teacher? Well, actually, it's what's already inside of us. It's already what's inside of you. knows it's you who's taking the path of Zen. So this just it or just right here or dropping away body and mind, this is called hitting the mark. It's you, the white wall, and Buddha. To conclude, I'd like to tell a story literally about hitting the mark and then read a closing statement by Coben Chino.

[45:10]

who I had the great fortune to spend a little bit of time around, and so I really felt his practice. Actually, the very simple interactions of watching his daughter crawl over him as he fell asleep during a Dharma conversation with us. So Koban was a master of Japanese archery, Kyodo. This is a famous story story. So one time, he was down on the Monterey Coast. Coben, I should just place him for people who don't know the name. Coben Chino was a really gifted teacher, and he was trained at Aheji, where he was the head of practice there for a while, and well-known to hold and care for very complicated ceremonies, among other things. He was invited to come to Tassajara early on to help start the ritual practice there.

[46:15]

So that was Tassajara who was helping. And he went to practice his Zen archery or have a little contest with someone. And they were somewhere on the cliffs of that part of the beautiful coastline. And they've got the targets set up. The person he was doing this with comes and he masterfully takes his bow and arrow and lifts it up and pulls it back. Boom, and it goes right to the center of the target. And so Coburn comes up and he had very dynamic energy. He picks up his bow and his arrow. And he pulls it back, and then he turns 90 degrees, and he shoots it out into the middle of the ocean.

[47:17]

Bullseye, he said. Of course, he could have hit the bullseye, but that was his point. The bullseye is everywhere. It's everywhere. It's right here, and it's right now. So let me leave. With his words, how to go with your truer self is to deeply bow to yourself and ask, please let me know myself. Because we cannot do it alone, we have to do it with someone who is able to accept our love. Letting such an occasion occur is what supreme awakening is. Practicing with someone who accepts our vow and letting such an occasion occur is what supreme awakening is. It's not your creation. Just admire the law and be with it.

[48:21]

And that place is the place to meet your teacher. It doesn't need to be some special kind of place. Where you're a little bit mindful about yourself, you can create an opportunity between your children and yourself. between your parents and yourself opportunity to wake up. So thank you very much for your attention. And I think there's a little bit of time and I hope that you'll have your own responses, thoughts about that have come to you for the practice period. Things that you might want to share or have a conversation about here and now. So turn it over to Mary Beth. Okay, thank you. It's time now for Q&A. You can raise your digital hand to ask a question, or you can send me something in the chat box.

[49:30]

Sue Osher, would you unmute yourself, please, and ask a question? Thank you. Ryushin. Hi, Sue. Thank you. Just deep gratitude. You hit the mark. I so needed to hear your talk. It was wonderful. Tell me about forgetting the vow, forgetting that it's even possible to hit the ground. How do we hold down? Just be quiet and listen. Let the dialogue calm down. and trust yourself soon.

[50:51]

Thank you for your trust. What's your experience been like during practice period? Anyone? Clay. Clay Taylor, can you put your, yes, and unmute yourself and ask your question or make your comment? Yeah. As Andrew, you know, for sure, and others do, I've been practicing out in Colorado for 17 years. with different teachers in a different tradition. And I've spent a lot of time coming back to Berkeley Zen Center this year because Zoom was available.

[51:59]

And one of my questions is how to integrate my practice of Koan way with my base practice of Soto Zen and Shikantaza. And this practice period, I got to hear from you all, the senior students so much. Didn't get to attend everything, but it was just so lively and interesting to hear you all talking about the way and guidelines for studying the way and Dogen. So I just wanted to express my appreciation to everybody for that. And I've been kind of tossing back and forth what... Meditation with koans is like versus Shikantaza, the two different methods in Zen practice. This morning, what came to me was that just sitting in Shikantaza is like being suspended in emptiness.

[53:05]

And it was just a very nice sense of support and immersion and connection with BZC. Thank you very much. Thank you for your comments, Clay. It's been really wonderful to see you. I felt very supported by your presence. Well, almost everyone stuck it out through the whole talk. There must have been something in there that was worthwhile or interesting. Hey, Ko, would you like to unmute yourself and ask your question? Yes, thank you, Yushin. And I would say there was something worthwhile indeed. What I would say, what I picked up was, well, my experience has been difficult because of many scheduling items and, you know, a lot of different things here as a resident, but that it is always present, whether large units,

[54:15]

or small relative to my mind or the Dharma, to hear you state that and to clarify that, it's really very simple and extremely, in a sense to me, logical. And so, but it doesn't get, after I think a certain amount of commitment in my experience, but it doesn't get so small that it... Neither my mind nor the Dharma abandoned me, however far I've gone in either direction. And I thank you for stating it so simply and helping me to live with that. So thank you for that. Yeah, you're welcome. You know, it's very reliable. We don't start having all the problems. We don't stop having all the problems of being a human being until we're dead. So it's very reliable that we'll always have a mind that can be unruly at times. And it's also very reliable that we are always in the way, meaning in the way, capital W-A-Y, we're always in the way.

[55:24]

Both of those things you can totally count on. So there's some relief in that. Yes, thank you very much. Lori Sanaki, would you please unmute yourself and ask your question? Hi. Thank you so much. I didn't raise my hand initially because this isn't really a question, but just a communing. I also had a similar experience. I don't remember Sojin's words, but that feeling of, oh, don't go there. I think it would... when we were trying to do a position, I mean, what I connected with, you know, you're trying to do a position here and you're trying to get something done. And through that process, you get into various mind states that, you know, and then you'd go in and try to talk to him and say, oh, don't go there. It just, and it's helpful because you could almost, we almost physically put a barrier there, like to going there.

[56:27]

There was some way that him saying that just, cut it off, you know? And I really, I hadn't thought about that in a long time. So I appreciate your story and it really brought it back. Thank you. And thank you for your time. Thank you, Lori. It really is like being set free or having the door open and letting a fresh breeze in. Yeah. With your usual ways of thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Go down this other road, you know, just, just, just don't even, it's not right or wrong. I mean, just don't even think about that. Just go this other way, you know? Yeah. Anyway, thank you. Kabir, would you please unmute yourself and ask your question? Good morning. Thank you for your talk. Nothing special. Outstanding. Thank you. Yoni Ackerman, would you please unmute yourself and ask your question?

[57:31]

I'm not entirely sure I have a fully formed question, but something that was the idea of sincerity. I guess maybe I want to ask our dedication and sincerity the same thing. And Along those things, who is it? How do we judge our own sincerity? Those are good questions. I think of sincerity as more of an emotional, attitudinal state. something that comes from deep within, that matters greatly, a kind of spring of yourself.

[58:41]

Whereas a dedication, that can be more superficial, can be more on the surface of things. Yeah, I'm going to take care of things. It's more perfunctory, but the sincerity, Your sensitivity is something that comes from a really deep place of importance to you. And how do you measure it? You can't measure it. You just know it. You just know what really matters and if you're really offering yourself or if you're holding back or you're really wishing you were doing something else. Is a person who's living a lay life less sincere than a person who's living a monastic life? Absolutely not. A monastic life could look really good. They're all dressed up in their robes.

[59:44]

But maybe they're just looking for an easy place to live and some food. And there are all kinds of reasons to wind up in a monastery. What matters is your relationship to practice, how much it matters, and how much you're willing to open yourself to it. Carol Paul, would you please unmute yourself and ask your question? Thank you for your talk, Ryushin. That was an interesting statement that... Linda Ruth said to you, what about a good enough teacher? And that was so fascinating. I mean, was it sort of an indication, what Dogen said, you know, just stop. Don't hit the dusty road. Just settle down. And teachers change, you know, I think.

[60:53]

I don't know if you believe that a student might need something one time and find that teacher for that and their own changes. Maybe another teacher is better for them. Can you expand a little bit on that? Yeah, I will. First, I really agree with you. I think a really outstanding teacher, you know, by external standards might not be for someone. It might not be the right person all the time. I certainly have seen that happen in my life here at Berkeley Zen Center. Someone who was a good teacher, where Sojin was the right teacher for them at one point in time, ceased to be so at another point in their personal and practice. What I think Linda Ruth was pointing at, and what I came to is... Not everyone has a relationship or finds a relationship with a teacher where they're deeply understood.

[61:59]

A great personal affinity. But you can feel a great Dharma affinity. You can feel a deep way of connecting with the person's practice. You can feel like they see your practice and that they... They understand your vow. They recognize your effort and your sincerity, your desire to practice. And you can see how the practice manifests in them. But you may not necessarily harmonize or resonate completely. Good enough teacher. And that's what she was pointing at. And it's nice when you have all of it. but you don't always have all of it. And sometimes you have more of it or less of it with the same person, right? Thank you. Very helpful. Yeah, you're welcome. Our last question, Mike, please ask your question.

[63:03]

So I just want to say first, Jerush, and thank you for holding the Dharma gate open for all of us. It's been an incredibly profound and deepening time. And, um, Resonating with so many things that you said, and I found it challenging. And I'm going to live with a lot of the phrases, but I wanted to follow on to the question of sincerity. And I just had such a beautiful connection when you're talking about sincerity with how much more sincerity I've grown over the course of my practice and my ability to be sincere. And it almost feels like I ask you to talk about, if you could, how the choice to practice and remain with yourself is an investment in deepening our own sincerity and sincerity in ourselves and our practice. Just to throw it back, and maybe it doesn't resonate with you. No, thank you very much for that question. It's kind of an effable thing. It's like it feeds on itself.

[64:06]

I think the most important thing in your life, is really where you offer yourself the most completely. You open yourself and offer yourself. That sincerity is a genuine offering without an expectation. I think that that's part of it. When we're really sincere, we're so drawn to do what it is that we're doing out of a deep wish. yearning aspiration kind of whatever word resonates with you without um out of that deep feeling maybe that's an easy way to say it out of some deep feeling you're just it's like a magnetic pull and you just want to offer yourself up to it you know we're human of course the what we want kind of seeks into so did you notice me did i do a good job but nevertheless that stuff seeps in

[65:11]

But really what underlies it all, what's the strongest part of that is just that it matters so much to me to be here. Thank you so much for that question. I think probably many other people on the screen had a similar question. Things are numberless. I vow. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha is unsurpassable. I vow to become it.

[66:07]

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